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TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
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TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 1:18 PM
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Orange Beast [6165]
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wes cant put his finger on it he says
Nov 9, 2022, 1:23 PM
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well get a defensive coach who can i mean practice is all well and good but it aint the game.
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Head Coach [931]
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Re: wes cant put his finger on it he says
Nov 9, 2022, 1:43 PM
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The problem is practice. Soft vs Soft or an incredible defense that has to play down to a soft offense. Coaches keep telling us they can't see the issue of why practice is not translating to game play. Its because we are SOFT V SOFT
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Clemson Conqueror [11508]
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Re: No hitting for any team during in-season practices
Nov 9, 2022, 6:49 PM
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Every team has 'soft on soft' during in-season practices. There's no hitting.
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Orange Immortal [62797]
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Re: wes cant put his finger on it he says
Nov 9, 2022, 7:54 PM
[ in reply to wes cant put his finger on it he says ] |
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Wes Goodwin is W R O N G, the biggest egg laid that night was by the coaching staff not having team prepared, and not having a clue of what adjustments to make at any time of game, or at half time. I would believe it if I was told that they all took a nap at half time!!! When people are inadequate at their job, most will always blame something or someone else for their inadequacy!!!!!!!
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Tiger Titan [50716]
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Standout [224]
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And there it is
Nov 9, 2022, 1:34 PM
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Davis has come the closest to admitting it. The D took ND too lightly, and were in awe of their own #4 ranking. Once you come in that way you can’t gin it back up. You need an excessive talent gap vs the other team to overcome it. Funny, I would have thought the talking heads’ complaints about rankings would have given our team a chip on their shoulder. Dabo is usually pretty good at that.
Of course the offense’s absolute incompetence only threw more trash into that dumpster fire of a performance.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101029]
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Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 1:36 PM
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to even admit that outloud!!
Geez~
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Orange Immortal [62908]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 1:47 PM
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^^^ POTY ^^^
We've been able to get by all year because we've been the more talented team. One would
think just the opposite. That the team would have been too juiced up going somewhere like ND...
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Orange Immortal [62797]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 7:58 PM
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I believe they were juiced up, but the juice contained grain alcohol!!! 
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Standout [224]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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I’m guessing it was so bad he could not help but say something. What no one will admit is the leadership vacuum left by Skalski/Turner/Spector has not been ….adequately filled, especially with Venables gone. I want to like Goodwin, but football is an emotional game especially on defense, doubly so defending the run. Goodwin doesn’t seem to have the ‘fire’ for lack of a word, especially compared to Venables who seems to stay on fire. Wins mostly covered this up.
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Commissioner [1218]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 3:31 PM
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I look at the sideline and see someone unable to motivate his players pretending to be BV...
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Clemson Conqueror [11508]
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Re: (#1) B.Spector vs. T.Simpson at WLB
Nov 9, 2022, 7:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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One of Goodwin's comments ... combined with your observation about last year's D leaders ... resonates with me.
(*) T.Simpson at OLB as the replacement for B.Spector.
Although I did re-watch the entire ND game, I had focused on our OL and DL and RB blocking on blitzes. Didn't put the time in to watch the LB play. So the following is a 'general feel' observation.
Seems to me that Spector managed his gaps on non-blitz plays better than does Simpson.
We seemed to have fewer 'busts' on outside runs to the weak side when Spector had played; the busts seem more common since Simpson was moved to WLB as Spector's replacement.
Our DL (including D-Ends) are very similar from 2022 vs. 2021. So this isn't likely to be due to personnel deficiencies at the D-end position. Although I did re-watch the entire ND game, I had focused on our OL and DL and RB blocking on blitzes. Didn't put the time in to watch the LB play. So the following is a 'general feel' observation.
If the gaps aren't properly played, it doesn't matter if the LB is Ray Lewis or #### Butkus.
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Clemson Conqueror [11508]
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Re: (#2) MLB: J.Skalski vs. J.Trotter / K.McGuire
Nov 9, 2022, 7:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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On to the next example of how your (rebeltigersteeler) observation + Goodwin's comments re: last year's leaders on D resonates with me.
