Replies: 36
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CU Guru [1305]
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Littlejohn rebuild or renovate
Jan 31, 2013, 2:32 PM
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I think it would be wiser to renovate Littlejohn rather than build a new stadium. Sure we don't have the best college basketball stadium in the ACC or even the state but I don't think building a new stadium would pay for itself. First off, most home games are on week days and Clemson being so isolated from large population areas decreases the need for many seats. Also, lets face it basketball is third or fourth tier in the line of Clemson sports according to the majority of fans (behind football, baseball, and football recruiting). I don't think spending hundreds of millions from our athletic department on a new basketball stadium would pay for itself. Most ACC schools value basketball first over other sports. This is not so at Clemson and thus the money would be better spent in programs that do matter most to the fanbase. I think we could renovate the LittleJohn, build up Doug Kingsmore to rival Scar's stadium and finish the planned additions around Death Valley with our money.
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Heisman Winner [119748]
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Understand but this is not
Jan 31, 2013, 2:34 PM
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THE BEST WE CAN BE!
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Walk-On [133]
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Re: Littlejohn rebuild or renovate
Jan 31, 2013, 2:38 PM
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Where you're wrong is thinking Doug Kingsmore isn't already a better baseball venue than that chicken coop down in Columbia.
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Fan [65]
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Re: Littlejohn rebuild or renovate
Jan 31, 2013, 2:43 PM
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Build a 9,000 seat modern stadium with students close to the court and you never know how this thing could blow up.
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110%er [8142]
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This is the direction they'll go if they decide to build new***
Jan 31, 2013, 2:53 PM
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110%er [9065]
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I can't see building a new coliseum - given our record......
Jan 31, 2013, 2:44 PM
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historically in basketball, that might be like pouring money down a rat hole.
Sure, we've had some good years in Littlejohn but some of our best basketball years were back in the old days when we played in Fike Fieldhouse.
Our record since building and improving Littlejohn sure hasn't guaranteed basketball success.
I don't mean to sound like a defeatist but it's ###### hard to overlook reality when it comes to our basketball history.
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Oculus Spirit [96873]
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One question about your post...
Jan 31, 2013, 2:53 PM
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what cuss word is 6 letters???
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: One question about your post...
Jan 31, 2013, 3:04 PM
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f'n?
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110%er [6937]
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Legend [19697]
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If SCU had it to do over, they'd have remodeled the old
Jan 31, 2013, 3:02 PM
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Carolina Coliseum. Was a great venue to watch basketball, just needed a facelift. GT just remodeled maybe the worst college arena in history in Alexander Coliseum and it is now state of the art. We could do the same with LJ. No need to build a new arena roughly the same size, which is all we need seating wise. Should just remodel LJ and build a basketball complex annexed to it similar to the West Endzone
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CU Guru [1746]
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Agreed...
Jan 31, 2013, 3:00 PM
[ in reply to I can't see building a new coliseum - given our record...... ] |
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it just doesnt make financial sense to build a new arena.
It looks pretty nice after the last renovation. It has an appealing look and we even have a practice facility and separate weight room for the basketball guys and gals.
What good would it do to build a new 10,000 seat arena?
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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With that kind of attitude...
Jan 31, 2013, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to I can't see building a new coliseum - given our record...... ] |
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how do you ever expect the program to get better if you don't put any money into it and treat like a redheaded stepchild. The ACC is a basketball league. Clemson needs to give the men's and women's basketball programs everything they need to compete and recruit at the national level. Just ignoring basketball isn't going to get it done. What an embarrassment some of you supposed "fans" are.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Heck, we need to drop women's basketball altogether.
Jan 31, 2013, 3:08 PM
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Maybe, we, already, have.
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110%er [9065]
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I've been around Clemson basketball since the 60s and....
Jan 31, 2013, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to With that kind of attitude... ] |
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have seen numerous attempts to "excite" and "revitalize" the program or whatever you want to call it - have never seen any of these efforts truly work - am not just going to expect it to happen, especially with the success our football program is having.
