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Topic: I want to bet on sports with anti vaxers
Replies: 101   Last Post: Aug 4, 2021, 3:31 PM by: TheProdigal
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[ General Boards - Politics & Religion ]
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Replies: 101  

I want to bet on sports with anti vaxers

emoji_events [5]
Aug 3, 2021, 10:14 AM
Reply

and see them apply their anecdotal ignorance of odds to sports betting.

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I don't think ostracizing is appropriate for most thing

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 10:21 AM
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But that may be most effective in this instance. Tough luck. We can put this behind us. Covid will be stay around, but the deaths and restrictions to daily life could be over. The only thing that was "rushed" was the amount of red tape that was cut.

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Re: I want to bet on sports with anti vaxers


Aug 3, 2021, 10:24 AM
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well i will just apply therapeutics to make me a better gambler. My friend on facebook has a pig who oinks 3 times to find a winner of a game and is 100% accurate

The inventor of pig oink interpretation technology said you should give them earthworm juice to make them more accurate so if i take that it'll help me make better bets going forward.

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isn't this similar a post you did earlier?

emoji_events [7]
Aug 3, 2021, 10:39 AM
Reply

https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/thread/i-want-to-play-cards-with-anti-vaxers-2080408


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Re: isn't this similar a post you did earlier?

[4]
Aug 3, 2021, 10:44 AM
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And what the heII does it have to do with Clemson Football?

2021 white level member flag link

Ask uktiger1. He responded and is usually quick

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 10:47 AM
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to condemn anyone who posts anything non-football related.

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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Re: Ask uktiger1. He responded and is usually quick


Aug 3, 2021, 10:55 AM
Reply

Lol. Fair point CUTiger1989®

I'll take the L on that one

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Cause he doubles down on being an

[4]
Aug 3, 2021, 10:45 AM
Reply

###. His opinion MUST be followed. He's a facist.

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"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."

"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."


You can throw out names,


Aug 3, 2021, 10:54 AM
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but suggesting that the unvaccinated are dragging us down is a fact. I can think of more accurate names for people that throw a hissy fit when presented with this fact.

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How do the unvaccinated hurt the vaccinated?

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 10:57 AM
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They don't. It's horsesh1te.

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Re: How do the unvaccinated hurt the vaccinated?


Aug 3, 2021, 11:06 AM
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It causes insurance rates to go up.

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For one, I did not say that.


Aug 3, 2021, 11:07 AM
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However, do I need to really type it out or are you being obtuse? Allowing the virus to mutate leads to more hospital visits, deaths, and the efficacy of the vaccines are tested. Kids are now getting the delta variant. In the height of the pandemoc, people were putting off surgeries and doctor visits. The reason almost all politicians and news outlets are advocating for vaccination is because life can get back to normal. I don't want booster shots.

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Re: isn't this similar a post you did earlier?


Aug 3, 2021, 11:35 AM
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Your observational skills are impressive.

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You seem to have an addiction to gambling. Do we need to get dr phil involved?***

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 11:10 AM
Reply



2021 white level member flag link

So the vaccine doesn't stop transmission of covid....


Aug 3, 2021, 11:21 AM
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why do you want people to take it? Are you just a rabid psycho that likes to bully people into doing what you like?

Have you asked big pharma for the notes on how to respond to that?


"We know that vaccinated people can spread the virus." - Anthony Fauci, August 1, 2021 RT Transcript of "Face the Nation," August 1, 2021

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-dr-anthony-fauci-face-the-nation-08-01-2021/


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U can fault people for being aholes..but


Aug 3, 2021, 11:25 AM
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Its hard to fault them for trying to convince you to save your life.

I would try to stop some 1 from playing Russian roulette..but ultimately it is thier choice.

2021 white level member flag link

The vaccine has nothing to do with saving nearly anyone's

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 11:30 AM
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life. The odds it even prevents hospitalization for all people who get vaccinated is less than 2%.

Another scientific study concluded that the ARR (Absolute Reduction Rate) of the mRNA Covid vaccines are less than 2%. In other words, if you take the vaccine, there is a less than 2% chance it will make any difference against Covid for the average person.


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext#%20

This clown is just being a self-righteous psycho, contributing to a dangerous situation for personal freedom.

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Re: The vaccine has nothing to do with saving nearly anyone's


Aug 3, 2021, 11:42 AM
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Wanna bet on some football this season?

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Think about how stupid you look right now. Try.***

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 11:45 AM
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Re: The vaccine has nothing to do with saving nearly anyone's


Aug 3, 2021, 12:00 PM
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ARR for Chickenpox vaccine is 2.4% (+/- 1% depending on variables)

The covid related vaccines have an ARR of 1-8% depending on the type and variables.

So ARR is an important number to review, and should be looked at by scientists and physicians to determine the effectiveness of a vaccine. It shouldn't be thrown around by armchair, Tucker Carlson watchers without context.

