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Oculus Spirit [91164]
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"Decline by Design"..
Nov 8, 2022, 3:37 PM
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the motto of progressives & lefties since Woodrow Wilson to Obama & now Biden.
They purposely circumvent the Constitution, our Judeo principles, love of individual freedoms and of American exceptionalism..and instead want big & centralized government which seems to be their god.
Vote today, your last chance to be heard & counted!
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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"Love of individual freedoms"
Nov 8, 2022, 3:43 PM
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I wonder how many Pubs are running on a woman's freedom to choose what she does with her body, or the legalization of a plant?
Todays republican in office doesn't love freedom; they love control.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: "Love of individual freedoms"
Nov 8, 2022, 3:51 PM
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No that’s not really it when it comes to abortion.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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What I named aren't individual freedoms?
Nov 8, 2022, 3:53 PM
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I'm listening, please..go on.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: What I named aren't individual freedoms?
Nov 8, 2022, 4:05 PM
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Killing of innocent life is not a freedom. I answered your question. You and I have a different world view so debate will be a waste of time.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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Ok, taking abortion out of the conversation
Nov 8, 2022, 4:09 PM
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How many pubs are running on legalizing weed?
What freedoms are these "freedom loving" (as described by the OP) candidates wanting to expand?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Ok, taking abortion out of the conversation
Nov 8, 2022, 4:11 PM
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Very few are running on making destructive drugs legal.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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Weed is a "destructive drug"?
Nov 8, 2022, 4:14 PM
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Disgonnagetgood.gif
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Weed is a "destructive drug"?
Nov 8, 2022, 4:18 PM
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See here we go. I’ll tell you about how I’ve seen pot used as a gateway drug and can tell you about lives I’ve seen destroyed by drugs. You will tell me I want to take peoples freedoms and around we go. Again, we see things thorough a different lens. Not really in the mood for ping pong right now. Too excited about eating some supper, and checking on the red wave tonight.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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yet none of them are even promising smaller government
Nov 8, 2022, 4:44 PM
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or any additional "individual freedoms" the OP seems to be deluded that he thinks is going to happen.
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All-In [42418]
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This is naive
Nov 8, 2022, 7:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Weed is a "destructive drug"? ] |
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And only goes back to the idea of control. You can't claim to advocate personal responsibility and then want control here.
If you want weed illegal, then you can't support alcohol being legal.
This is an archaic and immature viewpoint.
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110%er [6155]
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Re: Ok, taking abortion out of the conversation
Nov 8, 2022, 8:25 PM
[ in reply to Ok, taking abortion out of the conversation ] |
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Not many. Maybe zero. Dems have held the executive and legislative branches for two years. What have they done here?
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Ok, taking abortion out of the conversation
Nov 8, 2022, 10:32 PM
[ in reply to Ok, taking abortion out of the conversation ] |
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How many pubs are running on legalizing weed?
What freedoms are these "freedom loving" (as described by the OP) candidates wanting to expand?
You can choose not to have unprotected sex just like you can choose to not smoke weed. Correct?
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110%er [7266]
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Re: What I named aren't individual freedoms?
Nov 8, 2022, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to What I named aren't individual freedoms? ] |
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I'll help re: your abortion question.
All women (outside of inmates in NY State's nursing homes or in prison for possessing pepper spray when engaged in the January 6 gathering) can move to the state of their choosing whose abortion laws suit them.
Abortion is now governed by the states, not the Federal Gov't. This is because the medical procedure of abortion is not a US Constitutional right.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: What I named aren't individual freedoms?
Nov 8, 2022, 4:26 PM
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That’s the legal part of it yes.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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So contrary to what the OP said, the question I asked is
Nov 8, 2022, 4:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: What I named aren't individual freedoms? ] |
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what pub is actually running on adding, or even keeping "individual freedoms"? Seems like more pubs want current freedoms taken away rather than grant less laws by which to govern. And smaller government? Which pubs are running on that now antiquated conservative principal?
I'll hang up and listen.
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110%er [9690]
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Granting that particular choice to a woman also includes
Nov 8, 2022, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to "Love of individual freedoms" ] |
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killing a baby. I do think the woman should be granted that choice - but it's not as simple as you would like it to be.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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Just seems to me we are moving to having less
Nov 8, 2022, 4:07 PM
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rights, and having more punishment...and I have a problem with that.
And abortion doesn't even affect me. I'm an old, married white guy with no kids.
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110%er [7266]
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Re: Granting that particular choice to a woman also includes
Nov 8, 2022, 5:05 PM
[ in reply to Granting that particular choice to a woman also includes ] |
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There are circumstances to consider with respect to a woman's preference to have an abortion that are highly similar to a woman's preference to do away with her child.
Is it moral for a woman to abort a child that is able to live and also have a normal life it was outside of the womb?
