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Topic: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these
Replies: 30   Last Post: May 14, 2021, 5:17 PM by: 76er®
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Replies: 30  

The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these

[4]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 8:13 AM
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Darkside hackers. The hackers have now shown just how easy it would be to paralyse part of our infrastructure from afar. If they are allowed to get away with it, it will just be open season on any company in this country, if it already isn't. Send the same Seal Team who took out Bin Laden, but this time, bring back public proof of death. Right now, these hackers figure themselves to be white collar crime with no victims, impenetrable in Russia. That perception must be changed, irrevocably. Poot on Putin.

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these

[3]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 8:21 AM
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I share the outrage about the hacking. I do think lots of this is on us for not having better cybersecurity. The power grid in Texas had years of warning about cold and didnt do squat to protect themselves. They didnt want to spend the money. I picture the same attitude w cybersecurity. Lots of talk and conferences and no action.

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The "no action" part is what has emboldened these cyber

[4]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 8:28 AM
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terrorists (yes, that is what they are) to the current levels. I don't think I have ever seen a story where any of these cyber hackers were brought to justice, and dealt with harshly. It is high time that governments started treating intellectual property with the same degree of enforcement as they do physical land mass. If we don't, we better learn to speak Russian or Chinese pretty fast.

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Re: The "no action" part is what has emboldened these cyber

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Posted: May 13, 2021, 10:21 AM
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IDK overt use of force to execute foreign citizens would not play well. I worry about that type of thinking and how that would play moving forward. First, it is no secret that the USA hacks other targets intentionally (See Iranian Nuclear Refinement hacks), next I do wonder about our own clandestine activities as I am sure we are not "inactive" but rather "quiet" about it. It gets back to an eye-for-eye and what would "stop" Russia or China from basically the same approach to other activities that it might find equally as problematic - see free speech.

Number 2, how far should the US go (and become intertwined) to protect private activities. This cooperate-state item is nasty business. Keep in mind the clamor for "security" is how freedom is given away and leads to both big government and overreach. Tax payers should not have to pay for commercial business to have their doors "locked" by a government employee.

Number 3 - how about addressing the 100 years of automobile/petroleum over-reliance focused transportation grid. Having a resilient system with more alternatives is better.

Number 4 - much of the shortage is because of stupid over-reaction. Can't fix stupid, just charge more.

The high road is hard to find...

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Re: The "no action" part is what has emboldened these cyber

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 10:52 AM
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Mostly agree, especially with item number 1. Imagine the US government going into a sovereign state to prosecute a crime committed against a US company in the US. You just can't do that. "Sovereign" is key. That is why we have extradition treaties. An attack on a public entity would be a different story, but you still cannot answer cybercrime with violence, unless the cybercrime results in injury or death. Our government answers cyber attacks with cyber attacks. There is no appetite in the Pentagon for escalating to war, and I totally agree with that.

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Re: The "no action" part is what has emboldened these cyber


Posted: May 13, 2021, 10:59 AM
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Number 2 is an interesting point that deserves thought and debate. Yes, it is a private company, but their services are also part of our vital infrastructure. It is in our collective interest to protect it, but the owner, who derives profit, should bear some responsibility. That makes for a good debate!

This whole mess, along with the I40 bridge over the Mississippi River are examples of the need for investment in infrastructure. Unfortunately, politicians and the public seem to have no stomach for long term investments. It is very short-sighted.

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Re: The "no action" part is what has emboldened these cyber


Posted: May 13, 2021, 2:15 PM
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#2 is politics at its core as the roll of government to both intervene and act within private business dealings is American to the core.

My worry is that Government is then "cited" as needed to protect business, then is later determined that those government actions need to be privatized again and then government is just a fat middleman.

If it is something that is vital (like the post office, military, etc) then does it become a resource (ie oil) distributor? It kinda is, but my take is that it is always "all-in" or "all-out" for government intrusion and then businesses operate within that ecosystem.