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/CMR.00031-09


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Re: The vaccine has nothing to do with saving nearly anyone's


Aug 3, 2021, 12:04 PM
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What the #### is your point?

Are you saying the ARR for HOSPITALIZATIONS from chicken pox is 2.4%? Or just getting it?

I'm talking about moderate to severe health outcomes from covid. The use of the upcycled PCR test destroys our ability to look at preventing actual infections.

And I don't watch Fox News..... nice assumption though. Fox is late to the game.

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Re: The vaccine has nothing to do with saving nearly anyone's


Aug 3, 2021, 12:12 PM
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My point is to relate ARR, derived in a similar situation, should be viewed.

I am not saying ARR isn't important, but for day to day people, it isn't helpful without providing an explanation. Thus i am trying to provide context that's relatable.

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lol argument from authority fallacy. No thanks.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:18 PM
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Who do you think you are? What do you know about me? I say let people see the data and let logic take over. We either live in a republic or not. Normal people have to make decisions for themselves. Dictatorship of approved experts won't fly here.

If you have a specific point then make it.... but don't try to assert yourself as some kind of anointed expert that has certain allowances over others. If you know what you re talking about, let your argument demonstrate that.

And the ARR is only a similar situation if you are talking about serious health outcomes with chickenpox. If you use 2.4% as a comparison to 1%.... but they are talking about different outcomes then that is the definition of a distortion.

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Re: lol argument from authority fallacy. No thanks.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:27 PM
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Sigh ... you don't know me!!! you don't know how i grew up!!! you didn't live on my cul-de-sac!

You were the one dropping random stats and figures out there with the connotation of looking super smart. You do know that the authors of that Lancet article stated that people were mis-interpreting what they wrote?

"When asked about the claim, Olliaro, professor of poverty related infectious diseases at the Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health of Oxford University told Reuters via email it was “extremely disappointing to see how information can be twisted.” He also said, “Bottom line: these vaccines are good public health interventions”"

So simmer down champ. You presented a completely reasonable piece of information. I am not denying that. ARR is a fact based statistic. I supplied some completely reasonable information related to it. I live in this free republic as well. So you can shout all you want ... but I won't let random sound bites of data be dropped without trying to help others understand what it means.

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You don't understand ARR.

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 1:51 PM
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“Let’s say a study enrolled 20,000 patients into the control group and 20,000 in the vaccine group. In that study, 200 people in the control group got sick and 0 people in the vaccine group got sick. Even though the vaccine efficacy would be a whopping 100%, the ARR would show that vaccines reduce the absolute risk by just 1% (200/20,000= 1%). For the ARR to increase to 20% in our example study with a vaccine with 100% efficacy, 4,000 of the 20,000 people in the control group would have to get sick (4,000/20,000= 20%).”

Even one of the authors of that says it has been misrepresented.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-thelancet-riskreduction/fact-check-why-relative-risk-reduction-not-absolute-risk-reduction-is-most-often-used-in-calculating-vaccine-efficacy-idUSL2N2NK1XA


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It's so odd to me that people are still so unaware of how


Aug 3, 2021, 5:27 PM
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the world works that they still use corporate "fact-checking" with a straight face.

Fact-checking isn't something other people do for you boss. It's something you do for yourself.

That article is slanted AF. ARR is very simple. It's the percentage chance that a vaccine (or treatment) will make a difference for all of the people who take it. It factors in more than just people who get the sickness, it also factors in the chances of getting the sickness (or being affected by it) in the first place.

What on earth did you think that corporate propaganda offered the conversation?

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Yes, but they're different calculations.


Aug 3, 2021, 7:43 PM
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You can't compare the two. As stated before, the chicken pox vaccine has a similar ARR and it is effective. You're dishonestly trying to replace one with the other.

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I don’t think you realize that your argument isn’t really a


Aug 4, 2021, 8:04 AM
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meaningful argument.

Do you even understand what point you were trying to make that the calculations are different?

I defined exactly what the number meant and I think it’s more useful to most people instead of the slanted numbers that are given out by pharmaceutical companies to inflate peoples perception of how useful the vaccine is. It is a fact that less than 2% of people will actually have any health outcome change due to the vaccine. You can’t deny that, and that’s the only point of bringing up ARR. The other number is for people who are vaccinated AND contracted Covid. That is not for all vaccinated people, it is for less than 5% of those people. Why would you or “fact-checkers” not want people to realize that?

You are just assuming, because you’ve likely been manipulated, that there’s something illegitimate about bringing up that ARR... which is a ridiculous failure of critical thinking. Instead of assuming that some corporate propaganda designed to manipulate you somehow invalidates what I’m saying, why don’t you think specifically about what you were trying to argue and go from there.

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Both numbers are legitimate and have value.