(*) J.Trotter / K.McGuire at ILB as the replacement for J.Skalski.
(Repeat of disclaimer: I did re-watch the entire ND game, but didn't focus on the LBs. The following is just my 'general sense' of the situation.)
From the physical and 'by the individual LB only' perspective, both J.Trotter and K.McGuire seem to know where to go and what gaps to hit nearly as well as Skalski.
Both Trotter and McGuire are noticeably faster than Skalski.
However, although Trotter and (especially McGuire) are excellent tacklers, Skalski was tremendous when making the take-down. Skalski also tackled very well when he was flat out pooped. Trotter, on the other hand, plays the most ILB snaps and therefore gets pooped like Skalski did. But Trotter's tackling gets poor when he's pooped. That's a 'mindset' that the coaches cannot teach mid-season because hitting is not allowed and practices simply do not provide the 'suck it up and tackle' feedback loop to players. Skalski's experience made the difference here.
(***) The intangible (but clear to see) difference was Skalski's knowledge of the defense and his confidence to communicate that knowledge pre-snap to the other defenders. There isn't anyone on our current defense that has that true 'seen it all, done it all, will tell it all' confidence and knowledge that Skalski had. To be fair, Skalski was in Year 6 in 2021. Trotter is in Year 2, McGuire hasn't played enough IMO to have acquired that knowledge.
Trotter especially shows signs of becoming the Skalski-type 'coach on the field' ... but he's not there yet.
Not just our LB Corp, but the entire defense misses the experience and confidence that Skalski had provided.
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Starter [299]
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Re: (#2) MLB: J.Skalski vs. J.Trotter / K.McGuire
Nov 9, 2022, 8:09 PM
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I totally agree. It shows up the most in run defense. 6th year LB vs 2nd year LB is huge.
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Clemson Conqueror [11508]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 7:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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Final part to my 'ah ha' moment thanks to your (rebeltigersteeler) observation + Goodwin's comments.
(*) B.Carter as SLB replacement for T.Simpson.
(Disclaimer: Re-watch the entire ND game, but didn't focus on the LBs. Just my observations FWIW.)
SLB play was exceptional last year. I believe that Skalski played a big role in getting T.Simpson into the right spot, T.Simpson's talent could then show through.
B.Carter played limited snaps compared to T.Simpson last year, and for many of those 2021 snaps B.Carter didn't seem to know where to go or what he was doing. That's OK ... B.Carter was a true FR playing big time minutes in big time games as the key back up to T.Simpson. But B.Carter did not have nearly enough of the benefit from Skalski's 'coaching him up on the field, while playing in the game' tutorials.
Next, here is the arm-chair coach after a few beers recommended fix:
(1) Move T.Simpson back to SLB. He knows how to play there, and has the speed necessary to be effective at that high-skilled position. Simpson was lighting in a bottle at SLB; let him be great again in the position where he had already proven himself.
(2) Move K.McGuire to WLB. McGuire appears to knows the LB positions quite well, and runs well enough (and tackles well enough) to be good at WLB.
(3) Put B.Carter as roving between Nickle-back and Safety. He's already doing the NB / S / SLB job which seems to be too much for him (since he also loses gap control).
Since W.Goodwin had always preached that simplicity and knowing where to go is better than fancy schemes where people don't play as fast (or as well), then let's see Goodwin's actions be consistent with his words.
Move B.Carter to full time nickel / safety. Move T.Simpson back to SLB. Keep J.Trotter at MLB. Move K.McGuire to WLB.
Sayonara.
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Orange Immortal [62797]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 8:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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It is also an excitable game, and Goodwin don't have an excitable bone in his body, yeah!!!!
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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Yep. It's right up there with a OC who "didn't know how many touches his leading rusher had in the game" and "wasn't aware that we didn't run the Quarterback until late in the 3rd quarter.
I'm with you, LBB, it boggles the imagination...
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Tiger Titan [50716]
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Sadly, this is what happens when you hire people who have never been coordinators at this level.
Nov 9, 2022, 11:42 PM
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I didn’t understand at the time why Dabo didn’t go out and get two outstanding coordinators. It was a horrible decision.
Amazingly, the Dabo cult applauded it and had no problem with it.
