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All-In [27159]
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The lust for death is the issue.
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May 8, 2023, 9:57 AM
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You won't solve mass shootings until we figure out why people suppress their humanity in order to kill indiscriminately and at scale. Yes, it's mental health, but not in the way we normally think about mental health.
https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1655276519240114178
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Legend [17313]
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Why do crazy Americans lust for death? They’re crazy!
May 8, 2023, 10:10 AM
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What specifically can be done about crazy people? Guessing treatment and potentially institutionalize? But will it make a difference?
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All-In [27159]
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Oversimplifying the issue by saying "they're crazy" is not
May 8, 2023, 10:20 AM
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helping. Some of these people are "crazy" -- like Jared Loughner, or to some degree Adam Lanza -- but most aren't. The only thing that makes them "crazy" is their ability to kill indiscriminately, which is not a natural human thing to be able to do.
Dylan Roof wasn't crazy.
The Buffalo guy wasn't crazy.
The Uvalde guy wasn't crazy.
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CU Medallion [58460]
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I agree that ultimately, that is THE issue, and if we could
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May 8, 2023, 10:12 AM
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figure that out, we'd just about have it whipped. I think the question is, until then, do we continue to allow those crazy people to have access to weapons that make these mass killings easier to carry out? I think that is the choice we are faced with for now; further restrict gun ownership for everyone, or allow the mass shootings to continue.
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All-In [27159]
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This is why I'm so hard on red flag laws.
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May 8, 2023, 10:22 AM
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As Lakebum says, the potential for abuse is real and high. But I just don't see how any other tool can address the issue where people with absolutely no reason to fail a background check can get a firearm.
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CU Medallion [58460]
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Red flag laws are highly problematic.
May 8, 2023, 10:37 AM
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The problem with this issue ("how do we significantly reduce mass shootings?") is that there are solutions, but not any that are comfy-cozy or satisfy everybody. It won't get fixed until a lot of people decide they've had enough and are willing to give up a little something.
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All-In [26517]
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Its not Ultra-Maga ? That's what we've been told is the
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May 8, 2023, 10:23 AM
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problemo.
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110%er [7218]
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It's similar to a concept called social and cultural distance.
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May 8, 2023, 10:42 AM
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Because it's extremely difficult to take a life, you can dehumanize people by essentially other grouping them. Instead of concentrating on the fact that they're people first, we emphasize the differences to imply that they are some how less than human. Shirley, no posters here ever complain about the culture of certain groups of people though.
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Heisman Winner [119770]
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Still think violent video games numbs some young minds
May 8, 2023, 10:47 AM
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To the true brutality of real gun violence
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110%er [7218]
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A small part of a broader pattern of glorifying violence.
May 8, 2023, 10:53 AM
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You can add unrealistic tv/movie violence, manliness being associated with aggression and dominance, gun culture, etc. One of those cases where it's an obvious problem with no simple solutions.
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All-In [27159]
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I consider these to be the two biggest cultural factors in
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May 8, 2023, 11:04 AM
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mass shootings:
1) Loss or abandonment of traditional, person-to-person social groups in favor of disconnected "digital" relationships. And, in some cases (particularly when the shooters is motivated by white nationalism), these online relationships are a breeding ground for radicalization.
2) Toxic gun culture. I've posted on this many time, but the fetishization of guns that's prominent on social media today has turned the firearm into both a fashion accessory and golden calf. The effect is that the firearm, the AR-15 in particular, has become something of therapy for the social outcast; that owning it makes them feel equalized to the people who have slighted them. At some point, the feeling of equalization turns into a need for revenge. The Parkland shooter is an example of this.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: I consider these to be the two biggest cultural factors in
May 9, 2023, 10:41 PM
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Can you say Hip Hop culture?
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All-In [42219]
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Heisman Winner [119770]
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Where’s it at?***
May 8, 2023, 11:08 AM
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All-In [27159]
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: Where’s it at?***
May 8, 2023, 1:00 PM
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Well. Back to the drawing board.
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All-In [27159]
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You were on the video games cause violence train?
May 8, 2023, 1:13 PM
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That's a little surprising.
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All-In [42219]
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Re: Where’s it at?***
May 8, 2023, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Where’s it at?*** ] |
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You know, I'm firmly in the camp that guns aren't to blame, but the people who scramble to find some OTHER inanimate object to blame instead of the guns look extra ridiculous.
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [42219]
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Re: That's been debunked many times
May 10, 2023, 7:33 AM
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Again:
-Violence has existed for centuries. In fact, our civilization is far, far less violent than it was back then. No video games or violent movies.
-Not a single mass shooting has been linked to video games as the cause.
