Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
110%er [5156]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5757
Joined: 5/15/05
|
Obama pushing normalized relations with Cuba.
Dec 17, 2014, 12:20 PM
|
|
Good or bad?
|
|
|
|
All-In [33418]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 32207
Joined: 2/20/04
|
Smoking Cohibas on the beach of Havana?
Dec 17, 2014, 12:26 PM
|
|
Sounds good to me
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75725]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 108854
Joined: 10/26/03
|
Good. I think they have a lot of parts for '57
Dec 17, 2014, 12:27 PM
|
|
Chevys in Cuba.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30195]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31802
Joined: 9/13/01
|
Re: Obama pushing normalized relations with Cuba.
Dec 17, 2014, 12:32 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
Probably bad from a human rights perspective
Dec 17, 2014, 12:37 PM
|
|
Good from a making money/ tourist perspective. No surprise which one won out. On the other hand, I guess you could argue that opening up Cuba to the US could cause its people to see how much better things could be.
There are some pretty powerful people in Charleston who have been pushing for normalization of relations with Cuba for a while now, because they want Charleston to be the main port for travel/ shipping to and from Cuba.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30195]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31802
Joined: 9/13/01
|
Wouldn't one change the other?
Dec 17, 2014, 12:38 PM
|
|
It's just silly that there is still hostile relations between the US and Cuba in 2014.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
It's silly that Cuba is the way it is in 2014
Dec 17, 2014, 12:40 PM
|
|
I don't know why it being 2014 would make it silly that we're still treating Cuba like the outlaw it continues to be. And while I think there's potential for a more liberal economy to liberalize the country, China has shown that's not always the case.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [56106]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31650
Joined: 8/27/02
|
Because in 2014 the Cold War has been over for 20+ years.***
Dec 17, 2014, 1:02 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
And yet, Cuba still does what it do
Dec 17, 2014, 2:38 PM
|
|
The cold war was about the Soviet Union, so why would the disappearance of the Soviet Union mean complete normalization with Cuba? Maybe we should also end sanctions against North Korea, and maybe we should also disband NATO. After all, both of those things have something to do with the twenty- years-past Cold War.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [81078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56152
Joined: 9/13/04
|
"some pretty powerful people in Charleston "
Dec 17, 2014, 1:37 PM
[ in reply to Probably bad from a human rights perspective ] |
|
Who? I've never heard this come up before.
SOB'ers won't even let a new cruise ship terminal be built; they aren't about to turn the Market into little Havana.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
Re: "some pretty powerful people in Charleston "
Dec 17, 2014, 2:37 PM
|
|
There's a whole crew of people associated with the port who have been lobbying for this to happen for a while. A 5-term Congressman from Charleston was pretty involved with them before he retired..
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [81078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56152
Joined: 9/13/04
|
You mean Brown?
Dec 17, 2014, 4:12 PM
|
|
Well, we see how popular he really was when he couldn't win town administrator.
But yeah, the SOB'ers won't be standing for that.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
His popularity has nothing to do with it
Dec 17, 2014, 5:44 PM
|
|
The point was that there are people in Charleston who have been working towards this for a long time, and they have the ear of people in government.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22718]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46006
Joined: 3/27/08
|
Re: #twotermz***
Dec 17, 2014, 12:40 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [45047]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38460
Joined: 8/26/03
|
THIS POST BELONGS IN THE POLITICS FORUM!
Dec 17, 2014, 1:10 PM
|
|
Forcing me to read this crap is cyber bullying!
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [78876]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78623
Joined: 8/2/03
|
Why? Is the subject matter over your head?***
Dec 17, 2014, 1:28 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [45047]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38460
Joined: 8/26/03
|
NO, because the first word in the thread is OBAMA. He ain't
Dec 17, 2014, 1:29 PM
|
|
welcome up here in the junge!
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [78876]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78623
Joined: 8/2/03
|
So that one tiny word in a post makes you mad?
Dec 17, 2014, 1:35 PM
|
|
You have a really short temper.
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [32958]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 53106
Joined: 3/5/02
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11208]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14057
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Long overdue. Sure, Murrica hates Castro
Dec 17, 2014, 1:31 PM
|
|
but we made him what he was/is. I'm not saying he didn't do some bad chit, but think how differently Cuba would have evolved for the good of its people had we supported, or even been lukewarm, to the Castro regime during its infancy. Batista had been a dictator in his own right, so why not roll with the change instead of creating a "red scare"? We practically pushed them into Russia's embrace.
