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Replies: 51
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TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 8:00 AM
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110%er [7191]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 8:14 AM
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I agree that we have to get better, but how do you get better when most of the teams you are looking at only make you bigger?
The Key is Notre Dame. Not only does it help the conference but should help them. However ,if they are not interested in full membership then the member schools should vote to kick them out entirely.
And I say that because while bigger, and better are both important questions, so is the question of "UNITY". The conference needs to be united, one way or another, or Notre Dame will have full run over what ever they want in terms of football .They showed that last season.
And if that happens the ACC will continue to fall back, and IMO, could even become the laughing stock of the power conferences.
Besides ,having them as a full contributing member of football should help if you wanted to go after Penn State or maybe even Maryland.
Finally I can see Notre Dame and PSU leading the way in a northern division with Clemson, and hopefully a better FSU and Miami leading the South.
As regards to pods, I will leave that until we do actually expand.
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110%er [7134]
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how was this not the goal last time?
Jul 26, 2021, 8:17 AM
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So they were just trying to add teams just to add them? Lobby for good teams this time please. Remember there was a time not too long ago that the ACC was seriously looking to add Connecticut?
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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It probably was, but the ACC wasn't and really still isnt
Jul 26, 2021, 8:41 AM
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an attractive destination for most of the good football schools that are potentially looking to move. The ACC isn't getting anyone like Texas or Oklahoma.
Adding West Virginia is just like adding another Louisville. Outside of ND, it's probably the ACC's best option and it's still not going to move the needle. Mediocre football, currently good basketball (but not guaranteed to last beyond the current HC), poor academics, trashy fan base. It's seriously Louisville but without as much traditional success in basketball.
Getting ND as a full member is really the only relevant thing the ACC can do right now and 100% of their focus should be on that.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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110%er [7919]
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Re: Because John Swofford is a moron.***
Jul 26, 2021, 10:05 AM
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Swofford is a moron but not because of this issue. The ACC started out as a regional basketball conference. Many of the schools are in the same TV market. Not much he could have done about that as the schools were already in the fold. We bet on basketball and it turns out that Football was king plus our basketball has not been elite for some time.
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Scout Team [179]
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Re: Because John Swofford is a moron.***
Jul 26, 2021, 2:28 PM
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Actually the ACC was formed due to football by Frank Howard & the Maryland AD. Tobacco Road schools later formed a caucus & steered decisions based on basketball. Getting FSU helped blow that apart.
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Scout Team [179]
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Re: Because John Swofford is a moron.***
Jul 26, 2021, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Because John Swofford is a moron.*** ] |
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Actually the ACC was formed due to football by Frank Howard & the Maryland AD. Tobacco Road schools later formed a caucus & steered decisions based on basketball. Getting FSU helped blow that apart.
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CU Guru [1722]
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Re: Because John Swofford is a moron.***
Jul 26, 2021, 5:40 PM
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Exactly. SoCon said no bowls and Clemson and Maryland left and took Tobacco Rd with them. Entirely a football move.
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Oculus Spirit [82946]
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Laughing at guys who keep saying this. What other football
Jul 26, 2021, 9:43 AM
[ in reply to how was this not the goal last time? ] |
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schools could the ACC have gone after? They got three good football schools in Miami, BC, and VT. Syracuse had a history of being good at football at times, smoking us in 95 Gator. All four have regressed since they joined.
Who else? UCF and WVU were the only viable options who have respectable football since expansion.
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Orange Blooded [3913]
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How do people forget this? ACC looked likea powerhouse to be
Jul 26, 2021, 10:52 AM
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when we added those guys at the time!
I guess people also forget stuff like Bama being bad (at least mediocre) for years and years before Saban...
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CU Medallion [55256]
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Re: how was this not the goal last time?
Jul 26, 2021, 11:04 AM
[ in reply to how was this not the goal last time? ] |
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That was under the trash man Swofford, there is a new Sheriff running the ACC now, and hopefully he gets serious about making the ACC stronger in the sports that bring in the most money for the conference, and the member schools that are serious about making their FB, Baseball, and Basketball programs the toughest in the country. Everything else is secondary, especially to FB IMO!!!!
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CU Guru [1698]
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I’m all for the ACC going after ND
Jul 26, 2021, 8:22 AM
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That’s a no brainer. I’ve become less and less confident that they’ll join. Maybe I’m wrong.
