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Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance
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Replies: 45  

Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:17 PM

On anyone who can make us a consistent NCAA team. Actually listening to reason here, not trying to trash BB.

Seems like we're scared or getting worse and not hoping to get better. No JK talk please, we all know he's irrational I'm just asking for a solid reasoning against my own.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:18 PM

Scared *of getting worse

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[1]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:35 PM

What coach would want to be a part of the Tiger program knowing he would be constantly criticized by “the fans”?
There are things money can’t buy!

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 20, 2022, 10:51 AM

Coaches are criticized almost everywhere. It is the profession that they are in.

Money can solve a lot when it comes to that, but it is not the end all be all.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 20, 2022, 11:37 AM

If a coach was that shook by criticism would you want them leading your program anyway?

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[2]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:21 PM

He graduates players at a high rate and is a reliable .500 coach. Some would say let that ride for ever.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[3]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:21 PM

Fair enough. I aim for higher

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[2]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:25 PM

Many here, myself included, agree with you.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[1]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:24 PM

How are they graduating if they are transferring out after 1 year?

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[2]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:29 PM

Graduation rates are a big deal for Clemson and it’s administration as it should be.

https://theclemsoninsider.com/2021/12/02/clemson-sets-graduation-success-rate-record/


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He has never been terrible

[2]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:24 PM

And there is the possibility that Clemson basketball could get worse like in the shyatt years and start going like 3-15 in conference.

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Re: He has never been terrible


Jan 19, 2022, 7:25 PM

I can agree with that. Where is the line drawn for not wanting to be worse and wanting to get better?

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Re: He has never been terrible


Jan 19, 2022, 7:30 PM

I don’t think there is a line. It has to come from the vision of the AD.

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Re: He has never been terrible


Jan 19, 2022, 7:31 PM

Fair enough

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Re: He has never been terrible


Jan 19, 2022, 7:30 PM

Poker. It was a better hand than we got with Shyatt. We've seen all the cards. We know what we've got. Everyone else knows what we've got. It's time to fold and take a chance with a new hand.

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Pi$$ing away a 23 point lead and losing to BC is terrible***


Jan 20, 2022, 8:13 AM



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[3]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:27 PM

Our administration should set a goal of top 25 every year. If that is not attained in a given year then the minimum should be making the tournament.
If you dont reachfor the stars you will never get off the ground.
CBB is unable to recruit, retain, develop, and coach at the level needed. He generally just gives players nasty looks and criticism. Because of that i never liked him from his first year or 2.

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:31 PM

That’s beyond most of the stars I can see. But I like your ambition

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:34 PM

You are right. If you measure like Valdemort does - of simply beating the low expectations that the media predicts - you get exactly where we are.

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Same. I gave him ample opportunity to change the trajectory


Jan 20, 2022, 11:24 AM

Of the program - 4 years. The trajectory has not changed. After the 4th year I was ready to move on. It was comical that he was still our coach 8 years ago. I don’t know what the word to describe it at this point would be. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to expect or even hope for our basketball program to achieve anything more than .500 after this many years of being consistently a .500 program.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[3]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:29 PM

Other than someone who would come in and be a bully, racist, crazy person - I see no downside.
Get a program builder (like Dabo). Easier said than done, but try.
Energy, personable, young, relates to and enjoys engaging the students, kisses babies and shakes hands, tag along with Dabos “family” feel, be good with moms and dads.
If you find this person, then a couple of crappy win loss years is worth it to then move forward. Moving from 8-10 in the ACC to 14 is not worth being critical over. Give him 12 years like BB - just kidding - but do give him 4 to start moving up the ACC and dance chain.
That’s my thought anyway.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[3]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:29 PM

I like Brad, but that’s not a reason to continue the mediocrity that is Clemson basketball under his watch.

I think Clemson can do better. We won’t continuing with Brownell. He’s been treated with a very patient hand by the AD’s.

It was time for Bowden to go. It’s time for Brownell to go.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:30 PM

I think that is very well stated. If it was time for Bowden, it's time for Brownell

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[2]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:33 PM

Same as it was with Jack. There comes a time….Brownells is up

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:34 PM

That's another point I didn't want to bring up but will. How was leggett on a shorter leash than BB? Mind boggling

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Brad is as scandal-proof as they come in this profession.

[2]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:34 PM

All professions really. Outside of being a meany coach to a walk-on maybe, there's no whiff of impropriety about him. That is most definitely appreciated.

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Re: Brad is as scandal-proof as they come in this profession.

[1]
Jan 19, 2022, 7:52 PM

Jack Leggett was squeaky clean and won some games in the College World Series and still got fired after a few bad years.
Jack had to go for the baseball program to have the chance to move forward. And as stated above his leash was shorter than BB’s.

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Move Forward?


Jan 20, 2022, 11:33 AM

Interesting

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:36 PM

A question to ponder.
Would you accept someone like Bruce Pearl? Known to dance on the dark side (or close to it) but does get results.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 7:49 PM

Is a pearl a gemstone?

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 8:04 PM

Is a 4Runner a truck?

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 8:06 PM

Even a piece of dirt can look good spending time in the right environment.

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#1 reason is money. Why waste money on the B-ball


Jan 19, 2022, 8:07 PM

program when it could go toward football? We have never and never will be a consistent winner in basketball so after wasting millions on the facilities why waste millions on a coach that can’t attract the talent needed to compete in the ACC? It will just bring football down.

