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Replies: 41
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All-Pro [657]
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Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 7:37 PM
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Pointers, flushers, and retrievers.
What is your favorite bird dog breed and why?
Go!
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CU Guru [1339]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 7:38 PM
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Retriever no doubt is the Boykin Spaniel. SC state dog!!
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All-In [27289]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 7:52 PM
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GSP all the way.
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CU Medallion [52144]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 7:53 PM
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My Dad (RIP) was about as big of bird hunter as there was. English Pointer was his favorite, but he also had a few German Shorthairs. He told me the best nose was on a English Setter but they would get matted up with cuckle burrs. By the time he reached retirement age, Bob Whites were few and far between. Most small farms were gone and so was the habitat.
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110%er [9023]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 1, 2021, 6:42 AM
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Same here. Grew up hunting quail behind an English. Wendy and Speckles - they were amazing. Hunted with some German SH (uncle's dogs) too, that were terrific. Tried an Irish Setter, he was a better pet than hunter. A shame all the quail went away, that was a great sport. Thanks for taking me back, bird hunting with my dad are the best memories of my life.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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You can blame domesticated and feral cats as well as fire ants..
Jul 1, 2021, 9:49 PM
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as main contributors to the decline in quail. Yes the reduction in small farms and the increase in pine tree farms didn't help but we have enough habitat in SC to have a great population of quail.
Since they are ground nesters, the fire ants find the eggs and hatchlings before they can mature. Then add in the thousands of feral cats across merica and all upland game birds have hard time except for turkey. Their dense eggshells and pure size allow them an advantage but they love the same habitat that quail like. Probably prefer acorn bearing trees more than quail but overall there is a huge overlap.
There was a study 8-10yrs ago in National Forest in middle Ga where they treated hundreds of acres for fire ants and within 3yrs there was a thriving population of quail. The game camera proved an almost zero population of feral cats but I think they had a black one the showed up later in the experiment.
So once again humans released invasives and it changes things for the worse.
I used to upland game hunt a lot and the pure work horse is the GSP but I have a boykin and I love those little dogs. Great workers but even better companions. My female is with me almost 24/7, doesn't matter if it's hunting, fishing, snow, sun or rain, she is ready to go. Work isn't near as much fun but she doesn't mind as long as she gets to hang out with me.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: You can blame domesticated and feral cats as well as fire ants..
Jul 2, 2021, 11:14 AM
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You beat me to it.
We still have plenty of habitat along dirt roads and farms. I read a really good article a few years ago that was speculating about the decline in quail and they interviewed a bunch of experts and the debate seems to be between pesticides and fire ants. And there is a growing consensus that fire ants are the leading cause.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: You can blame domesticated and feral cats as well as fire ants..
Jul 2, 2021, 7:26 PM
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My buddy is the quail biologist for Georgia and he is the one that performed the study. We were talking about quail and I guessed coyote and feral cats as main contributors for decline. He told me about the study and I didn't even think about fire ants at the time but makes sense. There are areas in Georgia national forest they have been treating for fire ants trying to find non-chemical and natural methods to control the numbers as chemicals are too expensive and time consuming. I don't think they have found anything great yet.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: You can blame domesticated and feral cats as well as fire ants..
Jul 2, 2021, 11:13 PM
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I agree. I never understood the pesticide hypothesis. Farmers have been using pesticides for a long time. If the culprit were pesticides the quail population would’ve started declining not long after farmers started using them, rather than decades later. Not to mention the fact that the pesticides used today are heavily regulated and not near as strong as the pesticides used years ago.
I remember back in the 70s and early 80s before I went to Clemson my dad had a brown 3 gallon glass jug of chlordane, which got outlawed in 1988. I think he had a stash of that until the late 90s.
Once a year he would spray it around the foundation and inside along the baseboards. It was so strong, even diluted, that you would smell it for a few days. We never ever had problems with termites, roaches, or any other insects!
Today, my pest company will spray my house once a year and I don’t smell a #### thing. If I leave a bag of trash under the sink too long or leave the screen door cracked etc. I will find bugs in the house.
That stuff was so strong my dad would dilute it and that 3 gallons lasted from the early 70s to the late 90s.
To show how ridiculous people are about pesticides and chemicals in general look no further than DDT.. it did a number on condors and Eagles and the environmentalists and the regulators freaked out. Rather than listening to the scientists the legislators banned DDT completely. The scientists, however, had found that DDT is so strong and effective that it can be safely used at significantly diluted levels. PPM levels so low it doesn’t harm wildlife. But the PR campaign, the propaganda, against DDT by the same vocal minority in the environmental community dictating legislation today convinced the legislators to be stupid and ignore the science and an DDT.
