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Topic: Some thoughts on the game
Replies: 49   Last Post: Sep 19, 2021, 9:31 PM by: striperfan
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Replies: 49  

Some thoughts on the game

emoji_events [26]
Sep 19, 2021, 2:44 PM
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Ok, here are some game thoughts. And if you are expecting to see me trashing players, you can go look somewhere else. Sure, DJ can play better. A few members of the OL can play better. I think a TE was held some in the second half yesterday for ineffectiveness. And I think the WRs can certainly all play better. But I also believe their coaches can help them out.

I will start with the defense - Vonta Bentley is a stud. 13 tackles in his first start. Been saying for two years he needs to play more, but there is also the understanding he's got a really good player ahead of him. I am glad he got a chance to shine.

Regarding the OL, I thought they played better. I hear people say there are no leaders on the offense, so I guess they missed Matt Bockhorst going ballistic SEVERAL times on the sideline Saturday. He was in the ear of everybody. The two tackles seem to really struggle at times, and I was shocked to see the participation report and see that no reserve OL played. I want to see more of Paul Tchio and Mitchell Mayes just to see what they can do. Clemson has always prided itself on playing a lot of people, so why didn't they play? If they aren't ready, two years in, then why? Missed in recruiting? Development? I think they both can play and would love to see it.

Now, to the offense. Everyone can see it's a struggle. DJ missed a wide-open Ngata early, but I've been told Ngata wasn't where he was supposed to be. When your QB doesn't trust his receivers, chaos occurs. It looks as if the coaches don't entirely trust DJ, either, and that's an issue because it waters down the playbook. But that is where the coaches can help him - call the quick game. If the defense is dropping 8, then where is the Bang 8 (the skinny post). Where is the slant? Where is the quick hit to the TE on the side? There is way too much talent out on that field - get the ball in their hands fast and let them make plays. And if the defense is playing off like that, you still have to take shots down the field. I also miss the eye candy - the orbit motion, the movement. And for what it's worth, run DJ earlier and convince him he has to pull on the RPO. It's all technical, it's correctable.

Also, and I said it last week, move Ross back outside. It's where he is at his best. It is where he belongs. Again, just my opinion and no one has ever paid me a dollar to coach football. But you gotta put people in a position to succeed, and in my opinion, that is where he will succeed. Also, need to run someone in the slot that can sit in the zone.

There is a part of me that also wonders if there is a lack of continuity on the offensive staff. Spiller is new. Grish in his second year. Elliott is in his first year at TE. And as much as you love the Clemson "family" aspect, maybe it's good to sometimes go out of the family and make hires, get some fresh, creative ideas. Change things up and don't let things get stale.

Now, these are all just thoughts, ideas, hopefully to kind of drive conversation and not anger. Would love to hear everyone else's thoughts.

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Two best statements

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 2:50 PM
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“You gotta put people in position to succeed.”

“The coaches don’t trust DJ”


These two things if corrected can mean the world of difference for this group of kids on offense.

Hope they figure it out.

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The way Bockhorst was getting beaten like he stole

emoji_events [6]
Sep 19, 2021, 2:52 PM
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something...kind of interesting that he was upset with other players.

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in the night, nothing warms your lonely gums like a sweat soaked pillow


Re: The way Bockhorst was getting beaten like he stole

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 7:05 PM
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It must be snowing in heII. Absolutely agree.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

emoji_events [7]
Sep 19, 2021, 2:53 PM
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@davidhood

There is no perfect defensive scheme. It is a numbers game. I understand that you prepare for your opponents base defense and have to adjust as necessary. Against UGA and GT there seemed to be an inability to adjust schematically. People are caught up on the Jimmy’s and Joe’s; however, this is an Xs and Os problem. Is the coaching staff not ability to identify and attack vulnerabilities because the players aren’t prepared to do so or are they not finding paths for success on the fly.

