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All-In [44055]
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Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
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Jan 2, 2023, 9:27 PM
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should cause us as a society to ask ourselves if continuing to play football is worth it.
I love watching football, but it’s a violent game no matter how “safe” we try to make it. The more we learn about its potential negative effects, the more concerned we should become.
How many lifelong injuries, brain damage, and possibly deaths have to happen before we truly start asking the hard questions?
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All-TigerNet [10859]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:30 PM
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Shocking we haven’t gone through this prior….in every sport.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Tend to agree
Jan 2, 2023, 9:30 PM
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and I dont care if youre baiting.
I gave up a knee to football and it wasnt worth it. However, Im thankful it wasnt worse than that.
Its barbaric.
But hey, bread, circuses and all that.
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All-In [44055]
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I’m not baiting at all. I’m 100% serious.***
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Jan 2, 2023, 9:32 PM
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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Re: I’m not baiting at all. I’m 100% serious.***
Jan 2, 2023, 9:38 PM
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You have no morality. Thats your problem among others.
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [38141]
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Re: I’m not baiting at all. I’m 100% serious.***
Jan 3, 2023, 9:47 AM
[ in reply to I’m not baiting at all. I’m 100% serious.*** ] |
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I've had 2 surgeries on my shoulder, and have sporadic back problems from playing tennis. Should we as a society eliminate all forms of exercise?
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All-In [44055]
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If many people exercising correctly and taking all of the appropriate precautions
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Jan 3, 2023, 10:07 PM
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started having significant chronic injuries and death as a direct result of exercise, then it would make sense to revisit the concept of exercise and ask if it’s worth it, yes?
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Orange Blooded [3520]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:32 PM
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Yeah…I love football, but I don’t think it will be around in 25-30 years…and I’m ok with that.
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All-TigerNet [13160]
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Forcing people to log and roof houses should stop as well.***
Jan 2, 2023, 9:33 PM
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All-In [44055]
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Is there an upper limit of severe injuries resulting from football
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Jan 2, 2023, 9:51 PM
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beyond which you aren’t comfortable with?
Or is your attitude that people choose to play it and injuries happen and it’s no big deal?
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: Is there an upper limit of severe injuries resulting from football
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Jan 2, 2023, 10:17 PM
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There is a lot of gray area between your 2 choices. Most things in life are rarely that simple.
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All-In [44055]
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That’s why I asked if he has a threshold for the amount of injuries he’s comfortable with.***
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Jan 2, 2023, 11:11 PM
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All-American [562]
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All-American [562]
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All-In [44055]
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You seem mad. You mad, bro?***
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Jan 2, 2023, 11:39 PM
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All-American [562]
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just fishing with the proper bait....
Jan 3, 2023, 12:25 AM
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and the tone of your reply confirms you are the former-much obliged
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Commissioner [983]
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Even though its their choice to play...
Jan 3, 2023, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to Is there an upper limit of severe injuries resulting from football ] |
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it doesnt lessen how big of a deal the injury is. But my personal attitude is thats its their right to choose to play or not. Nobody is being forced into it. Players know the risks, no matter how awful they may be.
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All-In [44055]
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Do they really know the risks?
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Jan 3, 2023, 10:10 PM
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Do parents about to sign their kids up for pee wee football understand the risks? Do high school, college, and pro football players understand the risks?
Sure, they understand that you’re going to hit other people and be hit, and might sustain an injury. But is the risk of permanent brain damage and other injuries being communicated to the masses? I don’t think it is.
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Letterman [298]
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Re: Forcing people to log and roof houses should stop as well.***
Jan 3, 2023, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to Forcing people to log and roof houses should stop as well.*** ] |
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Dumb response. I laid brick for 10 years and was in plenty of dangerous situations but it doesn't compare to getting hit viscously like in football.
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CU Medallion [52585]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:34 PM
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Agree, JK. I just posted something similar.
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Legend [16507]
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Hope he's OK. Reminds me a bit of the Hank Gathers collapse
Jan 2, 2023, 9:36 PM
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and death during a basketball game. Don't take your days for granted for sure. Never know when your time is up!
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All-In [44055]
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I’ll never forget the Hank Gathers story.
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Jan 2, 2023, 9:54 PM
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Sadly, it took several more deaths like that before people started to take enlarged hearts in athletes more seriously. Even today, it’s not something that is routinely screened for (even though I believe it should be).
