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CU Guru [1336]
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UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 5, 2021, 9:37 PM
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UK to Miura:
"But to your question, and what individuals have been advocating, instead of hiring police officers in the traditional sense, we should be hire mental health counselors trained to diffuse these non-violent situations and provide a better outcome for the individual than locking them up. (See link below)"
UK: Please give us a scenario how this would work. For example, a mental health professional gets a call (from let's say, 911) that a person is acting bizarrely at a Mall. People are scared and concerned something bad could happen.
What to do next, UK? How would this rollout?
Thnx for your suggestion. Very worth considering. The PSR could work, IMO. Miura.
Link:https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/portland-street-response-poised-to-expand/283-5045a52a-dc4d-4fcc-bd65-12891504b18f
Message was edited by: MiuraTiger®
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Oculus Spirit [98028]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 8:15 AM
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I see you're doing it again.....
PS. Talking to yourself isn't that bad. When you start having 2-way conversations with yourself, might want to get checked out.
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CU Guru [1336]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 9:19 AM
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Where the he!! is UK Tiger? Good grief, is he running for cover again? Or is it a cajones problem...or both!? I complimented him and set up a rational discussion and poof!!!...he's gone.
However, I do believe his ego will allow him to respond sooner or later. His beat downs are becoming a regular thing. I guess some people just enjoy losing. UK's specialty?? LOL
Reminder: UK Tiger believes we should hire mental health professionals to address non-violent people in distress, rather than sending the police who, apparently, will lock them up or shoot them, or both! That right there is some UK logic for ya!
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 9:28 AM
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Well i see you saw my reply to the initial thread which you bailed on because you have no response.
UKTiger 15 - Miura 0
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 9:35 AM
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The article in the link details how the responses have been trialed. The hiring is as follows for this program
"four crisis medics
two mental health clinician I’s
two mental health clinician II’s
three community health workers
two peer support specialists
PSR can’t respond to calls where the subject has a weapon
they can’t go into homes or private businesses
they can’t respond to suicide calls."
So in your example below, I think the PSRs are limited by the trial as they can't go into private businesses which i think is silly, but is likely a liability issue which hasn't been resolved yet.
But in this situation, likely a crisis medic and a mental health individual to work with the person at risk. I would imagine there would be police backup in case something went sideways but as these programs become more ingrained, that could go away. Once the situation is resolved, then you move into post event support with the community health workers and peer support
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CU Guru [1336]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 12:44 PM
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Question: How will the responders know exactly what is going on? For example, what if the person in distress can't correspond well? What if it's an ambush? Will the call go through 911? Do you think these responders will be at bodily risk at times? If so, how to handle it?
So, UK, you're suggesting a typical city would hire:
four crisis medics
two mental health clinician I’s
two mental health clinician II’s
three community health workers
two peer support specialists
And this is to eliminate the Police that you seem to hate so much? And that actually lock up criminals, right?
What was the question I didn't answer? I can't answer all of your questions at once. Glad to respond..just ask it again.
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 1:18 PM
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Question 1: How will the responders know exactly what is going on? For example, what if the person in distress can't correspond well? What if it's an ambush? Will the call go through 911? Do you think these responders will be at bodily risk at times? If so, how to handle it?
As per the article, upon a 911 or emergency call, the call handler would decide what type of resource to send. If it was a non-violent individual, then they should send this PSR team as a first responder to deal and diffuse the situation. If they can't correspond well, then there is an escalation to additional resources be it better communicators or armed police.
I mean, if there is an ambush then police are just as much at risk as someone else. No one can predict an ambush, but i surmise "ambushes" are less than 1% of all emergency calls.
Question 2: And this is to eliminate the Police that you seem to hate so much? And that actually lock up criminals, right?
I don't hate the police. Please read my strings. So this isn't to "eliminate" police but to reimagine it in a better way. The "war on drugs" has failed. Full stop. The militarisation of the police has failed. Full stop. It has not made America safer. Police people in the UK aren't armed (outside of special groups) ... and surprise surprise deaths by cops is virtually nil.
My point is this ... a significant portion of calls are not violent criminal calls. It's non violent issues and disputes which can be solved by trained professionals and not armed police people.
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CU Guru [1336]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 3:35 PM
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Do you see any potential issues with this approach:
"As per the article, upon a 911 or emergency call, the call handler would decide what type of resource to send".
Who would that person be?
What would be their training?
Would there be liability issues? Like, for example, sending the wrong responder? Or if there is a fatality because of the lack of an armed policeman?
Have you seen this type of approach in the UK or anywhere else? If no, why not?
Should the responding person be armed? If so, why? If not, why?
Again, why do YOU think the initial responders shouldn't be the police? They're trained to address a multitude of emergencies and could easily evaluate the situation (in person) and rally the right people to the scene (assuming that those people you suggest are ready to go immediately.
What would be the most important benefit of using a system like the PSR?
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 4:00 PM
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Question: Who would that person be? What would be their training? Would there be liability issues? Like, for example, sending the wrong responder? Or if there is a fatality because of the lack of an armed policeman?
Answer: Please see the above notes on resources. They've been detailed out. I do not know their training but it's a H***uva lot more than 4 weeks and given a gun like our police force today. I do not know what would happen in terms of fatality, but studies do show that aggressive armed interactions, lead to aggressive responses. This is why a significant amount of police force in the world doesn't arm their police people.
Question: Should the responding person be armed? If so, why? If not, why?
Answer: Absolutely not! this is the purpose of this group. To try and diffuse aggression and clearly leading with guns has not been the answer. People are dying who should not.
Question: Again, why do YOU think the initial responders shouldn't be the police? They're trained to address a multitude of emergencies and could easily evaluate the situation (in person) and rally the right people to the scene (assuming that those people you suggest are ready to go immediately.
Answer: Why do we have one of the highest rates of police killings in the world? Because police are trained to eliminate threats (on EXTREMELY limited training). Why are we sending them into handle situations they've even admitted they aren't trained for? Why are you intent on continuing a model which doesn't work?
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CU Guru [1336]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 5:26 PM
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YOU think this model will work? I'll bet you $1000 it will crash and burn. I'll be amazed if Portland even tries it. Looks good on paper but the implementation will fail, big time. Why--it's a knee jerk liberal reaction based on political considerations and faux police hatred by minorities.
Remember when defunding the police took off and then it crashed? This too is bat shyt crazy.
You say police have very EXTREMELY limited training? What are the stats?
Do you think any other cities will adopt the Portland model...since it's sooooooooo wonderful?? No way in he!!. It's Fantasy World logic, usually seen in liberal cities where crime is out of control.
The liability issues alone will kill it. Mark it down.
Anymore crazy-a$$ed ideas about the police? You been drinking and drugging too much? Too many pints in Pubs?
Message was edited by: MiuraTiger®
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CU Guru [1336]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further: ] |
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Hey, in case you forgot or missed it....you do hate the police. You trash them at every whipstitch! Grow up. I'm embarrassed for you. The black neighborhoods overwhelmingly want MORE police presence, not people to hold their hands and speak softly!! YCBS
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: UK Tiger has a reasonable plan. Let's take it further:
Oct 6, 2021, 5:38 PM
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Please support any assertions with facts.
Also "The black neighborhoods overwhelmingly want MORE police presence, not people to hold their hands and speak softly"
I would highly challenge that. More police = more dead black males. #Fact
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CU Guru [1336]
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Replies: 12
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