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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 10:46 AM
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Option 1
- OOC Win %: 77%
- Conference Win %: 53%
- Ranked Wins: 9
- NCAA tourney wins: 2
- ACC tourney wins: 2
- Top 25 finish: 1
Option 2
- OOC Win %: 87%
- ACC win %: 53%
- Ranked wins: 4
- NCAA tourney wins: 0
- ACC tourney wins: 2
- top 25 finish: 2
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Heisman Winner [133568]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 10:54 AM
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option #1
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110%er [8047]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 10:54 AM
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option 1
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Option 2...
Jan 7, 2022, 6:15 PM
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But you are hiding facts of those 4 years that is why #2 I know more details...
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Option 2...
Jan 7, 2022, 8:14 PM
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What stats would you like to be added? And why option 2?
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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The records of those 4 wins and results in the...
Jan 7, 2022, 8:55 PM
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ACCT, our seeds in the NCAAT showing how good of a team we had, and what are opponents did in the NCAAT.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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I mean records of those 4 seasons...
Jan 7, 2022, 8:56 PM
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?
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 10:56 AM
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Are they really ncaa tournament wins or play in game wins?
What years also matter.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 10:57 AM
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Each option is a 4 year stretch. I'm not selectively choosing seasons. Come on, you're smart, you can figure it out.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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You would have to go 12 years ago to the play in win...
Jan 7, 2022, 6:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have? ] |
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Since that is how long between the four year run and that play in tourney for Brad's NCAA bids...
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 10:59 AM
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Also forgot to include the SOS numbers from the site NCtigs shared.
The higher number the better
Option 1
Average SOS: 8.9
Option 2
Average SOS: 7.85
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110%er [8518]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 11:26 AM
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Not much difference, but 2.
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110%er [9662]
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Not enough information.
Jan 7, 2022, 11:33 AM
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Which teams were more exciting to watch?
When they lose a game, does the coach make excuses or does he take responsibility?
It’s not totally about stats, especially when they are fairly close like that.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Not enough information.
Jan 7, 2022, 1:14 PM
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Yes row....
We understand that you prioritize entertainment than actual results on the court. It's pretty selfish of you.
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110%er [9662]
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Funny. All these years, I thought I watched sports for entertainment.
Jan 7, 2022, 1:20 PM
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Thanks for setting me straight.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Funny. All these years, I thought I watched sports for entertainment.
Jan 7, 2022, 1:21 PM
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Some people find entertainment in winning exciting big games.
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110%er [9662]
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That is definitely a big part of it for me as well.***
Jan 7, 2022, 1:26 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: That is definitely a big part of it for me as well.***
Jan 7, 2022, 1:32 PM
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So option 1 is clearly the choice for you, right? They both had the same conference win %. Option 1 beat 9 ranked teams vs only 4 in option 2. Option 1 won 2 NCAA tourney games. Option 1 also had a better SOS.
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110%er [9662]
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No, not clearly.
Jan 7, 2022, 1:49 PM
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A ranked team could be #25 or #1, just for example.
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All-In [43989]
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And an exciting team could be somewhat exciting
Jan 7, 2022, 1:56 PM
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or super exciting.
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All-In [43989]
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It sounds like it's more about emotions for you
Jan 7, 2022, 1:55 PM
[ in reply to Not enough information. ] |
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rather than actual success.
You seem to prioritize feeling good about the team you watch. You want to find them exciting, and approve of how the coach acts and what he says.
Why do those things matter for you so much?
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110%er [9662]
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Yes, that’s actually exactly correct. I’m a fan.
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Jan 7, 2022, 2:02 PM
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I do not simply look up percentages and other stats.
I watch the games. Some games are more fun to watch than others, and some teams are more fun to watch than others- for various reasons.
Weird that you don’t understand that.
Why are there seats in arenas? And why are there games on TV?
Do you think the games should be played in private, and then a stat sheet is released for all to see? You seem to think that’s all that matters.