Outside of America many countries still use it and the WHO has recommended its use in Third World countries that still have millions of deaths annually from insect and pest borne diseases. But people are so freaked out even today from the propaganda of the past, plus environmental groups that still ignore the science, that many of these countries still refuse to use it! It’s crazy!
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CU Guru [1676]
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CU Medallion [53716]
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Llewellins.....unless the property you hunt has a lot of
Jun 30, 2021, 7:53 PM
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Cockleburrs
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Scout Team [161]
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Bykindore***
Jun 30, 2021, 7:58 PM
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All-Conference [423]
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GS Pointer
Jun 30, 2021, 8:02 PM
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I’m obviously biased. I had an English springer spaniel when I was at Clemson over 20 years ago. Needs frequent baths and lots of combing. A lil too protective even with close family members visiting. The last 9 years I’ve had the honor of loving a German shorthair pointer. I wanted the runt of the litter and I scored big time. Belle is super friendly and has never growled at me or anyone else that is within speaking distance. She will kill with licking you. Don’t get me wrong she barks at strangers until I speak or show friendship. Belle has grown up with both my children since birth. She whines like crazy when she wants to be played with. Only negative I have found is that she loves to dig holes either chasing crickets or lizards, or excavates out a cool spot underneath my boat. She doesn’t dig much. When belle was a puppy she would chew on everything, including the corners of my house and deck steps.
The wife and I look forward to getting another GSP “runt” in the near future!
Message was edited by: CRAWDAD®
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Orange Blooded [2120]
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Well English pointers and setters are the epitome of
Jun 30, 2021, 8:02 PM
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pointing “bird dogs”. Labradors are the supreme retrievers. However, my favorite companion is an English cocker spaniel.
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Legend [15501]
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Re: Well English pointers and setters are the epitome of
Jun 30, 2021, 8:22 PM
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My best dogs have been English Pointers. I have had a couple of good English Setters, but it's almost too hot for them where we live. I do like German Shorthair Pointers, and I have hunted behind some great ones, as well as a couple of very good Brittany Spaniels, but to me, although not as pretty, you can't beat the English Pointer for a meat dog. Some of the other breeds hunt to please their master, but Pointers hunt because they just love to hunt, and your presence is just an added benefit to get them to the field/woods.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I had an English Setter when I was a kid. He was strictly a
Jun 30, 2021, 9:24 PM
[ in reply to Well English pointers and setters are the epitome of ] |
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pet, was never trained to hunt and I never used him to hunt, but he would naturally, spontaneously go on point and hold it momentarily before charging ahead. A little on the hyper side, especially when young, but super intelligent, sweet, and well mannered. Great pet.
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Recruit [78]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 8:18 PM
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My family hunted with English/Lewellen Setters since early 1900s. I was told they hunted closer than the wider ranging pointers. We hunted quail, pheasant and woodcock with them. I had a blast in SC when I. Fought one with me when I was in school. Sadly it’s just a memory with so many game having vanished. The gun club birds are just not the same.
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All-In [30804]
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Don’t snub your nose at poodles
Jun 30, 2021, 8:33 PM
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They’re excellent duck retrieving dogs.
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110%er [6513]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 8:38 PM
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Sam Malone too obvious?
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 9:52 PM
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An English Pointer with his tail at 90 degrees when on point is a beautiful sight. Fond memories of hunting quail with my dad who raised and trained pointers and setters on the farm. He hunted nearly 50 Saturdays a year and had hunters come in from all over the Southeast every weekend. Sure do miss those days. Those bird dogs paid for my Clemson education.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 10:08 PM
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This is my favorite type of bird dog.
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Orange Blooded [4027]
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All-In [25888]
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Re: English Setters...particularily a Ryman English Setter...
Jun 30, 2021, 10:23 PM
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I worked at a quail hunting preserve years ago and the best dog I have ever seen was old pointer. I carried her out of the woods on her last hunt. The second best dog was a setter. Both fine, fine bird dogs.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 10:24 PM
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Labs and goldens are both the best retrievers. Incredible water dogs and have such gentle mouths they can hold an egg in their jaws. The best flushing dog is probably a cocker spaniel, because they can get into denser brush than most other flushing species (but the Boykin Spaniel is phenomenal). I've never actively used a pointer, but had a good friend with an English Setter that was amazing. But I hear Brittanys tend to be objectively the best.
