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All-TigerNet [11478]
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How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 11:15 AM
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I posted this in another thread, but wanted to make my own thread.
Thanks to bretfsu® for the inspiration.
Clemson changed the college game in 2015 and is now suffering for it this season.
The country started following Clemson's offensive strategy and now they are using it against us.
Sure, before 2015 lots of schools had shifted to spread offenses, but that's not the change I am talking about. Many teams were running the spread but trying to make it about the option or about the RBs.
On a national stage Clemson showed the college football world that the right QB for that type of offense could overcome an incredible talent gap and make a game competitive.
Clemson doubled down on their showing by returning the following year and proving that you can not only hang around in a game with far less talent, but you can beat the superiorly talented team when it matters most if you have a QB under center that can take over the game.
Prior to those 2 games coaches were still split on how to go about bringing their team up the hierarchy.
The SEC was trying to beat Bama "the Bama way". They were trying to out-Bama Bama. It was failing miserably.
The BIG 10 was stuck in the "slow north" and mostly playing to win with defense and a run game.
Both leagues made a huge push toward the QB centric open concept.
Bama doesn't beat UGA without putting in Tua to sling it for a half. Bama hasn't gone back since.
LSU doesn't beat Clemson with the old LSU way of 3 yards and a cloud of dust.
Ohio St doesn't beat Clemson without going for Justin Fields and letting the game revolve around him.
Now in 2021, the only team who attempts to compete on the national stage without a QB centric offense is UGA and we have seen them fail time and time again to beat Bama the "Bama way". Maybe this season is their breakthrough, but that remains to be seen.
Clemson's 2 unexpected losses this season came to teams with QBs who were given the keys to the offense.
NC State has all but abandoned the run now with Leary running the show for them and it's made their offense much tougher to defend.
Remember Pitt and their "power rushing attack" in the 2017 ACC championship? Now Pickett is slinging it every play and they run just enough to keep teams honest. Even the 2016 Pitt offense that beat Clemson was running a shovel pass and then giving it to their RB 20 times a game. They found 1 play in 1 game that we couldn't adjust to. That idea hasn't worked in a while against Clemson.
Does anybody think the 2015 or 2016 versions of either offense would have beaten Clemson this season, even with our current struggles?
Look across the country. Teams like Iowa never had a chance to compete for an entire season.
Yes, talent still wins over the long haul but in a one game season now teams are willing to put the entire game on a dynamic QB and "see what happens".
What happens is that the playing field is leveled when those QBs rise to the occasion and they can compete with and beat more talented teams.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 11:46 AM
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Oh so we changed the landscape of college football, did we?. And we are now suffering for it? So now all we can do is either rethink, retool or get out of the way of the Mighty SEC. Thanks for finally telling us how the 2021 season went down the toilet!
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 12:22 PM
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You are intense and devoted!
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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Sorry I forgot to answer your questions.
Yes
Yes, indirectly.
That's a huge stretch from what I said. What I actually said it that the SEC copied Clemson's approach.
The problem this season has been that Clemson is not following Clemson's model because we haven't had a QB performing in a way that allows us to put him front and center of the gameplan.
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Team Captain [468]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 11:47 AM
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As much as I hate to mention it as well, USC jr. handed the keys to Brown last weekend and let him take his chances. The result is that they absolutely crushed Florida. Great analysis.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 12:24 PM
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He threw for less than 200 yards in the game.
Not exactly a QB taking over a game.
Their RBs had the keys to beating UF.
I think people felt like Brown was the key because their other QBs have been so pitiful all season.
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Team Captain [468]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:18 PM
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I'm more referencing a mobile quarterback that was able to open up the game unlike the previous two starters this season for them. His legs affected the play of the defense and allowed other facets of the game to work better than they had in previous games. 200 passing yards is a fair amount when you also have a complimentary run game that benefits from a qbs mobility, especially when they are opportune passing yards.
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All-In [48369]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:24 PM
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Yep. Props, have to agree.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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I'll give you the nod on that one because I did not watch the game and was going purely based on his stats.