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Clemson Conqueror [11508]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 6:52 PM
[ in reply to Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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I applaud T.Davis for stating the problem as he did.
Also, he said it well. Nothing like 'player X was lazy' or 'player z was not engaged.' TD also didn't exclude himself from the "mindset" problem.
Nothing wrong with what Goodwin said, but then again, nothing really insightful or useful. The usual assistant coach type of narrative after a bad loss.
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Orange Phenom [15034]
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Re: Pathetic..for D HC & D player
Nov 9, 2022, 8:05 PM
[ in reply to Pathetic..for D HC & D player ] |
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lightbulbbill®
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Pathetic..for D HC & D player [4]
Nov 9, 2022, 1:36 PM
Reply
to even admit that outloud!!
Geez~
pathetic that lightbulboutbill is allowed on the internet
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Dynasty Maker [3295]
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Re: And there it is
Nov 9, 2022, 3:46 PM
[ in reply to And there it is ] |
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same! thought everyone complaining about the tigers getting the #4 spot would get them angry. apparently they didn't check social media last week. if you can't get worked up playing notre dame AT notre dame in primetime, something just ain't right. maybe they should take up crocheting.
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CU Medallion [18885]
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Dabo did a Ford impression this week it seems. Beat the
Nov 9, 2022, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to And there it is ] |
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ranked teams and can't get them up for a 3-loss opponent.
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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Re: And there it is
Nov 9, 2022, 7:50 PM
[ in reply to And there it is ] |
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Too many left side running plays and tight end pass plays that we’re predictable. Especially in the second half. That’s on Goodwin. Fix this evaluation shortfall or look for another job.
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Associate AD [807]
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Re: And there it is
Nov 9, 2022, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to And there it is ] |
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Took ND lightly? Must have taken Syracuse lightly wake lightly the season lightly.
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Team Captain [472]
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Re: And there it is
Nov 9, 2022, 9:37 PM
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Don’t forget Furman.
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Playmaker [363]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 1:41 PM
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You don’t say
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Orange Beast [6201]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 4:30 PM
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Pretty sure thats a reflection of leadership from the defense coach...
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Legend [6940]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 1:42 PM
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Mindset is sort of a vague word for "We don't know". Need to figure it out and put a definite name to it or it will keep happening. Name it and claim it!
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Top TigerNet [29945]
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If that is the case...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:48 PM
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....Goodwin saying it was "the mindset" that was the problem, then Dabo needs to have a simple conversation with Wes.
(I won't go into details. I've done so in the past. But, Bobby Bowden had a similar situation with Mark Richt about a problem with the FSU offense.)
Conversation should be short and simple:
"Wes, have a seat. I've noticed that the defense doesn't have the right mindset. Now, is that my fault; is that their fault; or is that your fault."
The only correct response from Wes would be, "I understand. I'll fix it."
End of conversation.
Message was edited by: bretfsu®
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Orange Phenom [15034]
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Re: If that is the case...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:52 PM
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bretfsu®
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If that is the case...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:48 PM
Reply
....Goodwin saying it was "the mindset" that was the problem, then Dabo needs to have a simple conversation with Wes.
(I won't go into details. I've done so in the past. But, Bobby Bpowden had a similar situation with Mark Richt about a problem with the FSU offense.)
Conversation should be short and simple:
"Wes, have a seat. I've noticed that the defense doesn't have the right mindset. Now, is that my fault; is that their fault; or is that your fault."
The only correct response from Wes would be, "I understand. I'll fix it."
End of conversation.
HEY GREAT NOW WE GETTING ADVICE FROM FSU FANS ON HOW TO FIX CLEMSON. SMFH. BUT HEY, THANKS.
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Top TigerNet [29945]
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Sorry, just pointing out the obvious.
Nov 9, 2022, 2:08 PM
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When a coach essentially throws his players under the bus by publicly saying they didn't have the right mindset going into a game, then it is time for the head coach to "explain" to that coach that is it HIS job to never let that happen again.
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Orange Elite [5354]
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Re: Sorry, just pointing out the obvious.