Let’s say they don’t. WVU is the suggested next best option. When the SEC adds Texas and Oklahoma and we respond with adding West Virginia that’s going to be laughable. It’d be like getting a Chick-fil-A and Zaxbys added to your town and the next town over responds with adding a Long John Silver.
The more I’ve read and the more I’ve thought about it, Clemson needs to do what’s best for CLEMSON even if that means leaving the ACC.
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Orange Blooded [3710]
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Re: I’m all for the ACC going after ND
Jul 26, 2021, 10:40 AM
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######, this ChikfilA reference is hitting below the belt with our recruiting issues around
them. LOL
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Starter [383]
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CU Guru [1698]
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Can’t help you there.***
Jul 26, 2021, 10:58 AM
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CU Guru [1417]
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Agree 100% with your last sentence.
Jul 26, 2021, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to I’m all for the ACC going after ND ] |
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Clemson needs to do what’s best for Clemson.
But realistically, what’s our best option (other than finagling an invitation to join the SEC)?
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Recruit [85]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 8:29 AM
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I think the biggest question for Notre Dame is what you point out in the article - will the marquee schools schedule tough OOC games when in a super conference? If the answer is no, that hurts an independent like Notre Dame and drives down the value of their media rights. I think they have to look long and hard about joining a conference based on that changing dynamic.
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110%er [7919]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 8:31 AM
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I would add a 4th pod with Oklahoma St, Iowa St, Nebraska, Baylor, Tx Tech
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All-In [48019]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 8:42 AM
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Agree. West Va does nothing for us. Makes us look reactionary once again. At least the teams you suggested add some national appeal and expand our TV market.
Who will tune in to watch BC/west va? But they might tune in to watch BC/Nebraska or OK st.
At least an ok st would add off sports.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 27, 2021, 3:08 AM
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I'd rather watch WVU than Duke, Wake Forest, BC, Pitt or Syracuse. I go to some Pitt games at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh and it's a great stadium but Pitt is bad and hardly anybody goes to the games.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 27, 2021, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger ] |
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Agree. West Va does nothing for us. Makes us look reactionary once again. At least the teams you suggested add some national appeal and expand our TV market.
Who will tune in to watch BC/west va? But they might tune in to watch BC/Nebraska or OK st.
At least an ok st would add off sports.
Alot of yalls replies are the reason acc is in the shape its in we keep taking crappy teams just bc they're in a good market even thou nobody in those markets watches them play.. wvu brings excitement but we chose pitt bc Syracuse ect. Give wake forest child support checks and now yall wanna add Cincinnati? Wow
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Freshman [9]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger ] |
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The moment you add Texas Tech into the ACC, you add the largest or 2nd largest school at 40K students into the ACC with an endowment as large or larger than most except Duke, UNC and maybe Pitt.
Plus you get the Texas market and more specifically the DFW market where Texas Tech has the largest alumni base.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 11:42 AM
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I agree that having a Texas presence would help future TV deals, but your comments on endowments is off. TT endowment is 1.3B and that puts them on par with Syracuse, NC State, VT and Wake, which is middle of the pack. Only 4 schools below them and 7 above them.
The bigger issue we have is that we have a crappy TV deal with ESPN/Disney and the ACC network, where our rights are secured for another 20 years at below market rates.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 12:42 PM
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Lets not get so wrapped up in exact numbers from wikipedia. My point is of course that Texas Tech endowment is a general measuring of the strength of the university and sorry I did not include GT. Of course Texas Tech does not have the endowment of dook or uva but is strong for a school less than 100 years old.
The real issue is Texas Tech would instantly be one of the largest schools in the ACC and bring the Texas / DFW market and a substantial fan base.
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CU Medallion [55256]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger ] |
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I totally agree, add those 5, and may be Our FB team can play a team with at least a threat of winning bc, since FSU fell of the map of being a team that could contend for a NC, Clemson now rolls over everybody the way FSU did when Bobby Bowden, and his FSU teams came to the ACC!!!!
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All-TigerNet [10798]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 8:49 AM
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Sounds like Dabo understands the recruiting importance of maintaining our annual yearly match ups with GT, FSU and some NC schools. We need to keep those yearly games in the states of Ga. Fl and NC.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Translation...
Jul 26, 2021, 9:07 AM
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Put out or get out !!!!
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Legend [19278]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 8:54 AM
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I think this is the time to make a proposal to Notre Dame, either get in or get out. We have dated long enough sweetheart, time to decide.
