Replies: 20
| visibility 1,125
|
Orange Blooded [2695]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3414
Joined: 7/3/07
|
How have pro sports survived with player unions?
Aug 10, 2020, 10:38 AM
|
|
If one were to evaluate the popularity of pro leagues using $$$ as the basic standard of measure, then it seems pro sports do pretty dang well with player unions. Do they not?
There is no reason to be afraid of collective bargaining. Players should have a say in this situation, don't you think? They are adults after all.
Maybe if we removed some of the myth and hyperbole about player unions, and applied a little common sense, we'd see that it would be helpful to resolving a lot of the problems related to the dilemma of putting players on the field during a pandemic.
Instead of chaos, we need leadership and organization across the board. That's the best way forward. I like the idea of a player's association. Every team could send two elected players to represent their schools in each sport each year for a conference to work out these kind of issues. It would actually be an opportunity for them to learn some valuable skills.
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: How have pro sports survived with player unions?
Aug 10, 2020, 10:45 AM
|
|
I think unions are generally for professional careers. Should all students start a union?
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2695]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3414
Joined: 7/3/07
|
Organization and representation is not always negative
Aug 10, 2020, 11:07 AM
|
|
Based on the explosion of college tuitions and expenses, maybe a student-led effort to reign in these costs is what is actually missing.
Currently students don't do anything to protest a college system that has severely exploited them via a predatory lending environment. Most students who choose to finance their education are going to be debt-slaves for the rest of their lives, and they make barely a peep about it til after they graduate and then are staring into the abyss of college debt.
Imagine if students decided to organize? What would be the worst thing that could happen? Could they form their own insurance companies? Their own credit unions? Why not?
We have created too many boogie men around the ideas of organization and representative democracy. We actually need more of this, not less.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3362]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3342
Joined: 10/6/02
|
Re: Organization and representation is not always negative
Aug 10, 2020, 11:15 AM
|
|
That’s the difference between you and I....I also don’t think we need more government.
We need more personal responsibility. You know the debt you’re going to assume before you sign up. And if you can’t fathom it, your parent(s) should be able to. If you don’t want it, there are plenty of ways to make $100k a year without a college education. Don’t dig a hole and jump in it and then try to find somebody to blame for selling you the shovel.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2695]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3414
Joined: 7/3/07
|
the point is individual students have no negotiating power
Aug 10, 2020, 11:27 AM
|
|
This isn't necessarily a point about individual responsibility.
This is mainly about an information and organization asymmetry that is being exploited. It seems that higher education as an enterprise has taken advantage of this severe imbalance of information and power.
It seems obvious to me that college costs would be lower for everyone if students were better organized instead of the "every man for themselves" type of attitude.
Same thing with health care. Same thing with coal mining, meat packing, piloting commercial airplanes, etc.
In the case of college sports, having a voice in this unusual time is proving to be essential. The student athlete has no real power in this situation, and that is unfortunate for everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19611]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16900
Joined: 9/5/02
|
They have feet, they have negotiaiting power.
Aug 10, 2020, 11:47 AM
|
|
What we really need is privatization of all higher education. Get rid of tenure and allow real competition, then costs would stop going up at such an expodential pace.
|
|
|
|
|
All-American [573]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6299
Joined: 8/30/14
|
Love to see President Trump raise...
Aug 10, 2020, 1:01 PM
|
|
your ideas during (hopefully) his next inaugeral address. The turmoil & anger it would evoke from the press would be very satisfying to witness, for me personally-
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2695]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3414
Joined: 7/3/07
|
we already have private colleges
Aug 10, 2020, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to They have feet, they have negotiaiting power. ] |
|
and they are run like the giant corporations they already are.
3. The bubble that’s popping isn’t American colleges, overall—it’s for-profit colleges.
Enrollment at for-profit institutions quadrupled in the first decade of this century, to 1.7 million, at one point accounting for 10 percent of US college students. But they were targeted by education advocates and the Obama administration for their low graduation rates and high student debt and defaults. These schools, some of which ran downright scummy businesses to collect government aid without providing much of an education, often catered to adults trying to update their skills in a fallow economy. So in the last few years, they have faced a double-whammy: a healthy job market took away their student demand, and a federal-government crackdown took away their business.
The for-profit implosion has been as dramatic as its rise. Between the 2010 peak and 2015, enrollment at private for-profit colleges decreased by about 40 percent, or 600,000 annual students. (In the same period, enrollment at public colleges and universities only decreased by 4 percent.) Federal loans for undergraduates attending for-profit colleges have also declined by 40 percent. The business model of gobbling up federal money in exchange for delivering a worthless education is drying up. That’s a positive development that is playing an outsized role in negative headlines about American higher ed. After all, research has shown that graduates of for-profit schools see no average benefit in the labor market.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/07/college-bubble-ends/534915/
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40954]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42965
Joined: 11/30/98
|
whar parent lets a kid borrow 50k
Aug 10, 2020, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to the point is individual students have no negotiating power ] |
|
Or more for college? If you cant afford it dont go to private school or earn a scholarship through hard work. Dont have the grades to get into top state school, then start in community college.
