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All-In [30114]
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Religious Pron - Ancient Gods 101
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Mar 1, 2023, 8:54 PM
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We’ve covered a lot of ground so far, across both time and space. And if you caught the post on Time Dilation, you know that’s personal time, not shared time.
We’ve gone from Egypt,
to Sumer,
through ABaCAB,
to Persia,
through Greece,
and on into the beginnings of the Roman Empire.
All the while following these little guys, and what was happening in and outside of their country, throughout history.
It’s sort of been like having our own time machine.
And we’ve still not even covered the other half of the world yet. But that will wait.
Right now it’s time for a little intermission in our wordly travels.
Before we move on, let’s finally take an in-depth look at the really fun stuff, what all these folks in the Near East believed.
All those are solid, solid beliefs. But I’m talking about other kinds of beliefs.
Some of man’s beliefs go back WAY before written language, which is only about 5,500 years old. The idea of an afterlife, for instance, is pretty old. Graves containing trinkets and personal items have been found dating as far back as 30,000 BCE. Those buried items would seem to indicate a belief in an afterlife, where the dead might want or need their worldly possessions again.
This 30,000 year old grave is in Sunghir, Russia, near Moscow. The guy is decked out with over 5,000 carved stones, ivory, fox teeth, and whatever else was valuable to him and whoever buried him at the time.
You can’t take it with you, but that won’t stop people from trying.
Death: Follow me, to eternity…..
Dinner Party: Shall we take our cars?
Aside from material wealth measured in shell necklaces and ivory chotskies, no one is entirely sure what people 30,000 years ago believed in. But I have an idea of what else they thought about a lot of the time. Bootay.
Baby Got Back, 30,000 BCE.
This is the Venus of Willendorf, Austria, also from about 30 millennia ago. Fully detailed, if you’ll take a close look. It’s thought the figurine was associated with a fertility or mother goddess. Folks got the miraculous quality of birth pretty early on in history.
The idea, or understanding, of something beyond our senses…lets call it God for convenience, goes back to the beginnings of civilization itself, and likely further, as best as we can tell. For instance, the oldest known altars go back to 9,000 BCE.
Aerial of the excavated site at Gobekli Tepe (Potbelly Hill), in Turkey.
Close up of one of the monolithic altars
A sculpted lion and boar on the site
Without writing though, it’s hard to tell if these particular ancients were worshiping gods, or nature, or what. And if they considered the three to be separate, or the same. It’s also unclear if there was an astrological element to the site, as is suspected at other locations like Stonehenge (3000 BCE) in England.
Or at still other locations like this one in Portugal (6,000 BCE).
They certainly had an awareness of the big celestial movie, playing out night after night after night above their heads, in exactly the same way every time. But what did they make of it before written history? All we can do is guess.
Once we developed writing and man could record his thoughts, his beliefs became much more clear to us. And it appears that the very first recorded understandings of the universe, and of nature, and of gods, were framed in terms that man could directly relate to – himself.
Just like all politics is local, it appears that all religion was local too – at least in its origins. As man tried to comprehend his world, the things that he could control, he understood. And the things that he couldn’t control, things that were beyond him, he attributed to “the gods.”
So, there were gods of weather, and wind, and war, and so on. That’s how he saw the universe, and that’s how he wrote it down.
Each major city had a patron god, and that god might wear many hats. For instance, the patron god of Ur was a guy named Nanna. He was god of the moon, and cows, and probably a few other things that fascinated, awed, and confused early man.
You don’t appear before a god without bringing booze. Here a king pours one out the to moon god Nanna. A 40 for my homie.
Back then…
…and now
The earliest descriptions of gods were very human-esque. The gods had families, and relatives, and emotions, and even jobs. They fought each other, they loved each other, they cheated on each other, and they killed each other. They were almost like a parallel existence of supreme beings, beyond the earth. Sort of super humans, but still stuck with all the worst parts of humans.
In fact, the dividing line between men, and gods, has frequently been blurred from time-to-time. All the way from the pharaohs of Egypt, to Caesar, to Mao and Kim.
Mao watching over us from his position in heaven. The tradition of the man-deity lives on.
Top 5 Best Selling Books of All Time (at gunpoint or otherwise)
1.(tie) The Bible/Quotations from Chairman Mao
2. The Koran
3. Poetry from Chairman Mao
4. Selected Articles from Chairman Mao
5. Recipes from Chairman Mao
Not all of these first gods were immortal; some died. They were more powerful than mortals, but nowhere close to being all-powerful. And they each had their limited sphere of influence, like fertility, or farming, or whatever. And there were a lot of them, known as a pantheon. The even got married and had family trees, just like humans.
