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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Did Brownell
Sep 14, 2022, 9:50 AM
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come from a P5 school? Asking for a friend
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All-In [27193]
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Re: Did Brownell
Sep 14, 2022, 9:51 AM
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: Did Brownell
Sep 14, 2022, 9:56 AM
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Nope... UNC Wilmington, and then Wright State...
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All-In [27374]
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Re: Did Brownell
Sep 14, 2022, 9:57 AM
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Where did you get your training nctig!
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Well. I have significant concerns about
Sep 14, 2022, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: Did Brownell ] |
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our basketball program then.
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110%er [6026]
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Re: Did Brownell
Sep 14, 2022, 10:47 AM
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Came from the type school we typically hire HCs from.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Did Brownell
Sep 14, 2022, 10:55 AM
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Purnell, nope. Shyatt, naw. Barnes.... Big East but nope. Ellis - no sir. Foster -nill. Locke, Roberts, Press. Nope.
We have never had a coach come from another P5 school.
Actually, if you look at most of the "legacy" coaches, very few had a P5 school on their resume before making it "big". Huggins might be the only one with one season at KState before going to WVU. Bennett is the other.
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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People
Sep 14, 2022, 10:58 AM
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This is a rhetorical question mainly directed at Judge Keller. Thanks
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110%er [6825]
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Re: People
Sep 11, 2018, 8:35 AM
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As a sentient Judge Keller burner account, I am neither people nor grasp the concept of rhetorical.
https://www.clemson.edu/caah/interdisciplinary/rcid/index.html
Although I did take my methods coursework is the RCID program (Rhetoric, Communication and Information Design) program in the Strode. And statistics in Newman
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Re: People
Sep 14, 2022, 12:45 PM
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May god have mercy on your sentient soul.
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Legend [19697]
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Big East was a top 3 league when Barnes was in it***
Sep 14, 2022, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Did Brownell ] |
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Big East was a top 3 league when Barnes was in it***
Sep 14, 2022, 5:50 PM
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What happened Striper; not bitin' today?
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Legend [19697]
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Georgetown under Thompson, UConn-Calhoun
Sep 15, 2022, 7:35 AM
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St. Johns-Carneseca, Syracuse-Boeheim, Villanova-Massimino, Seton Hall-Carliesemo, Pitt-Evans, they were loaded.
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All-In [44055]
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The Big East of the 80s and early 90s was the best basketball conference.
Sep 15, 2022, 8:28 AM
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We probably won’t ever see a hoops conference like that ever again.
If you haven’t seen it, you should watch ESPN’s 30 for 30, “Requiem for the Big East.”
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CU Guru [1092]
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Big East was a top 3 league when Barnes was in it***
Sep 15, 2022, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to Big East was a top 3 league when Barnes was in it*** ] |
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ehhhhhh... yes/no - tied for 3rd and the SEC.
The Big East was a great basketball power but not a P5 conference (as in that sense). They just start in 1979/1980 from north east independents mostly - but were strong schools before hand. Providence wasn't bad not not a power either. But they were a focused conference, not a "power" that competes in everything.
The early Big East was much more variable in the contenders that made it fun. Georgetown, Nova, Providence, SH, UCONN, Cuse could all make the final four... It was almost as fun as Greensboro
But was it a power 5 program. Nope. WHy because power 5 complete in everything or in the SEC, some stuff. The metro likely had a better claim there.
So since 1979 and the BE's first year through 1990, the B10 won 4 titles (3 teams), ACC won 2, Metro won 2, B8 won 1, and the BE won 2. 90s saw the ACC win 3, SEC win 3, Big West 1, PAC 2, and the BE 1.
So over that span, the most titles were
ACC 5 B10 5 SEC 3 BE 3 PAC 2 Metro 2 BW 1
And if you dig into the final four, the B8, B10 SWC and the BE do look better but it gets fuzzy then counting all the final fours
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Legend [19697]
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The phrase "Power 5" didn't even exist
Sep 15, 2022, 9:50 AM
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until the football playoffs. In basketball they were better than most everyone. In basketball they were power 1-2-3. Thus, Barnes came from a conference that competed at the highest level, a power conference. He's the only coach we've ever hired who did so
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110%er [6825]
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Re: The phrase "Power 5" didn't even exist
Sep 15, 2022, 10:40 AM
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Well, Power5 was not there until the BCS anyway. Still, the BigEast was NOT a P5 conference which was to jstony's ununique question.
"Highest level" yeah... again, you could claim the same thing about the BigWest (UNLV), or the Metro with UofL, it was a lot more open in some spaces, no so in others.
