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All-In [47908]
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MethodistNet
Mar 22, 2022, 12:49 PM
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So the evangelicals within our mainline denomination want out. So deep is their hatred for their fellow LGBTQ brothers and sisters that they arent willing to wait for General Conference in 2024. If you find clergy supporting this cause and circumventing the DS or Bishops, please report said clergy so that they can be brought up on charges.
https://thepublicsradio.org/article/methodist-conservatives-to-launch-breakaway-group-in-may![]() We aren’t just Public Radio, we are The Public’s Radio. Hear us on WNPN 89.3FM across Rhode Island and the Southcoast of Massachusetts.
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Heisman Winner [138300]
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What kind of charges?***
Mar 22, 2022, 1:01 PM
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All-In [47908]
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internal church charges***
Mar 22, 2022, 2:45 PM
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All-TigerNet [12299]
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And this is why there is no civilized debate anymore in our
Mar 22, 2022, 1:32 PM
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society. You've already made your judgement and condemned a majority of worldwide Methodists as having nothing but a deep hatred of LGBTQ members as their reason for opposing an LGBTQ agenda in the church. I guess by labeling these folks as "haters" you get to make them all out to be evil people who don't deserve to have their concerns heard. How graceful of you...
Has it ever occurred to you that some people have a deeply held belief that when they read the Bible it is very clear to them that homosexuality is a sin - just as clear as adultery and murder are sins. Has it ever crossed your mind that these folks don't hate anyone (which is also a Biblical sin) and that they just don't believe a church should be condoning behaviors they genuinely believe God has identified as a sin?
So let me throw this out there for you...Maybe, just maybe their opposition to the churches embrace of LGBTQ has everything to do with violating Biblical principles and nothing to do with hating a segment of the population.
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All-In [47908]
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you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
Mar 22, 2022, 2:03 PM
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one side wants no debate and wants to take their toys and go elsewhere. the party quashing debate and protocol is the party leaving
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CU Medallion [60214]
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Maybe we want out because our Methodist
Mar 22, 2022, 4:02 PM
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church only preaches on social issues now instead of being a Bible based church. Maybe just maybe we believe that everyone has the right to love who they want, but do not support that lifestyle for clergy. Maybe some of us are just tired of it all being rammed down our throats every Sunday.
But then again, you went straight to “hate” as that is just too easy.
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All-TigerNet [12299]
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No... the Methodists had the debate at the last
Mar 22, 2022, 4:50 PM
[ in reply to you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. ] |
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General Conference in 2019 where they voted down an attempt (almost exclusively from Methodist Churches in the USA) to adopt a series of stances on LGBTQ that the majority saw as antithetical to Biblical teaching.
From that moment on, the pro-LGBTQ advocates within the Methodist Church have refused to accept the 2019 General Conference outcome and have even ignored the 2019 General Conference "Traditional Plan" that was adopted. Particularly the US Council of Bishops has been vocal in their opposition and has continued to push for a pro-LGBTQ agenda - even having UMC sanctioned Pride Month celebrations. It is OK for people to disagree, but a lot of the US Bishops have actively turned a blind eye to enforcing the prevailing Methodist Book of Discipline and 2019 General Conference outcome regarding homosexuality.
Anyone who has watched the splits in almost all the other protestant denominations in the USA over the LGBTQ issue can see that it is only a matter of time before the Methodist have a split. The disagreements among members over the the Biblical sinfulness of the LGBTQ lifestyle has become an irreconcilable difference that neither side is willing to compromise. Quite frankly - a split is probably the best thing for the Methodist Church at this point because continuing to fight over this issue at every General Conference is sucking up all the oxygen in the room to where other church business is being ignored.
By the way, many of the left leaning Methodist congregations have already split from the UMC and I don't see you caterwauling about them:
https://theamm.org/articles/824-love-prevails-lgbt-group-quits-united-methodist-church-in-bold-move
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Legend [17961]
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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Then those folks would be interpreting the Bible for their
Mar 22, 2022, 2:08 PM
[ in reply to And this is why there is no civilized debate anymore in our ] |
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own purposes and should stop, then focus on getting better at Jesusing. Outside of a short term flirtation with the Episcopalians, I’ve been a Methodist all my life and I’ve been deeply disappointed in our congregation who’ve practically torn our church apart over this. It’s just sad.