Aug 4, 2021, 8:49 AM
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You can't ignore the RRR as slanted and incorrect any more than you can ignore the ARR as incorrect. One cannot be interpreted without the other. The ARR will be a low number, especially in cases like this where neither group is intentionally exposed to the virus. We have no idea what the risk of either group was. Were 50% potentially exposed to the virus? 25%? 10%? 5%? Less? More? If the trial was the effectiveness of a vaccine against poison ivy then everyone would be exposed to poison ivy and the ARR would be a much more meaningful (and the Lancelot paper even discusses the unknowns in the risk).

If your absolute risk of being hit by a car when jay walking is 2%, is that insignificant?

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Your absolute risk of anything is significant when deciding


Aug 4, 2021, 9:02 AM
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how to evaluate relative risk decisions.

If someone believes there is a 95% percent chance the vaccine will help them simply by taking it... then they are literally wrong. The 90% numbers were obviously always bull. Israel has proven that thoroughly at this point. Even so.... when people find out about the ARR it surprises them. But it's the most important for a regular person's informed consent.

People are interpreting the RRR as if it is the ARR. That's the point. Barely anyone even KNOWS that they have a less than 2% chance of being helped by the vaccine, just by taking it. That's the whole point!

People don't realize that the risk of covid is NEAR ZERO for a many demographics, especially the young and healthy. If you are asking a person to take an experiment (IT HAS NO LONG-TERM SAFETY TRIALS) then they should know THEIR SPECIFIC chances that it will ACTUALLY HELP THEM.

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Read the post update on this:


Aug 4, 2021, 9:27 AM
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https://dearpandemic.org/difference-between-ar-and-rr/


The author does a good job of explaining why ARR in general is more beneficial than RRR, then makes an update to clarify that the logic does not hold true for vaccine trials were a low ARR would be significant.

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It does a better job of stopping the transmission


Aug 3, 2021, 11:32 AM
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than being unvaccinated. The vaccinated people aren't filling up hospitals. If there are not full stadiums this year, it will be because of the unvaccinated. It is absolutely simple.

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What you just said is 100% false. The CDC has already said

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 11:40 AM
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that the amount of nasal tighters they found are the SAME number as those found in unvaccinated. The CDC even speculated it could be possible that Pfizer vaccinated people transmit the virus even more.... as vaccine induced enhancement was a problem for all the earlier failed attempts at covid vaccines.

You need to stop swallowing pharma-owned media narrative and give yourself a chance. You need to do more research and stop being so simple.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/


https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-transmission-vaccinated-people-risk-of-resistant-variant-2021-7


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5


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I was correcting myself as you posted that***


Aug 3, 2021, 11:43 AM
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ADE is exactly why we went with mRNA vaccines


Aug 3, 2021, 4:10 PM
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The virus mutated. Our vaccines are VERY much less effective at preventing transmission. That is all known, and known before the CDC study.

I'm anxious to read about "The CDC even speculated it could be possible that Pfizer vaccinated people transmit the virus even more.... as vaccine induced enhancement was a problem for all the earlier failed attempts at covid vaccines." Because that was not mentioned in the article you posted, or the CDC study, and mRNA does not even appear in the ADE article you posted. It was seen, 20 years ago, when viral vector vaccines were tested against the original SARS virus.

Two months ago Israel documented a fully Pfizer vaccinated person spreading the delta virus to 75 people at a high school party. Again, this was already documented long ago. Also, vaccinated people may very well spread it more, as they have a similar viral load (INITIALLY) and less symptoms. But there are nothing in antibodies produced by mRNA vaccines that could contribute to ADE over a natural infection of the Wuhan strain. It IS a possibility the virus could adapt to antibodies produced by a vector such as moths or adenovirus, as some covid vaccines use. None of the research you cited deals with mRNA vaccines. Key point. I was very specific in my choice for mRNA. I probably would not (definitely not now) take a viral vector covid vaccine.

I think you got misled on the ADE part. If you take a 100% natural covid spike protein from the original virus, and inject the mRNA for that protein in people, they will replicate the spike protein exactly as the virus does inside you when you get a natural infection, and the antibodies you produce will be the same as well. There is nothing unique that covid would "see" from an mRNA vaccine that it would otherwise see in a person who caught and recovered from the Wuhan strain. Now antibodies induced by a moth, or adenovirus, or other viral vector vaccines, that DOES give covid something unique to look at and in beating that, it could facilitate spread more, with ADE.

Pretend you're covid, and you enter a mRNA vaccinated person. You think they had been to Wuhan in early 2020 and got sick. It's ALREADY evaded those antibodies. They exist in people naturally infected and recovered. However, say you're covid and you infect someone with a AZ vaccine. You see an antibody that's not from covid, you see weaknesses in it, and you exploit them as something new. You see an antibody not from 100% natural covid. PLUS, when your body first saw that AZ vaccine, it saw an adenovirus, not covid. Viral vector vaccines simply do not work well anymore. They were beaten handily by Lambda in Peru, and Chile, and AZ was beaten in India, and Maldives, etc. They still assist in lowering hospitalizations and deaths, but do little for the spread. There is no evidence of then causing anything other than increased transmissibility, at worst.

