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110%er [7723]
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Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 4:45 PM
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quite frankly, Tony Elliott is just so-so as a playcaller
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 4:52 PM
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No me. I like him.
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 5:06 PM
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Consider the source
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Orange Blooded [3427]
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He could be a CEO type HC but he is not an offensive
Jan 20, 2020, 5:07 PM
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mastermind. An offense with TL, Tee, ETN, Ross and Amari should have broken offensive records.
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: He could be a CEO type HC but he is not an offensive
Jan 20, 2020, 5:15 PM
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Since they played half a game I bet if you took their numbers and doubled them there are a few records to be had.
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Orange Blooded [2922]
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Yes...I’m not sure why people either....
Jan 20, 2020, 5:23 PM
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Forget that out of convenience or forget to do that math.
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Orange Blooded [2347]
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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Re: He could be a CEO type HC but he is not an offensive
Jan 20, 2020, 6:49 PM
[ in reply to He could be a CEO type HC but he is not an offensive ] |
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mastermind. An offense with TL, Tee, ETN, Ross and Amari should have broken offensive records.
mastermind. An offense with TL, Tee, ETN, Ross and Amari should have broken offensive records.
mastermind. An offense with TL, Tee, ETN, Ross and Amari should have broken offensive records.
Eliot had no answers against LSU’s blanket coverage ... Trevor 48% passes completed
Share the blame, both equally beaten by the best secondary I’ve ever seen play us This!
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: He could be a CEO type HC but he is not an offensive
Jan 24, 2020, 5:11 AM
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But the Clemson offense started the game with tempo, swing passes and plays to the edge that were neutralizing that secondary, stressing the linebackers & were working. He got away from those type of play calls and never went back to it at all after the first possession. He also abandoned the run game that was working. I do love the guy, but sometimes his flow with play calling is suspect.
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 5:14 PM
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Consider the source
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110%er [8244]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 5:35 PM
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Call it what ever you like I have a question when he makes the statement after a game about things he knew he should have done more of before a game but did not do them during the game Many games now he has made this statement
You might catch me with my hand in the cookie jar but my statement will always be I was putting cookies in the jar
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CU Guru [1260]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 25, 2020, 4:21 PM
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One game versus the entire CFP era?? Yeah, ok.
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CU Guru [1260]
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quozzell has never called a play in his life, let alone for
Jan 25, 2020, 4:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot ] |
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a team who has 2 national titles in 4 years. Not running ETN more in the natty sucked, but gosh darn, let's look at the bigger picture shall we? Quozzel has claimed Elliot is "so-so". What other so-so playcaller has dominated the CFP years other than Elliot? What "great" playcaller has done what Elliot has done in the CFP era? It's cool being upset over the natty, but the "Elliot is so-so" nonsense needs to stop right away.
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CU Medallion [58427]
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I'm sure a lot of t-netters know a lot more about
Jan 20, 2020, 5:24 PM
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football than I do, but I always get a good laugh when people on here start criticizing things like playcalling. Unless it's a bubble screen, of course.
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110%er [7723]
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You mean like quozzel?
Jan 20, 2020, 5:42 PM
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Because he knows more about football than 99.9% on here. That's why I quoted him. If he says it, then it can't be that crazy of a conclusion.
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110%er [7169]
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One of the few statements you've made that is correct.***
Jan 20, 2020, 6:18 PM
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110%er [7723]
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Re: One of the few statements you've made that is correct.***
Jan 20, 2020, 9:45 PM
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All-In [30838]
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posting a lot of words doesn't make
Jan 24, 2020, 10:11 AM
[ in reply to You mean like quozzel? ] |
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You an expert on OCing.. I believe being the OC makes you an expert on OCing
I think.. like 89%.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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it's not so much that they know more than you and me...
Jan 20, 2020, 7:13 PM
[ in reply to I'm sure a lot of t-netters know a lot more about ] |
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but that they know more than Dabo and the football experts who have considered Elliot for other jobs.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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I always get a good laugh when folks
Jan 24, 2020, 9:22 AM
[ in reply to I'm sure a lot of t-netters know a lot more about ] |
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who disagree with certain criticisms just reflexively accuse the critics of not knowing anything b/c, whilst missing the implicit assumption that they themselves, are knowledgeable enough to accurately assess those critiques.
Not saying you *aren't* knowledgeable, indeed you may be, but that's not arbitrated by which side of the CTE debate you're on.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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correction: "b/c they are on t-net"***
Jan 24, 2020, 9:22 AM
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,,
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All-TigerNet [11067]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 5:59 PM
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I would just text any suggestions or feedback on Elliot directly to Dabo. That seems to work.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 6:15 PM
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110%er [8681]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 6:16 PM
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Well quozzel said it so it must be true.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 6:35 PM
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quite frankly, Tony Elliott is just so-so as a playcaller
I like him, but this is a place of discussion. He pushed the panic button. He abandoned the run game completely. The defensive scheme dictated run and he continued to pass. I am sure he learned from it. He is a great man and a great coach.
