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Topic: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!
Replies: 22   Last Post: Nov 20, 2020, 10:03 PM by: allinallorangeallthetime52®
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Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[3]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 11:54 AM
 

I have been on both sides of the fence "guestimating" what our coaching staff would do in the event we were up big on FSU Saturday. Would they leave Trevor in to run the offense so he gets game reps after missing three weeks? Or let's say, the run game is working and we get TD's and the defense or ST provides scores or short fields and the offense doesn't have to do much. Would our coaching staff leave him in?

On one hand: he needs real game speed reps to ready him for what's down the road. On the other hand Dabo doesn't like rubbing opponents nose in it. Plus, our staff(I like it) likes to get kids who have worked hard all week in the game. And last, respect for FSU and what they are capable of may come into play, you think?

If you are FSU and the above scenario were to play out - I don't see how you could be upset if Trevor was to stay in the game? Clemson is on trek to play for a championship and our starting QB hasn't played in nearly a month. If we throw it some when we are in control of the game it's just to get timing with WR's. It's not disrespect!

Just wondering how you think our staff would play it in the event we were capable and lucky enough to get control of the game over FSU relatively early?


Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[3]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 12:15 PM
 

I'm not convinced we will run away with this game early, but if we did then Trevor would have to be playing well.

If he is playing well, then the "leave him in to knock the rust off" concept isn't really needed.

I don't expect our staff to respond any different in this game than they have in any other game.

If TL is in, he will run the full offense.

If the game becomes a blowout early, TL will likely stay in through 1 series in the 3rd quarter and then we will move to other players.

I think as a 3rd year player that TL is past the point of playing in a blowout game just to get reps for later. He isn't going to see anything new and he can get all of the throws and work he needs moving forward in other games to be ready for the bigger games you are thinking of.


Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[3]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 12:41 PM
 

TigersO said:

I'm not convinced we will run away with this game early, but if we did then Trevor would have to be playing well.

If he is playing well, then the "leave him in to knock the rust off" concept isn't really needed.

I don't expect our staff to respond any different in this game than they have in any other game.

If TL is in, he will run the full offense.

If the game becomes a blowout early, TL will likely stay in through 1 series in the 3rd quarter and then we will move to other players.

I think as a 3rd year player that TL is past the point of playing in a blowout game just to get reps for later. He isn't going to see anything new and he can get all of the throws and work he needs moving forward in other games to be ready for the bigger games you are thinking of.




TigersO appreciate the response! What if we are ahead early "not because of TL"? I am not one to think they are concerned with his Heisman numbers; but I do think practice is different than game reps. 3 year player - true. But, Pitt for example, runs nothing but man on the outside. They do that against everybody and dare you to be accurate passing the ball! They are routinely in the top 4 in sacks in the nation; at one point this season they were 1st. Seeing the blitz and getting hit(he won't in practice) might be worth seeing real time.
You are probably right; I just think because as someone else said! No guarantee there will be more games the staff may decide to get it in now. DJ hopefully has at least 2 full years or more in a "post covid" college football scene.
We'll see! Will this be FSU's bowl game? Is that your line of thought on why it wouldn't be a one sided affair? FSU has a ton of talent and pride - but are young! Clemson is coming off a loss itself and won't just come out "willy-nilly"! I expect a hungry Tigers team to come out and play Clemson(not FSU). Clemson will come out and try to be the best at what Clemson does regardless of who is out there for the opponent(could be FSU, Liberty, SCAR, Bama, O-Cry-O St.etc.) We typically respond well after a loss and this loss comes after a bye - so I think it will get away from the crimi-noles early.

End of the day - I just want a Tigers win and everybody healthy after! On both teams!


Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 1:34 PM
 

I will try to respond to your questions in order:

I don't think how we get ahead with affect substitution patterns. We could run for 300 and throw for 75 in the first half and have a 40 point lead and I think TL plays 1 series in the 3rd and is done.

Practice is different than game reps, but game reps tomorrow will not help TL anymore than game reps last month helped him if we cancel the upcoming games and it's his last playing time until Dec 19.