Should it be legal for a woman to decide whether another viable human being either lives or dies ... simply based on her preferences or conveniences?
The 'heartbeat' bills are just not sensible. There is a parallel between the unfertilized egg and the early fetus (including the fetus which has a heartbeat).
Each egg ... same as the early fetus with a heartbeat ... has the POTENTIAL to become a viable human being. The early stage fetus has a head start over the unfertilized egg, but the egg can become fertilized in a hurry.
Neither the egg nor the early stage fetus can grow into a human being after being removed from the woman's body.
On the other hand, a child and a late stage fetus can (and do) readily live and develop outside of the woman's body.
Children and late stage fetuses therefore have the same natural right to exist, regardless of the mother's preference.
(*) The above is a common sense (and morally justifiable) approach that can truly 'move the ball forward' on this issue. Neither the 'no abortion under any circumstance' -nor- the 'abortion at any time of the pregnant mother's choosing' parties will fully agree with this, but their agendas are at least partially codified by this smart compromise approach.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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So now the same government that Pubs often say are lying
Nov 8, 2022, 5:08 PM
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are going to legislate morality? That's...convenient.
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All-In [40969]
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all women are absolutely free to choose what they do with
Nov 8, 2022, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to "Love of individual freedoms" ] |
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their bodies, it someone else's body that is the issue with abortion. I am pro abortion by the way. We need less people.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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I think abortion is terrible.
Nov 8, 2022, 4:15 PM
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The right to choose to have one however, is not.
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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All-In [40969]
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They have none, that's why they are murdered***
Nov 8, 2022, 5:58 PM
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Hall of Famer [22409]
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The State seizes control of a woman's body at conception.***
Nov 8, 2022, 6:10 PM
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110%er [7266]
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Citizens who don't like it are free to move to another state
Nov 8, 2022, 6:26 PM
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Each individual state gets to decide how and when (or if) an abortion procedure is legal.
Each person is free to move from a state that they don't like to a different state that they like better.
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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That sounds like a realistic solution. What should
Nov 8, 2022, 6:32 PM
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what should poor people do?
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Legend [18026]
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110%er [7266]
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Re: They have none ... fetuses are too young to vote
Nov 8, 2022, 6:22 PM
[ in reply to They have none, that's why they are murdered*** ] |
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Fetuses are also too young to vote; therefore immoral politicians have another reason to not care about them.
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Hall of Famer [22409]
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Fertilized eggs' & zygote's rights dominate the woman's
Nov 8, 2022, 6:32 PM
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rights. Once a man fertilizes an egg, his work is done.
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110%er [7266]
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Re: "Love of individual freedoms / unregulated weed problem
Nov 8, 2022, 4:48 PM
[ in reply to "Love of individual freedoms" ] |
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I'll play ... let's toss the 'legalized week' issue around.
There are state-licensed sources of marijuana for those states in which weed has already been legalized.
Unfortunately, it is not easy to distinguish between state-licensed weed and 'street' weed. The majority of weed (as used in those states in which weed has been legalized) is from non-state-licensed sources.
Why does this matter? Because weed (unlike the abortion / woman's body issue) is a fungible commodity.
Those who have quickly endorsed the widespread legalization of weed haven't thought through the consequences. Not surprising, because young people and also older people who have become dependent upon weed as an sociological crutch are typically driven by emotional ... as opposed to rational ... decision-making processes.
Non-licensed sources of weed can be laced with dangerous stuff ... including fentanyl. Non-licensed weed is also cheaper than state-licensed weed. Guess which one weed lovers will prefer? Any guesses as to why street weed sellers want to 'enhance the fun' of THEIR brand of weed by tweaking it with a little of fentanyl happiness? Might sales of THEIR brand of weed be better if their customers are addicted? Hmmm.
(?) How will state governments control the sale and use of non-licensed sources of weed? Chances are that the states which legalize 'state licensed' weed are already dependent upon the weed-lover voting base. Fat chance that any of these states will spend the time and money to vigorously enforce their own only-state-licensed-weed laws.
Get ready for the fentanyl epidemic to accelerate as more and more states embrace the legalization of something that can be easily abused and which cannot be easily regulated.
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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So you are saying the government needs to protect the public
Nov 8, 2022, 4:56 PM
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from itself, because it knows better? That's an interesting "conservative" ideology. But it seems I have heard that from Republicans talking about "elitist liberals".
Our state governor wants to protect its gay citizens from the evils of marriage--what a nice thing of him to do.
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110%er [7266]
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Re: So you are saying the government needs to protect the public
Nov 8, 2022, 5:27 PM
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The government has always had a role in protecting people.
Medicines, food, building codes (electrical / plumbing / structural), municipal water, road and bridge structures, etc., etc., etc.