The door was open post UCLA/expansion and the BE was just a clustering of basektball independent schools beforehand. Which the new NCAA field, made more sense and really allowed those "often good" schools to break through. Aka the Dukes, NC States, and a lot of BE schools. Nova's 84 team would not have won it in the 70s, let alone made the tourney.
That said, the Shyatt could also be considered coming from a "power" basketball school. Wyoming claims a national title and was a member of the WAC - that once included Arizona (until 77) as well as Texas Southern aka UTEP. Even OP could be considered as Dayton made it to the Tourney finals in 67 and regular appearances before that and remained an decent independent school.
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Legend [19697]
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To compare the WAC to the Big East of Barnes time
Sep 15, 2022, 12:10 PM
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is just stupid. How many Hall of Fame coaches were in the WAC? Big East? Thompson, Boeheim, Carnesecca, Calhoun, Massimino, and at some point, Barnes himself
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110%er [6825]
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Re: To compare the WAC to the Big East of Barnes time
Sep 15, 2022, 12:44 PM
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At the time no. The BE was the new experiment. And ironically, you left out Pitino. And at that time, Boeheim Calhoun, Pitinio were all young unknowns. Massimini was the only known quality. Thompson was just peaking.
The Big East was less than 10 years old when barnes kick up. They did not know if it was going to be a northern "metro" OR what... the WAC had at least been around for 30 years. Granted, they were gutted in 77s kinda like how the b12 is today/will be. As for HOF coaches, Don Haskins, Rick Majerus, Bliss is out due to NCAA issues. Tarkanian and Gillespie were later.
The funny thing, the WAC had just produced the 1984 football champ (BYU)
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Legend [19697]
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UNLV was not in the WAC at the time Barnes was in the Big East
Sep 15, 2022, 1:34 PM
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You had Majerus and Haskins. Bliss being mentioned as HOF material is laughable. So what if the Big East was new? It was formed in the mid-late 70's, not early 80's. Pitino was in the NBA as Barnes was at Providence. St. John's, Georgetown, Syracuse, UConn, Pittsburgh, Villanova were national powers, well established. You're grasping at the wind
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110%er [6825]
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Re: UNLV was not in the WAC at the time Barnes was in the Big East
Sep 15, 2022, 1:58 PM
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Pitino was the one who took the Friars to the final four, not barnes. Barnes followed Pitino one year removed.
Bliss - if not for the payments was HOF level (and could coach). He just did not have a shoe gig like Pitino.
Georgetown was the only "power" when the BE formed. Nova was an also ran until 1984 kinda like how we were a good football team before 1981.
St. Johns had only one great year before 85. Georgetown only made it to the tourney 1 time before 1975. They were nothing before JTJr. Syracuse was a second rate decent school before their runs in the 80s. UCONN had two one or two decent runs to the sweet sixteen and a few vacated things but was basically just a yankee conference perennial. Pitt was a half decent squad of first-round tier but rarely made a push.
They were all "new kids" save Villanova and even then, Nova is still kinda a newbie in the power tier.
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Legend [19697]
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We're talking about when Barnes was in it
Sep 15, 2022, 3:25 PM
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which was early 90's, by which you just stated all of the teams I've mentioned were powers. I never claimed Providence was one of those under Barnes. But they were very competitive, which was one reason we hired him. He knew how to win at an outmanned school. You just look foolish comparing the WAC to the Big East in the years Barnes coached.
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All-In [44055]
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No, and that’s part of the problem with our basketball program historically.
Sep 14, 2022, 12:21 PM
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The next time we hire a coach, I’d love for us to pay the money to get someone who is more than just a mid-major guy.
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CU Guru [1620]
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Re: No, and that’s part of the problem with our basketball program historically.
Sep 14, 2022, 12:51 PM
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Who is this “we” and “us” you speak of? I’m thinking when Brownell is fired you will be on the midnight train to a Peach Belt conf level school right along with him . Or will you stay on Tigernet ?
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All-In [44055]
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I’m a Clemson fan first.
Sep 15, 2022, 8:29 AM
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I’ll absolutely be here.
You do realize that I was on TigerNet well before Brownell became our coach, right?
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Legend [19697]
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All-In [44055]
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And you know very well that we hired Barnes nearly 30 years ago.
Sep 15, 2022, 7:52 AM
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His hiring is the lone exception of Clemson basketball going out and getting a coach who has won on this level.
Not surprisingly, he’s also the best basketball coach we’ve ever had.
If Clemson is serious about basketball, the next hire won’t be a mid-major guy or an assistant coach. It will be a head coach who is a proven winner at this level.
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CU Guru [1620]
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Re: And you know very well that we hired Barnes nearly 30 years ago.