The idea, or recognition, of a supreme being who ruled over all wouldn’t come along till the pharaoh Akhenaten and his Sun god Aten. That was in Egypt, about 1000 years after the very first gods of Egypt and Mesopotamia.
Aten blessing the pharaoh, his queen, and their three children. The family that prays together stays together. Praise Aten and his warming rays. He gives us light and grows our crops. What a great guy.
But man still had a lot of work to do to understand existence. The two cornerstones of his first attempts, and of all primitive and later ancient religions, were anthropomorphism and animism.
Anthropomorphism is the humanizing of non-human things, like having a God of Love. Love doesn’t exactly have two arms and two legs, but if you anthropomorphize love you get this:
The Goddess Eos.
Yowza.
Eos was one of a group of Greek sex/love gods known as the Erotes. She was the Goddess of Dawn, of Morning, and of Morning Wood.
Her Roman counterpart was Aurora. Schwing! What is it about morning, and sex?
The Erotes were sort of a mini-pantheon of all things love and sex. There were gods of lost love, of reciprocated love, of sweet-talking, of lust, marriage, desire, longing, and just about every other related human emotion in the field of seggzy-time.
Another example of anthropomorphism would be Thor, the Norse God of Thunder. Thunder isn’t human…
But if you give thunder a head of blonde, flowing locks and a human-made, professional-grade hammer, then thunder looks like this:
And now a man can explain, understand, and relate to thunder.
“Thunder is THAT guy, the one with the big hammer that lives in the sky. When I bang my hammer on my anvil it makes big noise. When he bangs his bigger hammer on his bigger anvil it makes bigger noise.” Science!
Closely related to anthropomorphism is animism. Animism gives a spiritual quality to non-human things, like a tree having a soul.
This is the sacred Thimmamma Marimannu, the largest tree in the world, in India. It’s also known as the Great Banyon and is revered in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism.
All one tree
The same tree
Still one tree
These ladies don’t just hug trees, they worship them. That’s animism.
Back in the day, the ancient Israelites had a huge problem with some of them practicing Animism. You simply take a tree, cut it into the shape of a human-like deity, and worship it.
Same thing with golden calves. More animism.
Isaiah railed against animism, too:
“Their land is full of idols; the people worship things they have made with their own hands.” Isaiah 2:8
Animism even had a big revival in the USA in the mid 1970’s.
I’ve fallen prey to the lusty allure of animism myself. My pet rock gets very angry when I don’t polish him regularly, so I’d better hop to it. And my car gives me the evil eye when I don’t wash her just the way she likes it.
And that’s where we’ll stop for now. While I’m indulging in my animism, you can enjoy a little more anthropomorphism with some very humanized, very well-endowed Indian goddesses of love and sex!
Indian gods going at it, in the City of Love, at the Temple of Kajuraho
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Lot o points [163329]
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Will read later, but Cairo has a woody for Giza in that pic***
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Mar 1, 2023, 9:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Re: Religious Pron - Ancient Gods 101
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Mar 2, 2023, 9:32 PM
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" Graves containing trinkets and personal items have been found dating as far back as 30,000 BCE."
That can't be right. The world is only 6,000 years old.
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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Those who believe that are in error.
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Mar 3, 2023, 9:58 AM
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Man is only about 6K years old. No one has an accurate reading on the age of the earth and universe.
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Hall of Famer [24574]
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However all that works together, and if possessions in a
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Mar 3, 2023, 11:00 AM
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grave indicate belief in a permanent soul, that belief and our resistance to it comes from 'the wisest man who ever lived': "He has set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end." We know eternity is there, but because it is the one thing we can't control we rail against it. Seemingly every societal battle now is about that. And we're the minority, so we're moving in the direction of "every man did what was right in his own eyes".
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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My daily read this morning included II Thes.
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Mar 3, 2023, 11:51 AM
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Chapter 2:
"1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
If a man told me that: The Throne of God's Holy Spirit was the heart of man and that man worshiping mankind, esteeming himself and his kind as supreme and that mankind being on the throne of The Holy Spirit was evidence that the end is upon us...I might not believe it but I couldn't argue.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Re: My daily read this morning included II Thes.