I just don't see the BOT putting the money and energy and emphasis into basketball, especially given our success in football.
IMO that's just facing facts - has nothing to do with me not being a "fan."
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All-TigerNet [12218]
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Re: I can't see building a new coliseum - given our record......
Jan 31, 2013, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to I can't see building a new coliseum - given our record...... ] |
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How can you look at our record historically for a sport we have historically not given two s***s about? Are you for just not caring for the next 40 years? I know I'm not.
If Clemson basketball is a slightly better product then we can tap into a revenue stream to help other programs become successful.
Clemson Football, Baskeball, and Baseball need to be the focus of this administration. All 3 working together will prove to form a hugely successful athletic department
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Baseball and basketball...
Jan 31, 2013, 5:00 PM
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need to be the focus areas of this adminstration. Football's been taken care of pretty well by the previous one.
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Orange Blooded [2644]
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Re: Littlejohn rebuild or renovate
Jan 31, 2013, 2:58 PM
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Neither now. Given the student support, they would be better off having all mid-week games in Greenville.
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CU Guru [1153]
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Add an Oculus to LJ...
Jan 31, 2013, 4:33 PM
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If you build it...they will come!
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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Men's basketball is a money sport
Jan 31, 2013, 3:01 PM
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If Clemson is ever going to be a factor in the ACC, we must do something major for basketball. Football gets all it wants. With Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, and Louisville joining ACC basketball, the opportunity to make money will dramatically increase. Brad Brownell is doing a hell of a job. To rank men's basketball behind baseball and football recruiting is a major insult. This should not even be a debate. Duke is never going to replace Cameron. Everybody else in the ACC has a place that is much newer than Clemson's Littlejohn. It is time to be Clemson fans, not just Clemson football fans. You need to get on board. I believe this is going to be done and it is going to be done in a hurry.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Bo, you don't throw good money after bad money.***
Jan 31, 2013, 3:03 PM
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Legend [19697]
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No reason a complete remodel doesn't do the job though
Jan 31, 2013, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to Men's basketball is a money sport ] |
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just like Radakovich led before leaving GT with Alexander Coliseum. Why build a new arena the same size? All we need are 10K seats. Remodel and build a hoops complex annexed on to LJ like the West Endzone
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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GT did more than remodel
Jan 31, 2013, 3:48 PM
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Basically the only thing left from the old arena is the roof.
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Legend [19697]
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So why can't we do the same?
Jan 31, 2013, 9:13 PM
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certainly nothing wrong with LJ's location. And LJ is in far better shape than Alexander ever was
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Its called allocation of resources
Jan 31, 2013, 3:46 PM
[ in reply to Men's basketball is a money sport ] |
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Take football out of the equation. Its going to get what it needs to compete. The administration is finally on to that.
But when it comes to other sports, which sport could have the most bang for the buck and more efficently use the money?
The new lockerrooms at Beautiful Tiger Field and those additions are relatively cheap in comparision to the money needed to rebuild a basketball stadium. And baseball is much closer to being back at that elite level than basketball (much like football pre-WEZ).
I'm not saying that basketball doesn't need an infusion, it does. But it will require much more for much less gain relatively speaking.
So small money = big gain should be done before big money for smaller gain.
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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rebuild -- use Maryland exit money***
Jan 31, 2013, 3:19 PM
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CU Medallion [64593]
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We should have leveled it and started over in 2003....
Jan 31, 2013, 3:32 PM
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before spending $31 million to renovate it.
Very poor decision IMO.
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Aficionado [172]
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I agree. The building is still very limited in what it can
Jan 31, 2013, 4:21 PM
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host. It has no load docks, no ballrooms, or other money-making areas. Buildings must be multi-purpose and LJ is very limited.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Finish the baseball stadium stuff first
Jan 31, 2013, 3:40 PM
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then address the basketball building.
