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Replies: 41
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Game Changer [1720]
TigerPulse: 100%
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We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
Oct 21, 2025, 12:04 PM
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Yes - coaches can leverage average talent to slightly above average; or slightly above to really good. Our talent level, however, is low enough now that coaching won't put us back in the conference race or playoff hunt.
Everything seems to be broken right now, but all is not broken. We just need bigger, stronger, faster dudes who are football players.
If Bear Bryant brought back the Junction Boys, if Saban came here with Kiffin, or if Lombardi gave all of his speeches to the team, it WOULD NOT MATTER. Maybe they could inject a little more effort, but like my dad used to say about some of his beloved app state mountaineers (Pre-national championships), "we're small, but we're slow".
My over/under for the number of 1s/2s type players needed to be brought in from the portal during the off season is 13. Anything less, and we'll keep trying to get to 7/8 wins. Anything more, and the team may have a chance to be in the top four of the conference.
Here's to hoping!
Go Tigers!
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Standout [225]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.***
Oct 21, 2025, 12:08 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
TigerPulse: 94%
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This is simply not true ...
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Oct 21, 2025, 12:34 PM
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coaching matters more than a little. Especially in games that are close enough that neither side is getting blown out. The talent is the most important single factor, but the coaching is no small matter.
Everyone and their brother assessed Clemson's defense as elite this year. And gobs of people thought Clemson as a whole was good enough to either win the nat'l championship or at least go deep into the playoff. The vast vast majority thought we'd at least make the playoff. And absolutely EVERYONE thought Clemson was good enough to have an 8 to 10 wins season, and go to a bowl.
Even if the highest assessment of Clemson's talent was off, was it off to the tune of what we're seeing now? Of course not.
Everybody's confusing the fact that we have less talent than we did some years ago with the idea that we therefore don't have enough talent to do substantially better than we're doing. But there's plenty of daylight between 2018 success and 3-4.
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
TigerPulse: 94%
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My bad, didn't mean to respond here***
Oct 21, 2025, 12:35 PM
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Nn
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: This is simply not true ...
Oct 21, 2025, 12:37 PM
[ in reply to This is simply not true ... ] |
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Yes it was off that much. The reason the assessments were incorrect was they were making those assessments based off a cup of players like TJ Parker or Peter woods. The problem is the other guys on the field with them are a huge drop off in talent.
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All-TigerNet [5796]
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Re: This is simply not true ...
Oct 21, 2025, 12:45 PM
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Those 2 have been big disappointments as well
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Nah, not buying that . . .
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Oct 21, 2025, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: This is simply not true ... ] |
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3-4 is not simply reducible to talent overestimate. To say it was off isn't to say that 3-4 is the best that could be done w/ this talent. And that EVERYBODY (not just CDS and staff) missed it. Besides, underperformance is not synonymous with talent. There isn't a straight-line correspondence between underperformance and lack of baseline talent. To say there is is to assume that the development is all that it could be, and that the underlying baseline talent is **the**, rather than **a** problem. I do think it's an issue, mind you, but
And as far as other (non-developmental) coaching elements are concerned, while I don't think anyone in their right mind would disagree that the jimmies and joes are the single biggest factor - they definitely are, but all throughout Dabo's tenure (even during the good times) calls have been closer than they should have (sometimes resulting in a loss, sometimes not) b/c of aloofness on special teams, poor game-flow management, awful clock management, etc. have constantly been put in our way by CDS and staff.
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Nah, not buying that . . .
Oct 21, 2025, 2:18 PM
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I don't care if you buy it or not. That's the truth. The reason that we've gotten beaten by these other teams as they simply have better players. We have players who are not fast enough not athletic enough or not big enough to hold up against better teams.
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
TigerPulse: 94%
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When I say I don't buy it . . .
Oct 21, 2025, 2:22 PM
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what I mean is that I don't buy it because it's not true. And it's not. As many have said on this board, it isn't, and rarely ever is, just any one, singular thing. No one much that I can see denies that talent is the single biggest factor. But that's a far cry from nothing else much mattering.