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Mar 4, 2023, 8:54 AM
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There’s growing belief and even evidence that the universe is all connected and actually working towards something.
This would seem to make more sense than the worldview of the Abrahamic religions that have humanity pitted against each other in a game of right vs wrong.
I was listening to a podcast yesterday by Ken Wilber who you’ve probably heard of and he was talking about this and how the founders of these religions like Jesus may have actually had a real spiritual awakening that introduced these revolutionary ideas that even their followers experienced, but then the fundamentalist came along and turned it into a belief system.
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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I agree with you.
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Mar 4, 2023, 1:34 PM
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God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit makes no sense to me. There is no way to rationally believe that a God who could design and build this world would have any regard for beings so small and insignificant as man. It's nonsense.
So is love.
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All-In [30114]
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Re: However all that works together, and if possessions in a
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Mar 3, 2023, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to However all that works together, and if possessions in a ] |
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The afterlife is an incredible topic and I plan on a post (or several) on how different religions see it. Every major religion believes an afterlife (except perhaps Buddhism) and teh afterlife directly relates to other topics like the soul, judgement, and eternity.
Buddhism is kinda strange because it turns the very idea of "self" on its head. So if there is no self, in the way we might think of it, the afterlife kind of means nothing.
While most religions think of "self" as an entity that travels to the afterlife in the form of a soul, the Buddhists see "self" as more of a team. Sort of like a task force at work, or a group of doctors and nurses that come together for an operation, or the pit crew at a NASCAR race.
Once the work task, or medical operation, or stock car race, is over (like your earthly life), the team dissolves. So there is no eternal "you" like we think of. The goal of nirvana is to ascend beyond the idea of the self, and realize that we are all a part of a universal god.
It's pretty wild stuff, but not completely different than something like 2 Timothy 1:14
"With the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us, protect the good treasure that has been entrusted to you."
The Buddhist would say that it's just an illusion that the Holy Spirit lives in you. Because there actually is no you. Your ego prevents you from seeing that you are actually a part of god himself. It's definitely a different way of looking at existence.
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Hall of Famer [24574]
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If one assumes, just for the sake of discussion, that there
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Mar 3, 2023, 5:02 PM
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exists an Enemy of man's soul, and that his own genesis was his rebellion against the Creator, and that his hatred of us is due to his hatred of the Creator because of His sacrificial love for us ... that Enemy would be supportive of the Buddhist religion.
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All-In [30114]
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Re: If one assumes, just for the sake of discussion, that there
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Mar 3, 2023, 6:01 PM
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I could see that hypothetical in two different ways...
1) The Enemy would be supportive of Buddhism because the very existence of Buddhism would be an alternative view that would draw people away from the "fight over the soul" view. So, the more people that believe in Buddhism, the less believe in another view of existence.
-or-
2) The Enemy might also hate Buddhism, because Buddhism posits that God is an inherent part of all men. That would leave the Enemy even more alone, isolated, and without God's love. Because instead the Enemy and God both fighting for men's souls, the Enemy would actually be fighting God himself, God being in the form of the many "men" that we think we are.
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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#2 is what I described.
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Mar 3, 2023, 6:56 PM
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When there is no God, as so many believe today, man becomes the supreme being in the universe. The comedy begins when you realize those who refuse to believe in God are looking for life and the truth is out there because so much time, so much space...and all the other rationalization BS they pump.
They are looking for a superior being, someone who can beam them up.
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All-In [30114]
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Re: #2 is what I described.
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Mar 3, 2023, 8:27 PM
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Buddhists don't really think of "man thinking he is a God" in the way we might. Just like Timothy doesn't think of man as a God when he says that God is in all of us - "the Holy Spirit who lives in us."
In the West we tend to think very compartmentally and discretely. There is me, and you, and God, and all three of us are separate entities.
In the East, it's more communal. It's kind of like the elephant in the cave example from Greek Philosophy.
Instead of the three of us (me, you, and God), Buddhism is more like "there is God, and you are his finger, and I am his toe, and someone else is his ear."
But we are all so preoccupied, and ego-driven, and proud of being fingers and toes and ears that we miss the big picture. How wonderful it would be if we all realized we were all a part of something greater than ourselves. That realization would be to achieve the state of Nirvana. To understand the universe, and our place in it.
According to Buddhism, there's not a part of a separate entity (God) in you, like Timothy says. Instead, you are part of a greater entity, and just don't fully realize it until you achieve Nirvana.