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All-American [560]
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place of discussion? In theory only****
Jan 21, 2020, 8:27 AM
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Head Coach [768]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 22, 2020, 8:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot ] |
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Some of these posts are not anti Coach Elliot...just folks who see things that might work at certain times without knowing what's happening upstairs where the plays are called...If you've played much football and look at the game closely and understand play sequence and coverages and such things can be noticed an on this website folks have been known to post them...Elliot and Scott did a better job calling and changing than our last coordinator who was supposed to talk to 'GOD'..but he did not talk Arkansas to GOD! Don't think anybody is really griping at Elliot...some of it might have been Scott...we'll know soon...right!
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Tiger Cub [13]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 24, 2020, 12:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot ] |
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Aranda ate Elliott’s lunch ... Every Bite!
Aranda beat Elliott up and down that Dome and embarrassed him in that critical 8 minute period.
Four scores in fourteen drives?
Held to 8 lousy points when ahead 17-7 ???
Outscored 35-8 in a rout ...
Mercifully at the 4-yard Line LSU halted their embarrassment and took a knee with 50 secs when Saban would have scored and went for two to make it 50-25
Then Aranda took Elliott’s Bonus $$$ and his wife’s new pair of shoes ... And his vacation to Bimini ... No raise for Mr Elliott, No Sirreee
I won’t even mention marginal playcalling in NC & against OSU ...
Personally, I think Elliott gets “graduated” if he doesn’t cowboy up against ND, NC, AL or LSU & OSU ... Just sayin
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CU Guru [1260]
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Aranda didn't cause TLs worst game in his life, nor
Jan 24, 2020, 9:08 AM
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did he cause us to go away from the running game. But he baled out on you anyway, so good luck with that
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 20, 2020, 10:26 PM
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I'm hardly an expert, but I don't and honestly have never considered Tony Elliott a great playcaller...and nor do any of the film junkies, really.
He's not a bad OC, mind - you don't generate the kind of consistent offensive production Clemson generates year-in and year-out and be a bad OC - but he does strike me as a little by-the-numbers and unimaginative, and Clemson leaves a lot on the table with its passing game...which, again, is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know.
The first part is both good and bad. It's good because we rep so many guys and I suspect season-to-season continuity is part of why Elliot does limit what he does. The more complex your playbook get the more you have to rep your starters and the smaller your pool of contributing players gets...and that's bad. Take a look, for instance, at Bobby Petrino, was a master playcaller and a had an enormous playbook. He played about 12-14 guys on offense and as they started getting dinged his offense fell off a cliff by the end of the year. Playing Petrino in the first half of the season was a nightmare. After midseason his teams were a MASH unit.
It's bad because the more you do the same things, the more people get a book on you. People know us too well now. And if you go and watch the way guys like Petrino or Spurrier or Lincoln Riley or even lesser-known guys like Tim Albin at Ohio (the Bobcats, not Ohio State!) can scheme guys just ridiculously wide slap open you do sometimes get a little...envious.
We are going to have to get more sophisticated on offense, especially in our passing game. Whether or not Elliott is able and willing to make those adaptations, I suspect, are going to determine his real mettle in the future. But Clemson has been pretty good at self-assessment in the past and I am hopeful that will happen. And the good news is that Clemson's got guys like JP Losman on the staff now who do have those kind of concepts and background; I suspect their input is going to start filtering in a lot more.
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CU Guru [1260]
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"is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know"
Jan 21, 2020, 4:49 AM
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I'm calling BS.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: "is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know"
Jan 21, 2020, 6:50 AM
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I'm calling BS.
Oh. Okay. Go take a look at the heat map again. We're an edge offense, especially with passing. We do a disproportionate amount of damage outside the hash marks and rarely if ever attack the middle of the field even when it's being left wide open for us. Most of what we do with our passing game is baseed off RPO, especially with man-beaters, and teams have done their homework now and are using what's called "single high" safety structures and playing a lot of pure man...leaving the counter to that being either vertical or rub/scissors routes (which people aren't falling for as much anymore...watch how guys get around the rub now and blow up the receiver).
Usually we still just win enough of those vert matchups to make the fact that they've got the right defensive call on irrelevant. But when you run into teams with really good corners - like, say, Ohio State and LSU - it really limits you because your wideouts aren't winning enough matchups on the outside.
Take a look who did most of the damage against OSU - Travis Etienne. On wheel routes. The Buckeyes seriously roughed up our receivers, all night long. Another big play was the one time we actually went to our slot receiver, Amari Rogers. But they stoned our RPO game for the most part.
Nobody did a whole lot of damage against LSU (and then we compounded that by abandoning the run on top of us even when it was working!) Definitely not Tony Elliott's best night ever.
The key to that is calling a lot more passes across the middle that attack single-high man coverage, but we didn't do that this year and we seriously need to start. Again, there's a ton of pro concepts guys like JP Losman could certainly work into the playbook...and precisely because Clemson is usually so good at self-assessment I suspect that's about to happen.
RPO is the new triple option...and people are starting to figure it out. This year kind of shows Clemson needs to develop a Plan B for when the matchups aren't in our favor.
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Scout Team [184]
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Re: "is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know"
Jan 21, 2020, 5:58 PM
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Wow. This is golden. Thanks for posting.
