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Orange Immortal [67936]
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Scripture for the day ....
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Oct 15, 2025, 1:32 PM
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Mark 10:18: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
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Re: Scripture for the day ....
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Oct 15, 2025, 2:40 PM
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I think this verse came from a camp (including maybe Jesus himself) that saw Jesus not as God but as a man or divine son, although there are other verses that seem to indicate Jesus is God.
It's confounding to try and reconcile the verse you posted with,
"Before Abraham was, I AM."
Did Jesus think he was God, or not? He seems to say both. The I AM verse is from John though, which has a bit of a different tenor than the synoptic gospels.
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You would think if Jesus claimed to be God, surely it would have been noted
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Oct 15, 2025, 3:06 PM
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by anyone who heard it, yet there is no mention of Jesus himself actually making that claim in the earliest (synoptic) gospels. It's not until much later, in John, where there is record of Jesus making that claim. Of course, one can project their own biases and predetermined beliefs onto the texts and make it say anything they want it to. It seems more like an idea that developed over time.
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Re: You would think if Jesus claimed to be God, surely it would have been noted
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Oct 15, 2025, 4:13 PM
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I kind of get the feeling from Jesus’s own words that he definitely saw himself as the Son of God and divine either by birth or adoption. He does go to great lengths to separate himself from “The Father.” None come to the Father but through me, the Father is greater than I, etc. So he sees himself as different in many verses. And yes, I do think that the nature, or extent, of his perceived identity changed over time. It would make a great investigation to see that evolution across the gospels. It’s kinda notable that the first person to call Jesus the Messiah was not Jesus, but John the Baptist, if I recall. I’d have to check that, but I think JTB is huge in the story, and a lot more important, and maybe influential, than people think. Jesus never even preached until he met JTB, and then he preached what JTB preached…not faith, which I presume was implicit, but rather, repentance.
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National Champion [7527]
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According to what the Bible teaches Jesus taught his apostles that He was God...
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Oct 16, 2025, 8:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Scripture for the day .... ] |
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early in His 3 year ministry. As you wrote, Jesus claim to be the great 'I AM,' happened. He knew His fate early in life, IDK when but I believe The Baptist knew before Jesus ministry began.
I think it would be a great justice to you if you watch The Chosen on Amazon. It's a close to the Bible as a man can put on screen. It explores some of what is strongly implied in the scripture and brings the Gospel to light. It isn't exhaustive but it's close.
The miracles Jesus did were all written in the prophesies. Most folk, even Christians who have been saved for decades don't see that. Those who knew the law either by sitting in class or having the reading skills to read it for themselves recognized the prophsies fulfilled. The Scribes and Pharisees knew it better than any.
The writers of The Chosen were true scholars and the best I can tell rewrote the story of Jesus' ministry without flaw or spin, it's near as pure as the Word itself.
I think the more one knows the Bible the more he will get from the story while even a newbie who casually reads the Scripture will delight in seeing it on screen due to the clarity which it brings.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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That is your interpretation, which assigns meaning based on your predetermined
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Oct 16, 2025, 12:04 PM
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beliefs. Nowhere until John does Jesus himself say he is God.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [104989]
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Why did the pharisee freak out when Jesus said, "I am?"
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Oct 16, 2025, 12:56 PM
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That was the holy name God used when Moses ask Him 'Who shall I say sent me?' That is exactly what Jesus said before the Pharisees which got Him arrested by the Temple guard and led to His crucifixion.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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Where does Jesus say that?***
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Oct 16, 2025, 2:06 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [104989]
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John 8:
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Oct 20, 2025, 5:28 AM
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"58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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I guess you missed this:
Oct 20, 2025, 10:25 PM
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You would think if Jesus claimed to be God, surely it would have been noted 1
Oct 15, 2025, 3:06 PM
Reply
by anyone who heard it, yet there is no mention of Jesus himself actually making that claim in the earliest (synoptic) gospels. It's not until much later, in John, where there is record of Jesus making that claim. Of course, one can project their own biases and predetermined beliefs onto the texts and make it say anything they want it to. It seems more like an idea that developed over time.
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Re: According to what the Bible teaches Jesus taught his apostles that He was God...
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Oct 16, 2025, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to According to what the Bible teaches Jesus taught his apostles that He was God... ] |
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Thanks for the heads up, 88. I will check The Chosen out.
I'm becoming really intrigued with the prophecies in the Bible. First, because there are so many, and secondly, because so many, if not all, apparently apply to people and places before the 1st century and Jesus.
It makes me feel like the Jews saw history as cyclic, or at least, prophecy was "re-usable" based on the current crisis the Jewish nation was in at the time.
And there are patterns. For instance, there's the "march of the messiah" - that's my invented term, btw  ">, where a savior leads the 10 tribes back from Assyria to Jerusalem, or the Exiles back from Babylon to Jerusalem, or the meek, humble, and downtrodden to the gates of Jerusalem.
