Real American Sniper was a hate filled killer.

Oculus Spirit [81305]

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Joined: 9/13/04

No. I'm just trying to figure out what you are really saying

Jan 21, 2015, 5:47 PM [ in reply to Probably because ]

You seem to be backing off some things and doubling down on others.

You mentioned the part about being in war invading another country that we had no business invading, twice. Kyle had no choice in that matter. No one there did. I think you're confusing the mission with the man.

And I take I take it from this:

He seemed to take pleasure and enjoyment out of killing people... so much so he missed it while he was with his family.[/]

You've never met nor known anyone who served during wartime.

Here's something you may want to read that can describe it much better than I ever could, from someone who has actually been there. You probably won't be able to understand it, but knowing some of those that came home, I feel like I could get a hint of it just by talking to them. They weren't crazy, but you'd probably say they were.

http://oafnation.com/2014/03/10/when-the-music-stops/

When the Music Stops

“I want to be dead with my friends….where the iron sharpens the iron.”-Every Time I Die

I am bearing witness to the end of an era. I have the distinct blessing, or the agonizing misfortune of having front-row seats to the death throes of a creature that has defined a generation. This creature is what my buddies and I refer to as the Global War On Terror (GWOT for short). 13 years, thousands of lives, trillions of dollars, and two presidents later, those of us who contributed our very being to this endeavor are left thinking, “What now?”

On May 23, 2013, POTUS Obama declared the GWOT “over.” Just like that. Done. Finished. It felt to my brothers and I, that our purpose in life had just disappeared.

Of course, we knew that there are still things going on in the shadows of foreign policy. Smelly, bearded extremists are still getting shot in the face in far-off lands. But, to the majority of us who had spent our entire adult lives finding, fixing, and finishing, our jobs were apparently over. We had sacrificed marriages, seeing our kids grow up, watching our parents grow old, witnessed our brothers deaths, and lost limbs for a conflict that we didn’t start, but were #### sure going to finish. We had been involved so long that it became us. Sure, some of us got out and made strides in veteran’s advocacy, tactical efficiency and efficacy, community growth, technological advancements, and improving quality of life for the layperson at home (i.e. the Perfect Push-Up). This writing is not for them. This is talking about the guy that has cut his teeth and dodged bullets since he was 18 years old and now has to try to find a place in this world….a world without the GWOT.

A friend of mine once said, “PTSD is the realization that you will never be this cool again.” He was referring to being on deployment, toting guns, and generally being a hard-ass. He was kind of correct. Once you wash the dirt and grit off and put on a clean shirt, you’re out of place in the civilian world. No one gets your jokes. Everyone wonders why you’re so insensitive to the plights of celebrities and pro-ball players. People view you as a victim, someone that somehow got duped into joining the military and marching off to fight, only to come home with less friends and more nightmares. You go to work at your job thinking that whatever you do today will never matter as much as what you did over there. You will never work as hard in this cubicle, office, ambulance, bank, or courthouse, as you did in the killing fields. You have this little voice in the back of your head whispering, “You will never feel more alive. It doesn’t get any better than those days.” Sadly enough, a lot of veterans are heeding this voice and going home and killing themselves, either with a gun or with heroin and Hennessy. The suicide rate is an epidemic and the VA is a joke. Personally, in my non-solicited and ultimately meaningless opinion, I think this is largely due to the fact that a guy went over and put in work, to come home to a government that doesn’t support him, and a public that doesn’t appreciate him. We live in a society that puts more effort and emphasis on Justin-fucking-Bieber than their neighbor who lost his legs in Ramadi. It doesn’t feel good when the media is more ablaze in memoriam for a celebrity that OD’d on the ####### than Chris Kyle or more recently, Aaron Torian. It stings a little when the Commander in Chief makes more phone calls to his travel agent and “brave” basketball players than to the widows of the fallen. Bottom line: empty thanks and the obvious look of pity don’t do much for a guy that feels lost at home without his brothers or people that REALLY care. But, I digress.