Example - GT ran cloud coverage. We didn’t anticipate it because it isn’t the normal structure. However, cloud has 2 structural weaknesses and 1 potential matchup problem.
1) interior runs
2) flood concepts with routes
3) beating the DB that has the deep half of the field to a deep corner (could use Ladson’s speed)

Why wasn’t there more 2) and 3)? Sorry I don’t have a pithy question for you... but maybe food for thought.

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Greats Points


Sep 19, 2021, 3:16 PM
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DJ rarely puts the ball within the wide receivers catch radius eliminating the implementation of numbers 2 and 3. The RPO game is not suited for someone of DJ’s statue, it should be a very limited component of the offense.

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Re: Greats Points


Sep 19, 2021, 7:09 PM
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There were quite a few times he should have kept the ball and ran. He finally did in the 2nd half and had some nice runs. Not sure if he gained some confidence/light went on, or if they were called runs.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game


Sep 19, 2021, 2:59 PM
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When teams become predictable they become easier to beat! The coaches admitted that GT came into the game with a new approach. It worked for them and it can work for Clemson.

There was a time when Clemson could line up and play with any team. This team CAN NOT do that.

The Wolfpack will watch a ton of film this week and have a great plan to beat the team that GT played Saturday. Probably be a good idea to show some NEW things Saturday in Raleigh. I think Clemson will line up and try to outplay the Wolfies. That may work!!!!

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Not having a true slot receiver is a gaping

[4]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:00 PM
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hole right now. Those guys have run the slants and skinny posts for 14 years.

Without that you have to adjust. Two TE? Also puts an extra blocker for the run. Lay is bigger than some OT's weve had. And they look to be the ones who will have to open up the middle of the field without a slot guy.

If we can open up the middle, the boundaries will also open up. Would help if Galloway could remember how to catch the ball

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

emoji_events [7]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:00 PM
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If “best” truly is the standard, how does Caldwell still have a job?

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I couldn’t agree more! ??

[2]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:04 PM
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You hit on almost every one of my observations.

I realize there are challenges on the o line and DJ and receivers not being trusted yet and thst waters down play calling. However, a shotgun snap 4-5 yards into the end zone only to have the RB run into a packed middle defensive line? Come on coaches, you have gotta be smarter than that. ?????

The turnovers have to stop! The missed passes have to get corrected! You must score in the red zone when you have sustained drives!

Come on guys… LET’S GO!

I would like to see the coaching staff being more upset. More blunt with their dissatisfaction. Why are they not pissed after games like this?

You can bet ha NC State will borrow GTechs D scheme. If our O coaches can’t figure out how to make adjustments better against so called “surprising” schemes, then that doesn’t speak well of them. And why have they not anticipated theses different schemes and game planned for them when they see them occurring?

TE has been the O coordinator for way too long to be caught this flat footed. We have to be missing something. Something is going on here that we are just not seeing. And it does seem odd this offense decline seems to have coincided with Jeff Scott leaving. ??

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Re: I couldn’t agree more! ??


Sep 19, 2021, 6:21 PM
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Probably more about Brad leaving. Remember who used to sit beside Tony in the booth.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

[4]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:04 PM
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Why does our defense do a better job of recruiting and being consistently great and our offense does not? Particularly oline.

2021 white level member flag link

Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


The defense has not been great since 2018

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:16 PM
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until this year. Statistically they were against the ACC, but when up against elite offenses in the playoffs they were thrashed.

BV did his best coaching job since being here when he lost all those DL, made a major schematic adjustment, and made Isaiah Simmons the focal point. Worked until we played LSU. Offense has to do the same this year

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Re: Some thoughts on the game


Sep 19, 2021, 4:00 PM
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True statement........and it has always been that way.

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Mr. Bockhurst

[2]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:08 PM
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Spends the majority of games on the ground. Let’s focus on staying upright before yelling at his teammates.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:20 PM
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Can only play backups with a lead. We struggled to win and never had enough lead for backups. TE is new with te's . True but how are they playing any different than previous years? You have one who will block one who thinks he should be catching passes but drops them often.

