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Replies: 55
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Legend [16733]
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Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 9:03 AM
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Tommy pulling Reggie out against the coots or Dabo not pulling DJ out?
Both of those coaching decisions caused us to lose.
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Orange Blooded [2529]
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The problem was not removing DJ
Dec 26, 2022, 9:10 AM
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it was the play casing that lost us that game. anyone could have handed it off to Shipley and Mafah. Now I believe Cade would have been better than DJ even doing that, but the abandonment of the run game was what costed us a chance,
Bowden and merriweather was worse. play calling worse this year
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110%er [5013]
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Yep… if we just kept running the ball, we win…
Dec 26, 2022, 9:43 AM
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THAT is the actual coaching mistake that cost us that game.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Yep… if we just kept running the ball, we win…
Dec 26, 2022, 11:26 AM
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A team can only run the ball if it can pass the ball. The only coaching mistake was playing DJ. Streeter started passing because the defensive formation took away the run. You can't run into a stacked box. When the D stacks the box, you pass them out of it. USuC stacked the box and DJ could not pass them out of it.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: The problem was not removing DJ
Dec 26, 2022, 11:23 AM
[ in reply to The problem was not removing DJ ] |
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DJ could not pass. The box was stacked against the run. Same thing as in NC game. Did you listen to Mack Browns post gme interview. He said they had the box stacked because they knew they could defend DJ with man coverage. As soon as Cade hit his long ball, they had to go to balanced D and our running game ate them up.
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110%er [5013]
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Stacked box or not, the coots had no answer for the run***
Dec 26, 2022, 11:24 AM
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Athletic Dir [876]
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Re: Stacked box or not, the coots had no answer for the run***
Dec 26, 2022, 1:09 PM
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Agreed. You can run against a stacked box if you make holes and move the line of scrimmage. And we did.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Stacked box or not, the coots had no answer for the run***
Dec 26, 2022, 10:50 PM
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We obviously watch
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Stacked box or not, the coots had no answer for the run***
Dec 26, 2022, 10:51 PM
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We obviously watched different games
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110%er [6982]
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Re: The problem was not removing DJ
Dec 26, 2022, 7:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: The problem was not removing DJ ] |
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Our running game ate them up? We had 68 yards rushing.. Did you even watch the game? Cades arm ate them up, we could run the ball at all
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110%er [6982]
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Re: The problem was not removing DJ
Dec 26, 2022, 7:35 PM
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I apologize, I posted on the wrong thread
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Freshman [-79]
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The playcalling? The playcalling that win 11 games and currently has
Dec 26, 2022, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to The problem was not removing DJ ] |
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us 7th in the country, with a QB who fell back into brokenness?
We intelligently adjusted the offense, and that's why we're currently #7, with what was a broken QB situation.
If you're suggesting there's some OC out there with magic schemes or magic playcalls that would allow a broken QB to succeed downfield, then you're not seeing things correctly. Streeter got as much water out of that stone as humanly possible.
By the way, how'd that same OC look with a capable QB?
Playcalling was what it was for OBVIOUS reasons. I don't understand what some of you expected with a QB who struggled mightily.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: The problem was not removing DJ
Dec 27, 2022, 8:54 AM
[ in reply to The problem was not removing DJ ] |
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False. It was absolutely not removing DJ. He literally threw a pick on the most important drive of the game, when we were up with 4 minutes left to seal the game. Thats not play calling. Also, play calling has to do with personnel and what they can do, which was crystal clear as soon as Cade came in during the ACC championship game. You can't do with DJ what you can do with Cade. So at the end of the day, regardless it's because DJ was in there. The fact that people are still arguing over why Clemsons offense couldn't move the ball and dismissing turnovers just blows my mind.
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CU Medallion [65512]
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Neither of those is as egregious as us Armchair Coaches
Dec 26, 2022, 9:12 AM
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thinking we know better than those who actually get paid millions a year to make those decisions.
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110%er [5013]
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You probably think our Prez & Congress never makes mistakes
Dec 26, 2022, 9:54 AM
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Either… ? Realize, just because some coaches get paid more in 1 year than we will over a lifetime doesn’t mean they don’t make stupid ### mistakes at their jobs. Look at how many millionaire coaches screw up teams and make poor decisions that cost their teams key wins. Remember Kevin Steele? Muschamp? Jimbo Fisher? Mike Norvell? Brian Kelley, Tammy Bowden?