Nov 9, 2022, 2:35 PM
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Thanks Brett. The intensity is missing on game day, probably at practice as well. Coaching is an issue, on both sides of the ball. Unsure how you get fire from a laid back coach. The easy out is to blame the players but bottom line, it’s the coaching.
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Commissioner [1218]
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Re: Sorry, just pointing out the obvious.
Nov 9, 2022, 3:34 PM
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You can't because Wes is not a coach... he is an analysts and needs to be in his previous position.
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Associate AD [807]
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Re: Sorry, just pointing out the obvious.
Nov 9, 2022, 4:10 PM
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All I want to know is can coach Wes tell us if they have the right mindset or whatever for this week. Do we need to hire a psychiatrist? Dr Phil?
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Top TigerNet [29945]
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My point in my original post...
Nov 9, 2022, 4:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sorry, just pointing out the obvious. ] |
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.... was to "explain" to an assistant coach he never blames players in public.
A more correct way to phrase it would have been, "I didn't do my job. I didn't prepare them mentally for this game. I've got to do a better job."
And, although the exact words may have been different, I suspect that Dabo had the conversation with Wes and let him know - very clearly - it is the job of the coaches to have the guys mentally ready to play.
In the post game presser Dabo took full responsibility. He called the game an ### whipping and said, "It starts with me. It's my fault."
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Orange Immortal [62797]
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Re: Sorry, just pointing out the obvious.
Nov 9, 2022, 8:15 PM
[ in reply to Sorry, just pointing out the obvious. ] |
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Under a bus is where both the OC-DC belong, but Dabo needs to tell both of the them that the next time his team isn't ready play for 60 minutes, that he don't want it to take more than 5 minutes to gather their personal thing and get the H&11 out of the FB operations building, and off campus, period!!!!
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Game Day Hero [4524]
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Re: If that is the case...
Nov 9, 2022, 6:13 PM
[ in reply to If that is the case... ] |
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Bret, that's interesting and I had never heard that. However that said. FSU and Bowden had some MONSTER teams with killer instinct during those years, so it was clearly effective. Please disregard posters who just love negativity, most of us enjoy your contributions.
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Top TigerNet [29945]
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Here is the FSU story.
Nov 9, 2022, 6:32 PM
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I've told it on here before. Mark Richt has told it several times, years after the fact.
Mark usually tells the story explaining to his audience that Bobby was not a yeller or screamer. But, he had a way of making sure you knew that he had high expectations of all his coaches and if you weren't doing your job he would make it very clear to you what those expectations were.
Situation: Charlie Ward had just become the starting QB. He had a rough first two games. FSU won both of them but he threw 9 interceptions in those two games.
Bobby called Mark into his office. The conversation went like this:
"Mark, Cholly keeps throwing the ball to the wrong team. Is that my fault, is that his fault, or is that your fault?"
"I understand coach. I'll fix it."
End of conversation.
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All-In [10834]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 1:56 PM
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Neither the past nor how good individual players think they are win games against teams with equal talent. Heart, will, pride and just manning up and winning matchups win games and hopefully our guys got that message in South Bend.
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Trainer [39]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 2:08 PM
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Mindset gif we lose anymore games or win by a touchdown then OC AND OD NEED TO GET OUT OF CLEMSON POINT BLANK.
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MVP [518]
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Defense seems to lack
Nov 9, 2022, 2:11 PM
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a leader (player or coach) who is willing to plant a foot up someone's backside and get 'em peed off/motivated toward killer instinct.
Except for Ship, applies to offense too.
Lack of passion on the field. Instead it's a "go through the (practice) motions" approach. And most evident on offense. DJ often looks mechanical.
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Legend [6780]
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Re: Defense seems to lack
Nov 9, 2022, 4:46 PM
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Normally on D that leadership would come from a LB but I think our LB corps has enough on their plate just getting their assignments straight. Probably feel like they can’t put a foot up a rearend until they play perfect themselves. Dominoes
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Associate AD [1052]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 2:38 PM
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Sounds like a nut cutting practice is lonnnng over due.
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Commissioner [1219]
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Re: There was only 1 real problem..................
Nov 9, 2022, 3:10 PM
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Coaching staff didn't come to TNet to find out how some of you wanted to approach the game.