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CU Guru [1589]
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Re: I’ll never forget the Hank Gathers story.
Jan 3, 2023, 12:09 AM
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Well then we should give up basketball if there is risk of death, Judge!
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Legend [17302]
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JK just ####. You’re clueless.***
Jan 2, 2023, 9:36 PM
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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Re: JK just ####. You’re clueless.***
Jan 2, 2023, 9:43 PM
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Like the rest of us, he has no direct knowledge of what actually happened. Did he have an undiagnosed issue, heart, seizure?
None of us know, but only one of us thought it would be a good idea to launch an indictment against football within 10-minutes after this player fell.
Same type of behavior as with the Ella Breese tribute mocking and the race baiting around Shipley.
This human scum does this incessantly, and TigerNet appreciates the clicks.
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: JK just ####. You’re clueless.***
Jan 2, 2023, 9:53 PM
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Not defending JK but he’s not the only one. Others in a different thread already saying they think the worst has happened when there have been no updates or any reason for someone to jump to the most negative conclusion. But seeing who they were, I’m not surprised. Seems those guys just want to be able to say I was the first to see it and I told you so.
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All-In [44055]
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Cardiac arrest + CPR + defibrillator = really bad situation
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Jan 2, 2023, 10:00 PM
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with low chance of survival.
It’s not like the movies where CPR almost always works.
The fact that he got prompt medical attention shifts the odds somewhat in his favor, but his chances of survival seem low.
Pray for him. This is bad.
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: Cardiac arrest + CPR + defibrillator = really bad situation
Jan 2, 2023, 10:19 PM
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Well being the pumper I am, I am going to remain optimistic until I can’t. Why jump to the negative conclusion??
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All-In [44055]
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How did I jump to a negative conclusion?
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Jan 2, 2023, 11:15 PM
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I didn’t say that he is definitely going to die from this.
But I did say that requiring those interventions does not put the odds in his favor. That’s not me being negative, that’s me using published data.
Of course I’m praying for him and hoping he makes it. Being young and in good shape, and also getting prompt medical attention, gives him a fighting chance.
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Head Coach [761]
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Re: Cardiac arrest + CPR + defibrillator = really bad situation
Jan 2, 2023, 10:51 PM
[ in reply to Cardiac arrest + CPR + defibrillator = really bad situation ] |
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Not sure if you're a soccer fan or not. If not, Google Christian Eriksen. I was watching live when he collapsed on the field and CPR was administered and the defibrillator was used.
He's the same guy who plays for Manchester United now with an implant.
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All-In [44055]
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Yes, Eriksen’s story is incredible. I’m praying for a similar miracle for Damar Hamlin.***
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Jan 2, 2023, 11:20 PM
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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All-In [44055]
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:37 PM
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It’s astonishing that your mind has moved right past this young man’s well being and right onto whether football should be part of our society.
You truly are a despicable human being.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:43 PM
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I’m not sure what’s worse, his comments or yours? Who calls down judgment like this and claims to be morally superior?
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:59 PM
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Yea, Clemson football is a business and Dabo didn’t grow up in a family one so he is quite unlikely to understand the pitfalls of working with family and getting too “close” to individuals where making hard decisions won’t ruin relationships. I didn’t call him despicable or any name! This comment by judge Keller shows less about his character than yours just showed. Now booger off
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Legend [16926]
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All-In [25014]
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while I agree football is dangerous
Jan 2, 2023, 9:37 PM
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this seems to be a heart issue, not necessarily brought on by the physicality of football.
There was a similar situation with Christian Eriksen of Denmark at the Euros in soccer last year. he was revived on the field.
Keyontae Johnson, Florida basketball player also collapsed mid game last year.
So in this case, it could be any physical activity (if it is indeed a heart issue).
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: while I agree football is dangerous
Jan 2, 2023, 9:39 PM
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He had just taken a direct hit to the chest. No way to know if there was any underlying health issues but he definitely took a shot to the chest.
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1st Rounder [616]
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It's possible it's a heart issue
Jan 2, 2023, 9:44 PM
[ in reply to while I agree football is dangerous ] |
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But I think it's also possible the hit caused it, isn't it? Too soon to say I think.
