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Replies: 49
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Playmaker [358]
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Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 4:59 PM
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The perception that Clemson football has declined in recent years overlooks an important reality: Clemson itself didnât get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved by embracing changes that Coach Dabo Swinney resisted. Under the old system, Dabo had built a powerhouse by mastering recruiting and player development, creating a winning formula that dominated the conference. However, as the college football landscape shiftedâparticularly with the introduction of the transfer portal and more flexible NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) rulesâACC rivals adapted quickly, using these tools to strengthen their rosters and attract top talent. Dabo, valuing team culture and continuity, hesitated to leverage these new mechanisms, sticking to the approach that had brought Clemson so much success. As a result, while Clemson maintained its standards, other programs caught up and even surpassed them by taking full advantage of the new system, making the ACC more competitive overall and altering the balance of power.
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Commissioner [1227]
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Wrong!***
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:00 PM
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110%er [3743]
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Re: Wrong!***
Oct 26, 2025, 10:43 PM
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Agreed. This was a bad take. There were some solid teams in the ACC throughout those years. Different programs are rising up this year.
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Orange Beast [6460]
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As did all of our OOC P4 opponents?***
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:02 PM
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Orange Elite [5588]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:05 PM
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You are half right and half wrong. Yes the rest of the ACC did improve but Clemson has severely regressed due to poor recruiting, poor use of the portal, and poor coaching hires.
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Playmaker [358]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:09 PM
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You are half right and half wrong. Yes the rest of the ACC did improve but Clemson has severely regressed due to poor recruiting, poor use of the portal, and poor coaching hires.
Poor use of portal goes to my point. Recruiting and coaching are valid points.
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Playmaker [358]
TigerPulse: 36%
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved ] |
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You are half right and half wrong. Yes the rest of the ACC did improve but Clemson has severely regressed due to poor recruiting, poor use of the portal, and poor coaching hires.
ACC teams outside Clemson ranked in the top 50 nationally for incoming transfers, emphasizing quantity (20-30+ additions) to address depth issues from recruiting fluctuations. This contrasts with Clemson's "develop from within" philosophy, which has left gaps in the secondary and trenches. Miami's class stands out as the ACC's best, ranked #5 nationally in the spring window with a 89.61 composite rating on 247Sports
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Paw Master [16162]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 7:07 PM
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Transfer Portal is not 100% winning factor. Look at UNC with 70, look at FSU who has sucked 2 out of 3yrs with high TP use. Look at Coots, same. But you need a good blend of recruits, development to build a 'team' around and sprinkle in the Transfer players.
Problem is Dabo has not done well with either. We used to carry 7-8players that were 5* and several top 4*. Now we are settling for 3* players with some lower 4* guys. Next year we will have 3 total 5* players on the team if they stick with us and 2 of them have not been starters this year.
We will have Brown, Alexander, and Amare. Our coaching suffered and recruiting has regressed plus I really think out S&C coaching needs a major upgrade. Our guys dont look like other teams any longer.
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:14 PM
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That's not strength and conditioning though. It's just magical thinking to believe that you're going to take some undersized guy and then make him look like an NFL Talent just through strength and conditioning.
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Orange Elite [5588]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:55 PM
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True on some but explain how all world 300 lb Peter Woods was getting pushed around the field all season and especially by SMU. That is poor strength and conditioning
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Clemson Icon [25450]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved ] |
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Before praising the success of the TP letâs see how sustainable teams that built much of their success and stability from the TP. The TP could be like teams in the pros who build much of their short term success from free agency.
Only time will tell. Maybe Dabo s a lot smarter than he is given credit for. It may be a 2 or 3 year rebuild at Clemson. NIL and the TP change the whole landscape of college football.
If you research the Atlanta Braves 14 year success of Division Wins and finally a World Series Title was built through the Braves farm system by Bobby Cox.
Even Nick Saban made a comment about the TP and how it would take away from a team who did not build their programs from HS recruits.
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National Champion [7956]
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Tiger Titan [48345]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:08 PM
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Are you kidding? Yes there are some better ACC teams the last couple of years but itâs fairly obvious we are no where close to where we were.
Used to feel we could line up with anybody and win. This week Iâm worried about the Duke game.
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Playmaker [358]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:13 PM
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Are you kidding? Yes there are some better ACC teams the last couple of years but itâs fairly obvious we are no where close to where we were.
Used to feel we could line up with anybody and win. This week Iâm worried about the Duke game.
Absolutely, thereâs a compelling case to be made that Dukeâs current football program reflects many of the core strengths that once defined Clemsonâs dominance in the ACC. Like Clemson under Coach Dabo Swinney at the height of its power, Duke now displays a cohesive team identity, disciplined execution, and a belief that they can compete with anyone. The difference lies in the way Duke has embraced the evolving landscapeâespecially the strategic use of the transfer portal and NIL opportunities. These tools have allowed Duke to attract talented players who might not have considered the program before, instantly raising the teamâs ceiling.