If his legs affected the game and made UF have to honor him, then you are exactly right about this applying to what I was talking about.
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CU Guru [1019]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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To add to your point, look what Tennessee is doing with their QB..most of their good players left before the season
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 12:31 PM
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Great example!
Especially when you compare UT this season to their previous coach who was searching for wins with a run first/conservative QB style offense that was thought to keep them in close games.
What coaches like Butch Jones haven't realized is that conservative run oriented offenses that keep games close works against you because a team can lose any close game.
It also makes it where you have no shot to come back if the other team comes out and takes a quick lead and you have to take chances to get back into the game.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:29 PM
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I see my cereal TDer has found this post as well.
What a Fruit Loop type thing for someone to go around TDing all of my posts that they read.
I am having a pretty good week so far though, so maybe that TNetter is my Lucky Charm.
Oh well, Cheerio!
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110%er [6882]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 11, 2021, 3:15 PM
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And There are also those of us who try to help you with that problem..
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All-In [48369]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:30 PM
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Spot on and totally agree. My only gripe about this season is the coaches had to have known what and what wasn't in DJ's repotoir. We've since made adjustments but imo 2 losses to late.
Oh. And I sure wish we still had Hobby as a coach. That man was a stud at identifying talent... On both sides of the ball.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:51 PM
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I think this season is much less about them not knowing him and more about him falling apart during and after the UGA game.
He has a lot of skills that they couldn't use in the first half of the season because DJ removed them (not intentionally) from his repertoire more so than him never having them.
I also think he and the coaches were back on the same page by the Pitt game but there were problems popping up at many other positions by that point in the season that cost us a good offensive product there.
The one that will sting at the end of the year is going to be DJ not recovering mentally for the NC State game.
We could have managed around a loss to Pitt but losing to NC State is going to be what costs Clemson a shot to defend its title in Charlotte.
Yes Hobby was great as a Clemson coach!
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110%er [6825]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:33 PM
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After the 2018/2019 run - all of a sudden you saw football folks doing non-football stuff. Just appearances etc - appearances at NBA games, etc. A little bit of rock star treatment, a little bit less of the "chip on one's shoulder" grind. Nothing bad, but a little less intensity and heck out staff earned some R&R but the intensity didn't come back. 2019 follow a near perfect ###### but faltered. We lost a coach. We kept on coasting especially on offense. Why not? Everything was looking like we had a golden touch.
That being said, the D was in the opposite camp. They were the liability. It took them a while to get it turned around. Now, they are holding up the team where as the offense was the propulsion.
I think we got a little soft offensively. Not just schematically. Developmentally. The WR should be better than it is, the passing game should be much better. QB development is puzzling. We got soft thinking that WRU and 5star QB would be automatic. It wasn't and now we are playing catch up. The O is improving but rather than being KB2 era hungry and uncertain, we were
I also think that a LOT of DC and staff have been studying what we do for the past 8ish years (All the way back to the Chad era). They have had a near decade to "figure" the modern spread out as Clemson being exhibit A. It wasn't just a BV being a genius defensive containment, it was a game-theory equilibrium process happening and when you don't have someone like ETN or TL16 being able to outyt-talent, well the scheme gets exposed. Add that with a little less focus, intensity, talent and well, things change
However, IF we get hungry again (and we are) then we will be back, no worries on that front.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 1:39 PM
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Very much a more detailed post about specifically where our offense is not living up to the concept that we laid out there for everybody as the path to success.
Yes, the rest of the positions holding up their end of the bargain is a must for a QB to take over a game regardless of how talented the QB may be.
The loss of "fire" is also something that seems easy to say once you see something slipping, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true. It's only natural to have a little less drive once you feel you are on top. Only the best ever maintain their drive when they are at the highest level.
In different sports that's what separates Brady, Jordan, Saban and others from guys who come to the top and don't have what it takes to stay there.