We will not attempt to get Trevor hit more via more playing time to prepare him to get hit later.

Covered loss of games in comment above. If this is the last game we play before ACC title game, it's not going to help Trevor to get an extra 10-15 snaps vs chance of getting injured. Risk:reward is not worth it.

Removing TL after a job well-done is as much about limiting his hits as it is about developing others guys at this point in the season. Sure we know what DJ can do now, but we won't leave TL in longer just because our backup is already ready to play.

My reason for thinking it won't be a blowout has very little if anything to do with FSU. I don't trust that we will have a full starting lineup on either side of the ball due to the lingering injuries in the program. Also we haven't blown anyone out in over a month. This team hasn't started fast enough for a blowout since GA Tech.

I don't think FSU has a ton of talent. I'm not sure I they have a ton of pride though they seem to be playing harder than the last couple of years.

I fully expect the Tigers to play VERY hard, but I think we have done that in all games this year.

I haven't seen that "destroy people" trait in this team from a perspective of putting teams away early, especially on defense.

I hope I am wrong and being too cautious with my expectations.

We definitely agree in that we just want to see a healthy team come out with a win for the Tigers.


We won't be up big early without Trevor playing well

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 1:53 PM
 

I know you've seen our OL all year.. do you think they are capable of blocking well enough for us to put up ~200 rushing yards in the 1st half?

2021 white level member

Re: We won't be up big early without Trevor playing well

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 2:37 PM
 


I know you've seen our OL all year.. do you think they are capable of blocking well enough for us to put up ~200 rushing yards in the 1st half?




I am more in the "hope so mindset" on that one! As you said, nothing about our OL play outside of pass pro which has been consistently good tells me we could rush for 200 plus. What I am hoping for is the time off allowed for some technical stuff to be cleaned up. Maybe some small nuances the guys were not doing in run blocking got cleaned up. Probably just orange colored Kool Aid and day dreaming going on. But, as well as these guys pass block, it's hard to understand why they can't change modes and get a bit more physical and impose their will more.

I think and this is more of a question for the room: we are missing that one guy who is the leader on that OL. One would think it's Carmen Jackson since he has the most snaps and big game experience and is the vet: but his personality doesn't lend itself to that! I think that's what's missing from an accountability - "have a no coaches no other position group meeting where stuff gets ironed out type meeting"! I think in the past those type players only meetings have taken place and helped galvanize position groups or units. Just so happen I think we have a bunch of good guys who are very technical(why the pass pro is solid to above average) but not very physical(you have to have attitude and an edge for that). Just my thoughts; I don't know of course!


Re: We won't be up big early without Trevor playing well

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 2:59 PM
 

Also, what if we get our wish and the OL is run blocking like the typical Wisconsin run blocking OL Saturday and we are able to run at will.

But, TL comes out and is rusty! In other words we get up on FSU but had little to nothing to do with TL. To me in that situation you keep him in right?


Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!


Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 4:55 PM
 

TigersO said:

I'm not convinced we will run away with this game early, but if we did then Trevor would have to be playing well.

If he is playing well, then the "leave him in to knock the rust off" concept isn't really needed.

I don't expect our staff to respond any different in this game than they have in any other game.

If TL is in, he will run the full offense.

If the game becomes a blowout early, TL will likely stay in through 1 series in the 3rd quarter and then we will move to other players.

I think as a 3rd year player that TL is past the point of playing in a blowout game just to get reps for later. He isn't going to see anything new and he can get all of the throws and work he needs moving forward in other games to be ready for the bigger games you are thinking of.




What you say is understandable, but I worry about Trevor's conditioning when having to play a full 60 minute game when most of his games are only 30-40 minute games, and that do concern me a bit!!!

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Heisman winners in the past have

[3]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 12:23 PM
 

racked up their huge numbers by playing all four quarters and amassing 700 yards of offense against Marshall.

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There's something in these hills.


Re: Heisman winners in the past have

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 12:56 PM
 


racked up their huge numbers by playing all four quarters and amassing 700 yards of offense against Marshall.