But the virus mutating to evade a vaccine, is different than the virus using vaccine antibodies to give it an advantage (ADE). We would see significantly worse disease, and MUCH higher deaths, if that were the case. When you see vaccinated people getting SICKER than unvaccinated people, THAT is a sign of ADE. When you see vaccinated people spreading it far MORE than unvaccinated people, that can be a sign too. Neither is the case as delta has plowed through unvaccinated people more than vaccinated in multiple countries now. So the ADE thing is totally not true.

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Re: ADE is exactly why we went with mRNA vaccines


Aug 4, 2021, 7:56 AM
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ADE has not been ruled out (or in) with mRNA vaccines yet. The trials were not designed to test for that for some reason I don’t understand.

There is currently no specific evidence that ADE is happening with the Pfizer vaccine but the statistical analysis of the timing of an increase in breakthrough cases certainly points to potential ADE. We are in the waning haze of antibodies from the Pfizer vax. They always knew it would require boosters.

This was not disclosed properly (for obvious reasons) and the risk of ADE, which is absolutely wide open thanks to ZERO long-term safety trials, has not been sufficiently disclosed either. In the ridiculous panic to get everyone, regardless of risk to covid19, the risks and uncertainty was thoroughly obfuscated.

“Phase 1 trials of several vaccines have not reported any immunopathology in subjects administered the candidate vaccines. However, these subjects were unlikely to have yet encountered circulating virus.14 Nevertheless, all preclinical studies to date have been performed with the Wuhan or closely related strains of the virus, while a mutant D614G virus is now the most prevalent circulating form. Several observations suggest that this alternative form may be antigenically distinct from the Wuhan derived strain, not so much in composition, but in conformation of the viral spike and exposure of neutralisation epitopes.15-18 Similarly, Phase 1 and 2 clinical trials of vaccine candidates have only been designed around immunogenicity as an efficacy end point and have not been designed to capture exposure of subjects to circulating virus after vaccination, which is when ADE/immunopathology is designed to occur. Thus, the absence of ADE evidence in COVID-19 vaccine data so far does not absolve investigators from disclosing the risk of enhanced disease to vaccine trial participants, and it remains a realistic, non-theoretical risk to the subjects.“

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ijcp.13795

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I will take that back.


Aug 3, 2021, 11:41 AM
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It is unclear if vaccinated people transmit the delta variant at the same rate as unvaccinated.

Regardless, having to explain why getting the country back to normal is difficult.

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It is INSANE to accept that we need to take a pharma


Aug 3, 2021, 11:44 AM
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product that shows no evidence of helping anyone for the government to ALLOW US to get back to normal?

Wth has happened to people? Turn off the television.

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Dude, people in hospitals are almost entirely unvaccinated


Aug 3, 2021, 11:51 AM
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It is saving people. People apparently don't have the self-control to social distance so we have dragged this along

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Re: It is INSANE to accept that we need to take a pharma


Aug 3, 2021, 11:52 AM
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This is easy, because all we have to do is determine whether the vaccine "shows no evidence of helping anyone." If you're right, then yes people shouldn't have to take the vaccine.

But if you're wrong...

What % of COVID cases are vaccinated people?

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If you see everything as liberal and conservative teams, then You Are What's Wrong With America #YAWWWA


Considering less than 1% of covid cases die... I'd say cases

[2]
Aug 3, 2021, 11:58 AM
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are a worthless metric. The vast majority of "cases" are not "infections." The PCR test can't tell the difference between a person who has bits of dead virus versus a person who is "infected" and contagious.

Statistically, it makes no since for the vast majority of people to take this risk. I have already been exposed to covid dozens of times over the last two years. So has my family. We are fine.

Meanwhile.... totalitarianism is covering the world.

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Re: Considering less than 1% of covid cases die... I'd say cases


Aug 3, 2021, 12:25 PM
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So in your view, the vaccine is riskier than the disease? Really?

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If you see everything as liberal and conservative teams, then You Are What's Wrong With America #YAWWWA


Depending on demographics YES. That is demonstrated.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:28 PM
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It's not a theory.

More children have died of the vaccine than Covid.

If we looked into more specific metrics like vitamin D deficiency and obesity and insulin resistance then we would see a much more useful picture.

But these stats are massaged to make it look as evenly bad as possible.

The VAST majority of people who died were either extremely old (past life expectancy) or extremely unhealthy (obese, multiple diseases)

If this was the 1918 Flu, then it would be VERY different. Or even the regular seasonal flu. Those kill healthy people as fast as anyone else.

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More children have died from the vax than covid


Aug 3, 2021, 12:29 PM
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please post your source on this

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Re: Depending on demographics YES. That is demonstrated.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:31 PM
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More children have died of the vaccine than Covid? What age group, and what's your source?