While Clemson built its legacy through recruiting and player development within a stable culture, Duke has accelerated its progress by leveraging modern mechanisms to fill roster gaps and add top-tier talent. In many ways, Duke represents what Clemson once was: a confident, well-coached team capable of challenging the conferenceâs elite. But Dukeâs willingness to adapt has made them a real threat, embodying the kind of transformation that Clemson hesitated to pursue. This season, itâs not far-fetched to say that Duke is closer to the old Clemson than Clemson itselfâprecisely because theyâve embraced the new rules and used them to level the playing field.
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Tiger Spirit [9816]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:22 PM
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We struggle against weak non-ACC teams, so your hypothesis doesnât hold water.
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Playmaker [358]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:24 PM
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We struggle against weak non-ACC teams, so your hypothesis doesnât hold water.
ACC teams outside Clemson ranked in the top 50 nationally for incoming transfers, emphasizing quantity (20-30+ additions) to address depth issues from recruiting fluctuations. This contrasts with Clemson's "develop from within" philosophy, which has left gaps in the secondary and trenches. Miami's class stands out as the ACC's best, ranked #5 nationally in the spring window with a 89.61 composite rating on 247Sports
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Tiger Spirit [9816]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:51 PM
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Your hypothesis, restated simply, was that Clemson has maintained its standard but all other ACC teams have met or surpassed that standard. Iâm saying thatâs not true. Our poor performances against weak non-ACC teams shows that our standard has fallen. ACC performance against other conferences (e.g. 2024 bowls) shows the conference standard has not improved relative to other conferences.
I didnât even bring up the eye test. Itâs not hard to tell we arenât the same team we were 5 years ago.
Message was edited by: tigerdan75ÂŽ
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Legend [6776]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 5:37 PM
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Dead wrong just be glad we don't play Wake ....there was a coach in the early 90's that got fired for loosing to the deacons
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Valley Legend [12425]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Perhaps the ACC has improved - but The Tigers have
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Oct 26, 2025, 5:42 PM
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definitely gotten worse.
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Game Changer [1706]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 5:56 PM
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Wrong!
Clemson is no where near how good we were at 2021.
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National Champion [7956]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 6:05 PM
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You are correct saying the rest of the conference has improved as many always have a senior QB transfer. I would disagree about Clemson not getting worse. Because of nil other very good players we were recruiting have gone to other schools. No way we have the Dudes on the field we once did. Think about it and I think you will agree. We have gotten less talented and the other teams have become more talented is my take. The OC and DC coordinators are not as good as well
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Game Changer [2061]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 6:33 PM
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The rest of the conference is not in. Back when we were in our Championship years, Florida state had also won a national championship, Virginia Tech was still a perennial top 20 program. Georgia Tech beat Georgia two or three times and even won the Orange Bowl against an SEC team. Mark richt had Miami ranked number two in the country at one point. Dave door and had NC State playing better than they did now. Heck North Carolina made it to the ACC Championship Game the first time we played alabama. Louisville was the top 20 program when Lamar Jackson was there, and even before he was there. The ACC had the best Bowl record in the country in 2016. The ACC was frankly a lot better 10 years ago than they are now.
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Clemson Conqueror [11186]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Oh, we definitely got worse***
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Oct 26, 2025, 6:10 PM
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 6:10 PM
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Clemson got way worse.
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Paw Warrior [5046]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 6:25 PM
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####### idiot...
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 6:30 PM
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No. Clemson got demonstrably worse. The ACC was actually better in the previous decade when we were on the championship runs. 2016 was one of the best years ever for the acc.
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National Champion [7305]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 6:36 PM
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Clemson does not have a consistent running game. I donât know what else to say. This team is horrible.
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All-Time Great [91986]
TigerPulse: 100%
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LOL. If you don't think we got worse, I don't know what games YOU have been
Oct 26, 2025, 6:55 PM
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watching. I will agree with part of your premise. I think the ACC overall this year is much improved. But a 2016 to 2020 Clemson would mow them down like blades of grass.
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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A convenient rationalization that requires one to suspend belief****
Oct 26, 2025, 7:02 PM
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Head Coach [940]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:02 PM
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It's actually a little of both in my opinion. We have regressed, that is clear. The rest of the ACC has gotten better. Some teams, substantially so. But Clemson's issues are deep and complicated as has been discussed ad nauseum.
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Hall of Famer [8864]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 7:03 PM
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NOPE.......wrong on all counts, Kemosabee!
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Game Changer [1751]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 7:16 PM
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Troy is also just having a legendary season, right?
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Orange Beast [6542]
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Most ignorant post of the YEAR
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Oct 26, 2025, 7:19 PM
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Congratulations đ.
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Varsity [100]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:23 PM
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Itâs a combination of both. Clemson is worse and the opponents are better, but mostly Clemson is worse.
One thing that has hurt has been evaluation. DJU and Klubnik were both five star quarterbacks, but they arenât Watson and Lawrence. Dabo promoted Goodwin and Streeter to replace a successful coordinator, but that didnât work out like Elliot. Dabo made splash outside hires with Allen and Riley, but they havenât worked out like Morris and Venables.
Comparable hires and signings that went well for Dabo in the â00s have worked out poorly in the â00s.