It gets trickier with the 'purely recreational' aspects of gov't control. With alcohol, the moonshine distillers are easy to spot (especially these days with IR [Infra-red] scanning that can be done from helicopters (and maybe via satellite these days). Therefore, the gov't can more easily enforce 'purity' standards to which legal distillers must adhere.
Unregulated sale of vegetables from a home garden are also a risk; I could very fine bell peppers if I used certain types of bug spray which are not allowed for use on pepper plants. However, those easy-to-sell peppers would then contain some pretty nasty pesticide residues (therefore harming the consumer of those peppers). But does this mean that people can't grow veggies and sell them at a fruit stand to those in the community? I suspect that most 'family farm' sellers of their vegetables do their very best to grow their vegetables in a safe and responsible manner. But who really knows?
OK, I'm done with the digressions.
Back to weed ... really tough to monitor and control the illegal (and dangerous) uncontrolled risk.
(?) Question back at you (and this isn't rhetorical ... I don't already have an answer for you): Is the societal benefit of constraining a freedom to minimize danger to society worth the infringement(s) on an individual's freedoms?
This sounds like a cop-out, but regardless I'll go with 'it depends on the situation' answer.
With weed legalization, this is a tough call (i.e., one which isn't yet settled in my mind).
What do you say?
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Oculus Spirit [81356]
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I say we've been fighting a war against drugs for a long
Nov 8, 2022, 10:21 PM
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time, and it has been a complete failure. Spending money to keep them from smoking weed is as useless as laws against prostitution.
I don;t see any republicans trying to limit government; all they want to do is control people even more; anyone that says differently is lying.
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All-In [27421]
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Republicans caring about individual freedom in a post-Trump
Nov 8, 2022, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to "Love of individual freedoms" ] |
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paradigm is LAUGHABLE.
KILL THE DRAG QUEENS! ARREST THE JOURNALISTS! KNEEL BEFORE CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM!
Look, if this is the GOP, so be it. But it's not one of Western enlightenment and individual liberty.
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110%er [7266]
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Re: Dear Jimmy ... see below (the response to old Slac)
Nov 8, 2022, 6:27 PM
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NM.
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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Jimmy, he just listed everything he’s heard on foxnews
Nov 8, 2022, 6:48 PM
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and read on those reputable twidder sites
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All-In [27421]
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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You Pubby snowflakes wouldn’t know individual
Nov 8, 2022, 4:43 PM
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freedoms if they bit you on the ice. All you want is the illusion of control over others. Not much freedom there hoss.
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110%er [7266]
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Re: You Pubby snowflakes wouldn’t know individual
Nov 8, 2022, 5:54 PM
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You've got it all figured out ... look at how hard the Republicans are pushing the following:
(1) Disinformation boards (now escalated to misinformation boards) to punish selected speech and writings that displease the Republicans.
(2) New restrictions on a farmer's right to use well water from her/ his own property (whether or not for animal husbandry or crop growing purposes). Republicans hate farmers.
(3) Criminalization of parent's who go to school board meetings and then criticize the school board. (You know, those actively engaged parents whom the Republicans characterize as 'terrorists.') Republicans hate parents who are interested and concerned about the sexual grooming of their kids.
(4) The push to impose ESG criteria to lenders so that the lender must discriminate against potential borrowers. Those Republicans hate merit-based / financial-metrics-based lending; needs to suspend the freedoms of banks and borrowers to make conduct financial transactions of mutual interest to them.
(5) The philosophical desire by Republicans to eliminate state & local police forces and to replace them with a national police force. Republicans sure hate it when the the citizens are free to exercise their constitutionally protected right to choose how their local government protects them.
(6) Republican efforts to dismantle the USA's carbon based energy infrastructure so that individuals will have no choice between (a) utilizing readily available energy to heat their homes + run their equipment -versus- (b) going cold in the winter, hot in the summer, and becoming generally immobile. Freedoms schmeedoms, the Republicans are going to shove their Green Energy farce down every citizen's throat whether they like it or not.
Yes indeed Old Slac, you nailed it on the head. Those evil Republicans are really into destroying the freedoms that Americans enjoy.
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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You spent that much time writing out that drivel?
Nov 8, 2022, 6:44 PM
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Murica needs two functioning parties, Chief, and yours ain’t too compatible with freedom right now.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: You spent that much time writing out that drivel?
Nov 8, 2022, 7:19 PM
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We’ve been laughing at this desperate “threat to democracy” narrative but I swear some people are starting to believe it. Hard to fathom that level of ignorance.
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All-TigerNet [11247]
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Hard to fathom people voting to give away their
Nov 8, 2022, 7:51 PM
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individual rights to let uneducated idiots(Taylor Greene, boebert, walker, Tuberville) govern. Eff people That vote for that.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: "Decline by Design"..
Nov 9, 2022, 5:41 AM
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You're senile.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: "Decline by Design"..
Nov 9, 2022, 7:11 AM
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You have been conned. Gullible.
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