My neighbor died, a coworker's mother died, and a 23-year-old I know hasn't regained his sense of taste and smell. I don't know a soul who had a problem with the vaccine. This is anecdotal but I would guess my experience isn't an outlier.

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If you see everything as liberal and conservative teams, then You Are What's Wrong With America #YAWWWA


Hey man, leave your anecdotal evidence out of this


Aug 3, 2021, 12:33 PM
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you have to post FACTS for him to completely ignore

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Re: Depending on demographics YES. That is demonstrated.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:38 PM
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340 children died of covid from 2019 to today (died within range of a positive PCR test)

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex



"Overall, 8,383 (90.7%) VAERS reports were for nonserious events, and 863 (9.3%) for serious events, including death; 609 (70.6%) reports of serious events were among males, and median age was 15 years..."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html


The latter numbers will climb precipitously... according to a sworn affidavit from a CDC whistleblower involved in a lawsuit.

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So your statement of "more kids are dying from the vax


Aug 3, 2021, 12:42 PM
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than from COVID" isn't actually true. You just think it will happen.

Your ignorance is stunning. It really is.

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LOL glad i caught this low hanging fruit before muting you..


Aug 3, 2021, 12:43 PM
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Look at the numbers....

Were you under the impression that 300 was bigger than 600?

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I know you can't read really well but cmon.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:46 PM
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"including death; 609 (70.6%) reports of serious events were among males, and median age was 15 years..."

340 < 609

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I can read, you can't math***


Aug 3, 2021, 12:49 PM
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You're misusing VAERS.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:50 PM
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That does not mean that anyone died because of the vaccine.

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You could say the same about PCR tests and Covid. Do you?***


Aug 3, 2021, 12:51 PM
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Not the same, unless I'm misunderstanding.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:52 PM
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Aren't COVID deaths only counted when it is listed as a cause of death?

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Nope, they are counted in various ways that you would


Aug 3, 2021, 12:56 PM
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raise an eyebrow over.

Since we currently have no easy, airtight way to tell if a person is actually infected... we use the PCR test. The PCR test literally can't distinguish between the presence of dead coronavirus pieces and an active infection. So..... a person could "test positive" from covid and not actually be infected, contagious or harmed by it at all.

The dude who invented it, Kary Mullis, said as much. The CDC has sent out guidance confirming this multiple times. It only shocks people because the news, for some reason, doesn't tell people. Cases are presented as infections.... which is factually/scientifically inaccurate.

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From the link you provided:


Aug 3, 2021, 12:59 PM
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"Note: Provisional death counts are based on death certificate data received and coded by the National Center for Health Statistics as of July 28, 2021. "

I don't see anything about "PCR" anywhere, so I don't know what you're really talking about there.

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Oh yes, the link is not a reference for PCR limitations.


Aug 3, 2021, 1:04 PM
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Here is one for that.



It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2. The only test for live virus is viral culture. PCR and lateral flow tests do not distinguish live virus. No test of infection or infectiousness is currently available for routine use.678 As things stand, a person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious.9

The relations between viral load, viral shedding, infection, infectiousness, and duration of infectiousness are not well understood. In a recent systematic review, no study was able to culture live virus from symptomatic participants after the ninth day of illness, despite persistently high viral loads in quantitative PCR diagnostic tests. However, cycle threshold (Ct) values from PCR tests are not direct measures of viral load and are subject to error.10

While viral load seems to be similar in people with and without symptoms, the presence of RNA does not necessarily represent transmissible live virus. The duration of viral RNA shedding (interval between first and last positive PCR result for any sample) is shorter in people who remain asymptomatic, so they are probably less infectious than people who develop symptoms.11


https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851


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It doesn't say that the COVID deaths


Aug 3, 2021, 1:35 PM
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reported were detected by PCR, or not.

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Bro.... I assumed you knew that the PCR is the only way


Aug 3, 2021, 5:23 PM
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that anyone has been diagnosed with Covid.... unless they guessed based on symptoms.

The PCR test is THE source of case counts. But that's flawed AF for reasons mentioned above.

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There can be false positives on PCR test for those that...


Aug 3, 2021, 1:05 PM
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have had COVID.

But you have to be careful when dismissing those false positives statistically.

The total case count is not really impacted, unless the person being tested had already tested positive for COVID a considered is a "separate" infection. That's why the CDC guidance doesn't require retesting/negative test to exit quarantine for infected people...because a previously infected person could still show a positive test result for a period after the infection is over.

This issue can inflate the real-time infection count for someone that was previously infected but didn't get tested at the time (someone that was asymptomatic for instance).

Too many people see this test issue and pronounce the test unreliable and therefore the case counts wildly inflated when that simply isn't true.

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You beat me to it...VAERS is a system for reporting...


Aug 3, 2021, 12:54 PM
Reply

possible interactions and anyone can make a submission.