It's a subtle difference - is a part of God in you, or are you a part of God? In either interpretation there is a divine element to you, but it's a matter of degrees. Are you a human with a divine component, or are you divine, wrapped in a human covering? Two ways of looking at it.
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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Both.
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Mar 4, 2023, 4:01 PM
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God is a part of me and I'm a part of Him, or will be in glory.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Re: #2 is what I described.
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Mar 4, 2023, 7:37 AM
[ in reply to #2 is what I described. ] |
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I don't have anything to back this up but I would imagine most people who claim to not believe in god are referring to the fundamentalist view of god.
When it comes to a heightened sense of awareness and consciousness, man IS the supreme being in the universe. Look at the things we've done to advance our species WITHOUT the help of a supreme being, unless you think he's helping all those non believing scientists and doctors and entrepreneurs who are advancing our society.
Of course there's no evidence that there is something behind all that, and if we go by ancient religious texts that people claim contain they answer to where we came from and how we got to where we are, we should still be wandering around in the desert like our primitive ancestors did.
If the bible is true, and we were created in a perfect state and the world in a perfect state, why in the world are things getting better? Why are we living longer than ever and doing things we've never done? It should be getting worse...
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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To say all scientist don't believe in God is not accurate.
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Mar 4, 2023, 11:43 AM
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Scientists and Belief | Pew Research Center
"Specifically, more than eight-in-ten Americans (83%) say they believe in God and 12% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Finally, the poll of scientists finds that four-in-ten scientists (41%) say they do not believe in God or a higher power, while the poll of the public finds that only 4% of Americans share this view."
I'd imagine the 41% who say they don't believe in God are doing what you're doing...everything they can to reinforce their disbelief and hold their confidences lest they slip and realize the truth.
Things appear to be getting worse to me because I'm old and don't like change. They may be appear to be getting better to younger generations but that view is a naive as mine at 70. My grandchildren think their PC attitude it straightening out the world, your generation is viewing the world from the 30 to 50 year ages where owning a home, raising children and watching them grow up, which is without any doubt, the very best part of life for it's the years of accomplishment and satisfaction.
Actually, murder, rape, robbery, drugs are still part of man while some other certain evils are present too. Nothing has changed since man fell in the garden. There are still wars, colonials conquering uncivilized people in a struggle for power and people in 3rd world countries are still starving to death.
Your position is that doctors, scientist and entrepreneurs are simply being altruistic. Dood, the lust for power and money is exactly why Fordtunate Son has material to write about. Mankind is exact as it was when God kicked Adam out of Eden.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Re: To say all scientist don't believe in God is not accurate.
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Mar 4, 2023, 3:07 PM
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"Specifically, more than eight-in-ten Americans (83%) say they believe in God and 12% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Finally, the poll of scientists finds that four-in-ten scientists (41%) say they do not believe in God or a higher power, while the poll of the public finds that only 4% of Americans share this view."
I would imagine that people who are interested enough to participate in a poll like this are more likely to believe in god. I don't think I need a link to convince you that church attendance has been plummeting for years.
"I'd imagine the 41% who say they don't believe in God are doing what you're doing...everything they can to reinforce their disbelief and hold their confidences lest they slip and realize the truth."
Or maybe they are just going by the evidence. One of the things, just one, that led me away from belief was the fact that I was constantly at war with science and what we know and are discovering about the world. Pardon me but it seems a bit arrogant to suggest that people who don't believe like you do simply do not want to see truth.
"Things appear to be getting worse to me because I'm old and don't like change. They may be appear to be getting better to younger generations but that view is a naive as mine at 70. My grandchildren think their PC attitude it straightening out the world, your generation is viewing the world from the 30 to 50 year ages where owning a home, raising children and watching them grow up, which is without any doubt, the very best part of life for it's the years of accomplishment and satisfaction.
Actually, murder, rape, robbery, drugs are still part of man while some other certain evils are present too. Nothing has changed since man fell in the garden. There are still wars, colonials conquering uncivilized people in a struggle for power and people in 3rd world countries are still starving to death.
Your position is that doctors, scientist and entrepreneurs are simply being altruistic. Dood, the lust for power and money is exactly why Fordtunate Son has material to write about. Mankind is exact as it was when God kicked Adam out of Eden."