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Clemson Sports Icon [54053]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Posts: 38717
Joined: 2003
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If Syracuse, Georgia Tech, and SMU are more talented than we are
Oct 21, 2025, 5:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Nah, not buying that . . . ] |
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Dabo is really horrible at his job.
Is this really the hill you want to die on?
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CU Medallion [19044]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2015
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I cannot imagine P.W. or Parker being non-existent at UGA/OSU etc. I just can't.***
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Oct 21, 2025, 12:13 PM
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: I cannot imagine P.W. or Parker being non-existent at UGA/OSU etc. I just can't.***
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Oct 21, 2025, 12:26 PM
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Yeah because they would have a bunch of good players around them.
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1st Rounder [609]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Asst Coach [846]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Asst Coach [846]
TigerPulse: 100%
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If you argue that we need more talented players...
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Oct 21, 2025, 12:17 PM
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...to overcome the lack of talented coaches, I could agree with that position.
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Tiger Titan [48938]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 11830
Joined: 2017
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Lol
Oct 21, 2025, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much. ] |
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Recruit rankings can be about as accurate preseason polls. Sometimes they’re right. Sometimes they’re wrong. Clearly anyone who thinks we had the 5th most talented roster is wrong. I remember how physically imposing our teams were during our six year playoff streak. Our teams the last couple of seasons don’t even physically look the part of a national championship contender.
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Asst Coach [846]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Lol
Oct 21, 2025, 3:22 PM
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You’re correct that I’m following someone’s arbitrary paper rankings. With that said, neither of us can know if these recruits aren’t underperforming because they’re being undercoached. It’s impossible to get a good side by side comparison of the same players with an entirely different group of coaches.
We did see that at the individual level, Mukuba, our freshman all American safety after regressing for a few years at Clemson returned to elite play when he transferred to Texas last year.
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Clemson Sports Icon [54053]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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It isnt a talent issue nearly as much as it is a coaching issue.
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Oct 21, 2025, 5:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much. ] |
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But the best argument the Dabo cultists have is that poor Dabo is at a talent disadvantage, supposedly because Clemson is too poor or too honest to engage in recruiting practices that the elite teams use, so we are left with inferior talent that Dabo & Co. just can’t be overcome. Poor babies!
Don’t get me wrong - we do need more talent at certain positions - but that could be easily remedied by using the transfer portal and hiring better coaches to develop the talent we do have.
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Orange Beast [6559]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Strength and Conditioning Coach is AWOL
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Oct 21, 2025, 12:20 PM
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We have a tremendous weight room facility, but it doesn't look like it is paying dividends to our linemen on either side of the ball. I'm not even sure who it is supposed to be...Pearman maybe??
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Strength and Conditioning Coach is AWOL
Oct 21, 2025, 12:27 PM
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Strength and conditioning doesn't fix talent.
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Tiger Titan [48938]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Strength and Conditioning Coach is AWOL
Oct 21, 2025, 12:40 PM
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You’d be surprised how much a great S&C program can enhance the talent you have.
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Strength and Conditioning Coach is AWOL
Oct 21, 2025, 2:19 PM
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No it can't. Strength and conditioning is not going magically turn somebody into 4.4 guy.
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CU Guru [1555]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You really trust this staff to evaluate talent?
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Oct 21, 2025, 12:21 PM
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If the issue really is just lack of talent, who's fault it that? The only person that would get a pass is Allen, because he wasn't here for the last 4 or 5 recruiting cycles. The rest should be let go because they've failed to properly evaluate and bring in the right players.
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Team Captain [457]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
Oct 21, 2025, 12:25 PM
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Clemson cant afford the required elite talent you're referring to. That's the real issue!