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 3:50 PM
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Awesome post. So true. I've been noticing this for a couple years. Teams are copying us. LSU was better at our offense than we were. And Ohio State had a dominant defense similar to ours in 2017 and 2018 to go along with Fields.
Do you also see that teams are copying Venebles Defense as well? They are doing more with less on that side of the ball as well.
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:14 PM
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Great post & super topic TigersO..
Nov 9, 2021, 5:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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and unreal & astute dialogue from others! Thanks!!!
Yep, we have been copied, outdone & pushed to the back of the line but don’t bet against Coach coming back to the front since the guy has an unbelievable drive & will to succeed.
GoTiGERS!
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Orange Blooded [4790]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 9, 2021, 5:23 PM
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The team with the best QB almost always wins the game in college. That teams been us for a long time but pretty much not at all this season. Lol.
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Letterman [257]
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Disagree. Florida ran a QB focused spread in the mid-2000’s
Nov 9, 2021, 5:30 PM
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and Auburn ran it with Cam Newton. Clemson did not “change college football” as you say.
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CU Medallion [65536]
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I kind of fall somewhere in the middle on this topic. Auburn
Nov 9, 2021, 5:50 PM
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Florida, Clemson, and others had success mainly because their triggerman was one of those "generational talents". Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, Deshaun Watson, Tua Tagovailoa, Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, even Joe Burrow.
Now, what all those programs other than Bama have found out is, the fall back down the ladder can be just as swift if you DON'T have one of those type talents as your triggerman. Chizik, gone at Auburn. Cookie Monster soon to be gone at LSU. Florida has gone through SEVERAL coaches since Oscar Meyer took his toys and left.
Might as well just admit that Bama under Saban is recruiting at truly an NFL talent level year after year. Kids see that nearly double digit Bama players get drafted every year, and want to be a part of that. When Saban hangs up his headphones, Bama will rejoin the rest of college football. It happened after Bear Bryant, and it will happen after Saban.
All this year at Clemson has really shown is how critical it is in these type offenses that you have a superb QB making plays. After all, as far as receivers goes, Trevor Lawrence got us to the Dance last year with a receiver corps that was arguably not nearly as talented as what DJ has to work with right now. And, while our running game is not the same without Etienne, if we had our normal passing game, it would be MORE than complementary enough to be effective.
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Legend [16507]
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Trevor had Etienne (rushing + 600 receiving, Rodgers (1000),
Nov 11, 2021, 4:28 PM
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Powell (900), Galloway (370), Allen (250), Williams (300), and Ladson (280). The losses of Etienne, Rodgers, and Powell are big. Those guys killed it with DJ in the 2 games he started. DJ did get Ross back, but he's just now shaking the rust off.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Disagree. Florida ran a QB focused spread in the mid-2000’s
Nov 10, 2021, 12:39 PM
[ in reply to Disagree. Florida ran a QB focused spread in the mid-2000’s ] |
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I noted that Clemson did not invent the spread offense nor is it the only team to be successful using it.
Auburn did what I am referencing but on the national stage they defeated Oregon in a game that was much closer than most expected.
In the country's eyes, Auburn's plan underachieved on the biggest stage. The opposite of Clemson.
Florida is not an example of what Clemson did. Tebow won a Heisman and was the national media darling but college football coaches realized that they did not have the Hernandez or Harvin or the numerous other All-Pro type players that Florida had at the time. Florida was the best team on the field when they were winning and so their approach didn't seem like an option for everybody. Emotionally Tebow made a big difference, but the players around him were the talent and made them dominant.
Where you missed my point is that none of the teams you mentioned caused almost the entirety of college football to make the adjustment.
Clemson stood toe to toe with Bama and then returned the following year to defeat Bama.
When mighty Bama was taken down by a lesser team, everybody else figured out that it was Clemson's willingness to put the game on the QB's shoulders that made the difference.
Internally Clemson fans felt we matched up well with Bama in terms of talent.
We were wrong and the differences in the amount of NFL talent on each team have shown that to be true.