I won't lie - it would be awesome to have a Tigers Heisman Trophy winner! I for one still think it's on the table. Remember - O-cry-o st. has had a game cancelled as well versus little Tagovailoia and Maryland(suspicious because he was a hot QB and didn't get to light up the buck nuts).

Trevor in my opinion with a strong performance the rest of the way including a dominant performance versus ND in the ACCCG would propel him to the top! Who would Justin Fields have to perform well against in the Big 10? Northwestern? Indiana? Indiana is a pretender and you can tell because the "top 10" match up wasn't even flexed to a night game. They beat teams with bad records but a bunch of history to get in the top 10 Michigan and Penn St. Fields won't have to play much past 3 qtrs - but will knowing crying ryan day.

In an unorthodox year - I could see some unorthodox thinking on behalf of our staff! All players get this year back! So, there is that! Normally getting seniors playing time and the like goes out the window. Especially if a kid isn't going to get drafted. Or is looking at being a UDFA and could boost their stock by getting more time to prove themselves.

TL if he comes back and is TL behind a "more motivated" Clemson OL should be scary as Hades for opponents! The folks who vote for Heisman would still have to look at body of work(remember Fields lost a game). Fields max games in regular season is 7. TL max is 9. He is in my opinion still in position even if he doesn't pass for 700 yards, LOL!


Re: Heisman winners in the past have

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 5:27 PM
 

IMO, a Heisman recipient is a player in today's game that is consistent (Usually a QB/RB) with padding their stats when playing against weaker opponents, and that's nothing to be proud of IMO!!!

A Heisman Trophy winner use to be a player that has done the most, and worked the hardest during a game that made it possible for his team to win games during the FB season, and they wouldn't have won as many game without that type of player, a true Heisman player on their team. That surely isn't who a Heisman player is in this day and time of college FB!!!!

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Re: Heisman winners in the past have

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 6:04 PM
 


IMO, a Heisman recipient is a player in today's game that is consistent (Usually a QB/RB) with padding their stats when playing against weaker opponents, and that's nothing to be proud of IMO!!!

A Heisman Trophy winner use to be a player that has done the most, and worked the hardest during a game that made it possible for his team to win games during the FB season, and they wouldn't have won as many game without that type of player, a true Heisman player on their team. That surely isn't who a Heisman player is in this day and time of college FB!!!!




I agree! It's not what it should be for sure. Somebody out there is thinking which ones would you change over the past several years! My answer is: half of them! They would sometimes even put stats up against other deserving candidates and "no go"!
One player would get the nod over another if their competition was perceived to have been tougher! Which goes back to good old bias! Lamar Jackson being so dynamic and making plays was the only reason an ACC player won it - "along with the fact DW4 was outstanding and the respect he commanded"!

Whatever Oklahoma QB that plays in Lincoln Riley's system will always be in the running! The Wisconsin RB will likely always be in the running! Remember when Southern Cal RB use to be the one position you knew would be Heisman worthy? That's dating myself; but I don't care.

Usually Alabama QB's don't get the nod because everyone knows there is so much talent around them. But, you wonder why that doesn't hurt O Cry O St. players? Ohio State routinely is far and away more talented than anyone in the Big 10(especially over the last 20 years). Iowa, Wisconscin, Northwestern, Indiana, Rutgers, Nebraska, Minnesota,Illinois all tend to have to rely on developing players opposed to getting a bunch of highly touted players. Even some of your ACC schools like Nan Cee St. will land a handful of 4 star guys, North Carolina does well in recruiting, Miami, FSU, Pitt does pretty well, Va. Tech does well. I think GT will start being right in that mix being in the heart of Atlanta and having a very energetic motivated coach who is full of the Ra Ra stuff you need to attract certain players!
O Cry O St. doesn't get penalized for it like they should in short - just politics and historical good play rearing it's head in voters minds.

The popularity contest though - might work in Clemson's favor in this upside year called 2020. TL16 wins it with a strong performance the rest of the way. Fields already lost a chance to start opposite Tagovailoa and Maryland. How many other games will be cancelled? Even if it's not O cry O St. what if an opponent shuts it down. Same could be said for Clemson; but Trevor would have played more games!


Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[3]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 12:28 PM
 

IMO Trevor will be allowed to play long enough in all remaining games (remember no further games are guaranteed because of Covid) to give him a real shot at getting a Heisman. ETN is pretty much out of the running after the ND game, and we desperately need to protect him for the ACCCG and Playoffs. ETN is the player I see as not getting any more playing time than necessary. On the other hand, it is unfair that the media seems to be pushing Trevor to the side on the Heisman race because he missed a few games. I really think Dabo wants to rest Big Cinco's shoulder, so I see Trevor trying to get 3 to 5 TDs in this game, and others, to put his name back in the running for about the only thing the Clemson Football program doesn't have.


So TL comes out after catch 22; sounds good

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 1:02 PM
 

But if Clemson is up big, we could do like FSU did in
2000 and 2013 where Weinke and the staters then Winston
and the starters were still in well into the 4th quarter
with huge leads. In both games, the starting QB threw
about a 90 yd reception to the tight end in the middle
of the 4th quarter with about 40 point leads. I say no
mercy!

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Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 1:06 PM
 

I absolutely would love for a tiger to win the Heisman, but with the way that injuries have been this year, I would love it more if we hung 50 on FSU ASAP and can get Trevor and ETN out of the game. Game-speed reps to get in sync are important too, but they are veterans that have been there before so I don't think it's as important. Hang 50 and get 'em out of the game! Just my opinion

2021 student level member

Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 1:19 PM
 

I understand what you're saying, and whatever the coaches decide is best for TL-16 and the team, I'm fine with whatever choice they make. Now if I actually had a say in how long Trevor should stay in the game if we have the score out of reach of FSU mounting a come back, and having a chance win by half time.

I would start and play Trevor through the 3d quarter by only calling plays that Trevor may need live game speed, in live game action to get better with those plays that could be useful to Trevor in games ahead us, like taking the ball from up under center, something that he never does in live games. Just anything that our coaches believe would help Trevor to be a better all around QB.

When the quarter was over, then I would hand the ball to our next healthiest QB to carry the team through the 4th quarter until the game clock reads 00:00!!!

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My guess is they don't change anything in terms of

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 1:47 PM
 

when they pull Trevor. If we are up really big i would expect him to get a couple series in the 2nd half and then get the hook.

2021 white level member

I think regardless of score, Trevor plays at least 3 quarters unless

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 3:28 PM
 

FSU plays best game of year and Clemson is lackluster. I see him getting playing time to build his endurance back up. COVID is no joke and hope he has stamina to make it 3 quarters. Game time is only way to build lungs back up and season is winding down. Play Trevor and maybe he can get 5 or 6 TD passes and boom, right back on Heisman track


Re: I think regardless of score, Trevor plays at least 3 quarters unless

[2]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 3:59 PM
 

I love all of these answers.

No right or wrong.

This is why being a coach couch is the safest job in the world, LOL ??????!

We shall see!


Re: I think regardless of score, Trevor plays at least 3 quarters unless

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 4:50 PM
 

Armchair and couch coaches don't make coaches pay, but we don't get fired either!!!

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Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 6:12 PM
 

Great question.

I expect Trevor to play the entire first half. I expect him to throw at least 5 TD passes in the first half and for Clemson to be up 45+ points.

If that happens I would expect him not to play in the second half. But, if he does, it will be for one series only.

If, somehow, the game is something like 38-10, I would expect him to play more than one series in the second half.

2021 white level member

Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!

[1]
Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 8:28 PM
 

TL won't play that much because DJ is playing so well and his continued development requires playing time. It won't help FSU though as DJ proves he is one of the best anywhere...after TL.


Re: Catch 22 Question. Trevor playing time if blowout!


Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 10:03 PM
 

DJ has a shoulder injury that Dabo is wanting to get healed up, so we won't be seeing DJ unless Trevor goes down, and let us all pray that don't happen this close to championship season!!!

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