Seeing regression at wr and qb. And this wussie lack of drive to impose your will on the D makes me so mad. Grow a pair and go after somebody for a change. They were squatting, they had 8 in the box, wah wah wah. Make a darn play. Knock somebody on their behind. SHow some backbone.

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Good post. My attitude is similar, I don’t think it’s cool to call out particular

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:22 PM
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Players or coaches. But at the same time it is obvious something needs to get better. I do hope that Dabo doesn’t always need softball questions and that he would seriously answer what he thinks needs to change going forward. Two of the things I really liked about this game offensively was DJs pass to the middle of the field to Ross. If I remember correctly he got rid of the ball quick and threw it to where only Ross could catch it and he did. The other thing I liked was that DJ seemed to run harder and when he hit the d he got a couple of more yards on top of it before he went down. These were positives. Still some missed passes and don’t know when it’s dj or when it’s on the receiver.

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Re: No Clemson Didn't Really Take What GT Gave Them ---

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:32 PM
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The O-line did somewhat better with pass protection. Run blocking is still a mess. Lyn J got manhandled and embarrassed. Shipley was able to squeeze and squirt his way here and there but the holes need to be opened up like it was on that drive where he first scored yesterday.

I agree with everything about running the slants...digs....and could have ran Shipley and Lyn J on some draw plays if GT was going to drop 8 as well.

I know you don't want to show too much but we are having trouble running what is there. If you show what you really want to show....well guess what...we will still need more plays to come up with after defenses call themselves locking down on what you just newly released.

Venables too has to keep coming up with stuff to throw off other offenses and it shows. It seems like Elliott...and I like the guy...but it seems like he is saying "" I'm just going to add 6 to 10 new plays this season and thats it. "" He is not grinding like Venables does.

I'm sure opposing defenses don't recognize what plays we ran back in 2011...2013 or 2015.
Elliott could combine some of those and make other plays off of them. I'm no coach...but I can be creative.....LOL.

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Need the quick smaller WR on the field. No Amari this year

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:37 PM
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hurst. Spector? Stellato? Maybe Will Taylor? Need the dude that finds that hole and is a speed problem on a crossing route. Might open things up a bit and give DJ an someone to hit quickly.

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Re: Need the quick smaller WR on the field. No Amari this year

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 7:35 PM
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Exactly. I've been saying this for two years. And even Amari was no Renfrow. I would just add that we need a Tight end that can catch and have a few plays a game designed to go to him. You know the plays. The one where the linebacker thinks the TE is blocking for a running play and the TE sneaks in behind him when he comes in to stop the run for a 15 yard catch and run.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

emoji_events [7]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:38 PM
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I think you hit on an overlooked aspect of the coaching staff that has lead to most of the problems so far (IMHO), too many former Clemson guys on the coaching staff. Too much "like-minded" thinking on offense. We are in a big time need of a fresh look from the outside. There is too much "this has been successful in the past" mentality in offensive game planning and development.
Another aspect is who we recruit. We now seem to only go after the "milk n' cookies" type of kids, placing character and faith over potential performance and development. Not that this is a bad thing, but we do need a few "dogs" with meaner temperaments than those on the current roster. Not saying we go get trouble makers and kids who won't go to class, but less of the momma's boys and more of the daddy's boys.

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^^^^ here’s the winner


Sep 19, 2021, 5:35 PM
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There are coaches out there that didn’t graduate Clemson.

Turnover might be a bad word in sports but can be a good word in staffing

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Re: Some thoughts on the game


Sep 19, 2021, 7:50 PM
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Yes. It's kind of like watching that TV show Airplane disasters. Several episodes show an Asian or Middle Eastern airline crash. Wherein the co-pilot is submissive to the pilot in those cultures and it would be dishonorable to question the pilots if you suspect an error in judgement or a miscalculation. As if it were better in those cultures to let the plane crash into a mountain than for a subordinate to bruise the ego of the pilot who had probably gotten his job due to nepotism.