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110%er [6219]
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Didn't we JUST renovate Littlejohn?***
Jan 31, 2013, 3:42 PM
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All-TigerNet [12218]
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Re: Didn't we JUST renovate Littlejohn?***
Jan 31, 2013, 4:58 PM
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If you call JUST over a decade ago then yea we just renovated that s*** stain
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110%er [6937]
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Re: When you all come up with about $15 million. let the
Jan 31, 2013, 6:38 PM
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rest of us know then we will help with the remainder.
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CU Guru [1153]
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It depends really...
Jan 31, 2013, 4:31 PM
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Not being privy to the athletic budget, how much tax dollars would be used, cash flow, debt load, etc. it is really hard to make that decision from a fan's perspective.
At first glance, I like the idea of a new arena if it is doable and doesn't hamstring Clemson's budget. A new arena would not need to be big because Clemson's location will never bode well for filling up a huge arena. Numerous weeknight games makes it even harder. Just something nice like Auburn's new digs. You can make the case that College of Charleston even has a better arena than Clemson does.
If they renovate Littlejohn, it needs to be gutted to the bare bones. Not sure if this is more cost effective or about the same as starting from scratch. How many of you have completely remodeled a house? Sometimes it is just as costly to build new.
I'll reserve judgement on which way to go if and when the proposals for both are made publicly available. However, the thought of something completely new is appealing.
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: Littlejohn rebuild or renovate
Jan 31, 2013, 4:50 PM
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LJ needs to be rebuilt. There is more than just basketball to be considered. LJ needs to be a multi event facility. Right now, there is no maintenace elevator in the building. All the trash from the building comes up the passenger elevator on to the concourse and taken outside. The lockerrooms are located on the mid level and players, including the visiting team must take the stairs to the court level before, at halftime and after the game.
Suites are what drives revenue in arenas and in order to sell suites you must book concerts and the building as it stands right now is very limited. No loading dock for easy load in and out for concerts. The basketball floor needs to be portable so it can be removed and put down as needed.
Performance is directly related to facility improvements, you can set your watch by it. Death Valley's improvements in the late 70's led to our run in the 80's. We are seeing the results from the West Zone now. Some of our best basketball came right after Littlejohn was built in the late 60's with the Tree Rollins, Rome, and Wise era.
Littlejohn has served us well, as did Fike back in the day, but it is time to move forward. We are either serious about being the best or we can just go thru the motions. To me, if you are going to keep score, then we need to win. We do not need to settle, because that's the way it has always been in basketball.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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The problem with renovating...
Jan 31, 2013, 4:58 PM
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is that to do the kind of work that GT just did would mean giving up Littlejohn for an entire season. At least in Atlanta, GT had other options for playing their games that were convenient. There's nowhere in Oconee, Pickens, or Anderson counties that could host Clemson basketball for an entire season. Playing in Greenville would be a scheduling nightmare because of all the other events in the Bi-Lo Center. As much as I love Clemson baseball, I don't know that I'd be willing to attend 36 games at Fluor Field in a season. The same can be said for 15 home basketball games a year. Building a new arena on campus is the most practical option; Littlejohn is still available while the new place is under construction. Build a 21st century version of Fike; a building that has numerous functions besides basketball. Make one of the "practice gyms" big enough to serve as a home for the women's basketball team and the volleyball team. Move the athletic ticket office there, as well as athletic administration offices. Include a facility for the Clemson Athletic Hall of Fame (ditch the museum at Death Valley).
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Walk-On [132]
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Re: The problem with renovating...
Jan 31, 2013, 11:47 PM
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Also good points. I still love LJ and hope major renovations are enough.
http://ow.ly/hjM0k
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Walk-On [132]
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Re: Littlejohn rebuild or renovate
Jan 31, 2013, 11:44 PM
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I agree and wrote about it here: http://ow.ly/hjM0k
Please give a look, comment, maybe even consider liking.
But to your point, maybe we could use some renovation and the new practice facility, I love that, but I also love LJ.
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Head Coach [757]
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I love LJ and it's location....
Feb 1, 2013, 12:08 AM
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regardless of what's done it needs to be in the same location as it is now.
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