So much prophecy is framed in terms of "This is the guy who will save us. This is what he will look like."
And so much of that prophecy revolves around the national disasters of being wiped out by Assyria, and being wiped out by Babylon. The Hebrews write as much about those two events as we write about the American Revolution and the Civil War. Two nation changing events that were burned in their collective memories forever.
As you said, it's maybe not something a casual reader might observe, and it's not what is focused on in Sunday School or Sunday Service, but those two events are the backdrop, I think, to what these ancients thought about every day.
It's as if America were living under modern Roman occupation, and asking "When will Washington arrive? When will Lincoln arrive? Who will be the next Washinton or Lincoln, and how will we know? What will be the signs? What will be the prophecy?
It seems that if all scripture is useful, all prophecy was driven by hope, and longing, for someone to change the Jew's terrible circumstances at the time it was written. There is a strong, strong, historical element to it. Which is why it grabs my attention, I guess.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [104989]
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Re: According to what the Bible teaches Jesus taught his apostles that He was God...
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Oct 16, 2025, 1:01 PM
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As discussed here previously, the 400+ years of silence from God led to the COI being drawn toward focus on a conquering Messiah. It was a popular message which was most likely the central topic of study. We have a group doing that today, I was once a part of it. We were obsessed with Jesus second coming as if the more we knew about details the quicker He would return.
The book series 'Left Behind,' was the highlight of those years but I'd grown out of prophesy study long before the series was produced. I read it anyway and relived memories of my youth. It's highly entertaining, btw. The movies suck.
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Re: According to what the Bible teaches Jesus taught his apostles that He was God...
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Oct 16, 2025, 3:49 PM
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That 400 years of silence is a good topic 88, though I think it might be a bit deceptive.
There was a period of silence, to be sure, but I think texts were written in that period, but were re-dated, added to existing works, or just flat out ignored due to political reasons.
The political history of the time looks a bit like this:
722 BCE - Assyria hauls off the 10 tribes
701 BCE - King Hezekiah saves Jerusalem and Judah from Assyrian invasion
…lots of writing about those two events by Isaiah, Micah, Hosea, and Amos
586 BCE - Babylon destroys what’s left of Israel and hauls off the remnants as Exiles
539 BCE – The Exiles come home
…lots of writing about those two events by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Habbakuk, Obediah
300 BCE – Alex the Great and the Greeks show up
300 BCE – Alex’s General Ptolemy rules Israel for a while
200 BCE – Ptolemy’s successor Seleucius rules Israel for a while
…this is where it gets interesting. Because although maybe no new full books were written in this time, things were added to existing books…like to Isaiah, or Daniel, or Ezekiel. So while it *appears* there was no new writing, that’s because it was attributed to other existing books for political safety, or similarity of content.
150 BCE – Antiochus IV
…this is another interesting moment, because stuff was definitely written here, but it’s not included in the Protestant Bible…the Maccabees.
That’s because although it’s about the rescuing of Israel from Antiochus IV, but the wrong people came to the rescue. It would be as if the Canadians rescued America during the Revolutionary War.
Well hell, if I were in that position I’m not going to publish how Canada saved us…Americans like Ethan Allen and John Hancock and Patrick Henry saved America, not Bob and Doug McKenzie.
So stuff WAS written in that 400 year gap, it just got added to existing works, or ignored, because the wrong people wrote it.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [104989]
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I'd recommend you read it for yourself and ask God what it means.
Oct 20, 2025, 5:37 AM
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That's what I do, and what I've done for about 50 years. Reading what others think about the Bible can be interesting and sometimes enlightening but there's nothing like God showing you exactly what He wants you to know.
I don't know it all, I understand I come across like that but what I want is a little more each day so this time of the day is my time with God, 4-6am. I've other things to do to feel productive later in the day but this is the best part of every day for me.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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I have always done that.
Oct 20, 2025, 10:30 PM
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And he has shown me that people have twisted his message into a religion that presented a false, man-made version of him.
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: Scripture for the day ....
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Oct 15, 2025, 3:38 PM
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Jesus was simply asking the man if he thought He was God.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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No he wasn't.***
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Oct 15, 2025, 4:09 PM
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: No he wasn't.***
Oct 17, 2025, 5:47 PM
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Yes He was.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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No he wasn't.
Oct 20, 2025, 10:34 PM
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See how stupid this is? I'm fine just admitting that we can't know, and it's fine if we derive a different meaning from it. Or we can both keep pretending and claiming that we know.
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: No he wasn't.***
Oct 19, 2025, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to No he wasn't.*** ] |
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10:18 Why do you call me good? Jesus challenges the ruler to think through the implications of ascribing to Him the title “good.” Since only God is intrinsically good, was he prepared to acknowledge Jesus’ deity? By this query Jesus does not deny His deity; on the contrary, He affirms it.
