Replies: 33
| visibility 151
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Another contradiction within Christianity
Sep 1, 2022, 2:05 PM
|
|
Who you hang around…
The Bible in one spot will tell you to keep good company and that you are who you hang around. This was a common theme growing up in youth group.
Yet Jesus was said to be a friend of sinners…
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Two responses, not necessarily answers.
Sep 1, 2022, 2:15 PM
|
|
To open up discussion some.
1. What's your scripture reference for the first sentence?
2. Are we supposed to do, or attempt to do, everything Jesus did?
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [47799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 44519
Joined: 9/5/02
|
"be ye therefore perfect as your Father which is in heaven
Sep 1, 2022, 2:21 PM
|
|
is perfect" --Matt 5:48
this goes hand in hand with
"let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God..." --Heb 6:1
We may not be there yet; but by God's grace, as United Methodists say, "we're going on to perfection!"
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Is that an answer to my question 1 or 2, or both?***
Sep 1, 2022, 2:22 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [47799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 44519
Joined: 9/5/02
|
2***
Sep 1, 2022, 2:23 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Hmmm...if Jesus never said
Sep 1, 2022, 2:26 PM
|
|
"Do everything I do," could you not do something He did, and still be "holy," or "perfect"?
I hope I correctly navigated that rather complicated syntax to properly ask my question.
How about this: if your Mom does the dishes, but never asks you to do the dishes, are you misbehaving by not doing the dishes?
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24477]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
There is that. And there is the obvious sophistry in the
Sep 1, 2022, 4:21 PM
[ in reply to Two responses, not necessarily answers. ] |
|
original post.
Say I'm having coffee with 5 people who are in a program to reintegrate prisoners upon the end of their sentences. I have seen these guys in both small group and one-on-one settings for a few months. Two are becoming personal friends. In this coffee conversation I say, "I have heard an adage that I have observed to be true: "Show me who a guy hangs out with, and I'll tell you where he'll be in 5 years."
The premise of the original post is that I am a hypocrite for being a Christian while saying it. One has to be purposely dense to think that. Or a troll. Pick.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: There is that. And there is the obvious sophistry in the
Sep 1, 2022, 9:11 PM
|
|
No I’m saying there is a contradiction in what the Bible teaches.
Eye for eye or turn the other cheek is another….
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17918]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8942
Joined: 12/24/96
|
You don't understand the difference between
Sep 2, 2022, 10:50 AM
|
|
Civil Law, Temple Law, and Moral Law. Those are the three categories by which the "Law" are designed to govern.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: Two responses, not necessarily answers.
Sep 2, 2022, 7:33 AM
[ in reply to Two responses, not necessarily answers. ] |
|
1. Paul says not to be yoked with unbelievers, and says not to even sit and eat with people who sin.
2. Do believers today do anything that Jesus did?
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93681]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95429
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Shall I explain the function of a yoke?
Sep 2, 2022, 8:16 AM
|
|
Do a wiki on yoke and try a little reasoning.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Re: Two responses, not necessarily answers.
Sep 2, 2022, 9:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Two responses, not necessarily answers. ] |
|
On #1, you're conflating two different topics.
In 2 Corinthians 6, Paul writes not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. That's about joining with them in some union, not about being in their presences. Marriage is a good example. A believer shouldn't marry an unbeliever.
In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul is writing about professing believers involved in sin. This is not about how to treat sinners in the world, but about church order and discipline.
I'm dismissing #2 as argumentative ad hominem.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: Two responses, not necessarily answers.
Sep 2, 2022, 10:19 AM
|
|
Fair enough. Although I will say Jesus was probably hanging out with people who were professing Jews.
#2 is a legitimate question as modern day Christians tend to lean more on the teachings of Paul than Christ, and I think this a good example of that…
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Again, 1 Corinthians 5 is about issues within a church.
Sep 2, 2022, 10:35 AM
|
|
There was no church when Jesus was walking the earth. The passages are completely unrelated.
If one believes in the Bible as the Word of God, then the words of Paul are the words of Jesus, just physically written by Paul.
Can you point to a verse where Jesus told his followers to hang out with "sinners"? How about one where He tells his followers to flip tables as He did.
Point is, I'm not sure that just because Jesus did something, He wants us to do it. I would go more by what He specifically told us to do.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: Again, 1 Corinthians 5 is about issues within a church.
Sep 2, 2022, 11:57 AM
|
|
How can you be a Christ follower if you don’t do and say as he did?
Obviously you don’t just go around flipping tables and looking for the worst sort to hang around, but Jesus didn’t seem to hold one person in higher regard than another based on their sins or beliefs, the Pharisees did that and it seems like Paul called on Christian’s to do the same. That’s why I’ve said before, and a lot has been written about, Paul taking Jesus’ message and adding a pharisaical spin.
Also, it’s interesting that Jesus never mentioned Paul…
Makes some question whether he actually existed at all, or if his story of being a Jew and enemy of early Christians to be fabricated to make his conversion more believable and give his words more authority.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
We don't know whether Jesus and Paul ever met in the flesh
Sep 2, 2022, 1:14 PM
|
|
prior to Jesus's death. But Jesus obviously knew Paul well, as He had been dealing with Paul's heart, who knows for how long. We read about Paul's literal encounter with Jesus in Acts 9.