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1st Rounder [612]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 11:53 PM
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I TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING and now for the but part.
Notre Dame has us (ACC) by the foot-balls.
currently it would cost them a lot of money to get out of the ACC- I believe and I could be wrong they are tied up for several years-
So let says we give the you are either in or you are out speech- they say we are out- I believe it would be easier for them to break the contract. They could then say hey we can $85 million for going to the Big 10 (tv contract). Notre Dame got just what they wanted last year- when the ACC kissed their green behinds and let them in- It should have been you are in or out at that point.
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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I hope BC realizes that we switched the game to their place***
Jul 26, 2021, 8:59 AM
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Scout Team [166]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 9:19 AM
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I'm stunned your reaction to the SEC becoming a super conference and sucking up more college football broadcasting time and money is to sell a dream about ND joining the ACC and suggest WV somehow will make us a better conference. Seems completely out of touch with reality. IMO reality suggests we acknowledge the ACC needs to make a substantially bigger move in order to remain relevant, shed the image of a week football conference and garner Clemson the money we need to maintain current success and compete with SEC teams making 10-20m more per year. How about demanding the ACC goes after much bigger fish and while that discussion is going on we reach out to the SEC? The SEC move to build a super conference is cataclysmic and potentially devastating for Clemson's future success. If substantial and impactful changes are not made to our conference alignment we will not be able to rely on Dabo's magic to maintain our current success as we get out spent and out branded.
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Oculus Spirit [96772]
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You nailed it: bigger is not always better...
Jul 26, 2021, 9:31 AM
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Signed,
Francis Marion®
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Orange Blooded [2023]
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I agree with the premise of the article…
Jul 26, 2021, 9:50 AM
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But the content doesn’t reflect the premise…
You don’t counter an OU/UT move with WVU….
WVU in no way matches the history or financial prowess of OU or UT….
They have a historical losing record to 8 current ACC programs…
And a neutral record versus Clemson and UNC but only because Clemson and UNC have both only played WVU twice….
ND is the natural choice beyond that - I don’t know …I suppose it would be fine to add WVU to get to 16….but not just WVU..
Swofford has mismanaged the ACC’s football fortunes for years…he handed Phillips a problem from Day 1….
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CU Medallion [55256]
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Re: I agree with the premise of the article…
Jul 26, 2021, 11:59 AM
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CU51996 Says, Swofford has mismanaged the ACC’s football fortunes for years…he handed Phillips a problem from Day 1.
This is the absolute truth, and we better believe that Swofford left Phillips with problems that can't be fixed by adding WVU or ND.
IMO, the ACC needs a overhaul, and I'm not sure that Phillips has the power to undo some of the absolute brain farts that Swofford committed the ACC to!!!!
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Freshman [0]
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Re: I agree with the premise of the article…
Jul 27, 2021, 3:12 AM
[ in reply to I agree with the premise of the article… ] |
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So WVU is terrible but Pitt is ok? I've been to quite a few Pitt games. It's a poor product.
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Starter [378]
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Can WE get an SEC invite too???
Jul 26, 2021, 9:44 AM
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we should pack it up IMMEDIATELY
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Mascot [15]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 10:04 AM
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I say get 15 teams then it schedules up perfectly. Have two permanent rivals (GT and FSU for Clemson) and the other 12 teams you play on a rotational schedule. So for an 8 game schedule, you get GT away, FSU at home, then three home conference games and three away. The next year the permanent rivals flip, and three new conference games rotate in. No pods, no divisions.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 10:08 AM
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Anything less than Notre Dame is not worth doing. Even that may not be enough. The ACC REALLY NEEDS Notre Dame AND Penn State to complete. And that seems highly unlikely.
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Team Captain [478]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 10:28 AM
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I don't think the ACC needs to freak out and take desperate action. The SEC is what it is.
Personally, for balance reasons, I think it would be beneficial to have ND join and for the other team to be WVU.
The Mountaineers are a football-first school, and they have a great fan base. Are they Harvard? No. But neither is Louisville.
I don't see the Big 10 losing teams, so I think Penn State is not an option.
But I think the Big 12 will begin to dissolve, and West Virginia will be available.
Just my 2 cents
I think if the league could grab those 2 teams it would be great for both football and basketball.
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Trainer [29]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 10:33 AM
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First order of business for the rest of the country to is make some sense of the SEC's motivations. Too much speculation going around. Yes, it's about the money, that should go without saying. But it's deeper than that. Those nuances haven't been flushed out publicly.
