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Topic: Basketball..a 40 year perspective
Replies: 21   Last Post: Mar 16, 2017 6:11 PM by: CM Shack
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Basketball..a 40 year perspective

emoji_events [14]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 11:43 AM
 

I attended Clemson in the late 70s when Bill Foster was our coach. He had his ups and downs, but did take us to the Elite 8, even when the NCAA took only 32 teams. Then Cliff Ellis took us on a roller coaster ride but we were usually pretty good every 3 or 4 years, even winning the ACC regular season one year. Then we had Rick Barnes who accomplished some great things with our program. We all know about the "Shyatt as Head Coach" experiment that certainly was a bust. Then Purnell came in and we were a regular in the NCAA tournament, although we never won a game. But we were a good program that was fun to watch.

Now we have Brad Brownell. While I don't really expect us to win the ACC, particularly with the expansion and the teams that joined the conference, we should be, at worse, in the middle of the pack and making the NCAA tournament at least 2 or 3 times in his 7 years tenure. Last night was a total debacle. And it was more than what we saw on the court. I sat behind the Clemson bench and the body language and attitude of the players was absolutely terrible. Without calling out particular players, I saw a total dis-interest in paying attention to the coach during timeouts. I saw shoulder shrugs and mumbling under their breathe after being talked to by Brownell. I saw Coach Smith have to tell a couple of players to shut up and stop the mouthing off. There was absolutely no leadership from a single player on the team. No one stepped up, and no one appeared that they wanted to step up.

So now what? With the players we have coming back, and the recruits coming in, I see absolutely no way we improve next year. We lose our leading scorer, our leading 3 point shooter, and our leading rebounder. I'm not sure anyone on the roster can fill these roles. I think now is the time to change. Next year won't be good either way...whether Brownell is retained or a new coach is in place. But we are at a plateau right now, and it is not a very good one.


Brownell lost his team

[1]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 11:48 AM
 

Next year will be a nightmare if he returns


"lost his team" - this is a cliche badly mangled

[1]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:20 PM
 

there was no team to "lose";

there was no improvement to coach;

there was no work ethic to build on....

you could see it from the first of the year

the key players had not improved year-to-year

and they all apparently thought since BGame was All-ACC last year

then they would simply be handed an NCAA invite this year.


You should let DRad know this.***

[1]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 11:51 AM
 



2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: You should let DRad know this.***

[1]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:06 PM
 

Agreed! We all should. Changing coaches is a mess. It was obvious last night that the players have lost their respect for Brownell. He's lost control of the team. How is next year supposed to be better? The change has to be made.


"lost control of the team" - BS

[2]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:22 PM
 

stop spouting clichés you think the other people on the Board will buy into...

if he lost control of the team

then why were they up by 19 at the half?

Bull-effing-Shyatt...


Re: You should let DRad know this.***


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 3:28 PM
 

If Drad doesn't know this already, he needs to hit the road too.


Re: Basketball..a 40 year perspective


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:09 PM
 

You bring up such a good point. I think the key component that is missing (and was only made slightly better this year) is that BB's product is NOT fun to watch. As a disclaimer, winning is ALWAYS fun to watch. However,gutting out these defensive battles for wins gets old sometimes. I would almost rather watch us lose and play exciting basketball with back cuts, screens, inside-out game, etc. than win and see a stagnant offense.

I saw it on here before, but offense sells these days! Much easier to recruit offensive players and teach them defense than the other way around.


um, what great things did Barnes accomplish?


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:17 PM
 

waiting...


A Sweet 16 is a great accomplishment

[2]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:21 PM
 

in Clemson basketball history, as are three straight NCAA appearances and four straight postseason appearances. He's the only coach we've ever had to make the post season every year he was coach


he ran and hid from Dean Smith...

[1]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:23 PM
 

give me a Tates Locke cheater over a coward any day.


He left for a better job


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:26 PM
 

How you don't get that is beyond me


Exactly.


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:30 PM
 

Probably the same people too saying that we should get an accomplished P5 college basketball coach. News flash, Clemson is a bottom tier P5 coaching job for basketball. All we have going for us is that we are in the ACC (which may not even work for us when finding a coach because they know the competition they'll have to compete with). Any P5 coach with success either A) already has a better job than Clemson or B) will get way better offers than Clemson.

Our hope is to hire coaches like Barnes, or Wade, or Keatts and have them stick around long enough to make some tournaments and feed off that momentum with the next coaching hire to keep the train moving. Only then will we get to a job status high enough to warrant a long-time coach.


Which is why a Will Wade makes sense


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:33 PM
 

if anyone is going to stick around it would be an alum. I think VCU is a better job personally, but you have to pursue him strongly if a move is made


Man, we could get along


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 3:24 PM
 

On the money again. That alumni tie is the only reason we have a shot with Wade and hopefully the reason he could potentially see Clemson as more than a stepping stone gig. Nobody wants to hear it, but you could easily argue that VCU is a better job than Clemson. That being said, we have resources to throw at him that VCU cannot match if Clemson really wants to go All In on basketball. I really like Keatts too, but he's destined to land somewhere better than Clemson in time.


I assume you're kidding


Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:27 PM
 

He got in Dean Smith's face at the ACC Tournament. He was NOT scared of Dean Smith


Are you kidding?

[2]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:26 PM
 

He went to three straight NCAA appearances including a Sweet 16 in only 4 years at Clemson. He was actually successful. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


He brought Greg Buckner with him

[2]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:27 PM
 

Also beat Kentucky and chewd Dean Smith (spit) a new one.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg




The definition of awesome!


And brought a toughness we have not

[4]
Posted: Mar 15, 2017 12:29 PM
 

had before or after him


Re: um, what great things did Barnes accomplish?

[1]
Posted: Mar 16, 2017 5:59 PM
 

He never blew a 19 point lead at home


Re: um, what great things did Barnes accomplish?

[2]
Posted: Mar 16, 2017 6:07 PM
 

...and that is why you should not argue with this type of fan .
A 20 point lead at home to a D2 school is grounds for dismissal considering the paltry results you've produced over 7 years at the same job. Coaching is a "results based" career ...and if you're getting bad results then you'd expect a change .

2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

DB23


First coach to take us to 3 straight NCAAs and we were a 2OT

[1]
Posted: Mar 16, 2017 6:11 PM
 

loss from making Elite 8


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