Now if we moved to the SEC, we could get a lot more money and try to upgrade basketball. But we are stuck in this pathetic conference that spins off less money than all the other Power 5 conferences so we’ve got to consolidate it in what we do best.

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Re: #1 reason is money. Why waste money on the B-ball

[1]
Jan 20, 2022, 9:27 AM

Is there a reason that we cannot be good at basketball? I don't expect to become a basketball school but Clemson fans get behind their teams when they are winning. Just look at the response to softball last year.

With a new enthusiasm for the basketball program, even limited success would pay for any extra money spent. Although I would be for putting more money into the program, we don't actually have to spend more. The less we spend the more of a gamble we are making, but at this point it looks like we are going all in on a low pair.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance


Jan 19, 2022, 11:36 PM

All amusement parks have a carousel ... not the biggest money maker, the longest lines or the best ride...but it has its place and is safe, consistent, doesn't require much money and well, just isn't that great but is never really really bad!!!

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Simply amazin. Only TNET posters think the most important

[2]
Jan 19, 2022, 11:53 PM

trait of a SPORTS COACH should be "As long as he graduates players. That's more important than winning championships. Or at least compete!" Holy Hells that is not what coaches are paid MILLIONS of $ for!

The only reason to keep Brownell is because of stupid reasons.

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Re: Simply amazin. Only TNET posters think the most important


Jan 20, 2022, 5:20 AM

There is no law against graduating players AND winning- hey!- they go hand in hand. Dabo has proven this. We can find the right fit for Clemson with a deep, smart search. It won't be cheap, however, if done the right way.

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Re: Reasons to keep BB and not take a chance

[1]
Jan 20, 2022, 8:46 AM

Well over the last 4 years, we have been 5th in the ACC in wins. I truly don't know how we are going to better that with the blue bloods in the league. We don't pay players, our athletic dept doesn't take basketball seriously, and we have the worst basketball history in the ACC.

If we hire a new coach, we need to change how we look at the basketball program. The way we are doing it is not working. The last successful coach we had (Barnes) bolted immediately after success. After 3 good seasons and losing in the first round of the tourney, OP bolted for DEPAUL!!!! If we hire a good coach and he gets us to top 3 in the ACC consistently (that is apparently our expectations) he will leave immediately for a better job.

Lastly, it's not like this program is on a downward spiral (right now). Barring injuries/transfers, we should be better next year and have a talented team. If we were going to be worse next year I would say fire brownell right now.

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I really like this perspective...

[1]
Jan 20, 2022, 9:01 AM

this season I am just done with Brownell. I really like the guy but the BC game was the nail in the coffin for me. One more year with a talented team coming back? I guess I'd be ok with that. I would feel a little bit like Charlie Brown kicking the ball though, I'm not going to lie.

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VT and BC is worse then Clemson


Jan 20, 2022, 9:32 AM

Those schools took chances, Clemson should...

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Re: VT and BC is worse then Clemson


Jan 20, 2022, 11:26 AM

VT made a good hire in buzz Williams and he took a bad team and made them respectable. He left for a better job.

The jury is still out on mike young. He's 2-4 in acc play this year. He had a good year last year

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That was exactly the argument that was being made in 2008

[2]
Jan 20, 2022, 8:47 AM

about keeping Tommy Bowden. "Who would we get to replace him? We might get someone who does WORSE!"

That is truly a lame argument for keeping a mediocre coach. A new coach, at least initially, would bring the HOPE of something other than mediocrity. Keep the one we got, and mediocrity is guaranteed.

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yup! its a losers mentality!


Jan 20, 2022, 10:43 AM

Aww shucks, we might not get someone better so why even try? I simply cannot fathom how anyone can subscribe to that theory. Just simply does not register in my brain. If we do end up with someone worse, so what? Not like we make the tourney now, so how much "worse" can we really be anyway?

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Re: yup! its a losers mentality!

[1]
Jan 20, 2022, 11:01 AM

I completely agree. Just not trying is worse that messing it up once or twice.

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Re: That was exactly the argument that was being made in 2008


Jan 20, 2022, 11:28 AM

Meh, Tommy Bowden had top 3 (ACC it was FSU VT and US) levels of commitment (financial and otherwise). He then turned us around and embarrassed us on the national stage, could not beat a bottom level program (Wake), and were stuck without any accomplishments. And the worst thing, his kids outright quite at any adversity.

Brownell has a BOTTOM 3 level investment in the ACC, has kept mid-tier and kept us from backsliding (like most non-elite P5 programs have), and has given us some decent wins without providing a lot of embarrassing losses. (See UVA vs NC State's 24 points). He has been fairly good winning at home. Finally, I have never seen Brad's kids quit on him. There have been times we have been awful on the court but they kept the hustle. That is a big point.

If Tommy Bowden achieve the same record at Wake, Duke, UVA or similar, he would have stuck around and been considered a success.

I am not happy with the team right now but as long as BB kids keep fighting (aka not quitting and not having a 19 Yale game issues) then I think the Tommy Bowden comparison is not quite accurate. The question to keep BB is different but it is not a Bowden scenario.

We had our chance at a legacy coach in basketball, we did not keep them (Barnes and to a lesser extend OP).

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Unless we are all pleased with this (which we definitely

[2]
Jan 20, 2022, 8:51 AM

are not), there's absolutely no reason not to move on. Brad isn't going to magically turn some corner in year 13.

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Replies: 45  

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