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Asst Coach [723]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:39 PM
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Absolutely awful. May have been commotion cordis? Sudden ventricular fibrillation triggered by blunt trauma to the chest/heart. More common in baseball but this sure looked like it. Praying for this young man.
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Asst Coach [723]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:40 PM
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Meant Commotio Cordis- I hate auto correct.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 9:49 PM
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It reminded me of the old Chuck Hughes, Detroit WR , videos when he passed on the field.
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Legend [19697]
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Then hockey has to go as well
Jan 2, 2023, 9:55 PM
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dozens of checks a night like that. Hard picks in basketball. Baseball players running into walls.
This is tragic, but sports carry inherent dangers. Look at how many soccer players dropped dead on the pitch in European Leagues last year
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All-In [44055]
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I’m not saying football needs to go
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Jan 2, 2023, 10:03 PM
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but I do think these situations cause (or should cause) us to re-examine our priorities.
If we decide that football is still important and worth the risk, fine. But its barbaric if we just shrug this off as collateral damage and forget about it after a few minutes.
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Legend [19697]
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Hockey is barbaric, boxing, MMA
Jan 2, 2023, 10:06 PM
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a 100mph fastball nailing someone in the head.
We don't think about the worst case scenarios often, but they are there in every major sport. They are always possible
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Hockey is barbaric, boxing, MMA
Jan 2, 2023, 10:09 PM
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Lots of boxers have died over the years
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All-In [44055]
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Yes, I realize that.
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Jan 2, 2023, 10:10 PM
[ in reply to Hockey is barbaric, boxing, MMA ] |
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But those sports didn’t just have a player require CPR and defibrillation after sustaining a hit tonight.
But you seem determined to hijack this thread, so by all means continue.
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Legend [19697]
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All have had players die
Jan 2, 2023, 10:18 PM
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All. So according to your logic everytime someone does, we should consider if it's worth playing? No one is hijacking your precious thread. Quit being an ###
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All-In [44055]
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You seem really determined to minimize this tragic event in tonight’s NFL game.
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Jan 2, 2023, 11:38 PM
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Reminding us that other sports are also dangerous makes it seem like you care more about defending football than you do taking a serious look at the inherent dangers of a sport that might’ve cost someone his life tonight.
Football is arguably the most popular sport in America. It’s much more popular than boxing, MMA, and even hockey. I’d bet that football is responsible for more injuries than those other sports combined, due to the popularity of football and the number of athletes who participate in it at all levels.
So while you can pull examples from other sports of participants having significant injury or even death, those sport-related effects don’t carry the degree of societal impact that football does.
As you know, there is a lot of research now into traumatic brain injury as it relates to football. There is increasingly more concern from scientists that TBI is much more common - and serious - than we previously thought. It’s not just about bum knees and bad ankles in retired football players anymore.
Asking ourselves if football is still worth it isn’t just about tonight, but tonight should serve as a reminder since it was a horrific injury in a long list of serious injuries which have resulted from football.
I’m just incredibly sad about this situation.
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Legend [19697]
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I don't minimize this at all
Jan 3, 2023, 6:23 AM
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the opinion that because of a tragedy, we should react with thoughts of limiting personal choice in regards to risk/reward with our one lives? Yes, that I minimize.
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Legend [16926]
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Re: Hockey is barbaric, boxing, MMA
Jan 2, 2023, 10:11 PM
[ in reply to Hockey is barbaric, boxing, MMA ] |
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Let’s take a wild f*cking guess what the only major sport that would survive the JK purge would be? He should stop using electric power since high power transmission maintenance kills more works a year than have died in the history of the NFL. Hope the hypocrite doesn’t drive a car, ride a bike, or basically ever leave his house either.
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CU Medallion [51103]
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Who would TD this response?
Jan 3, 2023, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Hockey is barbaric, boxing, MMA ] |
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Mods need to search out the scum. My TD in 3....2....1....
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: Then hockey has to go as well
Jan 2, 2023, 10:05 PM
[ in reply to Then hockey has to go as well ] |
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I agree. This is absolutely horrible but there will be some perspective applied to any decision made subsequently. Everyone is saying this is unprecedented so that also says how many games have been played without something like this happening. It is the most horrible thing we have ever seen on an NFL game. It has happened in high school games and maybe even college games but this one happened in front of a national TV audience.