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All-In [43989]
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I just find it odd that some of you continue to portray
Jan 7, 2022, 3:11 PM
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our basketball program as boring. We are boring to watch, our coach is boring, etc. I read these same statements here regularly.
I get it, nobody wants to watch a boring team, but I'm still not exactly sure why you say our team is boring and our coach is boring
What are you wanting to see? We are one of the best three point shooting teams in the country. That's exciting to me.
Do you want to see more points scored? We are scoring about 75 points per game this year, which is way above average (131st out of 350 division I teams).
Do you want to see better defense? We are giving up about 66 points per game this year, which is also way above average (113th out of 350 division I teams).
So it can't be that we don't score enough, or that our defense is bad, or that we don't shoot threes well.
Is it dunks? Do you want more dunks? If that's keeping you from enjoying our team, how many dunks do you need to see per game to be entertained? How many times per game are the teams you find entertaining dunking the ball?
Our players play very hard, as is customary under Brownell. They dive on the floor for loose balls routinely, and sacrifice their bodies to take charges all the time. You'll see them celebrate a big dunk, an and-one, or a big three. You'll see them try to pump the crowd up. They obviously show emotion. So I don't see how you can find our players boring.
The arena itself is relatively new, with the fan in mind. The sight lines are good, the sound system is good, the video boards are good, and the concession area has plenty of options and amenities. The seats are comfortable. Bathrooms are nice. So I assume you don't have an issue there.
I'm guessing you don't tie on-court success into your entertainment value assessment, because we are winning plenty - this year and over the last 4 years.
As for Brownell, what don't you like about him? He is a very involved coach. He doesn't just sit in his seat all game. You'll typically find him standing, pacing, and actively involved in the game. You'll routinely hear him coaching from the sidelines, yelling instructions. He gestures regularly. He coaches his players when they come off the court. He actively participates in timeouts.
What would make him more entertaining to you? Do you want him to get more technical fouls? Throw a chair?
He is an engaging person in conversation. In interviews, he answers questions thoughtfully and completely. He is very patient with reporters, making sure they don't have any other questions before leaving. You seem to have a problem with this too. Do you want him to drop more F-bombs? Throw a microphone? Go off about how awful officiating was or criticize another coach/team?
Seriously, what's your issue here?
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110%er [9662]
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Bottom line…
1
Jan 7, 2022, 5:12 PM
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It’s not just me.
When Clemson basketball is worth watching, Littlejohn is packed and rocking on a consistent basis.
That’s not a guess. We’ve seen it before, across other decades and multiple coaches.
This does not happen now.
It is not my responsibility to analyze the reasons for it and write a dissertation.
If I were getting paid $2.5 Million, then maybe I’d try to figure it out.
But as a fan, I just know it’s stale and I’m not the only one who thinks so.
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All-In [43989]
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That’s a weak response and you know it.
Jan 7, 2022, 7:09 PM
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I’m asking YOU. Why do you say it’s boring? And what do you require for it to be entertaining?
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110%er [9662]
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You should know something about weak responses.
1
Jan 7, 2022, 7:23 PM
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You still have never been able to tell me how much more money Brad needs, exactly what it would be spent on, and what the expected benefits would be.
I’ve been waiting more than a year for you to figure that out.
When you can answer that, then maybe I’ll put together an analysis of what could make Clemson basketball more attractive to watch.
Until then, my short answer stands: It is stale. You know it.
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Walk-On [110]
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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All-In [28197]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 1:53 PM
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none
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All-In [43989]
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Option 1, no doubt.***
Jan 7, 2022, 1:53 PM
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Legend [16416]
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Message removed by Author
Jan 7, 2022, 1:54 PM
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Message removed by Author
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Legend [16416]
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Deleted my previous response when I realized what a stupid
Jan 7, 2022, 2:02 PM
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question I had asked. Definitely option #1 for me, although I am waiting for the trap.