I get back to this: hacking is just digital burglary. As a business owner, there are steps to securing one's own assets. Just like a shopkeeper locking their doors at night, they are responsible for assuming the risk/reward of security. While criminal actions do take place, the government (police) is only there to enforce laws/codes post-action. It is not the job of the police to lock the door of the business, nor is it the job of the business to address the legal grievance (penalty). There is quasi-overlap with police patrols, but ultimately if the business can't secure their assets, they go under and/or pass the loss to the next consumer. I don't expect business or government to stop all hacking/burglary or be able to bring all to justice but if the business can't keep it going and it is "critical need" that exist outside the market for general welfare, well that is teeing it up for governmental action/play.

Now the American response to "piracy" is very different and considering the international implications, might be more astute. Then again, American interest were also pirate and we did fight international conflicts as a result (see Barbary Coast and shores of Tripoli).

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Yeah, there's just no way that plays on any level.***


Posted: May 13, 2021, 11:52 AM
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Doc-to-be, if we followed your advice, Osama Bin Laden


Posted: May 13, 2021, 11:55 AM
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would still be holding court over in Pakistan. Enemies of the US are constantly evolving and changing tactics. We have to be willing to play hardball to match the threat. Cyber terrorism is that next step our enemies are using.

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Re: Doc-to-be, if we followed your advice, Osama Bin Laden

[2]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 12:19 PM
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Disagree - Bin Laden was working with the full knowledge and full support of the Taliban/Afgan government and as basically a (multi) state-supported militia - Al-Qaeda -that attacked outside their territories.

He was both convicted in the US and the US pursued extradition for the 98 embassy bombings. Didn't take but that was the right action but with 9/11 severity and the Afgan's known known involvement and support of Al-Qaeda, it was a cause for both War as well as removal from existence.

Now if continued continued hacking continues from state supported entities, is it cause for war? Generally not as it is not an attack on life (although piracy is an interesting subject).

There is a difference between an anarchist hacker/pirate and a defacto general operating a multi-national terrorist organization behind a quasi-governmental entity.

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Ah... Fantasy Land.***


Posted: May 14, 2021, 10:39 AM
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boy those are some broad strokes pretty sure it is all a bit

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 2:07 PM
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more complicated than that

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these


Posted: May 13, 2021, 11:38 AM
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Come on dude. That was a once in a blue moon ice storm in Texas. It was way worse than the ice storm they had 10 years ago, which did not shut the system down. The polar vortex a few years ago didn’t shut their system down. This is the weakness of having green energy, renewable energy, which is more expensive especially for the people that the Democrats say they care about most: poor people. What we need is natural gas on the way to nuclear followed by whatever new technology we develop in the next 50 years. And even liberal democratic environmentalist like Robert Bryce and Michael Shellenberger, both experts in this field, say we should have natural gas on the way to nuclear.

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these


Posted: May 13, 2021, 1:43 PM
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Intelligent opinion low country tiger, but remember, a majority of people don’t really comprehend what you mean by natural gas to nuclear. The average greenie has no concept of electromagnetic induction and the fact that thousands of years from now humans will still rely on this concept for electricity.

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these


Posted: May 13, 2021, 1:43 PM
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Intelligent opinion low country tiger, but remember, a majority of people don’t really comprehend what you mean by natural gas to nuclear. The average greenie has no concept of electromagnetic induction and the fact that thousands of years from now humans will still rely on this concept for electricity.

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these


Posted: May 13, 2021, 1:28 PM
    Reply

There are major hacks every day. Recently a major hospital owning corporation with over 300 across the country was hacked. Shut down numerous hospitals for several days. There are tens of thousands of hack attempts every year against government and private IT systems. They will be successful some portion of the time. We will see more and more of this.

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Interesting BBC article on ransom ware attacks and recent

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 1:44 PM
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pipeline attack.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57063636


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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 9:07 AM
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In this day and time that we live in I feel sorry for people whose money is in banks that have bad security systems that are supposed to do the job of preventing hackers from getting into their personal accounts but in reality it is not secure at all.