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CU Guru [1260]
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So you don't have any evidence of, "an opinion shared by...
Jan 23, 2020, 11:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: "is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know" ] |
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a lot of folks in the know"?
Got it. That's what I thought.
Me, I tend to look at what we've done offensively over the period Elliot's been in the booth. It pretty much completely overrides any notion that we aren't "great". Good but not great? Get outta here with that mess. It's downright silly to suggest we haven't been great.
"I don't and honestly have never considered Tony Elliott a great playcaller...and nor do any of the film junkies, really"
Again, I'm calling BS. Who or what the heck are "film junkies"? Name them. Are they fat guys, who never played the game, hovering over their laptops watching youtube videos? That's what I see. Gimme a break.
When I look out over the college football landscape, I see bunches and bunches and bunches of teams trying to emulate our "unimaginative" offense. We are pioneers. Gimme a break, Quozzel. You write nice stories, but this one is way over the top.
What do we gotta do to be considered "great"? Who are all these alleged "great" playcallers, and why aren't they winning national championships like us? Look, you didn't like the national championship game, and neither did I, but the complete and total resume speaks for itself. We have been GREAT on offense for years. Please stop with the hot air.
"Rencher will run for 500 yards"... did people in the know tell you that?
Please get off Elliot's back. The man has done a fantastic job for us, and he doesn't need advice from ANYONE on this website. Criticize the national championship game for the lack of staying with the running game, and I would agree, but to paint with such a broad brush is ridiculous.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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Call BS if you like - but it's irrelevant . . .
Jan 24, 2020, 9:18 AM
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let's just grant that he has no sources for that. Now what? The criticism still stands, and like has already been said, we are not great at alternative planning when our edge strategies don't produce sufficiently. Granted, that's rare, but that's the nature of the beast when you start playing the OSU's and LSU's of the world instead of the GT's and the SC's, right?
This doesn't mean we need to throw Coach Elliot under the bus - by no means . . . but the constructive criticism is warranted.
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CU Guru [1260]
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No. The broad brush criticism does not stand.
Jan 25, 2020, 4:32 PM
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Please look at the overall results. Losing in a national championship game, after adjusting to beat OSU, does not constitute "so-so". An unprecedented run to 2 national titles in 4 years, based on large part on playcalling, is not "so-so". I was angrily frustrated watching us get pass happy against LSU and playing right into their hands, but it's not going to cloud the overwhelming evidence suggesting we have been great. Elliot is not perfect (who is?), but he is one of the best in the business, no question whatsoever.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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What worries me is that our fans can see this pattern in the
Jan 24, 2020, 12:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: "is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know" ] |
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Pass game. We have a ton of analyst and it’s not changing..
Makes me think someone is stubborn
Hopefully we can add in some fresh routes in the offseason. We don’t have the variety we should. Slants and whip routes , combo routes, bunch package ,etc. we need to get our WRs open. It can’t be all jump balls and back shoulders.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: "is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know"
Jan 24, 2020, 10:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: "is an opinion shared by a lot of folks in the know" ] |
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I think a lot of the problem stems from when KB was QB.
The offensive playcalling went ultraconservative and it didn't recover when TL took over.
They never let KB throw over the middle because his passes tended to float and they knew we could not afford turnovers that season. We had to play a lot of ball control and limit gamechanging plays from the other team.
When TL took over we were highly successful because he was just so much better at the same plays. We also added the deep threat again, but he has clearly been instructed to throw "safety deep balls". When nobody was covering Justyn Ross it worked great but defense have adjusted.
I get it because Venables is going to put a product on the field that basically eliminates the need for high scoring games on offense. If ok to take our time and let our studs be better than the other team in 90% of games.
There are basically two options at this point for Clemson fans. Admit that Elliott is not the most creative or diverse playcaller or admit that our current WRs are not in the same class as Watkins, Hopkins, and the rest of their group.
Somehow we let that WR corp use the entire field and it created a ton of space for the offense.
There is a reason we don't have that space now.
Which is it?
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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I didn't even think about making this connection
Jan 24, 2020, 11:16 AM
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but this could be the root of our issues. We need to let Trevor use the whole field, he can make literally EVERY throw.
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All-American [560]
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 24, 2020, 9:49 AM
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To be a viable critique you should first have greater success than the victim of your criticism. Prove yourself first. I don't agree with it, but I understand the Brownell hate, but all we've done since Elliot was made co-coordinator is win. Today is a good day to rain thumbs down on the haters.
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All-TigerNet [14472]
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Re: Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot
Jan 24, 2020, 9:52 AM
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User Logo gtriple® 110%er [7154] TigerPulse: 100% Posts: 5731 Joined: 12/15/15 Still seeing a lot of negative posts on Coach Elliot [2] Posted: Jan 20, 2020 4:45 PM Reply
quozzel said:
quite frankly, Tony Elliott is just so-so as a playcaller
LOTS OF IDIOTS IN THIS WORLD. YOU BEEN WATCHING THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL. ME EITHER. AND PLEASE TELL ME YOU DO NOT READ QUOZZELS TRIPE. THE GUY LOVES TO SEE HIMSELF TYPE.
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