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Game Day Hero [4151]
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Re: No he wasn't.***
Oct 19, 2025, 12:30 PM
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That makes absolutely no sense.
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: No he wasn't.***
Oct 19, 2025, 1:48 PM
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Makes a lot of sense.
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Game Day Hero [4151]
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Re: No he wasn't.***
Oct 19, 2025, 4:06 PM
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It’s weird that you spend so much time ridiculing others for their beliefs and lifestyle but then say nobody is good.
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Re: No he wasn't.***
Oct 19, 2025, 7:02 PM
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No one is good in and of their own power and own works.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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Why did God not want us to be good?***
Oct 21, 2025, 9:09 AM
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: Why did God not want us to be good?***
Oct 21, 2025, 10:53 AM
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Good in this passage means perfect. He was and is the only perfect. His glory is displayed in His wrath. His glory is displayed in His grace. Our imperfection shows His glory.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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Why didn't it just say "perfect" then, instead of leaving it open to
Oct 21, 2025, 11:17 AM
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interpretation by a bunch of bias filled people with limited mental abilities? The absurdity that God cloaked such an important message so that it requires deep understanding and interpretation, which honest, sincere people could very easily misunderstand, is laughable, and shows how desparate people are to have something to believe to ease their fear and guilt. They'll make up and believe anything.
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: Why didn't it just say "perfect" then, instead of leaving it open to
Oct 21, 2025, 7:02 PM
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It was originally written in Greek. Even in English the fact Jesus says no one is good but God , clues you in that the word translated good is not your average English usage of good.
Systematic theology.
Line upon line. Precept upon precept.
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Game Day Hero [4151]
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Re: Why didn't it just say "perfect" then, instead of leaving it open to
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Oct 21, 2025, 7:31 PM
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“Systematic theology”
AKA making the bible say what you want it to say.
You start with the premise that Jesus is god, that the bible as a whole points to him, and you interpret every word in light of those starting points.
You can do the exact same thing with Muhammad and the Koran.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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That's exactly what he's doing.***
Oct 21, 2025, 8:29 PM
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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National Champion [7527]
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Game Day Hero [4151]
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Re: Why didn't it just say "perfect" then, instead of leaving it open to
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Oct 22, 2025, 9:32 AM
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It's exactly what I said it is.
You start with the end goal, and interpret everything in light of that.
You do not let each individual biblical writer speak for themselves. You make their words fit what you already believe.
Problem is each writer had their own perspective and opinion, and did not write to be included in the "bible", which is not a book but a collection of books.
We can clearly see that the bible was shaped and molded to fit certain doctrines.
The Johannine Comma for example found in 1 John 5 was a later addition by a scribe to affirm the doctrine of the trinity.
Because of textual criticism, we know that this was not original.
How much more was added or subtracted before manuscripts starting popping up? I guess we will never know.
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Game Day Hero [4151]
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Re: Scripture for the day ....
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Oct 15, 2025, 5:10 PM
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We’ve had lengthy threads on this subject with CUintulsa® showing his butt multiple times.
Any who…Mark’s Jesus is completely different from the one presented by the time you get to John, who most of Christian theology is based off of along with Paul.
The Jesus of the synoptic gospels seems to be lost to history.
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: Scripture for the day ....
Oct 22, 2025, 5:02 AM
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I bet you don't tell your pastor he should only preach from The synoptic gospels.
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Orange Immortal [67936]
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He didn't say that. The point is (as you know) that Jesus's claims to be
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Oct 22, 2025, 9:11 AM
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God were likely added later, in John. For some reason, the authors of the first 3 gospels didn't mention it, which, of course, they certainly would have had Jesus actually said that. But of course, that's only when we apply reason and common sense. The record we have of Jesus in the bible reflects the different perspectives and agendas of the men who wrote them (and perhaps subsequent scribes and editors) at the expense of truthful, historical accuracy. When we understand that, we still find a powerful message in the story of Jesus.
Now, if you start committed to the idea that the bible is the literal inerrant word of God, then you will inevitably find "evidence" to support that view.
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Game Day Hero [4151]
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Re: He didn't say that. The point is (as you know) that Jesus's claims to be
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Oct 22, 2025, 9:22 AM
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The ironic thing about it, I think you and I have more respect for the biblical writers than he does.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [104989]
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Are you and I good on the concept that Jesus could read the minds and hearts...
Oct 16, 2025, 8:17 AM
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of all? We need to be clear on that so if you're doubting the Bible teaches it then I need to provide enough scripture for you to understand that principle. I'm not asking if you believe it but that you believe the Bible presents it. If we can establish that we can proceed.
I think that's a fair ask of me since you introduced the Bible. Do you agree?
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