Sep 15, 2022, 8:02 AM
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So you admit Brownell was a cheap shyatt hire ?
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All-In [44055]
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Brownell was absolutely a cheap hire.
Sep 15, 2022, 8:26 AM
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He wasn’t TDP’s first choice either.
I think Brad’s a great coach, but it took him a few years to settle into the job. I don’t want that transition with our next hire, which is why we need to be willing to pay for a coach who has done it before.
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All-In [38125]
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Re: Brownell was absolutely a cheap hire.
Sep 15, 2022, 12:27 PM
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Not trying to be funny, but I think Brownell is still transitioning.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: And you know very well that we hired Barnes nearly 30 years ago.
Sep 15, 2022, 8:22 AM
[ in reply to And you know very well that we hired Barnes nearly 30 years ago. ] |
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His hiring is the lone exception of Clemson basketball going out and getting a coach who has won on this level.
Not surprisingly, he’s also the best basketball coach we’ve ever had.
If Clemson is serious about basketball, the next hire won’t be a mid-major guy or an assistant coach. It will be a head coach who is a proven winner at this level.
I agree and got to look how Earl Grant is quickly building Boston College.
Brad Brownell has had some very good assistants who have worked under him at Clemson.
We know about Coach Dean being hired at Geargia as the Associate HS and top assistant at Georgia. Just like he did at Clemson doing a great job there early in recruiting.
Do you also remember Richey Riley now the HC at South Alabama was an assistant under Brad as well?
And how about Earl Grant who was his top assistant here at Clemson who was also the top assistant under Gregg Marshall at Wichita State. He grew up a huge Clemson fan from Georgia and after becoming as assistant coach continued to follow Clemson tremendously. He was the one who discovered KJ McDaniels for Coach Brownell.
Coach Grant did a great job at College of Charleston, and doing a very early good job at power5 and fellow ACC school Boston College that was a lot worse shape then Clemson when he took over there before last season. Coach Grant has 4 starters back from a team that went on a roll in the ACCT last season and has a top 20 recruiting class coming to BC this season. What do you think of Coach Grant and what he has done?
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Legend [19697]
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All-In [44055]
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It feels like you’re just being obtuse.
Sep 15, 2022, 12:34 PM
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The point is that Clemson typically goes for the cheap basketball hire.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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It wasn't power 5 or Big East Job but Dayton...
Sep 15, 2022, 8:18 AM
[ in reply to You know very well the Big East was loaded ] |
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From the Atlantic 10 job where Oliver Purnell was hired from s one of the top mid major programs in the country. They have one of the best basketball supported schools in the country at any level. Xavier is another one before they joined the Big East. Dayton has won national championships in its history. Just like Barnes, that was a big deal in college basketball when Purnell went to Clemson...
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All-In [44055]
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Purnell was a solid hire at the time
Sep 15, 2022, 8:33 AM
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given the fact that he had a reputation as a program builder. We were awful then and weren’t serious about basketball.
But if we are serious about basketball next time we are looking for a coach, we need to get someone with better credentials.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: Purnell was a solid hire at the time
Sep 15, 2022, 8:37 AM
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given the fact that he had a reputation as a program builder. We were awful then and weren’t serious about basketball.
But if we are serious about basketball next time we are looking for a coach, we need to get someone with better credentials.
Earl Grant could possibly be that at Boston College. Most people will tell you his dream job would be Clemson. Brad could pass the job to his former protege and assistant to build Clemson basketball even bigger...
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All-In [32656]
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Even bigger ? ? ? Not sure if serious . . . .
Sep 15, 2022, 9:44 AM
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All for doing whatever it takes to turn into a perennial dancer . . .
My first wish would be for BrownL to win every single game this coming year - run the whole table.
After that - get the guy that can make us relevant every year.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: Even bigger ? ? ? Not sure if serious . . . .
Sep 15, 2022, 10:35 AM
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All for doing whatever it takes to turn into a perennial dancer . . .
My first wish would be for BrownL to win every single game this coming year - run the whole table.
After that - get the guy that can make us relevant every year.
Grant could do it. He is tireless recruiter and because he is from,and so familiar with the area, he would lock down the top prospects in the upstate and most of the rest of the state. He is bringing a top 20 class to BC this upcoming season, could have one of the biggest turnarounds in first to second season ever at BC. He also loves Clemson as this is dream job.
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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That's better logic
Sep 15, 2022, 1:23 PM
[ in reply to No, and that’s part of the problem with our basketball program historically. ] |
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Than you wanting to pay this coaching staff big bucks for mediocrity.
My poast was to point out your hypocritical view of football assistants without P5 experience being a concern, but being OK with a basketball coach without the same experience.
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