But the worst part of it always is..... the root cause is selfishness. Watch Saban's entitled fan video.
Here endeth the lesson.
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Tiger Titan [50716]
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Well, they clearly need to go to someone for advice.
Nov 9, 2022, 11:48 PM
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No one seems to understand much right now.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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I don't know how smart he is.... but I can see he doesn't
Nov 9, 2022, 3:30 PM
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sound like a leader of men. He's not confident. He's not a forceful personality.
Brains alone can't lead a group of 30 young men to be more physical than another group.
You need a combination of intellect and gravitas.
I know it's unreasonable to judge a DC hire so soon after bringing him on.... but ever since the first interview he just appeared mousy.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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Associate AD [807]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 3:49 PM
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???????say what?????/Say that again please???? What the hale?///
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Asst Coach [839]
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 4:37 PM
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So far in over his head, it's really embarrassing. It takes a man to deal with men and this is an awe struck boy who is like the proverbial deer in the headlights. It's not always about "x's & o's". Sometimes- more often than not"- it's about motivating the Jimmies & Joes. I don't think our new guy gets that or just doesn't have the stomach for it. Some just don't and that is what separates the great ones from the also-rans. Intimidation and unrelenting aggression are the defining earmarks of game changing defense and we are not remotely close. I guess we will just have to muddle through. In the meantime, we all know our offense is not where it should be at this point in the season. We must find the answers quickly or it's going to be a long off-season.
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All-TigerNet [12666]
TigerPulse: 86%
47
Posts: 12291
Joined: 2011
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Let's see #4 at Notre Dame on a
Nov 9, 2022, 6:39 PM
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Nationally televised prime time game. Wrong mindset is ########. They hot pushed around like they have often tomes this year. Still, they gave up 14, while offense and special teams gave up 21. The offense hasn't had a clue since 2020.
I wouldn't tell anyone I didn't have the tight mindset, especially for that game. I'd rather just say I got my ### pushed backwards and sideways like I was on roller skates and I knew exactly what they were going to do.
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Recruit [68]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 7:06 PM
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Our coaches are truly clueless. I hope Dabo sees this.
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Associate AD [807]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 8:28 PM
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This is it in a nutshell, for whatever reason they can think up, bottom line players were not put in position to be successful. Own it. That is the least one can do. Own it.
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Associate AD [807]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 8:29 PM
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Own it.
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Associate AD [807]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 8:35 PM
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Coaches did not put players in position to be successful. Own it. The least you can do. Own it
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Team Captain [474]
TigerPulse: 83%
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 8:32 PM
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All I read was the headline so … but taking the headline at face value…that’s is just totally unacceptable and ridiculous when you are an undefeated team on the verge of making the playoffs and basically the ONLY way ND can win is if they run the ball down your throat…like that’s the only thing you have to pay attention to…so either our players are not as good as advertised or there simply is no passion/leadership from the veterans nor coaches on the team…that side is suppose to be special and carry this team…you don’t screw around with teams when you are that close to the playoffs…like how does “THAT” happen with a veteran defensive front group??? It’s one thing to lose to a team that is better than you physically or skill wise..:but at this time of the year or really any time with a 12 game season…it’s inexcusable to not be mentally prepared or have the right mindset..:especially when playing a blue blood on national tv at night at their place, which is hollowed grounds and you lost there two years ago!!! That’s crap!!!
If they are better then fine…but don’t say you didn’t have the right mindset…like what other mindset could you possibly have in that situation???
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Asst Coach [839]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 10, 2022, 9:15 AM
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Great post!
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Hall of Famer [8934]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 11814
Joined: 2011
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 9, 2022, 11:24 PM
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What outside forces are impacting our defensive team's mindset or physicality?
That comment makes NO sense to me.
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MVP [512]
TigerPulse: 29%
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Re: TNET: Goodwin, Davis say Tigers lacked the right mindset in losing physical contest
Nov 11, 2022, 7:37 AM
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How much time on the field did our Defense play vs Offense Possession? I believe 2nd half was much worse. Defense seemed to never get a break due to the QB decisions by Dabo.
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Replies: 58
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