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Legend [19697]
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Sports are dangerous
Jan 2, 2023, 10:12 PM
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people die, certainly hoping this young man isn't one of them, every year participating in them. No one knows this more than the players.
It was a normal football play. Truly praying for Mr. Hamlin
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Rock Defender [54]
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What JK is questioning is
Jan 2, 2023, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Then hockey has to go as well ] |
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whether the end (our entertainment) justifies the means (players suffering the longterm effects of repeated trauma.)
Nothing - save the neanderthalesque MMA and boxing - comes close to the violence of football.
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Legend [19697]
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Hockey has more hits like that in one game
Jan 2, 2023, 10:21 PM
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than a football team has in a season.
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Legend [16926]
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Re: What JK is questioning is
Jan 2, 2023, 10:23 PM
[ in reply to What JK is questioning is ] |
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We should ban, in order: horse back riding, scuba diving, gymnastics, boxing, soccer, and cycling. They kill more people than American football. That is if you’re being sincere and not just concern trolling (which JK most certainly is).
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Rock Defender [54]
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Who said ban?
Jan 2, 2023, 10:53 PM
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The question is whether our societal lust for the spectacle of football is worth the price the players pay longterm.
We make them rich now and they often suffer later. And I wonder how many would play for free.
Cycling (I was a competitve cyclist) is not willfully dangerous - we didnt go into a race looking to repeatedly collide with other cyclists.
I was in better shape when I left the sport than when I began.
Gymnasts (I was a gymnast as a child) dont go to the gym looking to repeatedly ram other gymnasts. I was stronger and more athletic when I left than when I began.
Horseback riding ... same. Scuba diving ... not exactly a violent pastime.
Same for soccer.
Of all our mass-consumption spectacles, only football has repeated and often traumatic collisions baked into the formula.
Boxing ... yep. Ban it tomorrow. Same for MMA. Utterly barbaric and shameful.
And Ive met zero football players -- including myself -- who walked away in better shape than when they entered.
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CU Medallion [57204]
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Re: Who said ban?
Jan 2, 2023, 11:05 PM
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If it saves just a single life, banning cycling is worth it. That is the modern standard, correct?
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Rock Defender [54]
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I dont think so.
Jan 2, 2023, 11:20 PM
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Sounds like the sort of hyperbole an intellectually dishonest gun-ban advocate might use but not one Ive heard applied to a particular sport.
I guess you're struggling with the idea that football demands extreme, repeated violence and has a by now well-documented history of leaving alot of former players physically and mentally damaged.
Whereas most former cyclists (the vast majority) who went about it honestly (didnt dope) arent hobbled or brain damaged.
(I mention cyclists because you did.)
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Legend [16926]
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Re: I dont think so.
Jan 3, 2023, 7:53 AM
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I mentioned cycling because many more people die from it than from football. You’re the one introducing intent into how we examine sport. If participation in the sport causes more deaths than football - regardless whether cyclists directly attack each other - then the sport should be subjected to even more scrutiny. I didn’t even mention Jal Alai which I’m pretty sure is still the deadliest sport on the planet. It’s not part of the intent to kill your opponent, even hit them. But it is a biproduct. And no one is playing that for the riches of NFL football. No one is base jumping for a multi million dollar contract. So yes, people would play football because they want to. They never have any trouble filling any semi-pro team with players who are paid less than living wage stipends and have virtually no chance of moving forward professionally.
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Legend [19697]
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Isn't that up to the players?
Jan 3, 2023, 5:55 AM
[ in reply to Who said ban? ] |
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In a free society, do we not all make decisions regarding our personal safety? Risk and reward?
If you play basketball at the YMCA in a rec league, and you're overweight and out of shape, you're taking a risk. Bur isn't it you're risk to take?
This isn't about minimizing what just happened. But we all make our own decisions. Dale Earnhart made his own decisions. Hank Gathers. Truly countless others. This isn't about football, or any sport, but our ability to choose, it it worth the risk for us?
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Legend [16926]
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Re: Isn't that up to the players?
Jan 3, 2023, 7:46 AM
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He’s seems to be shifting it to a matter on “intent” as though no one in any of those sports has ever intended to hurt another. It’s a pathetic argument.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Youre always rude.
Jan 3, 2023, 10:21 PM
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The rules of football require violent contact. Intent is irrelevant.