In terms of recruited/NFL talent, perception was that we were the David who defeated Goliath and the rest of college football copied our plan to try to reproduce the same result.
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All-American [560]
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Manziel at Texas A&M first exposed Saban's Achilles heel****
Nov 9, 2021, 11:55 PM
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Manziel at Texas A&M first exposed Saban's Achilles heel****
Nov 10, 2021, 12:45 PM
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Not exactly.
Bama still won the national championship in Manziel's freshmen year after Manziel beat Bama. That was a one off loss that people tried to blow up as if Bama had been exposed.
Bama beat Manziel in his sophomore year and Bama would have been in the title game that year as well without the infamous "Kick 6" at Auburn that put Auburn in the SEC title game and eventually the national title game instead.
Auburn then lost to the most talented team in the country that season which was Florida State.
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110%er [6101]
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Excellent, you only missed one minor detail
Nov 10, 2021, 7:07 PM
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Our Quarterback is an effing TRAIN WRECK
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Excellent, you only missed one minor detail
Nov 11, 2021, 10:28 AM
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How did I miss that?
If we were able to follow the plan we showed the country we would at worst have one loss.
That was a big part of my post is that now we are relying on a run game and defense to keep games close and edge out wins.
That's a much more dangerous way to live than people used to think.
Either team can lose a close game and we haven't had the ability to take control of any real games this season because we aren't able to follow our own plan.
For that reason, we have had basically a 50/50 shot in each game.
We are currently 5-3 in those 50/50 games.
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Legend [17629]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 10, 2021, 8:34 PM
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As Bill notes, thanks for an interesting and accurate post. As you infer, no argument the 2016 Bama team was better at 15+ starting positions than Clemson -- with a dominantly dirty and physical defense.
One of those positions was not QB. DW4 changed the college game that year.
As a side note, the 2018 Clemson team with TL16 and the Power Rangers was a better team than Bama. A lot can change in two years.
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Trainer [43]
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 11, 2021, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season ] |
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I don't think we were the overall more talented team in 2018, but we had the talent advantage at all of the important spots on the field that season.
We edged them at QB, WR, and DL.
We also had a push at RB and CB.
They had the better OL but in terms of OL vs DL matchups we had the bigger advantage there.
It was certainly the most competitive we have been with them talent wise in any of the meetings recently.
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Legend [17629]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 11, 2021, 4:03 PM
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Power Rangers owned Bama’s O-line in 2018 championship game. I heard unsubstantiated stories of CW42 asking Bama’s younger line - “I’ve been playing you guys every year - is that all you got?” Sounds possible for Christian. I like it.
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CU Guru [1932]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 10, 2021, 9:06 PM
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You're right about Clemson being copied but that has nothing to do with why we're such a poor version of ourselves this year.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How Clemson ruined its 2021 season
Nov 11, 2021, 10:36 AM
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It does and it doesn't.
We wouldn't be a better offense this season if teams hadn't started copying us.
At the same time, even in a down offensive year we would have been able to beat the old NC State and Pitt teams that ran a conservative ball control offense.
Those teams hanging the hopes of their teams squarely on the QB's shoulders allowed each of them to play above their talent level and beat us when we were down.
There is a risk involved in that style if your QB doesn't play well. See Pitt in 2020 for what happens when it backfires.
Unfortunately for Clemson, this is the best season for QBs in the ACC in recent memory and it has come in the season where Clemson has fallen behind in terms of performance at the position.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3327
Joined: 8/23/02
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2010 Cam Newton, Texas in 2009, Oregon in 2007 before injury
Nov 11, 2021, 2:56 PM
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Florida with Tebow 06 to 08,
Heck, Tee Higgins at Tenn in 98.
Charlie Ward at FSU in 1993.
This concept ain't new, it's just rare to have a QB good enough to carry a team. We had it with Deshaun and then Trevor. But QB's like that aren't found walking around every corner.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3327
Joined: 8/23/02
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Oh Yeah, Johnny Football, too.***
Nov 11, 2021, 2:58 PM
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Replies: 44
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