Statistically this is the safest time ever to be alive, and life expectancy is longer than it's ever been, unless you believe ancient stories like that in the bible that claim people were living for hundreds of years. There is no evidence for this that I know of. The child mortality rate was extremely high compared to today, which raises the question of why, if god created the world, he didn't make it give us the knowledge to safely bring children into the world. We figured that out on our own.
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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Re: To say all scientist don't believe in God is not accurate.
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Mar 4, 2023, 3:55 PM
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You're arguing with a study done by secularist?
It's even worse that church attendance falling. Most church goers are motivated by something other than worshiping God but we're talking about professing scientist (whatever that is) and not church goers.
There is scientific evidence that there is no God, that He did not create the universe and did not bring life into it?
I've read that man's knowledge doubles every 25 years. At one time Archimedes proposed:
"Smoke rises because it is comprised of both air and fire, thus it tries to reach the high fire realm, which is also why flames extend upward. ... Archimedes (287-212 BC)"
Archie's legacy is way more important than that theory and I respect him as being one of the all time greats and recognize that his theory on why smoke rose wasn't his finest hour. Such as that were repeated throughout the history of science. Still, I hold science in great esteem.
At the rate our knowledge is increasing the science in another 25 years will look back at us as we look back at the scientific knowledge of King David when he was a simple shepherd boy in the field. Of all that is knowable to mankind what percentage do you think our best scientist have today? You can use scientific notation to respond without typing a ton of zeroes past the decimal point.
Truth is, we ain't all that. People are putting their trust in a moving freight train which is perpetually increasing its speed, one which we have no idea where it's going.
It's a safer world to American because we rule the world. That's debatable knowing that all the money we send to China is being spent on military and economic power. I wouldn't hold out thinking our safety is secure.
FYI:
https://lodestarsolutions.com/keeping-up-with-the-surge-of-information-and-human-knowledge/ How Fast Is Knowledge Doubling? Knowledge Doubling - Have you truly considered what the rate of increase of information and human knowledge? how the future will look concerning analytics?
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Re: To say all scientist don't believe in God is not accurate.
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Mar 4, 2023, 6:10 PM
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It seems like we're just learning more and more about just how volatile and scary the world is.
The funny thing is, all that you just said and there are still people that believe they were living in a better world that was better 50 years ago, but the world has always been a scary place. We have improved significantly in just those 50 years though.
If people had such a narrow view of reality just 50 years ago, believing that they were safe leaving their doors unlocked and windows opened even though statistically they were just as likely as we are today to be a victim of a break in, how narrow do you think it was 1000 years ago or 5000 years ago?
Narrow enough that somebody though a localized flood covered the entire earth.
They thought a hurricane was punishment from god, today we know it's a random event in an unpredictable and dangerous world.
Remember the sunday school tune "he's got the whole world in his hands"? Only a child can believe that.
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Hall of Famer [24574]
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I agree with your observation that mankind is making
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Mar 4, 2023, 10:25 PM
[ in reply to To say all scientist don't believe in God is not accurate. ] |
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no moral progress in spite of the dramatic technological feat of taking 30,000 years to arrive at the internal combustion engine and plastic. Or 5000, take your pick. I imagine the 50,000,000+ citizens killed in this generation by their own communist regimes died happy in the knowledge that their executions were conceived by the higher level thinking of the worker's paradise, and carried out with technologically advanced methods. Died happy, they must have.
What size irony is in committing a known rational fallacy (Appeal To Authority) while pointing out that scientists agree with one's point of view? I don't know, but let's go all in with a whopper: 70-ish% of all Nobel Prize winners are Christians, and most of the others are Jews. Almost all the winners thus believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Conclusion: A rational person might decide that if he's going to side with scientists, he ought to at least side with the better ones. If he's willing to make that kind of rational error, of course. Oh, why not? Go big or go home, I say.
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All-In [30114]
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Re: #2 is what I described.
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Mar 4, 2023, 2:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: #2 is what I described. ] |
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I hate that these great discussions get lost so deep in threads.
The Big Dog
ClemsonTiger1988®
>I don't have anything to back this up but I would imagine most people who claim to not believe in god are referring to the fundamentalist view of god.
This is an interesting point because the more one tries to define God the more ways there are to disagree. If I were to say "There is a God", maybe 95% of the world would say "Sure". But then if I were to try to define God by saying, "He sent Muhammad as his supreme prophet", the suddenly that 95% fractures into only 35% who still agree with me. And if I go further and say "and only Muhammad's kin can lead Islam, then only 20% of that 35% still agree with me, the Shia.