Now, you might be thinking malicious intent ... and there's certainly some of that. But Im of the opinion they dont set out to hurt each other. Most of them, anyway.
But you make an interesting point about Jai Alai (sp?) - and if it became the bazillion dollar business in the U.S. that football is, you bet I wouldnt watch or support it.
Barbaric, all. And exploitative.
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110%er [8009]
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Re: What JK is questioning is
Jan 2, 2023, 10:25 PM
[ in reply to What JK is questioning is ] |
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You think they play the game for our entertainment? Sure, it’s entertaining and we love football, but most players dream of playing in the NFL, being a star, and the $$$ that come with it.
This is a horrible tragedy and I pray the young man is going to be OK. However, before we knee jerk and cancel the sport because of an accident, shouldn’t we also acknowledge all the thousands and thousands of lives that have been enriched through the sport? How many have been provided opportunities for education, rising from poverty, and countless profitable careers from playing this sport?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Sure. Lots of good things
Jan 2, 2023, 11:37 PM
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have come from football.
And yet it remains barbaric.
Which circles back to the original idea:
Does the end (our entertainment) justify the means (the longterm effects on the players)?
You make a good case that it does.
I just dont know. Sometimes it feels like we're the Romans watching them bleed one another and calling it a net positive because a few get rich doing it.
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110%er [8009]
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Re: Sure. Lots of good things
Jan 3, 2023, 1:30 AM
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But the original idea is flawed. It’s not just for your entertainment. These are grown men playing a game they love and a profitable career they chose.
And are you really comparing football to Roman Gladiator games…battles which were often fought to the death by enslaved participants? Wow. Talk about hyperbole!
If you are uncomfortable watching football then don’t watch.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: Sure. Lots of good things
Jan 3, 2023, 10:02 PM
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The money and entertainment is deff a large part of it but I imagine most nfl players would play football if nobody watched and they were not getting paid anything.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Hmmm...I dunno.
Jan 3, 2023, 10:26 PM
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CTE for free seems a little far-fetched.
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Legend [19697]
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People didn't choose as to whether they'd
Jan 3, 2023, 6:26 AM
[ in reply to Sure. Lots of good things ] |
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be thrown to the lions, or participate in gladiator games. They were forced to.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: What JK is questioning is
Jan 3, 2023, 9:55 PM
[ in reply to What JK is questioning is ] |
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You do realize people play football because they love it. They didn't start playing football to please fans.
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All-American [594]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 10:10 PM
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I get your point Judge.. and it’s a good convo to be had. I’m thinking this is a bit premature though.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Disagree
Jan 2, 2023, 10:15 PM
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I hate horrific injuries and lifelong outcomes such as CTE. But most guys playing live for this, and it works out for them, and dramatically improves their lot in life. I mean, we could take away automobiles and avoid far more tragedy.
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Legend [15914]
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Hangin with 2 other experienced critical care trauma
Jan 2, 2023, 10:27 PM
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and cardiac RNs
Consensus here, doesn’t mean we are right, is that there was
A. a hit by Higgins causing disruption in his hearts intrinsic electrical activity, Vtach, with prolonged downtime prior to ROSC
B congenital aortic aneurysm or heart defect on which hit resulted in tear or rupture resulting in quick internal loss of blood, heart stop, anoxic injury
Doesn’t seem neurological in nature (spine or brain) to us
Whatever the case, terrible to see and prayers to the, the fam, and all involved
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: Hangin with 2 other experienced critical care trauma
Jan 2, 2023, 10:35 PM
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I don’t know any of the medical terms but I know that a lot of self defense trainers recommend a well placed punch to the heart area as an effective self defense maneuver. When I saw this happen live and then the replays that was the first thing that came to my mind. Sounds like the same thing you just gave the medical explanation for.
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Athletic Dir [867]
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Legend [15914]
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Hahaha… You’re so wrong. Try Jan 06, when I began
Jan 2, 2023, 11:47 PM
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a career as an ICU RN taking care of sick folks in Chas SC.
Laughable how I would protect myself in my occupation isn’t it?
