Re: The Elect

p6fuller® · 2023-10-08T07:49:20.986Z

What do the Elect look like, in your opinion?

Fordtunate Son

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Oct 8, 2023, 4:41 PM

I think the term "elect" is used in a few different ways in the NT. But in general it seems to mean those who have chosen to believe in Jesus.

Now, those could be gentiles who believe, or they could be Jews, or Jewish Christians, who believed in Jesus but also all the older Jewish ritual stuff.

Here's a few examples of the usage:

Matthew 24:21 "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

In that case, at the end of the world, mercy will be shown to all because of those few elect.

Mark 13:22 "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

In that case, even the living elect can be fooled, so they seem to have no special protection.

Matthew 24:31 "And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

In that case, the elect could be anywhere on the earth, not just limited to Israel.

Romans 11:5 "So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written: “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see."

This one is really interesting because it implies there is a group that is chosen by God, without even their belief, perhaps, but purely by grace. And even more strangely, it seems that their blindness was due to God himself: "God gave them a spirit of stupor."

And in these verses, it seems like anyone who believes in Jesus can be an elect, Jew or Gentile, or in Heaven:

Titus 1:1 "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth" (again, God choses them here regardless of belief)

1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia..."

1 Tim 5:21 "I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels..." (in Heaven, as angels, too)

And here it again sounds like the "elect" are those who do not believe.

2 Tim 2:10 "Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus..."

So the meaning seems all over the place, depending on who's using the term, and when, I think.

It could be the Jews who don't believe in Jesus
It could be the Jews who do believe in Jesus
It could be the Gentiles who believe in Jesus
Or it could be non-believers
or any combination

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The last reference is the one most unlike the others you mentioned because, as you say, it could refer to all people, making 'elect' and 'everybody' seemingly synonymous. This would make the other references almost meaningless, except as they would apply to "everybody". Is this another of the alleged inconsistencies?

A few paragraphs above that line, in the same letter, Paul says to Timothy: "He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus ...."

Most people know this, but it helps to remember that the definition of "holy" as "pious" is modern, not the original use, certainly not the Greek word from which it is translated. That word has a religious connotation, but means "different" or "set aside". Jesus said he was not "of the world", and that his followers were thus also not "of the world", though left "in" it. (John 17) When "holy" is used in the bible, it seems to mean that. Home is now with Him, not here.

So, Paul is saying that this identity of differentness was given before creation of the universe. Does this mean the redemptive plan was known by Him then, or was also actually given to "elected" but future people? Welcome to that ongoing debate, an unresolvable one because the 'grace was given before time', but is received afterward, so no one bound by time can understand the difference between the plan and who receives it.

But no matter. Either way, your last reference, given that it was said in the same line of thought as the above, would seem to mean something like, "I dont know who they are yet, and they dont either, yet, but my purpose is to go find them."

Message was edited by: CUintulsa®

The Elect

Re: The Elect

Re: The Elect

Elect means chosen.

Re: The Elect

Re: The Elect

That fits the profile of OT Hebrews like Abraham...

We look just like everyone else.

Re: The Elect

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