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All-In [44029]
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Why do our coaches insist on running the QB so much?
Oct 14, 2017, 11:53 PM
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I honestly don’t understand the fascination with it. A sneak on third or fourth and short? I’m good with that. An occasional rollout with an option to pass or run? Fine. A scramble out of the pocket when pass protection breaks down? Understandable. But all of these designed QB runs are dumb.
There is no need to add additional risk of injury to the player who also has to pass and manage the offense. Deshaun and Kelly are both good runners and I’m not saying they should never run, but it seems that we rely on it too much. I would much rather have a QB who passes first and hands off second, with running himself being a distant third option.
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Legend [17590]
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Answer is confidence in the ability to complete that pass***
Oct 15, 2017, 12:27 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Why do our coaches insist on running the QB so much?
Oct 15, 2017, 12:33 AM
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I predicted this BEFORE the season began if KB2 was the starting QB. Not sure what the ratiois, but I think I said 70/30 Run/Pass. It might not be that bad, but play calling starts to become obvious to DC's in our games.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Agree, we have GOOD running backs
Oct 15, 2017, 1:05 AM
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IMHO, our QB should be a good passer and hander offer(er). That's why I'm big on Hunter, great passer and the running backs can run the ball, I guess that's why they are called "running backs".
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Legend [19664]
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I'm guessing you never watched a Danny Ford team
Oct 15, 2017, 8:28 AM
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or Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Stevie, Cam, Deshaun in 2015. Because that's what offenses are now. Have been for a while. Running the QB provides an extra blocker from a spread formation. Injuries will happen
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Orange Blooded [2275]
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Re: I'm guessing you never watched a Danny Ford team
Oct 15, 2017, 8:48 AM
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But if you are going to run your QB as much as we have this season then you better make sure your backup are ready to play. I felt like we had no game plan for Cooper when KB went out of the game.
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All-In [44029]
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No need for your sarcastic response.
Oct 15, 2017, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to I'm guessing you never watched a Danny Ford team ] |
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Of course I watched Deshaun in 2015, which you know because I've been posting here for years. I also watched many Danny Ford teams, and remember the run-dominated offenses in college football in the 80s and early 90s. As I said in my original post, I am not against running the QB, but I am questioning our offensive coordinators choosing to run the QB as much as they are.
We have really good running backs. Against Syracuse, Feaster and Etienne were averaging 10 yards per carry but only got 12 carries between them. How many yards per carry did Bryant and Cooper have? Why not let the running backs have the bulk of our carries, with some QB runs mixed in for good measure?
My post isn't suggesting that we limit QB runs for injury reduction purposes, although that is certainly something to think about. It is more because I don't think QB runs as much as we do them are the best utilization of the talent we have. It's silly to recruit top RBs if we aren't willing to use them when they are gaining a lot of yards. It's also dumb to call ourselves "WR U" if we are not committed to getting the ball to those guys in position to make plays.
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Legend [19664]
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We run the zone read a lot
Oct 15, 2017, 1:39 PM
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the QB reads the end. If he crashes, he keeps. Others are scrambles, some are designed to allow for the extra blocker. It's what our offense and many others do, even Bama to an extent now with Hurt
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All-TigerNet [10882]
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It seems like we pretend to run it but actually run called
Oct 15, 2017, 2:14 PM
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assignments. In other words it looks like a zone read but the QB knows he's going to handoff or keep it before the snap. Either that or we just make the wrong read more often than not. I don't know but either way it looks like we don't run the zone read well.
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110%er [5623]
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Re: We run the zone read a lot
Oct 15, 2017, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to We run the zone read a lot ] |
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OK coach. You said you watched Ford's teams right? I am a little confused, as I remember we ran the I formation with the qb under center. That means a tailback, fullback, and one or two wide outs depending on formation. Off of the I we did add in some read options, but the majority of the offense was tailback oriented. If I am wrong I'll be glad to listen to your facts.
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Orange Blooded [2478]
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Oculus Spirit [83073]
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Because a healthy KB2 is one of the best running QBs
Oct 15, 2017, 9:07 AM
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in the nation. There are risks of course with running the QB so much but do we whip Louisville, VT, and AU by only having a few QB runs?
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110%er [7158]
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keeps the LBs drawn in which allows KB to throw
Oct 15, 2017, 9:47 AM
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Bc KB is not a pocket passer. We don't really have a pocket passer. Cooper I thought was but he didn't impress in that role. If we want to win I think the QB run game is paramount. We control the clock, it opens up the running game for our RBs as well, and loosens the passing lanes. So if we stop running our QB, expect another loss or two.
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Varsity [243]
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Re: keeps the LBs drawn in which allows KB to throw
Oct 15, 2017, 11:54 AM
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Bc KB is not a pocket passer. We don't really have a pocket passer.
Hunter Johnson was the 2 two Pro Style QB in the country per Rivals. Seems to me that is a pocket passer. Don’t know if he would have done better than Cooper or not but in the limited play he has had, he seemed to be a much better passer. I would have loved to see him get the chance. IMO it certainly couldn’t have hurt.
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All-In [44029]
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My concern is that the coaches will ask HJ to be a mostly
Oct 15, 2017, 12:03 PM
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running QB, because that is our system, rather than tailoring the play calls to his strengths.
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CU Guru [1322]
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Welp, that's our offense. Better to enjoy it.***
Oct 15, 2017, 11:03 AM
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All-In [44029]
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That's all well and good, but good offenses adapt.