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CU Guru [1339]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 1, 2021, 9:29 PM
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Just curious, how many Boykin’s have you owned or hunted as a retriever? I would put the Boykin above both you mentioned for duck and dove retrieval. I have owned and hunted both. I am exclusive to the Boykin now. Best dove dog I’ve ever had in the field. I’ve owned and hunted 7 over the years.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 2, 2021, 7:44 PM
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My boykin loves a good dove dove hunt. She often finds dove that other dogs have missed. At 7mos old she was doing as well as 3yr old labs. She has been a great flusher for quail, I like with boykins is they often dont range to far, and mine has often had a short point or studder, often a quick look at me to confirm there is a bird there then crashes. Very seldom hard charger on bird until she gives me the bird look but that may be the way I train? My dad's boykin was similar but was a little faster to charge the bird. I have had labs too and I love them, I just find boykin suits me better. Labs can bust brush and aquatic vegetation better when duck hunting. My boykin got tangled up in weeds retrieving ducks and got wore out where my buddy's lab could bust through it.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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English Setter
Jun 30, 2021, 10:30 PM
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Trained with a fly fishing rod and a quail wing.
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All-In [46430]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 11:01 PM
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Bird dog & Standard poodles are the easiest trained & both love to work.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 11:03 PM
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But at the end of the day, you have a poodle.
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CU Guru [1923]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 11:14 PM
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Nick Henry’s in Powdersville has the best bird dogs around. Am I right Spud?
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CU Guru [1669]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 11:25 PM
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Believe it or not, a poodle makes an outstanding bird dog.
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Standout [309]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jun 30, 2021, 11:28 PM
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I hunted with pointers as i grew up in rural SC, and most of them were very good hunters and excellent briar dogs. But living in the city as an adult meant little room for the larger dog. I got a Brittany Spaniel from a friend, and he turned into the best gun dog of all. I killed birds over that dog that I didn't even know I hit, but after a few minutes of absence, he'd return with the bird in his mouth. Easy to train, excellent pet with my children, and very tender hearted. My dad used to say that if a man owned one really good bird dog during his lifetime, he was surely blessed.
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Orange Blooded [3849]
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Best Bird Dog Ever?
Jun 30, 2021, 11:36 PM
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My Brittany Spaniel —RIP. Phenomenal Dog!!!!
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CU Medallion [55303]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 1, 2021, 1:51 AM
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As a scout for a professional field trial bird dog trainer in my early years, we won more field trials with pointers than any other bread of bird dog. In a field trial, if your dog flushes the bird, you're better off to get off your horse, pick your dog up, and put it back in the truck, bc it ain't winning chit if it knocks the bird/birds!!! The horse, oh yes, field trial dogs are worked from a horse bc those dogs are fast hunters that will get out of sight in just a minute.
For a meat dog, a bird dog used for putting meat on the table, Irish Setters, and Brittany Spaniel's are a good dogs for that bc, they are slow methodical hunters that will find the birds that are hidden deep in the brush, where the pointers are usually really fast hunters that don't waste time hunting in the thick brush. But they can be trained to be a meat dogs!!!
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Letterman [282]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 1, 2021, 4:31 PM
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Braque Francais aka French pointer. They look just like a gsp but are a tad smaller and have a much better “on off switch”. What I mean by that is gsp are hyper as hell all the time. Barques are ready to go when you want them to but can be very subdued any other time. I have many different breeds but I will never own anything else. They really can do it all. Quail, pheasant, ducks and doves. They also do well in summer heat in a dove field. Seriously give them a look.
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Letterman [282]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 1, 2021, 4:31 PM
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Braque Francais aka French pointer. They look just like a gsp but are a tad smaller and have a much better “on off switch”. What I mean by that is gsp are hyper as hell all the time. Barques are ready to go when you want them to but can be very subdued any other time. I have many different breeds but I will never own anything else. They really can do it all. Quail, pheasant, ducks and doves. They also do well in summer heat in a dove field. Seriously give them a look.
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CU Guru [1983]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 1, 2021, 5:13 PM
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Not to hijack the thread but anyone here have any experience with vizslas...specifically the wirehaired? I believe they are relatively new to the sporting dog category. Have read that they are an all around great gun dog but have never heard from anyone who actually owned one. Beautiful dog too.
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Tiger Cub [12]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 2, 2021, 8:35 PM
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I’ve hunted many times behind the tried and true English Pointer as well as GSPs and in this area we typically use Boykins or English Cockers as flushing and retrieving dogs. Pointers cover a lot of ground and if you’re on horseback or vehicle (South Georgia) they’re great to hunt behind. GSPs are hit or miss in my opinion and a lot of it depends on their training and temperament but the Vizsla is one of the best all around gun dogs I’ve ever seen.