The history of college football is littered with coaches who were or are being paid millions who have had to move on due to poor coaching decisions and poor outcomes. So this whole “trust the coaches getting paid millions” excuse is just that… AN EXCUSE! They make mistakes too and sometimes if they make enough bad decisions, they get canned!
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CU Medallion [65512]
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Re: You probably think our Prez & Congress never makes mistakes
Dec 26, 2022, 9:56 AM
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Ommmmmmmmmmm.......
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110%er [5013]
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Just because you can’t use your own eyes and brain to see…
Dec 26, 2022, 10:00 AM
[ in reply to Neither of those is as egregious as us Armchair Coaches ] |
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The obvious doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t. Armchair coaches my a$$! Even an idiot could see this coaching mistake from freaking mars! Good lort! ?
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Freshman [-79]
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Yet again, Dabo has explained to you hindsight, armchair dudes
Dec 26, 2022, 12:55 PM
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numerous times.
DJ played much, much better this year. He struggled against Syracuse. ND ran the ball at will, but then came back to play great and win the next 2 games handily.
That's why he started against USuC. In that game we jumped on them early and were winning until 10 minutes left on the game. Down by only 1 point as time was winding down, the starter who has put in the work and brought us there, he's going to get a shot to win the game.
That's what is actually "obvious". Anyone can pretend to know how to coach better when looking at things in hindsight.
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CU Guru [1575]
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Re: Yet again, Dabo has explained to you hindsight, armchair dudes
Dec 26, 2022, 3:26 PM
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We were down by one because of nine points scored by our defense. We were down by only one not because of DJ but in spite of him. What did he do in the 2nd half that helped the team?
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Freshman [-79]
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That changes nothing about my premise.
Dec 26, 2022, 7:06 PM
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And I can guaran-dang-tee ya Dabos thinking was just like I explained. Common sense really.
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CU Guru [1575]
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Re: That changes nothing about my premise.
Dec 26, 2022, 9:39 PM
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Well, that thinking assuredly cost the team a win. I’m not even condoning that Cade should have played. However DJ passing the ball was not the answer that day.
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Freshman [-79]
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You can't just line up and run against an 8-man front on every down.
Dec 26, 2022, 10:13 PM
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You have throw and get them out of it. And that's why we did.
Football 101, chief.
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CU Guru [1575]
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Re: You can't just line up and run against an 8-man front on every down.
Dec 26, 2022, 10:27 PM
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They ran the same defense against Florida. How was UF able to defeat UofSC?
If all it took to beat Clemson all year was a stacked box why didn’t every team do it? It takes more than throwing to make a defense worried about the passing game. It also takes completions. 9 of 29 ain’t gonna break an 8 man box.
I go back to my first question I asked you. What did DJ do in the second half that helped the team?
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110%er [5013]
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Freshman [-79]
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You change your gripe every day.***
Dec 26, 2022, 10:17 PM
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All-In [32656]
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And he said on some post that he was going to try
Dec 27, 2022, 10:03 AM
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and greatly reduce his griping . . . or something similar - I'm paraphrasing.
Lasted less than a day . . . ohhhh wellll - to each his own.
hufferbilly
G O T I G E R S . . . . . CRUSH IT in the Orange Bowl ! !
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110%er [5013]
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Notice I haven’t griped much lately?
Jan 6, 2023, 12:05 PM
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I’m waiting to see the changes Dabo makes on the O staff because I’m sure he realizes they need to score 35+ a game if Clemson is to hange with the elite teams next year…?
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Neither of those is as egregious as us Armchair Coaches
Dec 27, 2022, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to Neither of those is as egregious as us Armchair Coaches ] |
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Sometimes we do. A ten million dollar coaches doesn't make every decision perfectly. Dabo isn't Jesus. You really think Napier when he was OC was good? You think Steele was the guy? Or did you remember it as he was good until Dabo fired him and suddenly he was bad? This revisionist history with some of you guys is funny.
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110%er [5482]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 9:16 AM
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Good one. TU
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Legend [16259]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 9:20 AM
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Reggie led us all the way down the field on that last drive and there was no way on earth SCar was going to stop him with 1st and goal from the 4. Bowden pulling him for CJ showed a complete lack of game awareness, which was one of Bowden's hallmarks and why he was incapable of ever winning big.
Cade had not taken a snap and had proven nothing in the SCar game. DJ was certainly not his best but had delivered often in tight situations like that throughout the season. Last time Cade was put in a pressure spot in a tight game he made a terrible rookie mistake that dug us a deeper hole.