Oct 15, 2017, 11:34 AM
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When KB was playing on one leg against Syracuse, we made him a drop back passer. That is the last thing we should have done. We hardly handed off to our running backs, which is dumb since they were running well and it would have required the least of Kelly.
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All-TigerNet [10882]
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You're right.***
Oct 15, 2017, 2:13 PM
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Head Coach [774]
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Schematically it's advantageous to run with a QB because it adds a blocker
Oct 15, 2017, 11:12 AM
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It's 10 vs 11 instead of 9 vs 11.
We've also been running QB follow a lot this year which is a very hard play to stop consistently, especially with an athletic QB.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Depends how good your passing game and
Oct 15, 2017, 11:14 AM
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conventional running game are. Ours aren't great.
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Commissioner [970]
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Re: Depends how good your passing game and
Oct 15, 2017, 11:52 AM
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Exactly! A team can set up the passing game by effectively running the ball, or set up the running game by passing effectively. If our passing game is suspect we're going to see our opponents stack the box and dare us to beat them by passing the ball.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Remember that time when DW threw 70 passes in one game?
Oct 15, 2017, 11:38 AM
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All-In [44029]
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Yes I do. It was great! We scored 42 points.
Oct 15, 2017, 11:55 AM
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Hard to fault the offense for that loss.
If you want to continue using extreme examples to try to make a point, I'm happy to find games where we ran the ball a bunch and also lost. But that would be missing the point of my original question.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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JK, you miss the obvious.
Oct 15, 2017, 3:18 PM
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Running the QB is part of our identity. I can't argue with someone who is so short sighted. Now say something, anything and you win the internet today.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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maybe because Kelly Bryant has been our leading rusher most of the season...
Oct 15, 2017, 11:53 AM
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And the zone read is a staple of our offense
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All-In [44029]
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I realize that the zone read is a staple. I am asking why.
Oct 15, 2017, 12:01 PM
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Not because the zone read is not a good system, because it clearly works. I am just not convinced that most QBs are capable of running it well.
Deshaun was a perfect fit for it. I think the jury is still out as to whether Kelly is. I do not think Cooper is, based on early returns. We don't know about Johnson, because the coaches won't play him.
Our offensive coordinators should be able to adjust as the game changes and defenses adjust. They should also be able to adjust when an injury occurs and another player is at QB. I have not seen an ability to do that.
Again, this is not an argument that zone read doesn't work. It obviously does, as we have been very successful with it over the years. But I am not convinced that it is the best we can do, especially since its success is at least partly (if not mostly) due to having superior players rather than it being an inherently amazing system.
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Commissioner [970]
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Re: Why do our coaches insist on running the QB so much?
Oct 15, 2017, 11:56 AM
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Our quarterbacks are called dual threat for a certain reason. That's why they were recruited to play in our offensive scheme. I don't think Lawrence is classified as a dual threat qb.
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All-In [44029]
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But we aren't using them as dual threats this year.
Oct 15, 2017, 12:05 PM
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We seem to use them as run first QBs, who occasionally hand off or pass. It just seems this year like the first option is to run the QB. Maybe some of this is Bryant's decision making, or a result of what defenses are giving us. It just seems (even prior to the Syracuse game at times) that we are not fully utilizing our outstanding talent at RB and WR.
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Commissioner [970]
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Re: But we aren't using them as dual threats this year.
Oct 15, 2017, 1:14 PM
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I agree, but i think the reason the qbs are running more is that they aren't as talented in the passing game.
KB may be a better runner than DW was, but without the passing ability, the run game can be defended easier by stacking the box. Our passing game is not very sophisticated which may be a result of the passing talent of our qbs. I would love to see us include our rbs in the passing game. How do you think ETN and Fiester would do catching a pass on a swing pass, a wheel route, or even a Utah pass. I would like our chances with either of those two against a linebacker or safety one on one.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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cuz they want to win***
Oct 15, 2017, 1:53 PM
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All-TigerNet [10882]
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I'd just be happy if they'd stop running the QB when
Oct 15, 2017, 2:12 PM
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we have the game well in hand. That would be progress.
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Recruit [93]
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Bc KB can’t even complete a screen pass***
Oct 15, 2017, 2:15 PM
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110%er [5623]
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Re: Bc KB can’t even complete a screen pass***
Oct 15, 2017, 2:37 PM
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Quite a few of you keep bringing up DW and how much we ran him. That simply is not true. Yes he ran the Z read quite effectively and there were a few designed plays for him. His forte was the uncanny ability to make something good happen with his legs when the play broke down. His first option was to always try to get the ball in the play makers hands! If we are perfectly honest with ourselves we can not say that about KB. KB was not blessed with the skill sets of DW.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: Bc KB can’t even complete a screen pass***
Oct 15, 2017, 2:46 PM
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Bryant was 12 out of 17 and Cooper was 10 out of 14. Bryant had more yards passing than running. If he had been able to run, that would have opened up more on the pass.
Combined they had 204 yards passing. I remember Watson had 200 yards passing in some games, like at Louisville.
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Orange Blooded [2478]
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Dare I say - lack of play calling ability/creativity?
Oct 15, 2017, 2:22 PM
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Most likely be ?? for that.
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All-TigerNet [10200]
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It's stupid***
Oct 15, 2017, 2:22 PM
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All-In [48078]
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To anger TNET*****
Oct 15, 2017, 2:23 PM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Because it works. Do you think we would have a 37-3 record
Oct 15, 2017, 2:31 PM
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over the past 40 games or be National Champions not running the QB? Not fascination just good coaching.
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