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these

[2]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 9:13 AM
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To my knowledge the only entity to identify the source has been our FBI. Keep in mind this is the same group that spied on a presidential candidate during his campaign and also continued to do so while he was president. I do not believe the FBI nor do I trust them!

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 9:20 AM
    Reply

Not sure which candidate you mean. Hoover kept a file on everyone and used it for years to stay in power.
He had dirt on every Pres and potential president and let them know it. No one dared mess with hi, in DC.

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The original Epstein...***


Posted: May 14, 2021, 10:42 AM
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A Brutal Mass Cyber Attack on Russia Would Fix It

[2]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 11:42 AM
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If state sponsored, Putin would understand pain, if rogues Putin would have them killed.

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^^^underrated poast^^^

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 12:33 PM
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Even the perception of such a threat would undoubtedly bring Putin closer to a negotiating table in that regard.

Convincing Putin to take them out for us is the best course of action. It’s cheaper, it honors national sovereignty, it *might* strengthen our international perception/efficacy in peacekeeping, and it would be cheaper. Did I mention it would be cheaper?

Undertaking that diplomatic objective is no walk in the park, however.

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GO TIGERS


There is some merit to this strategy. Need to handle it

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 2:04 PM
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that way or send in the covert ops to neutralize these terrorists.

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I would go for the covert operation to take them out. But,


Posted: May 14, 2021, 5:17 PM
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the other option that would be sure to work would be for some of OUR hackers to raid Putin's secret bank accounts and empty them out. Hold HIS money hostage until he shuts these people down. That would be poetic justice. :)

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Re: A Brutal Mass Cyber Attack on Russia Would Fix It


Posted: May 14, 2021, 12:36 PM
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I think this would be a more prudent strategy. While maybe not officially state sponsored, these hacker groups benefit from their governments turning a blind eye to anything that damages US. If congress approved our own group of pirate hackers to unleash havoc on Russian and Chinese businesses and infrastructure, I bet we would see these types of hacks in US reduce drastically.

Businesses (particularly infrastructure related) should step up their cyber security as well. Some of these hacks were no brainers for hackers. Username:admin / PW: admin is not adequate when your responsible for a populations water supply....

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I complete agree, 76


Posted: May 13, 2021, 1:39 PM
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Russia, China, Iran, or wherever they come from. Attack us, pay the price!

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these


Posted: May 13, 2021, 3:08 PM
    Reply

Cybercrime is a prolific and highly profitable enterprise. A lot of it is state-sponsored terrorism but profit motive is the biggest driver. Entire ‘organizations’ with management, brokers, software developers, etc. exist simply to hack systems and collect ransoms. In fact, Darkside aren’t even the ones who hacked Colonial. Darkside just develops the software/ransomware...sort of like a Microsoft for the dark web.

They may even be one of the more ‘ethical’ actors out there...they ask their clients not to hack anything that would harm people...they also donate to charity. That doesn’t mean I don’t think they are criminals, but I’ve known some large companies/banks that aren’t as ethical.

Some of the fault also lies with Colonial and other companies who don’t or won’t spend the money to correct and prevent vulnerabilities in their systems. If you leave the front door to your house standing wide open and someone walks in and takes your TV, they are still criminals and should be punished...but you were also a ####### for leaving your front door open. Some might even argue you deserved it and that hopefully it teaches you a valuable lesson in home security.

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Yikes, I don't think sending Seal Team 6 into Moscow would

[1]
Posted: May 13, 2021, 4:22 PM
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be very smart. Russia has as many nukes pointed at us as we do them.

Besides, let's follow the money and see if it ends back into Sleepy Joe's son's accounts.

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LOL,if you buy that story


Posted: May 13, 2021, 7:15 PM
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LOL.

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Re: The U.S. should not let up on finding and taking out these


Posted: May 13, 2021, 6:00 PM
    Reply

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O41RglPDWw

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