The only thing significant after March 2020 (and really not til like Oct 2020) is that I had to change masks more frequently after doing hours of futile CPR on people whose issue was respiratory, not cardiovascular, meaning the CPR would never work.. and it didn’t
So then I’d wear a mask as I bagged everyone of those bodies and rolled them to the morgue. Worst was July - Sept 2021 with young people dying from Delta, easily 2-3 per shift in a 30
bed ICU. Thankfully, hasn’t been much of an issue sense.
That was a dark time.
Good luck to you and your family, may you be shown the same grace you offer
Cheers
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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Re: Hahaha… You’re so wrong. Try Jan 06, when I began
Jan 2, 2023, 11:51 PM
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I was waiting to see how hard you hit this softball. Bout 435ft.
Glad you’re doing well Soywalker. Thanks for your POV.
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All-In [44055]
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Athletic Dir [867]
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JK you’re such a joke
Jan 2, 2023, 10:38 PM
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We shouldn’t be surprised you would use this for your vendetta against football.
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 2, 2023, 11:08 PM
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So, we should give up football and pay Brad millions for a chance on that NIT bubble. Give me a break.
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All-In [44055]
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No, I’m not saying we should give up football.
1
Jan 2, 2023, 11:46 PM
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I’m saying we should take a moment when horrific things like this happen to ask ourselves if the benefits outweigh the risks.
I believe that is what thoughtful, compassionate societies should do.
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: No, I’m not saying we should give up football.
Jan 3, 2023, 12:14 AM
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If we truly weigh all the benefits gained by the millions that have played football vs. the highly publicized negatives… we both know that doesn’t happen these days. Today’s world is oblivious to composite risk analysis.
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All-American [562]
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Nobody is forced to play...ya gd pu$$y****
Jan 2, 2023, 11:10 PM
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 12:03 AM
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Dumb! More people get seriously hurt on a percentage basis in sports like Motocross, skateboarding, snowboarding, mountain climbing, etc. These sports just are not as publicly viewed.
People make choices to make a living and some are very dangerous and they tend to be compensated for their exposure to danger. You have people like long-term deep divers that weld on oil rigs but you wouldn't stop using gas. You have crab fishermen in the bering sea but you wouldn't stop eating crab. Coal miner's die every year to heat and cool your home but you won't turn off electricity.
A couple serious injuries a year won't stop people from playing nor stop people that like to watch. There isn't a job without some risk and usually compensated accordingly. I would say that football is probably not one of the top 10 fatal jobs in the world and they make more than most of those top 10 dangerous jobs.
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Rock Defender [54]
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It's just that
Jan 3, 2023, 12:27 AM
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most of the dangerous occupations you mentioned either feed (crabbing), energize (rig servicing) or fuel (coal mining) our world.
Football? Not so much. Its entirely entertainment. Nothing more. A huge business, sure. But only entertainment. Empty calories.
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Legend [16926]
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Re: It's just that
Jan 3, 2023, 8:31 AM
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You can homestead and avoid these things and assume these risks on yourself, since this is such a well thought out argument and you care so much about your fellow man. What percent of electricity and fuel use is essential? Very little. How selfish of you. We overshot food production in this country by an exponential amount. We kill people on both ends of that equation.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: It's just that
Jan 3, 2023, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to It's just that ] |
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I worked out of Dutch Harbor for 4 years. I knew the risks, even if I was young and had somewhat of the bulletproof mentality. I was glad to have the job because I was compensated extremely well. Nearly everything for people all over the world is a luxury. In the United States that is 100 times more likely.
There will always be people doing dangerous jobs because there will always be a demand for products that come with consequences. Educate the ones providing the product the best that you can about their risks, and educate the consumer the best that you can about the costs that go beyond financial for what they are receiving. There isn't a lot more that you can do.
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Orange Blooded [2349]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 12:07 AM
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Should give up basketball while we are at. The kid from Florida almost died on the court two years ago.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 12:10 AM
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The hard questions have been and addressed. There is nothing else to talk about.
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CU Guru [1589]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 12:11 AM
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Judge, 42,915 deaths by auto accidents in the US in 2019. Should we give up driving?
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Asst Coach [734]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 12:43 AM
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Honestly the chances of a player being seriously injured and especially killed, are significantly higher driving to and from the game than playing in it. Yes it is worth the risk. They are compensated extremely well for the risk they take and they acknowledge that risk/reward.
Auto racing, basketball, boxing, all sports are inherently dangerous but not as dangerous as being a police officer and they’re not making millions for their risk. Typical knee jerk reaction over a horrific occurrence.