The last troops in Iraq left with little fanfare. Under the guidance of an apologetic administration, they left that country with their ears back and their tails tucked. To the guys at home at the time, they could no longer point at the TV and say, “I was there.” Afghanistan seems to be heading the same direction. One big-ass circle. The Taliban are seizing ground again, poised to take power, and the troops (from MY vantage point) are just hanging out in the FOB’s eating Burger King and biding their time, and why shouldn’t they? Our strategy in this country has been telescoped so far that the enemy knows when we’re going home! Why go out and put foot to ### when the shot-clock is down to the final second? No one is truly invested in the war. Again, my opinion. Hell, a staggering amount of troops here were 9-10 years old on 9/11/2001! It wasn’t even a “real” event to them, but rather an occurrence, handed down to them by parents and teachers and history books. They have no clue why they’re here. The commands don’t seem to give a #### about more than eye pro and glow belts. Karaoke night is priority numero uno. The ROE’s have been so neutered that they’ve become a detriment to the troops. Everyone is concerned about packing their #### and shipping out.

But, there are those of us that still feel we have more to contribute. There are those of us who aren’t meant for a desk. There are men in this world still willing to go out there, for whatever reason, and skull-fuck the enemies of the USA. But, is there really a place for us any more?

Some of us went back into the military, but are hitting the roadblocks associated with a large military drawdown. Some of us tried serving our communities, I myself became a paramedic, but grew bored rather quickly. Some of us went the PMC route, which is perfect to an extent. I get to tote guns and hang with the boys and count racks of cash. But, that world is dying down as well. My question is: “where do we go when the world no longer needs us?” What happens when the reason you got out of bed every morning for 12-13 years, isn’t there anymore? Especially when you know that the whole game was mishandled. It’s hard as #### sitting back and watching the talking heads talk about the “mistakes” and the “futility” and asking “was it worth it?” when you have had to bury more friends than most people know their entire lives. It’s very sobering to think to yourself, “MY war is over.”

Maybe it’s the way it goes. Maybe, those of us that still have more to give, are destined to sit on porch in a rocking chair or a bar stool at the VFW and talk about the “good ol’ days” with our buddies. My fear is maybe we’re going the way of Gran Tourino. As much of a badass as Clint Eastwood’s character was in that movie, he was still a sad, bitter, old man. Another movie reference is the grocery store scene in “The Hurt Locker” (regardless of the movie, that scene was powerful).

My other fear is that the world will bury what we’ve done. The history books will refer to our endeavors the way I learned about Vietnam. The story I was told by my teachers was wildly different than the stories my father shared. His wasn’t stories of mistakes, his was a story of brotherhood and sacrifice. Thus is the divide in my generation. My brothers and I tell stories with passion and pride, and my non-serving peers think: what a waste of a life. It may have been a waste, time will tell, but it was a glorious waste. I “wasted” my life seeing the very best of a generation of MEN stand up and go do what was asked of them. I “wasted” my life in third-world shit-holes, knowing my brothers cared more about me than the girl at home. I “wasted” my life watching guys risk and give their lives for one another. I would not ask to “waste” my life any other way. I will also do it as long as I can. My only question, echoed by thousands of GWOT vets is: “what now?”

-Grifter

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"You started off on this "Iraq war thing is wrong!" (twice), then backed off that."

You're right. I did say the Iraq war was wrong. Not once have I ever in my entire life backed off of that, and you can ask folks who remember me poking badgers about it on this board 10 years ago. Show me an EXACT QUOTE where I said it wasn't wrong or backed off it.

..."then you say Kyle was crazy because he was proud of what he did (then say you didn't say it)..."

Show me an EXACT QUOTE where I said Kyle was crazy because he was proud of his service. What I said was that Kyle ENJOYED killing people (he actually used the word "loved"). What I said was that he missed it while he was home with his family (his words). He said he had competitions to see how many people he could kill as if it were a game. He lied about killing American citizens and being proud of it.

So yes, in those areas, I'm saying the man had something off upstairs.

... then I show you maybe he wasn't that crazy missing wartime from the experience and words of other vets, and you're back to "HE WAS A LIAR!"