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Legend [17961]
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Get on with Jesusing?
Mar 25, 2022, 8:04 AM
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you mean like when Jesus told the woman brought before Him to "Go and sin no more"? He didn't excuse it nor permit it.
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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Like I said, God has been
Mar 25, 2022, 11:42 AM
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making gay people for a long time and love is not a sin, Brother. Foolishness is why our church is struggling and will splinter. I know what side Jesus is on and I’m sticking with Him.
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All-In [31938]
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You embody the problem....
Mar 22, 2022, 3:13 PM
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To characterize those that disagree with the LGBT push to have the Methodist church change its rules and sanction gay marriage and allowing homosexuals to be ministers in the church...as having deep hatred for homosexuals is intentionally misguided it's downright sad.
I have heard and been party to a lot of honest and heart-felt debate on this subject without ever hearing anyone accuse the other side of the argument as hateful.
THAT kind of rhetoric is what is tearing the church apart...not just the issue itself. YOU are responsible for what you just posted and the tone and words that you used. Folks like you are the problem IMO.
The UMC's stance and rules on homosexual clergy and marriage is clear and has also been under debate since the Church's founding in the 1960's. You act like those people not wanting to change the rules are the ones leading to the Church's separation, while seemingly giving a pass to those activists wanting to change the rules of the Church and actively subverting the Church's structure and breaking the Church's rules.
As for being brought up on charges and deflocked...do you support the same treatment for clergy that are openly and purposefully breaking the rules and presiding over homosexual marriages?
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All-In [47908]
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to answer your question, yes. I fully support the Discipline
Mar 22, 2022, 4:23 PM
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in all respects. I was and remain a supporter of the One Church plan proposed by the Council of Bishops which would have accommodated conservatives, centrists, and progressives alike. Make no mistake, the WCA group is not motivated by love. I see hate, fear, and ignorance but not love. The GMC, premised on anti-gay rhetoric, is destined for failure much like the side that sided with the slavers 160 years ago.
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All-In [31938]
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Comparing this issue to slavery is asinine. There is...
Mar 22, 2022, 4:36 PM
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absolutely no comparison.
What evidence do you have that the WCA movement is motivated by hate??
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All-In [47908]
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how is it asinine? it was the last time the church that
Mar 23, 2022, 12:18 PM
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Asbury built had a major split.
as for hate? it is in all the rhetoric flowing from the WCA and GMC. They don't see LGBTQ as children of God. There's nothing "traditional" in the Wesleyan tradition about exclusion. Prevenient Grace does not discriminate.
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All-In [31938]
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The issues themselves aren't comparable....
Mar 23, 2022, 2:34 PM
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What are some examples of the rhetoric you describe. I sure have never heard or read anything close to that. In fact, quite the opposite.
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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God does not tolerate hate.
Mar 22, 2022, 7:06 PM
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Hate for another is the first sure way to break off fellowship and put yourself in a backsliders' lap. God also hates sin, He hates fornication, adultery, lying, stealing, gossiping, self righteousness and pride along with homosexuality. Anyone who has committed any of those, especially pride (#1 presumptuous sin) shouldn't throw rocks.
Hate the sin, never the sinner. In fact, some folks are easy to love. God requires us to love the unlovely.
Considering how many people are divorced and remarried I wonder how a Bible obeying church finds enough men to have deacons anymore.
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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God has been making
Mar 22, 2022, 7:54 PM
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gay people for a long, long time. You can tell him he’s wrong when you get there.
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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That's not my opinion and can't be from...
Mar 23, 2022, 11:15 AM
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my understanding. We are a desperately wicked people. Nothing is beneath us; all are gone astray.
God loves homosexuals as much as he loves. He also loves thieves, liars, adulterers, fornicators which includes all man. God didn't make us, we are the sons of men, men who committed sin and therefor we are sinful. Our DNA is corrupted and those who have not asked Jesus to save them and trusted in Him are unable to resist sin. 'For it is God that worketh in us to will and do his good pleasure.'