Judge Keller®, your reply went away with my deleted post, so you can comment again, if you like. Curious to hear if I chose right or wrong. Seems clear to me. Who are the two teams?
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All-In [32580]
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Guessing - 2 different 4 year stretches of ours . . .
Jan 7, 2022, 2:05 PM
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and 1 is probably the most recent 4 years ? ?
Still - what a joke.
2 ACC Tourney wins in FOUR YEARS
and
2 "NCAA Tourney" wins in FOUR YEARS . . . . which I would be willing to bet were both play-in games.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 2:02 PM
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You’ve been a good lackey. I hope you enjoy the farewell tour.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 2:14 PM
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I would not enjoy the farewell tour, because that would mean our team would perform poorly. You obviously want that.
I still think we have a pretty solid team this year, but I wouldn't argue against firing brownell if we fall flat on our face this season. Barring unforeseen transfers or injuries, we should be better next year. The recruiting class coming in is good and I am very excited for next years roster.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 2:45 PM
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Our RPI and net rankings and losses to teams with relatively poor standing in both say we’re already performing poorly.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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How about this question? Which would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 5:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have? ] |
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The last 11 years before this one, or the seven years before that?
How about which would you rather have Brad's last 3 years, OP's last three years, and Barnes last three years?
Brad: 1 NCAA bid
OP: three NCAA bids no wins and ACC Touney championship loss.
Barnes: three NCAA bids and Sweet sixteen
OP and Barnes have a ACCT championship appearance and sweet sixteen in their last three years between them.
They both went to three STRAIGHT NCAA bids.
Is it not how you do in your last three years where you are trending?
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All-In [43989]
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Rick Barnes didn’t have an ACC Tournament championship game appearance.
Jan 7, 2022, 7:14 PM
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It’s funny that you decided on using the last three years instead of four. That way, you left out Brad’s Sweet 16 team and also left out a year when Purnell didn’t make the NCAA Tournament. LOL.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Yes the NIT championship game...
Jan 7, 2022, 8:49 PM
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And first of four straight 20 win seasons. It was OP's 4th season which we were trending upward each season. We went to three straight NCAATs after that.
We went to the NIT Final Four in Brad's fourth season, but after that it took him four more years to make the NCAAT. That NiT premature run was also when DRad made one of his biggest mistakes here by giving Brad a huge contract for many years with a huge buyout. What? Over an NIT run? Stupid...
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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All-In [32580]
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Wait - what we are picking has a criteria that says TWO
Jan 7, 2022, 2:03 PM
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ACC Tourney wins CUMULATIVE in FOUR YEARS of ACC Tourneys ? ? ?
Hilarious. Literally rolling around funny.
Beyond words.
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All-In [43989]
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What's hilarious is that you've posted twice in this thread
Jan 7, 2022, 3:15 PM
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yet still haven't managed to just answer the question.
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All-In [32580]
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Neither - they both suck. Neither are something to aspire to
Jan 7, 2022, 3:34 PM
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Also - while you're here - you and Mountaineer . . . .
You 2 are bat crap crazy if you think for half a nanosecond I or anyone else that LOVES Clemson HOPES we pull for Clemson to lose - in ANYTHING.
I want for CBB to win EVERY SINGLE BASKETBALL GAME HE EVER COACHES AT CLEMSON from tomorrow until he dies. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
The only DUMBER thing you guys say on a pretty consistent basis is something about living rent free in your head or similar.
It's dumb. I read a post from you clowns & respond if I feel like it. There is no further thought about it . . . you've gotta be kidding me that I have any notion of you guys other than when reading ANOTHER blind support, stupid post of yours.
I've answered the question - I'm picking neither of those - it's a dumb question. It's like asking would I rather be a dirt ###### or a leghumper . . . . NEITHER - I WOULD CHOOSE NEITHER.
Judge Keller®
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All-In [43989]
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Thanks for clearing that up.
Jan 7, 2022, 4:24 PM
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I take you at your word that you don’t ever want to see Clemson basketball lose, and take no pleasure in seeing any Clemson basketball team struggle.