The two situations have little in common other than trying to assuage angry fans still unable to get over a tough loss. Recency bias is tough though as this latest loss was 30 days ago so there's a fresh sting to it.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 12:20 PM
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It was not CJ. He put in James Davis who was banged up.
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Team Captain [486]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 9:20 AM
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After the game, I thought about the Reggie thing, too. Both coaching blunders cost us the rivalry game (most important game of the year). 8-29.
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Freshman [-79]
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"Coaching blunders" did not cost us the game.
Dec 26, 2022, 2:38 PM
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DJ was winning games while Cade was developing. DJ played great in the 2 games prior to USuC, so yeah naturally hes gonna start. And then we were winning the entire game until going down by 1 with 10 minutes left. At that point in the game, the starter is going to get a chance to go win it, unfortunately he did not. I still say that if Antonio doesn't fumble that punt at midfield, then we find a way to pull it out on our last possession.
Regardless, all things considered, the coaches made correct decisions.
Unfortunately DJ ended up 27.6% on the day, and thats what cost us the game. That's not a "coaching blunder". We made the right decision to start DJ, and it was the right decision to give him a chance to win it with 10 minutes left.
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110%er [6858]
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nonsense. DJ wasnt winning sh**
Dec 27, 2022, 8:14 AM
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We won IN SPITE OF. HUGE difference. The staff continuing to trot out a lame horse every week was inexplicable.
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110%er [5013]
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Not running the ball and the Chinese fire drill on the
Jan 6, 2023, 12:11 PM
[ in reply to "Coaching blunders" did not cost us the game. ] |
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Kick off return were indeed coaching blunders. Way too much emphasis on passing the ball when running it was working just fine.
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Legend [17779]
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No Contest: Reggie
Dec 26, 2022, 9:22 AM
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Apples, oranges, yoda yada as well
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All-TigerNet [11067]
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let it go already!***
Dec 26, 2022, 9:23 AM
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CU Guru [1746]
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I say DJ but...
Dec 26, 2022, 9:26 AM
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I think the 06 Carolina game is more than just taking Reggie out. I went back not too long ago to see if my memory served me correctly and I found out that it was just taking Reggie out. It was more, why did you put James Davis back in and why did you pull Spiller?
Reggie didn't carry the ball all day until the final drive and his 1st 2 runs got the drive going. But it was also Spiller who really made the big plays to get us in fg range. Then another Reggie run and it was all over. Bowden put Davis in for the next 4 carries and we didn't get much. Davis hadn't played since the first drive of the 3rd quarter and was not very good on the day.
I haven't watched to see if Spiller was on the field the final 4 or plays but if not, why would you take arguably your best player off the field in that situation.
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All-In [44050]
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Easy, it was Tommy pulling Merriweather.
Dec 26, 2022, 9:27 AM
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Bowden pulled a player who was hit, which is far worse than Dabo not putting in a player who might have played well (and who might not have).
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Scout Team [197]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 9:42 AM
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DJ because 2 years > 1 game. Brutally long 2 years.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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I feel like Cade would have won that game too.
Dec 26, 2022, 9:54 AM
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I'm not going along with any certainty that he would have.
When looking back at historical event and hypothesizing that a certain change would change the results we can only be certain that the conditions would change. We can not be certain that the outcome whether the outcome would be better or worse.
I admit, I believe we would have won that game but you must admit that we have no way to know with 100% certainty that we would have won. There are too many possibilities to factor in.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 11:27 AM
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Why did Tommy pull Reggie? I forgot about that one.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 12:21 PM
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To put in ACC player of the year James Davis.
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Orange Blooded [3456]
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Faulty Premise
Dec 26, 2022, 11:35 AM
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No certainty except in your mind that either decision would have changed either outcome.
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All-In [46573]
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We may never know why? Dabo always has a plan
Dec 26, 2022, 11:40 AM
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Dabo has always had a plan & vision for his teams, it’s why we have been so incredibly good over the last 10-12 years.
If we wouldn’t have turned the ball over twice with a chance to win, a very uncharacteristic thing for a Dabo coached team, we always pull out close games.
We could have saved Cade for the ACC Championship & the playoffs and other teams wouldn’t have much tape on his tendencies.
Dabo is strategically as good as any coach ever at the end of the season, This would have given us momentum.
I think he never thought we wouldn’t win the SC game because we always pull out big games because we were so much more talented.
We have to move on because we know now probably as much as we will ever know about the situation.