What you showed me was poignant, honest, reflective, and thought-provoking. I'm not getting that out of what I'm reading from Kyle's comments.

I don't know what he said or didn't say, and for the most part, I'd bet you don't either. I know what I've read he said, but that sounds like almost like folklore at this point. I won't take anything he said or did at Lindy West's word, that's for sure.

I guess that's the crux of the problem. We don't know what he said that's true or not. All I can do is go with his quotes on the topic. Maybe Kyle lied to himself, too, and actually hurt on the inside.

If he id do that, what is your 20/20 hindsight corrected way to stop armed looters after a hurricane destroys a city?

The fact that he seemed so callous about killing fellow Americans (if true) is disturbing. Remember, Kyle claimed before that he enjoyed killing America's enemies. Now it seems he enjoys shooting anyone.

You know, when you talk to people who actually have to help treat vets who killed in combat, there's usually some serious psychological #### going on with them, right? Kyle was an anomaly in this regard.

So what are you really looking for here? A "hey..you're awesomely right!"? Well you already believe that, don't you?

That would be awesome, actually. Can you mail me a certificate?

Seriously, though, you're engaging in the classic Internet fallacy of claiming someone said something they didn't, and then insisting over and over that they did so you can knock down the argument. Why are you so obsessed with getting me to admit I said something that I did not? Does it look like I give two ##### about backing off what I really believe in?

^^^ dont respond unless you agree ^^^***

Re: ^^^ dont respond unless you agree ^^^***

Crash aint reading that drivel. Liberal trash...***

Re: Crash aint reading that drivel. Liberal trash...***

Why do you hate Umerica?***

Re: Why do you hate Umerica?***

This is the P&R Board. We don't read.***

OK fine, I read it.

Re: OK fine, I read it.

Re: Real American Sniper was a hate filled killer.

This is really the worst piece ever

I read it. What are your thoughts?***

Okay...here are my thoughts. I'm not sure if I'm more

It's not the best argument (that article)

You should see some of the other stuff she's written

Wow Cam, if I didn't know any better

Yeah, I read that last night

Did he killed white people in the book, but expressed

Perhaps I should rephrase that...

But then don't say it.

Yes, dad.

I'm glad he wasn't "a normal human being"

You're entitled to your wrong and stupid opinion of me.***

And you're entitled to generally be wrong and stupid***

Don't get butthurt, son. Go pick up some baby powder.***

Re: Don't get butthurt, son. Go pick up some baby powder.***

I have no problem with any of those comments.

Ok, man. You do you.****

Re: But then don't say it.

Who is simplistic now?

Let me help you

Re: Let me help you

Re: Let me help you

Re: Let me help you

"In a country we invaded. A country we had no business

Nope

I'm getting mixed messages from your posts

Probably because

Na, he's got it pretty much exactly right***

Re: Na, he's got it pretty much exactly right***

No. I'm just trying to figure out what you are really saying

Um...

It's still pretty obvious you don't get it.

You are very correct, sir.

Maybe you should read your own posts that are all over the

OK

^^^^cheers for Somalis when watching black hawk down***

Re: Um...

What if he should be criticized and glorified?

Re: What if he should be criticized and glorified?

Re: What if he should be criticized and glorified?

Re: No. I'm just trying to figure out what you are really saying

This seems to be what he's trying to say. I guess.

That's not...

Catahoula only comes on here lately to say similar stuff***

The people he killed were savages

I wonder what this woman thinks war really is?

I think your view is too simplistic

Re: Yeah, I read that last night

An even better analysis and source

Generally speaking

"It is a dangerous thing..."

On that basis, there shouldn't be any heroes

Hero

Re: On that basis, there shouldn't be any heroes

^^^ SOLOS scok? ^^^

I actually think camcgee believes that.

Iraq was a stupid war.

Let me spell this out pretty clear.

Well..yeah, you are.

So...

Exactly. It really doesn't matter.

Re: Exactly. It really doesn't matter.

Exactly

I have no problem with Kyle being a war hero

Well, yeah, for sure***

Is the movie funny? Are there ##### in it?

There are ##### but they get holes shot in them.***

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