I understand what you're saying about what it means to be a "Christ follower". I realize what I'm saying may be a little unconventional, even among Christians. I don't think it's something many Christian's think about to that level. But Jesus may not have wanted us to just copy everything He did. He did specifically tell us to do many things, including many things He did, and many things He didn't do. I think it's an interesting topic, and one I'm not 100% settled on personally.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10128
Joined: 11/2/03
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58438]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46331
Joined: 4/23/00
|
For me, the bible has many contradictory and confusing
Sep 1, 2022, 2:19 PM
|
|
passages, especially when taken literally or out of comtext. This ain't one of 'em.
To say that one becomes like the company they keep is simply common sense, and is another way of saying to choose your friends wisely, as we are all influenced by our environment, and the messaging we are exposed to every day.
If you believe in the message of the bible, Jesus was here to teach and spread the word, so he had to haang around with the people who needed to hear it the most. But Jesus, being the son of God, was not vulnerable to sin like ordinary people, so there was no danger in him becoming like them.
I'm pretty sure that's the message you're supposed to be getting, and there is nothing contradictory about it.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: For me, the bible has many contradictory and confusing
Sep 1, 2022, 6:14 PM
|
|
Right it’s common sense to everyone, not just Bible believers.
Every Christian is called to spread the gospel.
Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14057
Joined: 9/2/03
|
There are tons of contradictions/conflicts
Sep 1, 2022, 2:19 PM
|
|
in the Bible. Church pews are full of hypocrites and so on.
Let’s all try to treat each other with respect and be better people altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12165]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17895
Joined: 5/16/00
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Sep 1, 2022, 2:21 PM
|
|
as we are all still sinners Christian or not, could say your question isn't relevant
But, Jesus had his inner circle, those who were his closest friends, those he spent the most time with, believers in what He preached. This really isn't a great example, because He wasn't malleable to influence of those around him.
He did befriend sinners, showed them kindness and love and caring that society did not.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Sep 2, 2022, 7:40 AM
|
|
Must be nice to be born without the capacity to sin.
Why couldn't god have made us all like that?
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [56106]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31650
Joined: 8/27/02
|
God creates Earth for man.
Sep 1, 2022, 2:27 PM
|
|
70% salt water.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6402]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11145
Joined: 6/5/21
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Sep 1, 2022, 10:27 PM
|
|
And the ultimate question...
What about all the peeps that lived and died before Christ ever kicked up moral dirt in the Mideast?
Do they get grandfathered into salvation, seeing as how they couldn't have known it was wrong to lust after their neighbor's wives and whatnot? Do they get a pass for thievin' and murderin', just cause of fortuitous biological timing? Have we a biblical scholar on T-net who can address such pressing conundrums?
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93681]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95429
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Is that you, Job?
Sep 2, 2022, 7:59 AM
|
|
Do you seek understanding, are you judging God unfaithful, unholy or unrighteous or are you just thinking 'Aha, I got them with this question cause no one in the history of man has ever answered this one?
Let me know if you're seeking to understand this, if then that any answer might alter your view on God. The proper understanding of the response to your questions is long and complicated and I'm not about to cast pearls before swine, again.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [29877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8845
Joined: 10/31/10
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Sep 2, 2022, 1:04 AM
|
|
I think this is only a contradiction if one sees the Bible too homogeneously. It is a collection of documents, most by different or even multiple authors, over thousands of years.
Lots of different opinions, and viewpoints, and advice in there.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Sep 2, 2022, 7:37 AM
|
|
It is seen by believers as one consistent message from Genesis to Revelation.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93681]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95429
Joined: 12/25/09
|
"Jesus was said to be a friend to sinners?"
Sep 2, 2022, 7:52 AM
|
|
He came "to seek and save the lost."
Good and bad are relative terms to you so back to the lesson on lines. You draw your line on who you judge good and bad and others draw theirs. The only line between good and bad is at the cross of Jesus. On one side was the perfect man, Son of God hanging on a cross; the rest of us are over here in the same boat.
There's a difference between reaching out to the lost with the gentleness, kindness and love of God as Christians are commissioned by Him to do, and joining them in a drunkenorgy.
I want to know just what scripture influence your claim that 'Jesus was said to be a friend of sinners.' I usually get into trouble when I make assumptions and I dare way too often but the only place I can remember reading that in the Bible was when the Pharisees accused him of dining with people they esteemed to be less holy than they, perhaps even 'unholy.' As if any of us are holy without Christ blood on our souls. in frag
It's no wonder that John the baptist called them a generation of vipers.
All in all, I'd say you are reaching.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: "Jesus was said to be a friend to sinners?"
Sep 2, 2022, 9:29 AM
|
|
Yes the Pharisees called him a glutton and a drunk and accused him of sitting with the tax collectors and sinners.
And there is literally a song titled “Jesus friend of sinners” by a very popular Christian rock band.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93681]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95429
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Re: "Jesus was said to be a friend to sinners?"
Sep 2, 2022, 8:29 PM
|
|
They also said His son of Satan yet they sold animals for sacrifice to the worshipers who came then rather than sacrificing the animals they brought them and sold them to others for sacrifice...over and over. Where do you think all that money went?
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10128
Joined: 11/2/03
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Sep 3, 2023, 12:36 AM
|
|
Context. Jesus was teaching sinners.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10128
Joined: 11/2/03
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Oct 6, 2023, 11:48 PM
|
|
No contradiction. Jesus ministered to the siinner.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2156]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 2575
Joined: 6/4/22
|
Re: Another contradiction within Christianity
Oct 7, 2023, 4:17 PM
|
|
By all indication Jesus hung around the bar and drank. How long would a modern day preacher last doing that?
|
|
|
|
Replies: 33
| visibility 151
|
|
|