And the same fracturing occurs in every other religion as we try to determine what God is or what he wants. There was an article just yesterday about another church splitting over social issues. It's just a crazy irony that assuming God exists and created all of us with free will and opinions, it's our own efforts to explain him drive us all apart. There is a deeply ingrained element in us that says there is only one right way for anything. That for me to be right someone else must be wrong. But, one could say that's how God made us I suppose. It's just a fascinating condition to me - 95% of the world worshipping God, and hardly anyone agreeing on who or what he is.
>man IS the supreme being in the universe. Look at the things we've done to advance our species WITHOUT the help of a supreme being
This is a whole other strain I'll have to hold off on or this post will never end. Another great topic. For me, this gets into value judgement. When we say "advance" or "improve", that gets back to the relative stuff. Because that's from a human perspective. Is my life better than a bird? It's different, but I'm not sure I can objectively say "better" because that's a relative term. He can fly and I can't. I have to do taxes and he doesn't. Those are two aspects of our existence I would trade with him today if I could.
Now, within the realm of just humans, it might seem that life is improving. But as 88 noted, is out life today, in totality, better than it was 40 years ago? There's better medicine, but what about stress? And some of that better medicine leads to terrible conditions where people might live long beyond when they maybe they even want to. My family had to take my MIL off of life support because machines could have kept her alive even though she was brain dead. She hold them in advance her wishes, but it gets kinda gray as to what is an improvement and what is not.
Our life seems more convenient, perhaps, but is it qualitatively better? Today I have to climb under the house to change some AC filters. I get "improved" central air, but with an old-fashioned window unit I don't have to crawl in the dirt to do maintenance, and with an older-fashioned open window I don't have to do anything at all. Years ago I submitted a work package for a project that was over 300 pages long. When I turned it in an old-timer who was with me laughed. He said that when used to submit his work years ago it was only 4 pages long. So more advanced, sure. Better? Debatable.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Re: #2 is what I described.
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Mar 4, 2023, 5:46 PM
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"This is an interesting point because the more one tries to define God the more ways there are to disagree. If I were to say "There is a God", maybe 95% of the world would say "Sure". But then if I were to try to define God by saying, "He sent Muhammad as his supreme prophet", the suddenly that 95% fractures into only 35% who still agree with me. And if I go further and say "and only Muhammad's kin can lead Islam, then only 20% of that 35% still agree with me, the Shia."
You've summed it up pretty well here. I've noticed when I discuss things with religious folks I know personally they tend to jump to the conclusion when you question any aspect about their religion that you are embracing atheism. I quickly remind them that there are thousands of versions of some sort of god to believe in and I'm just pointing out a flaw or making an observation about their particular belief.
"And the same fracturing occurs in every other religion as we try to determine what God is or what he wants. There was an article just yesterday about another church splitting over social issues. It's just a crazy irony that assuming God exists and created all of us with free will and opinions, it's our own efforts to explain him drive us all apart. There is a deeply ingrained element in us that says there is only one right way for anything. That for me to be right someone else must be wrong. But, one could say that's how God made us I suppose. It's just a fascinating condition to me - 95% of the world worshipping God, and hardly anyone agreeing on who or what he is."
And this is what slowly led me from religious belief. Don't claim you have the truth if you can't even agree on what that truth is.
"This is a whole other strain I'll have to hold off on or this post will never end. Another great topic. For me, this gets into value judgement. When we say "advance" or "improve", that gets back to the relative stuff. Because that's from a human perspective. Is my life better than a bird? It's different, but I'm not sure I can objectively say "better" because that's a relative term. He can fly and I can't. I have to do taxes and he doesn't. Those are two aspects of our existence I would trade with him today if I could.
Now, within the realm of just humans, it might seem that life is improving. But as 88 noted, is out life today, in totality, better than it was 40 years ago? There's better medicine, but what about stress? And some of that better medicine leads to terrible conditions where people might live long beyond when they maybe they even want to. My family had to take my MIL off of life support because machines could have kept her alive even though she was brain dead. She hold them in advance her wishes, but it gets kinda gray as to what is an improvement and what is not.
Our life seems more convenient, perhaps, but is it qualitatively better? Today I have to climb under the house to change some AC filters. I get "improved" central air, but with an old-fashioned window unit I don't have to crawl in the dirt to do maintenance, and with an older-fashioned open window I don't have to do anything at all. Years ago I submitted a work package for a project that was over 300 pages long. When I turned it in an old-timer who was with me laughed. He said that when used to submit his work years ago it was only 4 pages long. So more advanced, sure. Better? Debatable."