Referencing VAERS data as stats illustrates that one doesn't understand the subject matter.

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Directly from VAERS:


Aug 3, 2021, 12:56 PM
Reply

"If a health problem is reported to VAERS, that doesn’t mean that the vaccine caused the problem. It warns vaccine safety experts of potential problems that may need investigation and alerts them to take further action, as needed.

Millions of people in the United States have received COVID-19 vaccines. Other than rare reports of severe allergic reactions, analysis of VAERS reports has not detected any patterns that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines."

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Re: Directly from VAERS:


Aug 3, 2021, 1:01 PM
Reply

"as needed" lol

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According to academic studies there are reasons to suspect


Aug 3, 2021, 1:00 PM
Reply

that VAERS data is typically underreported.

You are parroting a mainstream news meme. Here, look at some actual science acknowledging this common issue.

Background: Underreporting is a limitation common to passive surveillance systems, including the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) that monitors the safety of U.S.-licensed vaccines.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33039207/


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I'm not parroting anything....


Aug 3, 2021, 1:16 PM
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listen...you seem to discount conflicting takes as the people "just not knowing". Frankly, I think you're way off base and not understanding a dang thing, but I didn't say that...I pointed out what I thought.

My opinions are my own and function of my own research. I'm not parroting anything.

And the piece you linked is specifically addressing anaphylaxis and Guillain-Barré syndrome. Are you suggesting that those are the primary reactions of concern with the COVID vaccines?

That piece doesn't provide support for the idea that all reactions to the COVID vaccine are likely underreported. It just states that underreporting is a general limitation of self-reporting systems. Ok...but that doesn't validate the reports that have been made. You're trying to make the case that...well there are 800 something issues reported to VAERS abd in reality it's probably more because of underreporting...when in fact, the 800 reports have not been validated as actual problems/reactions.

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Re: I'm not parroting anything....


Aug 3, 2021, 5:21 PM
Reply

you seem to discount conflicting takes as the people "just not knowing". No I didn't. The only thing in that neighborhood I said was that you were parroting someone from mainstream news. I said that because it's the default "fact-check" training answer. I have no idea if that was a coincidence or not.... but there you have it.

Are you suggesting that those are the primary reactions of concern with the COVID vaccines? No, I am not. Though it is apparently one of the adverse reactions that has nothing to do with why I posted the article. It was a quick was to demonstrate that VAERS is known to be underreported, not the opposite. There are other sources that confirm this. The idea that it's over-reported creeped up to justify sucking up to pharma companies since the whole mRNA deal.

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Nobody's saying something is overreported.

[1]
Aug 4, 2021, 6:09 AM
Reply

The point is there's no established causal link. Maybe there were twice as many deaths after taking the vaccine as reported on VAERS, so maybe it is underreported. But that doesn't mean a single one of the deaths was caused by the vaccine.

Please don't use the numbers beyond how they are intended. This is how misinformation spreads.

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Wait so you don't think the vaccine is killing anyone?***


Aug 4, 2021, 8:19 AM
Reply



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I can't say that one way or the other.


Aug 4, 2021, 10:32 AM
Reply

VAERS certainly doesn't tell me one way or the other.

I've seen big headlines for people having some adverse reaction to the vaccine, so it seems like if someone died because of it, that would be an enormous national story, if it had happened. But I can't say for sure.

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Re: I can't say that one way or the other.


Aug 4, 2021, 2:54 PM
Reply

It would be an enormous national story? How could any rational person not in a coma the last 10 years believe that? You seriously can't detect the obvious slant? Are you still not aware that the same people who own the news own the pharmaceutical companies?

What goes on the news has NOTHING to do with national interest. It is a commercial for whatever the #### Blackrock, Vanguard and all their subsidiaries want people to see and hear.

You have to disabuse yourself of the ridiculous notion that the news reports on things that are important for people to know.

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wait...this is making sense now...you read The Defender...


Aug 4, 2021, 3:24 PM
Reply

don't you?

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Why would someone having a medical issue


Aug 4, 2021, 3:31 PM
Reply

after the vaccine be a headline story (which I have seen), but someone dying would be buried as a news item? That doesn't make any sense. Someone dying because of the vaccine would be the most money-making thing the news could report on, because of the clicks/views it would create.

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How am I parroting a news meme?


Aug 3, 2021, 1:34 PM
Reply

I have never watched or read a single thing about VAERS, except the VAERS site itself. I am literally reading what it says about itself, not what anyone else is saying. I have no idea what other people say about it.

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Re: How am I parroting a news meme?


Aug 3, 2021, 5:21 PM
Reply

Follow the thread, I was saying that to the other guy.

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I hope you didn't intentionally misstate that.