Maybe that is what is going on with Clemson's offense. Nobody on the staff wants to rock the boat and put their job on the line. I hope Dabo is not like that. I know he is like that with the players. But I don't know how he is with the staff.

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Serious question David...

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:54 PM
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Your are around the team and complex a lot. DJ seems to be off and not in sync with his receivers. Examples are the INT at UGA and the wide open stop-and-go you mention. We are not seeing successful 50:50 ball throws or back shoulder. Deshaun and Trevor always talked about all he work they put in with receivers in the off season to perfect that game. Deshaun often said he would just look at Mike Williams and basically audible to the play. I’m other words, they saw the same thing and were on the same page. From what you’ve seen and heard, do you think DJ worked as much with the receivers in the offseason as QB’s before him? If not was that impacted by Covid or NIL or what? Interested to hear your perspective.

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Re: Serious question David...


Sep 19, 2021, 4:06 PM
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If someone wrote you a check for a $million that you did nothing for, your attitude would change, too.

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Cloud coverage is C3

[4]
Sep 19, 2021, 3:58 PM
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Using 1CB and both SS me FS. This ain’t rocket science. GT rushed four most plays leaving four underneath. Should be easy to scheme effectively and is not something nobody has ever seen. Most teams employ this (or Sky meaning 2CB and 1S) weekly at some point.

I think some ego and arrogance and complacency has set in within the program. TE is out of his league, at least at this stage of his career.

With all the “great” WR we have, can no one know where to run. This will not be popular but Ross is looking like he is overrated. No explosion or burst and he hasn’t made many tough catches in a long time. Galloway is so soft he should look to Charmin for an NIL contract. Neither he not Davis will block, although Davis will catch the tough passes.

Offense is broken and Dabo is mainly to blame. I’m quite certain he doesn’t see it though so this is going to be a rough year. Maybe DRad will show some strength and push Dabo to make some changes. Not holding my breath though.

The bright side is SPiers might go first round as he will have to punt 6-8 times a game and should have some good stats!

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young coaches - Streeter - I am sure he has been a

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 4:00 PM
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good coach and is learning - but being QB coach at a place like Clemson that gets 5 star recruits, TL, Watson - whatever their star rating was - they are WAY BETTER than Streeter ever was

We should have an EXPERIENCED QB COACH back there developing talent and adding to the play calls.

learning on the job at this position to me is treacherous. Why don't we have an NFL experienced ANALYST helping our your coaches ????


get some gray hairs and PAY THEM - let the young coaches get the credit - whatever it takes - who cares.

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This sounds like when people wanted the fat guy

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 4:25 PM
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from Maryland over Morris. Streeter has been coaching going on 20 years. Was QB coach and OC in FCS. Been QB coach here since December 2014. He's the son of a coach. How much experience you want?

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Chas Southern, Liberty, Richmond - is NOT top shelf norNFL

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 4:44 PM
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experience

I think he is a great coach -- I think it's time to get MORE EXPERIENCE at HIGH PROFILE schools or maybe NFL QB coaching experience.

It's just an idea ....

Watson and TL have perhaps covered up some things

CLEARLY something is OFF with the current QB situation - 1 passing touchdown through 3 games against 2 terrible teams is NOT gonna get it done.


We CLEARLY NEDD MORE PASSING Touchdowns withe NFL talent on our team... ....

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At what point do the players have to own it?

[4]
Sep 19, 2021, 5:07 PM
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Step up and make plays? DW and TL didnt have any issues with Streeter. Even Bryant did what he was asked to do, limited as he was.

Coached are going to get scrutinized, it's part of the job. But they're only as good as the guys they have. A lot of our guys have come in with big reputations but have shown little production. We've seen this before. Guys like Charone Peak, Powell last year, Heck, Steve Fuller took a full two years to get it.