Back to the 'where do you draw the line,' analogy. Some might cheat on taxes but never rob a bank or mug a passerby. That's where they draw the line. Some, as the OP accuses, might sleep with the neighbor's wife but would never rape a child. That's where they draw the line. Some might have hate for another but never would they murder. That's where they draw their line.
Fact is, the only line which means anything is the line drawn at the Cross of Christ. On one side of that line is The Only Begotten Son of God. The rest of us are in the other boat.
There are only two kinds of people, sinners and sinners saved by God's grace through faith in His Son.
Blaming God for sin is not something a man should do without consideration. If blaming God for homosexuality is truth then could we not blame him for creating child rapist?
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Oculus Spirit [81340]
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Seems like God made a real mess when he made man
Mar 23, 2022, 1:19 PM
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I'll never get how a perfect entity made an imperfect creature; doesn't really make logic to me.
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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If you notice all through the Old Testament...
Mar 23, 2022, 6:41 PM
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man is called or calls himself 'the son of man.' That is a profession of being born to sin due to our nature. That nature changed from perfect to corrupt when Adam and Eve ate of the tree. God didn't make us imperfect and He didn't create angels imperfect. He gave us a will with which we can choose.
As far as DNA being the cause of one man lusting for another man, I agree. Our DNA suffered from sin and became perverted along with the rest of our bodies. Adam was created to live forever in the flesh without sin.
If a chemistry professor tells the class how to mix acid with water to ensure a safe condition and some guy in the class wants to do it 'his way,' is it the professor's fault that the guy blows up the process?
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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BTW:
Mar 23, 2022, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to God has been making ] |
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I do not condemn homosexuals, who am I but a man who divorced a wife then took a woman to wife who was previously married twice. That's called adultery. I am guilty but I am forgiven. I still bear the guilt even though the wages of my sin were paid to Christ.
These lessons I taught to an adult Sunday School class at a Southern Baptist Church. It was suggested that I become their pastor, but refused and confessed that this wife I had was my second and I therefor did not meet the Bible standards for a deacon. The same is for any man who lives in sin as I did for 30 years lacking three months.
Do homosexuals qualify as church members? Do those who sin otherwise? "For all have sinned..." For membership in God's church, the holy body of believers, one must only confess a sinful state and ask for the Blood of Christ to save him/her. Only one who is ignorant would turn a sinner away knowing they professed Christ.
It's different for bishops/pastors and deacons. The qualifications are much more stringent. Frankly, I don't care what Methodist do with their church, I don't care what Catholics or Baptist do either. It's above my station to get involved in family fights. I take no side other than God's.
This is from 2 Timothy which also deals with qualification for pastors and deacons.
"16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
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Oculus Spirit [81340]
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How did you live in sin if you were married?***
Mar 23, 2022, 1:20 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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It's not lawful for a man to divorce his wife...
Mar 23, 2022, 6:52 PM
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but for one reason, the Bible says that reason is fornication. Fornication is two unmarried people doing the nasty. If a man runs around on his wife his sin is adultery as is the wife's.
Moses amended God's law, which does not provide for divorce, and provided that if a man married a virgin and found out on his wedding bed that she lied that man could legally divorce his wife. Some willfully misunderstand God's law for convenience. I did not do that because I knew marriage was forever because marriage is a commitment not only to each other but also to God.
I try to never cast the first stone.
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All-In [31938]
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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Baptist treat adulterers the same way.
Apr 5, 2022, 7:03 PM
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I don't see how anyone with two living wives can levy criticism toward homosexuals. Baptist won't perform marriage ceremonies between two homosexual and they won't 'marry,' a man who has two living wives either.
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CU Medallion [60214]
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You should look up
Apr 5, 2022, 9:49 PM
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catastrophasizing. That is all you have been doing in this thread. You go full bore to the very worst. There is a middle. You just can’t see it.
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Hall of Famer [24305]
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Re: MethodistNet
Apr 4, 2022, 12:52 AM
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Method
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