Aug 3, 2021, 1:33 PM
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From the website with the 609 number: that's not deaths, that's adverse incidents. Here's deaths:

CDC reviewed 14 reports of death after vaccination. Among the decedents, four were aged 12–15 years and 10 were aged 16–17 years. All death reports were reviewed by CDC physicians; impressions regarding cause of death were pulmonary embolism (two), suicide (two), intracranial hemorrhage (two), heart failure (one), hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis and disseminated Mycobacterium chelonae infection (one), and unknown or pending further records (six).

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e1.htm


2021 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

If you see everything as liberal and conservative teams, then You Are What's Wrong With America #YAWWWA


Spooneye is right, the number was wrong.

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 5:16 PM
Reply

I need to find the demographic associated with the 600 deaths number.

That document did NOT say 600+ deaths in minors. The CDC says there are around 11,000 deaths total, but they do NOT say that 600 of them are 12-17.

I will figure out where I went wrong with the demographic breakdown.

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No, once again that is flat wrong....

[1]
Aug 4, 2021, 12:33 AM
Reply

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html


"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 342 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 26, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths."

There have not been 11000 deaths caused by the vaccine. There have been 6340 reports of death in VAERS and those are not confirmed to have been caused by the vaccine.

You keep spreading false information?

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A couple of weeks ago they deleted half of them.


Aug 4, 2021, 8:16 AM
Reply

They never provided any sort of public evidence as to why. The number of reported Deaths on VAERS are far higher than that. They just purged the numbers

They make it hard as h*ll to search for reported vaccine deaths too. It's like a 10 step process to set all the correct filters. I personally saw over 50,000 search results the last time I did it, but it said it could only display 10,000 at a time. For some reason the search result for 50,000 has never shown up an any CDC publications and I've never heard that number acknowledged by anyone except for people who did the same search for themselves (or heard about someone else doing it.) I don't know why there were 50,000 results because I obviously have no way to research it. It could have been a glitch.... because just one week before the same search result only showed around 11,000.


UPDATE: As of 2:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website modified the number of VAERS reports related to COVID-19 vaccination deaths from 12,313 to 6,079, through July 13, 2021. The CDC's webpage's Last Update date remains July 19, 2021.

UPDATE #2: As of 6:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website stated through July 19, 2021, VAERS had received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. The CDC's webpage's Last Update date reflects July 21, 2021.

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/covid-19-vaccine-related-fatalities-updated


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Here is a website that downloads the entries to make it


Aug 4, 2021, 8:44 AM
Reply

easier to scroll.

It was last updated around 10 days ago before the CDC "update."

But you can browse all the entries from the CDC VAERS data much easier than on the CDC search page.

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

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Again...these are unsubstantiated reports...


Aug 4, 2021, 9:12 AM
Reply

why do you keep using them as some kind of statistic?

Searching VAERS is pretty simple...for filtering reported deaths after vaccine, I've found it easier to do it by manufacturer.

Query Criteria:
Event Category: Death
State / Territory: The United States/Territories/Unknown
Vaccine Manufacturer: MODERNA
Group By: Serious; Vaccine Type
Show Totals: True
Show Zero Values: False

In reference to the VAERS count change, it was an incorrect coding issue in VAERS tabulations that was corrected quickly and the CDC web page was updated to show the correct count on June 21. If you've pulled data from VAERS you know that you can see descriptions of the cases, so it's easy to see if something was miscoded or not. It sure as sheet isn't some grand conspiracy as you seem to be suggesting.

And still...THESE ARE NOT DEATHS FROM THE COVID VACCINE...and it's patently dishonest to suggest they are.

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Here's a picture. They're always worth 1,000 words


Aug 3, 2021, 4:17 PM
Reply

Viral load among breakthrough vaccinated cases and unvaccinated. You see the initial period of 4 days the levels are the same. So YES, vaccinated people spread the virus as much as unvaccinated, at least initially when viral loads are high. BUT, notice the difference over time. That shows the virals loads drop significantly more over time among breakthrough cases. This was with the Pfizer vaccine btw.



Source: (Singapore)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261295v1.full-text


2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link

Biggest thing is it keeps you from dying.

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 11:51 AM
Reply

They're less effective. And some people only deal in absolutes. So if it means you're 70% less likely to die, but only maybe 5% less likely to catch or transmit it, then it's entirely pointless to take it. Same with masks. They let in covid sized particles, so they're useless.

Now go ahead and use that seatbelt while driving. Buckle up. IT'S THE LAW!!!!!!

smfh

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link

It doesn't keep me from dying. Nor the VAST MAJORITY of


Aug 3, 2021, 11:59 AM
Reply

people.

It may keep like .0003% or something from dying. If they want to take it... good for them.

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100% of people die.

[2]
Aug 3, 2021, 12:20 PM
Reply

Some quicker than others. People die every year taking selfies at the Grand Canyon.

Pick your poison.

Now, when you have a heart attack from freely eating too many hamburgers and smoking, and the ICU is full of covid people, and you die from your heart attack, please remember 30% less people in that ICU with covid would save your ###, from your heart attack. Or car wreck. Or the other stuff people die from.