Instead of condemning the sport, you do your best to learn from situations like this and try to develop protective equipment, screening for existing medical conditions, whatever is necessary to limit or prevent this happening again.
Thoughts and prayers for Damar for a full recovery and to Tee for the emotional trauma he has to be experiencing as well.
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Associate AD [845]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 4:53 AM
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You honestly need to go away from this topic-
This could happen anywhere—-home or walking on the street
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All-In [27851]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 6:17 AM
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It happens in every sport. It was not a football-related injury. It was probably a heart condition. Remember Hank Gathers? Reminds me a lot of that tragic event.
Sad for sure.
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All-In [44055]
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Yes, and Hank Gathers had an inherited heart defect called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
1
Jan 3, 2023, 10:18 PM
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Hamlin’s injury almost certainly occurred as a direct result of a collision in a football game.
One occurred while playing a sport, and the other occurred because of the sport. Big difference.
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Team Captain [476]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 7:52 AM
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Why do you keep watching?
If everyone stopped watching, the sport would eventually be no more.
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Scout Team [188]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 8:08 AM
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Your skirt could catch on fire while you're baking cookies but are you going to stop?
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All-In [36410]
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By That Logic Literally 100s of Human Activities Should
Jan 3, 2023, 8:51 AM
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Cease immediately. All cars, planes, alcohol, drugs etc. should be removed from society. Stop the drama. Just because you have nothing else to gripe about. Using a tragedy to push an agenda is pretty lame.
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All-In [44055]
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What agenda is that?
1
Jan 3, 2023, 10:21 PM
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Forgive me for being concerned about yet another person who sustained a severe injury due to football.
Are these players just mere pawns to you, only here to entertain you while they play? I hope not.
You know that these are real people, right?
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 9:02 AM
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I don’t have children yet.
But when I do, they won’t play football.
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Orange Blooded [4792]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 9:06 AM
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As long as MMA, boxing, automobile racing, base jumping, etc etc are legal I have no idea why football would be singled out for elimination.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Does anyone remember a post like this from JK when a player
Jan 3, 2023, 9:19 AM
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has collapsed in ANY other sport?
Legit question.
I do not want to minimalize the terrible situation with Hamlin last night and thoughts and prayers are with him and his family. Hoping he is able to make a full recovery.
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Legend [16926]
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 9:19 AM
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How many deaths have there been in motor racing? They haven't banned it yet. I don't know but I would bet at lower levels there are more deaths in baseball. I stopped pitching at the junior high level after a line drive tagged me in the shoulder before I could react. I couldn't stop thinking that a little up and over and I might not be writing this. Not only do they still use aluminum bats through the college level, but they are much improved from my day.
I'm not trying to downplay what happened but these are kneejerk reactions. The dangers need to be mitigated the best they can. Players need to be educated about the risks that they are taking, and play on.
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All-In [44055]
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I didn’t suggest that we should ban football.
1
Jan 3, 2023, 10:24 PM
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But perhaps there are ways to make it safer.
Maybe we aren’t doing a good job educating players and parents about the dangers of playing.
These situations should cause us to ask these questions. If we decide that nothing needs to change, fine. But at least we showed a willingness to have the conversation like decent human beings.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 9:42 AM
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Hank Gathers would suggest your beloved sport should be cancelled too. What a dumb post.
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All-In [44055]
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Did Hank Gathers die because of a basketball collision?
1
Jan 3, 2023, 10:27 PM
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No, his death wasn’t from basketball. It was from an inherited cardiac condition that he didn’t know about.
Hamlin is in this situation directly as a result of a football collision.
The fact that you are trying to equate the two situations shows a real lack of awareness.
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Commissioner [983]
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Its okay to ask that as an individual...
Jan 3, 2023, 9:48 AM
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The way Andrew Luck retired early. But if youre suggesting we cut it as a sport, then I disagree. If there are those who want to play and risk injury for the potential of a big payday, then thats their decision.
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 11:43 AM
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We "as a society" should never be allowed to make that decision for the elite few who have the opportunity to play sports professionally. These days, every time one of these high profile injuries happens, thousands of people who don't have the opportunity to make millions of dollars playing a sport debate over whether "we" should get to take that opportunity away from people that do have it for their own safety. And half of those takes honestly just feel like people trying to show that they care about player health more than the last person to say they care about player health.