As for the ACC, potential growth to 16-team (from a quasi 15 teams) has been the plan all along. I don't see any scenario where the ACC can match up with the quality of OU and Texas - so let's get that out of the way. Truth is, conferences and teams tend to cycle in and out of position of strengths and weakness. It's a real shame we haven't seen Miami, FSU, Va Tech, UNC, and NC State rise up in recent years, but I'm not sure why the rush to panic. However, if the race to grab new revenues is the goal than the ACC is already doomed. Has been for some time.
If you really want to recreate a 'super conference', then I think the ACC and BIG10 could make an 18 (3 pods of 6) or 21 (3 pods of 7) team while flushing out the true bottom dwellers. This would crush the SEC in terms of value. Just a thought.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 27, 2021, 3:15 AM
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totally agree. I turn the channel if a Duke or Wake game comes on.
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CU Medallion [55256]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 11:34 AM
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After reading this article, I'm wondering where did this, "Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger" come from? Is this the opinion of the T-Net writer, or did it roll off the tongue of the ACC commissioner???
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110%er [5371]
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pods are a stupid idea
Jul 26, 2021, 11:39 AM
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You'd need some form a two-round playoff system to determine the ACC champ if you use pods. Expand to 9 conference games and you could do that. But IMO we need to ELIMINATE the entire "division" system. Keep the conference rivalries and schedule around those. Best two records play the championship game.
We erased the divisional lines last year during Covid... we should make that permanent.
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All-TigerNet [12529]
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Agree with everythihg about ND and WVU, but the pods are
Jul 26, 2021, 12:45 PM
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way to unbalanced. Assuming FSU and Miami get back to even a fraction of their potential, then that would be an unfare balance of power.
THe Notre Dame as a 15th and no more and West Virginia as a 16th if needed is exactly what I have been saying, but no pods. Just have a 15 or 16 team league with no divisions.
But there is no doube, West Virginia needs to be the 16th team. There is nobody that is even close to checking all the boxes like they do.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 2:14 PM
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NO to WVu!
I think the obvious option, after Notre Dame and PSU, is Cincinnati.
HUGE Ohio and Mid-West TV market, fertile recruiting area, they are pushing football hard, and it puts us in Ohio States backyard!
It's smart from a TV and recruiting perspective AND the bonus of pissing off the OSU fans and coaches!
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Freshman [0]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 27, 2021, 3:17 AM
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You mean the soverign state of Cincinnati? They don't really consider themselves as being in Ohio.
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Orange Blooded [2760]
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Different take on this
Jul 26, 2021, 5:10 PM
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Develop a football only conference with the best of the rest after the SEC takes the top two out of the B12, go after USC (real one), Oregon, ASU, et all that make up the best grouping. This will avoid non-revenue sports from having to travel so much due to # of games and associated cost. Going to LA versus Boston or Syracuse is not a huge cost delta.
You could bring in other viable sports if and when it made sense.
I hate this whole crap as I don’t think it is coincidence the transfer, NIL and conference realignment are happening within a few months.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 5:41 PM
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$ drive all of this, not regionality. West VA would add zero $. By adding UT $ to already burgeoning SEC coffers, in 2-3 yrs, despite what u think, Clemson could not be expected to recruit equally vs SEC. The only good thing re OU/ UT to SEC is 2 more SEC teams to add to S Carolina losses. As I see it at this early stage, only way Clemson wins in all of this is to join SEC.
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110%er [8515]
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 26, 2021, 11:03 PM
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I get this except the issue with trips to Pitt and Syracuse. If they were 3 "pods" and Pitt and Cuse were in the same pod then we could still trips to those cities in the same year.
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Orange Blooded [3044]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3682
Joined: 11/15/09
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 27, 2021, 4:59 AM
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Conference loyalty, rivalries and geography mean little these days. All games are on TV, travel is easy and money rules. I wouldn’t be upset if we end up in a grouping, call it conference if you want, with Southern Cal, Oregon, Ok St. and so on.
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Letterman [282]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 395
Joined: 5/30/20
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Re: TNET: Conference Realignment: ACC must get better, not just bigger
Jul 27, 2021, 3:23 PM
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If the ACC's football powerhouses would simply return to form (Miami, FSU, VT) most of our problems would be solved. A Miami/FSU/Clemson trio fighting for the playoffs is what we need, with VT, UNC and GaTech nipping at their heels.
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