DJ's struggles are on him as the coach can only coach. He needs a confidence building game. Hopefully it happens this week. We've been blessed with a ton of guys who have come in and everything clicked, but that's not the case with most guys. They take their lumps and mature. It just stands out more at QB

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Re: At what point do the players have to own it?

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 7:57 PM
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I agree with you and liked your posts. But then that would be a recruiting problem, right? We are recruiting players that are not as good as advertised. Or as good as we were thought. We don't even have a starting receiver that I could honestly say is a speed burner. They are all tall and lanky at 6 foot 3 inches and taller. 50/50 jump ball type receivers. We have nobody that can run a skinny post or a catch a slant pass and then just outrun the D-backs. And we have not had much time on most plays to allow the 3.5 seconds or more that it takes to throw the 50/50 jump ball or deep routes.

What do you think?

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Agree for the most part


Sep 19, 2021, 9:31 PM
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Remember when Dabo was always ribbed for his "5 hearts?" Several of those guys turned in to outstanding players. They were effort guys, glue guys, chemistry guys. We seem to be lacking those. Skalski is one. Turner, but he really hasnt played yet. Can't name one on offense. When you think back on guys like Grisham, Humphries, Renfrow, none of those guys were highly recruited. But they had a skillset our offense greatly misses. Spector could be that guy if he ever gets healthy.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

emoji_events [6]
Sep 19, 2021, 4:15 PM
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Yes, I agree changes need to be made (not players and coaches). Maybe the RPO and allowing WRs to change routes based on what they see is getting too cute and confusing DJ more than we think.

1. Totally agree Ross has got to move back outside to his natural position. They need Spector back or try Taylor and Stellato at slot. I know there is not a Renfro or Rodgers at slot this year but Stellato is a true slot and top 120 player from a passing high school program.

2. Take the "P" out of RPO for a while and let DJ give the ball to the RB or pull it and run based on the DE. Call run and pass plays straight up.

3. Why do we keep seeing and hearing about receivers not being where they are supposed to be or making wrong reads. Take away the route change option and run set routes until the offense matures. Did DW have to worry about where Mike Williams was down the sideline or on a post? Did TL worry about where Tee Higgins or Amari Rodgers were supposed to be on the sideline or post or seam? NO, or they could see the adjustments quicker. Take the indecision out of it while the offense is developing.

4. DJ has the arm and talent that he doesn't need to sit in the pocket 4 or 5 seconds waiting on receivers to come open to make a pass down the field. He can put some air under the ball and throw the receiver open. But to make it work, go back to #3. The WRs need to stay on route and DJ needs to know where they are or are going to be.

5. Don't forget that currently the OL does not have a true center starting. Bockhorst is a guard trying to play center. How this program got in this situation, I don't know. Dabo needs to take this as a opportunity to improve OL recruiting for the future.

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Best post on this thread right here ??????***


Sep 19, 2021, 6:04 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on the game

emoji_events [6]
Sep 19, 2021, 4:22 PM
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Why don’t you ask Dabo any of those questions David?

Why is the media so scared of his temper tantrums when he gets asked uncomfortable, hard questions?

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Spot on with your thoughts. Question based on Day’s comment

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 4:34 PM
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that he took playcalling away from Coombs based on clear issues with their defense? Do you see Dabo potentially doing that with TE, even privately, if the offense continues to flounder? Years ago it was rumored Brad Scott took over playcalling from one of our former OCs, but TB kept it quiet to protect the coaches’ dignity. I know Dabo is, essentially, blaming players and opposing team for the abysmal offense, but it is clear the OC’s plan/playcalling is severely lacking.

Thanks.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

[2]
Sep 19, 2021, 4:45 PM
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Thanks David for your thoughts.

Venables is earning his paycheck and has this D running on all cylinders. They play as a team and work to win as a team. They’re carrying the entire team right now.