I obviously can't speak for Hamlin, but I'd wager that the majority of the people who are playing professional sports understand it's a gamble and are willing to take that gamble because of the potential returns. I work 10 hour days in manufacturing for 6 figures per year. I've got questionable knees and probably would end up tearing something in a contact sport. But if you offered me the opportunity to make league minimum for a year with maybe a 0.01% chance of a life-threatening or long-term life-altering injury, I'd take it.
If football ultimately becomes extinct, it should be because the people who actually have the ability to play the sport at a professional level decide to stop playing, not because a bunch of hand-wringers on message boards and broadcast desks are trying to clamber over each other to prove who cares the most. If the people who could make those millions decide to forgo the opportunity because it's not worth the risk, then football will die naturally. If outside influence forces football to shut down, what plans do they have to support the thousands of individuals whose careers revolve around the NFL?
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All-TigerNet [13566]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 12:06 PM
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Just the fact that anyone thought so highly of themselves that they couldn't wait to start a discussion like this before the player was barely even in the ambulance wins low life of the day...
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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Don't follow this logic at all
Jan 3, 2023, 4:33 PM
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as most of your posts.
Rare incident, anomaly.
Happens in most sports, esp. basketball (maybe more incidents percentage wise). Since you're a basketball guy, you of all people should know this.
So your solution is to (possibly) banish the sport. ????????
Also, get rid of driving in cars - far worse risk.
Just not sure where you come up with this stuff.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 9:49 PM
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You don't have to play football. Anybody who plays knows it's a risk. People die on the job everyday my friend.
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All-Pro [693]
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It’s going to continue to change
Jan 3, 2023, 9:58 PM
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To the point where there is no major physical contact. There will still be the knee injuries and such but I’ve know people that have torn an ACL stepping off a curb so those injuries are pretty much unavoidable. But as far as physical contact one day it will be eliminated or extremely reduced. It may be 20 more years but football as we know today will not be around forever.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 10:04 PM
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Judge drops a match and watches it spread as usual. He will probably go down as one of the most prolific scoks of all time.
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Legend [16330]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 25411
Joined: 10/10/06
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to counter your point
Jan 3, 2023, 10:08 PM
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people fall over dead every year from running up and down basketball courts as well..back in the 90s hank gathers died during a game...also people have died from this same injury via baseball, soccer and lacross as well..so should those sports all be canned?
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CU Guru [1047]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1212
Joined: 11/19/05
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 10:24 PM
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Maybe we should stop having an army.
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CU Guru [1514]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 2317
Joined: 1/14/05
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Re: Horrific situations like we are seeing tonight with Hamlin for the Bills
Jan 3, 2023, 10:35 PM
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I think your question is a good one.
I've read a lot of responses and few seem to be the product of much thought.
I signed my son up for football. After a couple of weeks of griping for the running and and exercises he got to a game. I was standing by the fence when he came off the field following his first go in a game and his response to me was, "daddy, I like this a lot better than soccer." A few years later, then in middle school, he took a bad shot to the head, got a concussion and I decided that was the end of football for him. he loved it but chances if him making a living off of football were slim at best so, better to protect his brain.
Around the same time I was at a high school game when a kid collapsed and died. I font think it had anything to do with a hit...likely some congenital disorder but it was something that stuck with me.
A number of years earlier a referee died on the field of a HS game -- they carted him off the field and finished the game!
This is all stuff we wish wouldn't happen, but my son could've gotten a concussion horsing around with his friends. The HS player is an unqualified tragedy. but just like the ref, sometimes your number is just up. That bit about continuing to play was wrong on many different levels and reflects what I'm understanding JK to be asking us to stop and think about.
Going further, we know too many HS, college and pro athletes are juicing in order to become and remain competitive. We know that stuff really isn't good, but our demands help fuel this. .. one side effect of such drugs us an enlarged heart. It also sees hits coming harder and faster. So, how much of the arthritis, brain injury and death that occurs is fueled by our demand for entertainment? It's a good question and deserves thought.
Brain injuries can be lessened with advances in equipment, but until we get serious about policing the PEDs, we are almost certain to see more tragedy. So, how do we demand stronger policing for PEDs?
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