I have had the opportunity to hunt behind one and I was shocked at how well the dog worked and did what was asked of it. A friend of mine who formerly guided hunts had always put down any dog outside of a Pointer so my expectations of the Vizsla may have been lowered but that changed quickly once the dog started working. I would say that it could have been this dog and it was anomaly, but after talking to the owner of the dog he said this is typically how all Vizslas are in the field. I can also say that because of this my next dog will definitely be a Vizsla.
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Starter [371]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 2, 2021, 9:47 AM
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English setter hands down. Easy going, loyal & reliable. Mine were out of grouse hunting stock from Minnesota so the were methodical & hunted pretty close. My favorite stayed in the house with me. Later I had 3 setters plus a chocolate lab. I rotated the setters and kept the Lab at heel. He went in to flush the point then did most of the retrieving. It was amazing how they worked together.
Sadly most of the quail are gone but some signs of recovery. I really miss the dogs and the great Southern tradition of quail hunting.
Setters tho unlike English pointers make great companions & pets as well
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110%er [5013]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 2, 2021, 11:49 AM
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I haven't hunted quail since the '80s due to lack of birds and the nature of them since they cross-bred with the Mexican birds and will no longer squat where they light after being flushed. Once that behavior began, it was hard on the dogs (and the hunter) because when they lit after flushing, they would run hundreds of yard in no predictable direction - but usually toward the bottom land and briars.
Back then I considered an English Pointer to be the best for finding birds if you had one that would hunt close when necessary. They were great "winders" and when the wind blew lightly could find birds in a flash and a good dog would hold them until you could catch up. Today's hunting in briars is hard on a Pointer's ears and tail, though and I always felt sorry for them at day's end with all of the cuts they sustained.
I considered English Setters to generally be better retrievers and close-in hunters - and normally with a softer mouth than a Pointer. They seemed easier to train and were generally better behaved.
My favorite hunting trips included one Pointer and one Setter, with sometimes a Lab tagging along for extra retrieving.
I once had a Dalmation that pointed quail coveys naturally - no training, but a perfect point and hold - looked exactly like a Pointer in action. Unfortunately he was gun shy and since he was a family pet I didn't have the heart to try to break him. He did make me wonder if Pointers were originally bred from Dalmations (given the similarity in body structure).
A friend asked me to take his Springer Spaniel hunting one day. The dog was a pet and had not been trained for hunting. We entered a pine timber stand and the dog took off straight for a large cedar tree. I tried to call him off, but he didn't listen and when he got to the tree which was beyond shooting range, out came a huge covey of quail that had been roosting in the tree - first time I'd ever seen a covey in a cedar tree. I decided then that it would be the last time I went hunting with a flushing dog.
I'm not sure what breed I'd want today since I don't like shooting pen-raised birds. Pointers, Setters or Spaniels would be fine if that's what you're going to do. I'd probably be satisfied going for a walk in a pine forest or around a farm with a setter or spaniel that would not range too far into the swamp and briars and get all cut up. Wild birds are hard to find these days and you run the chance of losing a Pointer that ranges too far, plus you can miss out on the best part of bird hunting, which (to me) is the communication and relationship with the dog.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 6, 2021, 10:57 AM
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Bird dog? Ok, Give me any coonhound.
I had an ol' redbone coonhound. My wife and I named her Georgia. I got her at some adoption even on Clemson's campus across from the Botanical Gardens. Named her Georgia because Georgia was my Bi....female dog. That and the paperwork said she was found in Tiger Georgia. She was a good coonhound. But she had a bad habit. She would tear after any chicken and really disturbed the chickens that were "hugged daily" down the street. She would appropriately tree everything but chickens as the often did not like them. Never caught on that you don't tree rabbits but oh well, good ol'dog.
One day, a neighbor's chicken got out and it was hit and killed out on the road. I was out walking Georgia and she spotted the mess of feathers. Georgia approached the carcass it and just started barking, and barking. Went on for 5 minutes, Georgia would not move on obsessed about a chicken that didn't move from her howlin'. Eventually, I guess that chicken had some post death twitch and did a weird leg-kick, flipped overish towards the dog as it was going to charge. Scared the heck out of the dog, and she broke off the leash and sprinted back to the porch. Was freaked out about the carcass for days, even after it was cleared.
Just goes to prove that dead chickens can chase off Georgia dawgs.
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Rock Defender [55]
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Re: Best bird dog?
Jul 6, 2021, 11:01 AM
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The Esso Club has a good one!
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