The offense is the exact opposite. They’re not in unison. They look lost. From DJ, the OL, the WRs, and the RBs, Shipley the exception.
This is all on coaching, Dabo included. Fans want to hear they realize the problems and will address them and fix them.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game


Sep 19, 2021, 4:49 PM
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Oh yeah, I forgot Tight Ends! Go figure…of course they’ve been easily overlooked for awhile now.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 8:09 PM
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That is what I don't understand with this offense.

With any defense they are reacting to the offense. The offense knows what they are going to do and then the defense has to react to what the offense is doing or showing them. So, in reality it should be much more difficult to be a defensive coordinator than an Offensive coordinator. But with our team it's the opposite. Even with opposing defenses having to react to our offensive play calling they seem to know what we are going to do more than our offensive weapons know. It's like we know what we are going to do but can't do it. WHY? That's the million dollar question.

I have my suspicions that I've posted in other topics and on this one.

Bad QB play. Bad route running. Dropped balls. Fumbles.Etc..

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We are now reduced to where we are calling a "scared" game


Sep 19, 2021, 5:15 PM
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on offense. I believe the phrase is playing in a phone booth. I don't care if it is risky or not you have to be more aggressive on offense. You aren't playing Georgia's defense anymore.

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Agree with everything you said! And if we can see it

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 5:22 PM
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why is Tony Elliott still in his highly paid position, unable or unwilling to adjust In-Game?

Also respect for not trashing players. Everything I keep seeing is on the coaches.

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Agree with you on the offense. We are missing so many basics

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 6:31 PM
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that it just makes you scratch your head. Where is the under center snap? Where is the counter? Where is the power off-tackle? Why do we run the ball either to the A gap or on a jet sweep?

And you're right about the basic, quick hitting routes. We just never use them for some reason.

One note: Ngata and others looked like they ran the wrong routes a lot yesterday. Where is the WR coaching?

Our offense looks lost out there a lot of the time. Hiring past players and promoting from within is fine, to an extent. We have to stop the on the job training for critical coaching positions.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 6:32 PM
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I would love to see Tim Bourret’s stats on this anemic offense and the last year that Clemson had an offense this bad.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 7:11 PM
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Pretty good take and I totally agree about Ross being back on the outside. Maybe occasionally line him up at slot but his home should definitely be at one of the two outer positions.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game


Sep 19, 2021, 7:11 PM
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Pretty good take and I totally agree about Ross being back on the outside. Maybe occasionally line him up at slot but his home should definitely be at one of the two outer positions.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game


Sep 19, 2021, 8:13 PM
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I agree. But my guess is that Ross is the only receiver we have that knows what to do at that position. It's a very important position. We have a guy or two on the bench that I think could do it but they don't play unless we are up by 21 points or more. But out of all the starters it would fit Ladson the best.

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Re: Some thoughts on the game


Sep 19, 2021, 7:37 PM
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“ There is a part of me that also wonders if there is a lack of continuity on the offensive staff. Spiller is new. Grish in his second year. Elliott is in his first year at TE. And as much as you love the Clemson "family" aspect, maybe it's good to sometimes go out of the family and make hires, get some fresh, creative ideas. Change things up and don't let things get stale.”

Bingo.

Feels like a 2010 moment where we went and got Chad Morris.

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More like...when we went and got Venables!***


Sep 19, 2021, 8:51 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on the game

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 8:04 PM
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Something is seriously wrong with the offense It seems to me that our scheme has gotten stale and defenses have caught up to us This showed up the last two years in the playoffs . Due to our rebuilding on offense and not having a generational QB we are struggling Brad Scott was a brilliant OFF CORD who was supplying great help to Jeff and Tony I believe Jeff was more creative and thinking on his feet than Tony We are really missing the Scott Family It’s obvious to everyone that our O line continues to struggle but I think DJ may be the biggest problem of all as the coaches keep the playbook simple as they don’t seem to trust him and he is not seeing what is going on out there and is not accurate enough on passing Praying we get better soon as we could lose this one at NC State if Dabo does not get this thing figured out

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