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Game Changer [1646]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:27 PM
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Have yâall forgotten how FSU under coach Bobby Bowden OWNED the acc immediately after joining for years? Did they get worse or did the conference get better? Iron sharpens iron. Some of our conference rivals are playing pretty good. We were on the mountain top just like FSU was. Somebody else will be there for a minute but I believe CU will be back.
Poster has a good point. Go Tigers!
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Tiger Spirit [9816]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 27, 2025, 12:02 AM
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No he doesnât. Some conference teams have improved, but we have regressed.
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Valley Legend [12775]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Wow. You really believe we didnt get worse???!!!!
Oct 26, 2025, 7:37 PM
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Some of you people are living in an alternate reality
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Dynasty Maker [3149]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:53 PM
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Is this why we canât beat SEC teams anymore? Did SEC get better too? We used to be the thorn in their side.
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All-TigerNet [5796]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 7:53 PM
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Put down the crackpipe!!!
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CU Medallion [19060]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
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Oct 26, 2025, 8:03 PM
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We need portal players who have been coached up before they get to us because Dabo's Friend's and Family appointed coaching staff sucks.
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Varsity [122]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 8:45 PM
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We would be at least 17 point favorite against the best acc team right now during our nc years
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Redshirt [98]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 8:48 PM
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3-9 against SEC in last 12 games
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Commissioner [1242]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 8:53 PM
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What a duldrum take. I didn't even read your paragraph, couldn't get past the subject. Clemson's fallout isn't a zero sum game where we either got worse OR everyone else improved. Let me let you in on some serious philosophy son, TWO THINGS CAN HAPPEN AT THE SMAE TIME. I know that is a deep one! Clemson has gotten WAAAAY worse and the league has gotten SIGNIFICANTLY better. The portal says hello btw.
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Dynasty Maker [3125]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 9:04 PM
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Clemson got worse, as well.
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Playmaker [381]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 26, 2025, 9:58 PM
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We havenât gotten worse?
You need your prescription checked.
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Clemson Icon [24859]
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We got worse, there's a half dozen SEC teams that would blow thru the ACC.
Oct 26, 2025, 10:44 PM
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National Champion [7543]
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Clemson Didnt Just Stand StillIt Slipped
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Oct 27, 2025, 7:45 AM
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The idea that Clemson âdidnât get worseâ but was merely caught by a rising ACC tide is a comforting myth, not a rigorous diagnosis. It frames Clemson as a static gold standard while ignoring the very real erosion in execution, adaptability, and institutional reflex.
Letâs trial this point by point:
Recruiting and Development Plateaued Clemsonâs recruiting hasnât cratered, but it has stagnated relative to elite peers. The Tigers have missed on key positionsâparticularly at quarterback and offensive lineâand the developmental pipeline hasnât produced the same NFL-caliber depth it once did. Thatâs not just âothers catching up.â Thatâs a decline in hit rate and talent evaluation.
Scheme and Staff Stagnation While other programs modernized their offensive and defensive schemes, Clemson doubled down on internal promotions and continuity hires. Loyalty is admirable, but when it calcifies into insularity, it becomes a liability. The 2021 and 2022 offenses werenât just out-talentedâthey were out-schemed.
Portal Paralysis Wasnât Neutral The transfer portal isnât just a tool for desperate rebuildsâitâs a strategic lever. Clemsonâs refusal to engage meaningfully in the portal didnât preserve culture; it preserved roster holes. Meanwhile, programs like FSU and UNC used it to plug gaps and elevate ceilings. Thatâs not others âgetting betterâ in a vacuumâitâs Clemson choosing not to compete on a critical front.
NIL Hesitancy Cost Momentum While Dabo emphasized culture, other programs built NIL infrastructure that attracted and retained talent. Clemsonâs slower embrace of NIL didnât just maintain purityâit created a perceptional and practical disadvantage in the eyes of recruits.
The ACC Didnât Become the SEC Overnight Letâs not overstate the âriseâ of the ACC. Yes, teams like FSU and Louisville surged, but the overall depth of the conference remains middling. If Clemson were truly holding steady, it would still be winning 10+ games and contending for playoff spots. Instead, weâve seen uncharacteristic losses to unranked teams and a shrinking margin for error.
Bottom line: Clemson didnât just get caughtâit got complacent. The programâs refusal to adapt wasnât a noble stand against change; it was a strategic misstep in a rapidly evolving landscape. The rest of the ACC didnât pass Clemson by accidentâthey exploited the very gaps Clemson refused to close.
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Recruit [61]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 27, 2025, 8:07 AM
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The ACC is still hot garbage. What a joke. đ
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Paw Warrior [4919]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 27, 2025, 8:11 AM
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These two are not mutually exclusive. Both can be, and are, true. We got worse - they got better. Parity and hubris are our biggest issues.
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CU Medallion [20614]
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Re: Clemson itself didnt get worse; rather, the rest of the ACC improved
Oct 27, 2025, 9:59 AM
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It's not just Clemson. The other dominate team during the 4 team CFP format hasn't climbed the "new mountain" either.
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Replies: 49
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