-First person shooters are the most popular genre and millions play them without killing anyone.
-Violent video games may be even more popular in Japan, and they don't have this problem.
-Violence in America went on a steady decrease as first person shooters rose in popularity.
I don't blame guns. But we can't blame video games before guns. Guns are more of a factor.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: That's been debunked many times
May 10, 2023, 10:29 AM
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All-In [42219]
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We're still a young nation born out of violence
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May 8, 2023, 10:53 AM
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A nation that has celebrated our ability to bring violence to solve problems. Somewhere that has to be in the equation; I admittedly have nothing scientific to add to that argument, but I don't think it's fair to compare America to centuries-old European nations that have been through their share of violence for quite some time.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: We're still a young nation born out of violence
May 9, 2023, 10:40 PM
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We weren't born out of violence. In fact it's remarkable as to how little violence was involved in emancipating ourselves from England.
The Uncivil War was the demarcation point in our history where violence was perceived as solution to conflict.
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All-In [42219]
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Re: We're still a young nation born out of violence
May 10, 2023, 10:16 AM
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In fact it's remarkable as to how little violence was involved in emancipating ourselves from England.
LOL wut
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Lower intelligence also correlates with higher aggression
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May 8, 2023, 11:29 AM
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and less impulse control, I think that's a big component of it that doesn't get talked about. You've got a lot of people trying to compete in a high tech society without the cognitive ability to make it, that leads to anger and resentment. And it will get exponentially worse with the covid kid generation, because while many of them weren't on their way to curing cancer anyway, they were at least getting some passive socialization with the larger community. That went away for awhile for a lot of kids.
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All-In [27159]
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Roof is a poster child for missing IQ as a check on
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May 8, 2023, 11:40 AM
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impulse control.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Yep, and think about the intelligence level of your average
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May 8, 2023, 12:29 PM
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violent criminal. I like watching the First 48 on A&E, in many of the interviews they are clearly dealing with people who are functionally retarded.
Detective: "Why'd you kill that lady?"
Suspect: "Cause we needed a car"
Detective: "Yeah but you didn't need to kill her"
Suspect: "We needed her car though"
Detective: "What if someone did that to your mom? How would you feel?"
Suspect: "They didn't tho, and we needed her car"
It's a type of person with a certain kind of mindset that I think a lot of people have a hard time understanding exists. Killing other human beings doesn't register with them as being the abhorrent act we all find it to be, it's just the next step they think they need to take at the time to achieve their goals. And those goals might be to make a broader social statement, or to simply find transportation.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: Yep, and think about the intelligence level of your average
May 9, 2023, 10:46 PM
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Yet these types are created equal to everyone else.
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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It will never end.
May 8, 2023, 11:36 AM
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The “time out” and “everyone gets a trophy” generations; are all growed up.
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Heisman Winner [138032]
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That must be what it is.
May 8, 2023, 12:10 PM
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All these mass shooters got a participation trophy at some point. I don't know how you could draw a more direct line than that unassailable connection.
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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So you’re dismissing “guns” based on your own response.***
May 8, 2023, 12:21 PM
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110%er [7218]
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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And who raised those generations?***
May 10, 2023, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to It will never end. ] |
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110%er [5694]
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Re: The lust for death is the issue.
May 8, 2023, 7:11 PM
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There are probably a dozen 'causes' that one might develop to cover the majority of killings. But they would not be that 'satisfying' because the cause-and-effect relationships can be very complex.
When we describe someone as 'grounded' what does that mean to you? Which people in your life would you describe as grounded and why are they like that? Take the inverse of grounded and seems like you'd get characteristics that lead to problems.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: The lust for death is the issue.
May 10, 2023, 1:09 AM
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I think that to ignore the omnipresence of guns in our society, as opposed to our peer nations, is kind of dumbfounding.
"Lust for death?" You don't think that western Europeans have similar cultural exposures, as it were?
I do think (and you do, I believe) it is important to differentiate between (broadly speaking) crazy, stupid, and evil, when assigning motivations.
"Everyone getting participation trophies" is one of the more baffling comments I've ever read on here, as if "participation trophies" (whatever the heck those are) are motivating people to kill people? That's a case of taking something you don't like and inventing a connection between that and a bad outcome.
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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I thought this was an abortion thread***
May 10, 2023, 7:02 AM
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Associate AD [828]
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All-In [27159]
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I agree with NC_Tiger_.
May 10, 2023, 9:11 AM
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It makes much more sense to look at people's driving records as a marker of mass shooters, as opposed to, say, online radicalization on race issues, being an incel, and every other profile trend this guy fits.
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