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Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions
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Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions

[2]
Jan 26, 2022, 1:30 PM

https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten-discussing-potential-elimination-of-divisions-as-part-of-future-football-scheduling-plans/g0LD4tO9pYmP/


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I like that plan

[3]
Jan 26, 2022, 1:33 PM

I could get on board with ACC considering something similar

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions

[1]
Jan 26, 2022, 1:37 PM

That is EXACTLY the format the ACC should be pursuing. Works perfect with a 14-team league and 8 game conference schedule. It would instantly improve the ACC regular season offerings and allow for many more rivalries to develop. Plus we can't recruit for dog poop in Virginia now with only one visit there every six years.

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this is how it SHOULD be in all conferences.....


Jan 26, 2022, 1:41 PM

The fact that you can have a 12-0 and 11-1 team in the same division and only ONE plays for the conference title is a joke w/ the other division having a 9-3 or worse team in a more pathetic division play for the conference title.

It would work best if the conference only had 10-11 teams in it so everybody plays everybody in a 9-10 conference game schedule, but that's wishful thinking.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 1:52 PM

Yea, but anybody with a lick of common sense knows the SEC is the only conference that could have two 1 loss teams playing for the National Championship.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 2:08 PM

It would work until you had a 7-1 three way tie or a tie in which the tie-breaker would not have a head-to-head comparison.

Just split into REGIONALLY BASED division - and each division winner has their ticket to the CCG

If you have cross-division games, treat them as non-conference games (like Wake/UNC). Allow schools to *chose* if they want to have "faux-non-conference" extra divisional games or true non-conference games.

Thus Clemson or even Notre Dame could opt for more true OOC games and other like Duke could oft for more fauxOOC. For example, UVA could continue scheduling UNC, Wake, and GT + 2 FCS games

BC
Cuse
Pitt
ND
UofL
VT
Virginia
+1

Miami
FSU
GT
Clemson
Wake
NCSU
UNC
Duke

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 2:25 PM

There are means to break 3-way ties that are fair and consistent, records versus common opponents being one of them after h-t-h. Last step would be CFP rankings if needed. The key would be conferences that chose this path agreeing to a similar determination so a league couldn't rig a championship game to fit an ulterior motive (ie shielding a CFP contender from otherwise having to play in that game if possible).

Bottom line though, I am more than willing to trade a little controversy over one single season-ending league game for a vastly improved 3 months of regular season scheduling.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 2:54 PM

Lets take 2020 "plausable case" real quick

ND/Miami almost cause a 3 way tie. The Irish would have forfeited against Wake since they were the Covid team postponingcancelling it. So if unplayed without conference interaction, ND would be awarded a L to Wake. Miami unfortunately (dropped to UNC badly in the final game... but lets say they won).

You Could have three 1-loss teams. And worse, the two 1 loss teams would not have a mechanism to play.

Head-to-head (Clemson vs ND)
Clemson played both 1-1
ND only played Clemson 1-0
Miami only played Clemson 0-1

Common opponents (Clemson VS Miami) would be Wake, Florida State, GT
Clemson would be 3-0
Miami would be 3-0
ND would be 2-1 (Wake Forfeit)

If by rank, it would be ND #2 vs Clemson #4, and Miami #10

In every tie-breaker case, you would never have a ND vs Miami matchup. It would always be Clemson VS another. Good for us but the two teams never to play would.... never play

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 3:35 PM

I mean, if you add in a loss that didn't happen to one team then took away a loss that did happen for another, sure you can create all types of mayhem at the top.

But to play along here, since you're positioning this as a straight up 3-way tie, hth doesn't enter into play first, it reverts to common opponents. With Notre Dame's loss in the books (but not the field) in that formula, they would indeed not have placed in the ACCG. It would have been Clemson vs. Miami.

Can we say that since we had pummelled Miami earlier in the season that we would have taken care of business in the ACCG? I mean, in reality Miami lost to UNC wrapping up so it's certainly fair to say they would be in position to lose to us again. So we win and are in the CFP as the 2 seed. With ND sitting out and only the one off-field forfeit counting as a loss, plus its win over us in the regular season, guess what - they are in also as the #4 seed still. Not a thing would have changed other than who played in the ACCG.

Keep in mind also that the year you are referencing was one where we did not have divisions, we played round-robin to the extent we could, our schedule saw a lot of variety, and at the end of the season the two best teams played in the title game, with the loser STILL making it into the CFP along with the winner, the very scenario that has frightened the ACC from embracing this format years ago (FSU v Clemson rematch fears).

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 3:36 PM

Your proposal doesn't fix that. Just this past season, it was very close to Wake 5-2, NC St 5-2, and Clemson 5-2 where H2H wouldn't break the tie. That risk would continue to exist.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 3:38 PM

Sorry, 6-2 not 5-2

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 3:54 PM

Actually it would.

Lets say that Wake dropped to BC in that last game. 6-2

H2H would only apply to NC State vs Clemson. Wake would be eliminated.

Why, because NC other loss was to Miami and we lost to Pitt. Both of those games would become OOC (Out of Division OOC?) games outside of divisional standards. Thus only a 2 way tie, NC State advances.

Actually with my scenario, it could be a 1-1 3-way tie. at 7-1 all around. That is fine on the divisional level and thus you take another tie-breaker. But unlike the ND/Miami 2020 example at least all teams played each outer.

But *ties* in a everyone plays everyone scenario is a lot better than a scenario with a tie and a matchup was left unplayed.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 4:24 PM

Since we do have divisions, the league added a 3-way tie-breaking layer to division championships where if overall conference records were identical it would revert to division record next, thus had Wake lost to BC, indeed they would have been the odd team out with 2 division losses. Next step is HTH which NC State owned over us. Fortunately for the Dave Doeren can suck it crowd, Wake did not lose to BC and took the ACCG spot with their HTH win over State. As we all know we were out of the picture either way by that last weekend.

Up into the 1980's the SEC had 10 teams and played only 7 league games per season. That did nothing to stop them from naming league champions on an annual basis. They increased that to 8 games at some point up until they went to 12 in the early 90's and divided up for the new champ game format.

I just don't see any division alignment that ultimately doesn't rob our league of a better slate of regular season games, better travel opportunities for fans, and opportunities for players to play at least once at every league venue and host every league team as well over four years. By adhering to a divided structure we are letting the tail wag the dog - deference to the one season finale over dozens of other games that could improve the experience for all.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 4:26 PM

It still does not eliminate the risk. You could still have a 3-way tie with teams that all beat each other and didn't lose to anyone else. No matter how you organize the teams, you don't eliminate the need for a non-"on the field" tiebreaker.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions

[1]
Jan 26, 2022, 4:01 PM

I would like to see the ACC go to this as well, maybe get a chance to some of the coastal teams more often.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions

[1]
Jan 26, 2022, 4:13 PM

As long as FSU, GT and maybe NCSU are our annual game partners.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 4:30 PM

Based on history NC State would get the nod over FSU but yeah - those should definitely be our 3 annuals.

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Re: Big Ten discussing elimination of divisions


Jan 26, 2022, 4:29 PM

The ACC needs to do the same.

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