There are kids graduating from college with debt and never worked a part time job or paid internship
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2695]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3414
Joined: 7/26/03
|
What it is apparently the only way to the middle class
Aug 10, 2020, 11:33 AM
|
|
for many folks.
Whether we like it or not, for the last fifty years the American Dream has always been founded on the individual's investment in higher education. Based on the dwindling size of the middle class, it doesn't seem sustainable.
My original point is that organization is not inherently a bad thing. People can share information more easily and better promote their own self-interest.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4817]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 4862
Joined: 1/8/19
|
Re: Organization and representation is not always negative
Aug 10, 2020, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Organization and representation is not always negative ] |
|
There are also plenty of ways to get a college degree without being hundreds of thousands in debt. Problem is as long as these idiots can blame the rest of us for their poor decisions the left wing will pretend their victims just like they do for all the other folks out there reaping what they sow.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2951]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1196
Joined: 10/1/11
|
Re: Organization and representation is not always negative
Aug 10, 2020, 4:23 PM
|
|
Have you noticed that all your posts say the same thing? And that you always admit the "liberals" are running the show?
Aren't you tired of losing?
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10664]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9283
Joined: 12/29/06
|
Re: Organization and representation is not always negative
Aug 10, 2020, 5:44 PM
[ in reply to Organization and representation is not always negative ] |
|
Quote: "Most students who choose to finance their education are going to be debt-slaves for the rest of their lives, and they make barely a peep about it til after they graduate and then are staring into the abyss of college debt."
My daughter paid back her graduate school loan $54,000 (Georgetown) in less than two years because she got a Master's degree in a field that actually had good paying jobs. Before allying to the university she did some research and found they had a 93% placement rate for this particular curriculum.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3362]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3342
Joined: 10/6/02
|
Re: How have pro sports survived with player unions?
Aug 10, 2020, 10:49 AM
|
|
A better question you should ask is how many on here actually care about pro football. Then you’ll have your answer. College football still has a “for love of the game” feel. Paying players was the first step towards that. Entitlement ruins everything.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: How have pro sports survived with player unions?
Aug 10, 2020, 11:38 AM
|
|
I love pro football. Its awesome. It's my second favorite thing to watch after college football.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30897]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 34529
Joined: 6/22/03
|
I ..dunno. I don't really follow pro sports.
Aug 10, 2020, 11:01 AM
|
|
I don't identify with professional athletes.
I identify with my university and fellow students, new and old.
I can tell you I am 50/50 right now on ending my 21 year iptay membership when student athletes start getting paid. If they can earn their way they school more power to them, but they will no longer need my money.
|
|
|
|
|
1st Rounder [645]
TigerPulse: 55%
Posts: 794
Joined: 1/15/12
|
Re: How have pro sports survived with player unions?
Aug 10, 2020, 11:06 AM
|
|
NFL who?
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44075]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32984
Joined: 2/22/03
|
The difference is that professional athletes
Aug 10, 2020, 11:36 AM
|
|
are professionals, and college athletes are amateurs.
The professional plays football as their job/career. The college player plays football in exchange for free tuition, housing, medical care, etc.
Apples and oranges.
|
|
|
|
|
All-American [573]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6299
Joined: 8/30/14
|
Ownership operates as a cohesive unit...
Aug 10, 2020, 12:43 PM
|
|
Profit sharing of tv$ among owners encourages, if not demands, absolute assimilation, their interests are nearly perfectly aligned to form 1 collective voice when it's time for battle at the bargaining table. This lack of diversity is a huge advantage for ownership, this also accounts for their profitability & steady growth, despite operating under a socialist economic model. Successful methods that ownership applies to weaken the unions: Exploitation of the short career span; divide & conquer techniques used >widen division between the star player & the journeyman/ fringe player, as they should. A player's union in college athletics =formula for corruption & chaos?in the end, one way or another, the US taxpayer will get the bill-
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4817]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 4862
Joined: 1/8/19
|
Re: How have pro sports survived with player unions?
Aug 10, 2020, 12:57 PM
|
|
If a player wants to play they should be able to play. If they don't then their wishes should be respected. The problem isn't players not having a voice its gutless career bureaucrats making decisions that will financially ruin countless others while simultaneously being exempt from any of the financial pain resulting from those decisions. Not a single Big 10 President would vote to cancel football if it meant they didn't get paid until next year. That's says it all right there. A players union wouldn't change any of this one iota.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16167]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26461
Joined: 11/18/03
|
a shitton of money...duh***
Aug 10, 2020, 5:04 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 20
| visibility 1,125
|
|
|