To me, it's the end of 50 some odd years of failed policy.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30195]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31802
Joined: 9/13/01
|
Damnn right, Slac***
Dec 17, 2014, 1:34 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
What it sounds like you're saying is...
Dec 17, 2014, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to Long overdue. Sure, Murrica hates Castro ] |
|
that the US only has enemies because it wants enemies. You give the US too much credit, even while criticizing US policies. Perhaps that's also why you're so sure supporting Castro would've led to better outcomes than opposing him.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11208]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14057
Joined: 9/2/03
|
That's too broad a generalization. It wasn't our intention
Dec 17, 2014, 4:22 PM
|
|
to create an enemy 90 miles off our shore. We simply fumbled the policy ball. Batista was just as bad a guy as Castro, only difference between them was Batista's coziness with US govt. We knew he killed and imprisoned people at his leisure and was a dictator in every sense of the word.
When he was ousted we sat idly by and watched things unfold. With Cuba in turmoil, we could've offered humanitarian help to it's people and helped organize some sense of order to the new government, established a relationship with Castro. Granted, our role as world police had really not taken hold just yet so we were pretty new to this type stuff. So instead of making the people of Cuba a priority, we denied them help they needed because we didn't particularly like the new guy in charge. We denied Castro trade opportunities and branded him a commie and turned him into an enemy. Had we looked at the base equation of good relations with neighbor vs. bad relations with neighbor the right thing to do would've been clear.
We should've told Castro, "Listen, we don't really like how you did it, but we didn't really like the last guy all that much either. However, you've got a lot of problems down there and a population that is dire need of order. We can establish diplomatic relations and trade to help you get your basic commodity supply lines back up and running. We can provide humanitarian aid to your people. As order is restored and things normalize our companies can help rebuild infrastructure and our countries can develop stronger economic relationships and investment opportunities. Let's do this without killing a bunch of folks and both our countries will be the better for it. You work with us and we'll make you look like a good guy in all this and we'll all be fine."
Instead, we decided he was too commie for us and sat on our hands while Cuba went to chit, allowing the Russians to later sweep in and save his ####. Had we put our focus on helping people instead of labeling their leader a communist or a socialist/a catholic or a protestant/a good guy or a bad guy, thousands of people would not have needlessly died in the ensuing chaos.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37202
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Seems to be a lot of assumptions with your argument...
Dec 17, 2014, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Long overdue. Sure, Murrica hates Castro ] |
|
there.
I don't claim to be all that well-versed on Cuban history, but looking at it strictly from how things are now (which is what should matter most), why should we normalize relations with a brutal dictatorship that shows little to no signs of embracing reform?
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11208]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14057
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Now is a pretty ripe time to make a move that can
Dec 17, 2014, 4:53 PM
|
|
help a neighboring country. Fidel and Raul ain't gonna live much longer and they've gotten 50 years of crippling mass poverty to show for their relationship with Russia. The Russians can't help'em anymore. ####, Russia can't afford to buy a pi$$ ant a pair of combat boots.
On the whole, Cuba's doing OK. They aren't imprisoning people right and left and killin' those they don't like anymore...I would hardly characterize them as a brutal dictatorship today. They have their basic amenities, basic education, and their own little version of Obamacare. But they also have a lot of poverty for a fairly well developed nation.
Think China. Why did we develop an economic relationship with China? How did we develop an economic relationship with China? We didn't like their communism or their human rights record, either. Obviously, Cuba is not China and will never threaten to become a super power, so the dynamic is a bit different. The basic reason we did all these things with China is that stable economic relations stabilize both countries in a geopolitical sense. They know who we are and we know who they are and though we do things differently we can agree that it's a good thing to make ourselves stronger on the world stage.
Same thing with Cuba. Benefit to us is economic growth, investment opportunity to American companies,and stabilization of a political wild card that happens to live next door. Benefit to Cuba is a little injection of capitalism to help their economy that can lessen the burden of poverty, capital investment on their shore, and an end to the isolation they've experienced for the last 50 years.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7013]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5127
Joined: 8/30/14
|
FoxNews comments section is in meltdown mode.***
Dec 17, 2014, 2:49 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [32958]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 53106
Joined: 3/5/02
|
Re: Obama pushing normalized relations with Cuba.
Dec 17, 2014, 3:06 PM
|
|
Thank Tom we did such a great job with China.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
The only aspect I care about with this is
Dec 17, 2014, 3:23 PM
|
|
baseball, so I see this as a good thing, if the Braves can get another bat.
|
|
|
|
Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
|
|