Beat the Vols! Go Tigers!
Our biggest client is a huge Vol fan, I’ve tried to keep quiet about the game as to keep them happy, they fully believe they will beat us but they didn’t see the ACC championship with a QB coming in!
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Hall of Famer [22757]
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Freshman [-79]
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I'll say it again.
Dec 26, 2022, 12:29 PM
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Cade was developing as DJ was winning games.
DJ was winning the game, until we went down by 1 with 10 minutes left. Down 1, with only a couple/few possessions remaining, your starter, the one who brought you this far, goes out there and is given the chance to win. The only point where DJ would have been replaced (if more time was remaining) was when he threw a terrible INT on our 2nd to last possession. If there was more time in the game, Cade would've come in, but there were just a few minutes left and we're not benching the starter for a true freshman at that point in the game.
It's nothing at all like Reggie. Not even close.
Some of you guys need to accept the reality and how the situation played out. With the way the coot game played out, at no point i was it a good moment to bench DJ for Cade.
Just move on, man.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: I'll say it again.
Dec 28, 2022, 8:44 AM
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Quite possibly the dumbest excuse I've ever heard. You're right, he developed so much (in the same program with the same coaches that "developed" DJ) in a week (between SC game and ACC Championship) that he went from not being able to best 27% completion to setting the all time record for completion percentage in the ACC championship game.
That's the definition of following a narrative without thinking for yourself. I've even heard people make the argument that UNC pass defense sucked and that's the reason. Like SC's was good?!?!?
People find what they want to justify what they want. You sir, are using incredibly dumb logic to justify coach speak, which is trying to cover up a mistake. It's not all or nothing. Dabo is an amazing coach, AND he misjudged and slow played Cade a little too long.
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Associate AD [800]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 26, 2022, 1:26 PM
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Our fumbles and their elite punter cost us the game. Plain and simple.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 28, 2022, 8:46 AM
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This narrative is also funny to me. Everyone wants to look everywhere else in the game except the most obvious and consistently bad part. You're really going to ignore a 27% completion rate as a variable for stuff that is abnormal? You think punting mattered more?
That's out there, dude.
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Orange Blooded [3141]
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But the more interesting question is, IF we might have
Dec 27, 2022, 8:40 AM
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squeaked out a Coot win with DJ, then DJ would have probably still played in the ACCCG. Would DJ have returned next year?
I have a feeling that he might have. If we had somehow willed a win against the Tareholes, we might would have:
- a 3rd year of DJ
- a disaster in the QB room
- transfers everywhere, the offense falls in disarray
It's a classical eucatastrophe, out of something bad, something good happens.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: But the more interesting question is, IF we might have
Dec 27, 2022, 8:58 AM
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This is my biggest fear.
That our win over you guys this year actually helps you in the long run while hurting us :/
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All-American [564]
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Re: But the more interesting question is, IF we might have
Jan 6, 2023, 12:21 PM
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lol. Come on man. DJ was a 3K yard 30 TD guy. Now they have Klubdick, a HS kid, and Bear's grandson. I'm good with that.
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Asst Coach [702]
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All-American [564]
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Re: But the more interesting question is, IF we might have
Jan 6, 2023, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to But the more interesting question is, IF we might have ] |
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Wait, wait....your fear is you would have been "stuck" with a QB that just went 12-1, won the ACC and took you back to the playoffs?? For a QB that couldn't score a TD against the 116th ranked pass D?? Come on man. That's ludicrous.
I could be wrong...and if I am I'll wear it. But ya'll gonna miss DJ next year. Biggest wins this year? @ Wake, NCST, @ FSU. I think most would agree with that. In those 3 games DJ had:
Total Yards: 934
Total TDs: 12
Total TOs: 0
He had 2 really bad games. That's going to happen. Is your TEAM good enough to pick him up? That's the question. Against UT, it was a "no".
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110%er [8095]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10945
Joined: 2/10/11
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Re: Which is more egregious?
Dec 27, 2022, 9:47 AM
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The most egregious thing was Dabo not recognizing DJs flaws ALL season, and not putting Cade in several games. I'm sure during the IPTAY meetings Dabo will get asked if he has regrets about not putting Cade in earlier in the season, especially the SCAR game. Hopefully he will eventually admit his flawed thinking. I know there were fumbles in the SCAR game, but DJ was AWFUL, much like he had been all year.
So to answer your question: both decisions were egregious, but Dabo protecting and defending DJ all year is the most mystifying.
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