Likewise, I hope you’ll take me at my word that I don’t ever want to see Clemson football lose, and take no pleasure in seeing any Clemson football team struggle.
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Oculus Spirit [76698]
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All-In [32580]
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Yeah - decades of Clemson basketball sucking rocks & trolls
Jan 8, 2022, 1:22 PM
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like JK just trolling & trolling - neither make any sense to me.
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Oculus Spirit [76698]
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Don’t let it bug you.
Jan 8, 2022, 1:27 PM
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Let’s say though Neff makes a change this year, who should we target?
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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A few but my top target would be...
Jan 8, 2022, 1:47 PM
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Steele from Xavier.
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Oculus Spirit [76698]
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1***
Jan 7, 2022, 3:44 PM
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Which one went to consecutive NCAATs?
Jan 7, 2022, 5:22 PM
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It can't be Brad...
But it could be OP and Barnes...
You are always trying to turn this into a Brad vs OP? How about Barnes vs Brad? No contest. Lol
All I know is Brad needs to get to consecutive NCAAs.
And if that sweet sixteen did so much how come we can't bring in more top 75 players now? PJ Hall was two years ago.
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All-In [43989]
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Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson?
Jan 7, 2022, 7:18 PM
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It can’t be Brad.
But both Barnes and Purnell do.
Which one left Clemson in the middle of the night, amid rumors of scandal, without even giving Clemson a chance to match another school’s offer?
It can’t be Brad.
But it could be Barnes and Purnell.
We can play this game all day.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson?
Jan 7, 2022, 7:32 PM
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Why does everyone think or act like Keller has an affinity to Brad, the man loves hoops. If Brad is th guy, LFG, if not we need to figure that out ASAP. The standard of our program should be what VT is, not great but good, consistently in the NCAA T and top 4-6 in conference. I’m not sure what it takes to get us there but there is no excuse for us to not be that. And this garbage about us being boring needs to stop, winning is fun, no matter the style. Brad took over OPs last team and turned them into defensive monsters, that team was just as fun as OPs Nolan Richardson’s 60 minutes of hell approach. Most people on here are band wagon or have no Clemson roots, the ones that do care engage in solid debates l and cite real history. We should all have fun in here, JK loves hoop, leave the man alone.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson?
Jan 7, 2022, 7:36 PM
[ in reply to Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson? ] |
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None of those comments make the point you appear to think they’re making. It’s not a a choice between Purnell or Barnes and Brownell. Purnell and Barnes are evidence that more can be expected. Purnell’s departure was an opportunity. All your criticism of Purnell is focuses on his lack of success in the NCAA. But he got there consistently. His leaving was an opportunity to move up the ladder - not down or laterally. A single Sweet 16 in a decade is not much of an accomplishment - particularly when the coach in question returned
3 senior starters, had a 4 senior starting lineup, and future All-ACC sophomore Simms. That team underachieved spectacularly. If anything it is that season the is the indictment of his tenure. The Sweet 16 should have marked a turning point. But it was right back to the NIT and in 19-20 we were certainly not dancing at 16-15 barring an ACC tourney victory.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson?
Jan 7, 2022, 7:41 PM
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I tend to agree with this take, and it’s not a personal attack on JK.
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All-In [43989]
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When he was hired, Brad wasn’t Clemson’s top choice.
Jan 7, 2022, 9:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson? ] |
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He wasn’t Clemson’s second choice either. He was, at best, Clemson’s third choice.
How could that be, if Purnell left such a great team behind, and Clemson had built a reputation for funding and supporting basketball so well?
Maybe, just maybe, plenty of coaches thought it best to stay away from Clemson basketball.
Brownell took the job, and found out that there were significant issues within the program, behind the scenes, that he had no idea about. It took years to repair those issues. He also needed to lobby for better facilities, which he finally got.