That's why I specifically said "awareness and consciousness". We are not as advanced as other species in other areas.
You make a good point though. One man's treasure can be another's heart ache.
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Hall of Famer [24574]
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I see him supporting Buddhism, or any religion,
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Mar 3, 2023, 8:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: If one assumes, just for the sake of discussion, that there ] |
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because one's belief means almost nothing. As James said, "You believe in God? How quaint. Satan himself does too, more than we do, but refused the one who is to manufacture one he liked better. That's where you guys seem to be." (tulsa translation, 2023). Buddhism works just fine for that. Islam too.
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All-In [30114]
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Re: I see him supporting Buddhism, or any religion,
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Mar 3, 2023, 8:39 PM
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I can agree this Enemy would support anything that would cause chaos and stir dissent. I mean, he wouldn't be much of an Enemy if he didn't, eh?
>(tulsa translation, 2023)
I am DYING to get my signed copy of the Book of Tulsa  ">"
It's going to have a cherished spot in my library along side the Book of 88.
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All-In [30114]
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Re: I see him supporting Buddhism, or any religion,
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Mar 4, 2023, 2:44 PM
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^^^^^^^
I've committed you to a publishing obligation. Hope you don't mind ">
ClemsonTiger1988®
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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I'm drafting you as editor, proofreader and maybe typist.
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Mar 4, 2023, 3:58 PM
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You can sort through my random thought and see if you can make sense of anything I say.
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Hall of Famer [24574]
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I have an idea, and half the chapters done, but I am not
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Mar 4, 2023, 11:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: I see him supporting Buddhism, or any religion, ] |
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a natural story developer so I need help creating the tension-resolution theme necessary to take it to the end in a meaningful way. So, I have a proposition for you. Here's the deal:
I read recently that billionaires are building these super big, super lux bunkers in which to ride out a coming apocalypse. Dog says we're all progressing, in which case it won't happen, but estimates are that half of all billionaires now have one. Sub Zero kitchens, gyms, the works. So many were built in New Zealand that NZ passed a law that only NZ-ers can buy land. So, that got my wheels to turning. Both of them. I mean, think about it. You get anxious about ballons so you decide to lock yourself away for half a year. You can't go just by yourself, so you invite three of your closest friends. Your wife nixes two of those, and you nix two of hers, and you fight about who else to invite. Not even there yet, and the fuse is lit.
A bomb is a small amount of unstable material encapsulated in sealed in a container. What could go wrong? Like, who chooses the hairdresser (you know they will take one). Imagine the last bottle of hair gel turning up missing.
One of the invitees is Mr and Mrs Warren Buffett, she being named - and I am not making this part up - Astrid. Open marriage, believe it or not, which is a mental picture I didn't need. Like the Gateses used to have, until Mindy had enough of that nonsense. One of Warren's conditions for joining the party was that he could invite his grown, estranged son, Pete. Pete arrives at the coordinates by motocycle - how else - after a brief but foreshadowing experience in Republic, Washington, a little town "on the edge of nowhere, if one considers northwest Washington nowhere, which one would if one saw it."
Now Pete's in the bunker. Four A-List couples and staff. And him, the rebel. The more Pete sees and hears about why these folks are there, and the more he interacts with the staff, and the more he remembers his encounter in Republic, the more he's seeing the futility of it all, not just the bunker but who these people see themselves to be.
Okay, all that's fine, but it's not really a story. Some tension needs to drive Pete toward the end. In "dime novels" it's a chase scene at the end as he races to save the girl. This needs to be a little more than that. I'm thinking of a short book, something like 125 to 150 pages, barely too long to be a short story. Or maybe it could be a long short story, 10 chapters or so. I have 5 or 6 written.
So, come up with a story line that finishes what is there, edit for clarity, and you get equal writing credit. I'm half kidding, unless you want to give it shot, Fordtunate Son, or 1988. Or both.
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Oculus Spirit [94360]
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Speaking of ancient gods...
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Mar 3, 2023, 10:47 AM
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Habakkuk 2:
"19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him."
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Hall of Famer [24574]
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"Those who make them will be like them."
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Mar 3, 2023, 11:04 AM
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Ps 135. Looking at modern idols, we do behave as those idols dictate.
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