Over 600,000 people have died from it. Life expectancy has dropped more than a year. It has changed actuarial tables for life insurance companies. If you don't trust the scientists or politicians, try trusting the people who bet on your life. Because for them it's important to know how long you will live to pay them premiums on your life. And they do NOT lose money.

https://www.soa.org/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2021/group-life-covid-19-mortality.pdf

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link

Blah blah blah, screw you guys, I'm not getting it.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:24 PM
Reply

Good luck surviving. I like my chances. If you need me to help keep you safe you suck at handling your own business.

600,000 people died with a positive covid PCR test. You might want to look into the PCR test. Then reconsider those big ole numbers.

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Probably one of the most knowledgable people in here


Aug 3, 2021, 12:35 PM
Reply

on COVID gives you facts and your response is blah blah blah I'm still not getting it.

And then stated that 600k people died from COVID, but tried to blame the.... test? for the death

You have the mental capacity of a 12 year old

This is why I stated in my other post that I'm not going to try to change your mind.

Your mind is made up. you're going to take the risks and hope you don't die.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

Hopefully in the meantime you will grow up mentally.


Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®


2021 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link


You already invalidated yourself earlier, coward. :)


Aug 3, 2021, 12:41 PM
Reply

Im not reading your posts anymore since you are not serious. I can mute you I think. You are the only one in here that applies to. You tried to show up late and use cliches instead of engaging in specifics. Bye....

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

Re: You already invalidated yourself earlier, coward. :)


Aug 3, 2021, 12:43 PM
Reply

Taking A Bow GIFs | Tenor

2021 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link


You are the perfect example of somebody who has done


Aug 3, 2021, 12:22 PM
Reply

a lot of reading but not a lot of understanding

2021 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link


Demonstrate how that is the case with specifics. I'll wait.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:24 PM
Reply

Or do you just spout cliches when you have no idea what is going on?

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No point arguing with you. You have demonstrated that no


Aug 3, 2021, 12:28 PM
Reply

amount of facts will overcome what you feel.

I will say, like I've said to others on here that for the sake of you and your family I really hope you don't get it.

I've personally seen multiple people, including one woman just recently who thought "it's not that bad" and then quickly get COVID and die.

Including one who was a lot like you. All of these facts about how the vaccine doesn't work and there's no point in getting it.

She's now dead.

Like I said, I really hope you don't get COVID.

Good luck.

2021 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link


Omg I'm so shocked you declined the chance to be specific.

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 12:30 PM
Reply

I was really expecting you to pursue it with specifics.... maybe even references.

But you surprised me my going back to unsupported generalizations and anecdotal stuff.

Did not see that coming at all.

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Unfortunate....

[2]
Aug 3, 2021, 12:52 PM
Reply

but Project Mockingbird has been a resounding government success. They have not only brain washed the masses but also turned them into little activists for their totalitarian ideas. What a time to be alive.

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Re: Demonstrate how that is the case with specifics. I'll wait.


Aug 3, 2021, 12:33 PM
Reply

Personally, I believe the deaths have decreased because the people meant to die with/of covid, have died.

I do also credit the vaccine somewhat. Jmho.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

I think the vaccine decreased deaths a teeny bit too....

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 12:49 PM
Reply

but I think the overall situation is lightyears worse than if that not released mRNA vaccines at all.

So many people who had no chance of benefitting from them have been harmed by them.

I respect people's choice to get the vaccine if they want to. But the idea that vaccinated people should care whether or not other people do it is irrational and harmful.

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

Go ahead, seems you're on the side of


Aug 3, 2021, 11:28 AM
Reply

Sucker Bets YGDPOS Funny BRAINWASHED people calling others Ignorant LOL

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I'm up $1600 this year on sports betting

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 12:09 PM
Reply

about $8k in market betting.

Let's dance boo

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Re: I want to bet on sports with anti vaxers

[1]
Aug 3, 2021, 12:53 PM
Reply

BIG MOUTH in the house

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I agree the vaccines are effective to a degree


Aug 3, 2021, 12:59 PM
Reply

If that’s what your real point is. However, arguing about odds is a little rich coming from a party that has cowered in fear over the past year and a half over a virus that really isn’t that lethal. It’s just very contagious. In my age group (50’s), I have a 4% chance of hospitalization and 1% chance of death. Younger people have even far better odds.

2021 orange level member flag link

Hey, fellow General board users....I know it's been a while


Aug 4, 2021, 8:13 AM
Reply

since we've had a mange diarrhea dump, but that's what this is. You don't reply to it, you RA it into oblivion.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


ironknee***


Aug 4, 2021, 9:19 AM
Reply



badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Sometimes you have to get in the mud to help others


Aug 4, 2021, 9:27 AM
Reply

Get clean.

I did RA before replying, so there’s that.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


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