Most of our fans are ignorant when it comes to this. They just remember Rick Barnes standing up to Dean Smith, or Purnell’s pressing defense, or that one time camping out for tickets. They don’t see the reality, which is that we are a football school in a basketball conference, with woefully inadequate support for basketball compared to most other teams in the conference. They think we just need a hotshot coach to come in and magically convince star recruits to come to Clemson and play this exciting brand of basketball and win ACC championships, as if it’s that simple.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: When he was hired, Brad wasn’t Clemson’s top choice.
Jan 7, 2022, 10:57 PM
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Rick Stansbury was a terrible choice too. We’re certainly no worse off. If no one notices the Clemson AD does not make big name coaching hires and are notorious cheapskates. The only hope we have is to keep spinning the wheel, hope we hit, then exert enough pressure as fans to keep the guy.
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110%er [9662]
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And it’s past time to spin the wheel again.***
1
Jan 7, 2022, 11:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson?
Jan 7, 2022, 9:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson? ] |
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Barnes left for a better job. Purnell made a lateral move. I don't remember if a reason was given but I would think due to some of the same things that Judge has complained about over the years.
I think that Brownell should have been fired 5 or 6 years ago but since the Sweet Sixteen run I think he has done well enough to justify keeping him. Not enough to get off the hot seat, but recruiting has been better and I keep thinking that we are going to make that next step. Not sure how long baby steps are enough but if we stumble backwards I think we need to choose another direction.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Which one has a losing record in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson?
Jan 8, 2022, 1:07 AM
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Barnes left for a better job. Purnell made a lateral move. I don't remember if a reason was given but I would think due to some of the same things that Judge has complained about over the years.
I think that Brownell should have been fired 5 or 6 years ago but since the Sweet Sixteen run I think he has done well enough to justify keeping him. Not enough to get off the hot seat, but recruiting has been better and I keep thinking that we are going to make that next step. Not sure how long baby steps are enough but if we stumble backwards I think we need to choose another direction.
I agree with this rational take
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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All-In [43989]
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Losing Rick Barnes was a huge loss.
Jan 7, 2022, 9:24 PM
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I consider him the best basketball coach we’ve ever had. However, he knew that he had some huge recruiting misses and was likely in for a down year in ‘98-‘99, and a potentially very bad year in ‘99-‘00.
Look at Shyatt’s first two years if you don’t believe me.
Purnell was a great program builder, but as we saw at Clemson and at his previous stops, he could get a team into the NCAA Tournament and that’s it. Winning there wasn’t going to happen. Like Barnes, he had some recruiting issues and he knew the cupboard was bare in upcoming years. He left while he could, and his stock was at a high point.
Assuming that Barnes and Purnell would have continued their success at Clemson is a dangerous assumption based on the evidence.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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It is also an assumption they would not win...
Jan 7, 2022, 9:37 PM
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Maybe they would have had an off year, but you don't know they would not have figured things out and picked it up again.
It is the same assumption that Brad will be better the next season when he has an off season.
They are all just assumptions and not factual results...
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Which one went to consecutive NCAATs?
Jan 7, 2022, 8:20 PM
[ in reply to Which one went to consecutive NCAATs? ] |
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Yes Rick Barnes was great. I would rather have Rick Barnes in his prime than brownell now. What is your point? Oliver Purnell has been brought up a lot in recent days. I thought it was a relevant discussion.
You have responded a bunch in this thread, but you still have not provided any explanation as to why you would pick option 2.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Because Mount-
Jan 7, 2022, 9:15 PM
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Because option #2 we won 20+ games those 4 seasons and LJ was rated as the top 10 toughest place to play in the NCAA. We had two top 10 match ups in LJ, and were rated in the top 25 more weeks than option #1. You think LJ would be rated in option #1 as a top 10 toughest place to play?
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Legend [17751]
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Push.***
Jan 7, 2022, 7:45 PM
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Which 4 year stretch would you rather have?
Jan 7, 2022, 7:48 PM
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How many games do we play as a top 25 in each option?
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