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Clemson Sports Icon [54053]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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This is the ultimate cop out.***
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Oct 21, 2025, 5:35 PM
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Game Changer [1697]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
Oct 21, 2025, 12:27 PM
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I couldn't disagree with you more. There's plenty of talent on this roster. What is needed is more heart, and more motivation of the heart that's there. There's a reason successful coaches make so much money. Imagine, if you will, trying to make a living on the backs of 18-22 year old males. Their minds are all over the place, just like mine was 50 years ago. Yet some people have the ability to capture their thinking and motivate them to be the best they can be. Dabo has been one of those guys for quite some time. The last couple of years have been an anomaly. I believe he will "figure it out" and our Tigers will challenge for Championships again. Many of you do not, and that's your prerogative. But having lived through the years of drought as a Clemson Tiger, I'd much rather "stick it out" with Dabo than take a chance on someone who has never been to the top of the mountain. Heck, I've got a Coke bottle celebrating the fact that we were undefeated "at home" in 1974. That was a big enough accomplishment that the local bottler made a commemorative bottle. It may be again, but I don't think so. Changes need to be made for sure, but not at the top. I still believe! Go Tigers!
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
Oct 21, 2025, 12:28 PM
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No he's correct the issue is talent. They simply don't have the speed or the athletic ability this necessary.
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Game Changer [1720]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Man- I started where you are - if they played with more heart and with a better
Oct 21, 2025, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much. ] |
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scheme, we'd be good. They're simply not bigger and faster with quicker twitch than half of our opponents. You could argue they're the same size/speed as half of the teams we play, and then that's where coaching comes in.
Trust your eyes on this one.
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Not true ...
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Oct 21, 2025, 12:35 PM
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coaching matters more than a little. Especially in games that are close enough that neither side is getting blown out. The talent is the most important single factor, but the coaching is no small matter.
Everyone and their brother assessed Clemson's defense as elite this year. And gobs of people thought Clemson as a whole was good enough to either win the nat'l championship or at least go deep into the playoff. The vast vast majority thought we'd at least make the playoff. And absolutely EVERYONE thought Clemson was good enough to have an 8 to 10 wins season, and go to a bowl.
Even if the highest assessment of Clemson's talent was off, was it off to the tune of what we're seeing now? Of course not.
Everybody's confusing the fact that we have less talent than we did some years ago with the idea that we therefore don't have enough talent to do substantially better than we're doing. But there's plenty of daylight between 2018 success and 3-4
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Game Changer [1720]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I don't disagree... you say "in games that are close enough". Right now,
Oct 21, 2025, 12:50 PM
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we are not close to competing talent-to-talent with the top fifteen or 20 in the country; thus, elite coaching will not get us over that hump.
What changed my thoughts on this after thinking EVERYTHING is wrong is a few clips that I watched last night from the 2015 Orange Bowl vs Oklahoma. Our D was FLYING and they were BIG. They were flying because they were faster than Oklahoma - yes BV motivated, but even if someone is playing with their hair on fire, they still have to have physical ability (size and speed).
I also agree - we SHOULD have one or two more wins. But we can't out run or out-physical many teams just man to man.
Please ask yourself - how many on our offensive side will go the NFL above the third/fourth round? No one on the OL. Not the QB (most likely). One WR. Not our one RB. Defensively three guys are highly rated, 13 will get a shot, Hampton's good, but surrounding cast is a dropoff.
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
TigerPulse: 94%
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I appreciate that distinction and don't disagree either . . .
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Oct 21, 2025, 1:25 PM
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but this isn't just about one or two more wins this year, it's about constantly getting in our way when it comes to competent play, and that matters whether you're top 15 or not. It might cause even more of a problem when you're not top 15, b/c you're losing more games and need to compensate for talent gaps whereever you can, but even in our meaty years we always got in our own way, but sometimes it just didn't cost us a game (and other times it did - see Pitt 2016 for one of the dumbest calls CDS and his staff ever made).
Even if we had comparable talent to the teams you're referring to, bad coaching can flub away opportunities against comparable talent - and we've done that before, even against lesser talented teams (AND comparable ones). You don't just win b/c you're in the same general talent range as another team.
Furthermore, part of "talent" is development. It might be hard to say - to quantify- exactly how much of the talent problem is baseline player talent vs. developmental talent, but it's safe to say it's some of both, in which case even the "talent" problem is, to some degree, a coaching problem. Again, the only other conclusion is that everyone short of God was wrong about the fact that this was simply a 3-4 squad even at their top potential.
I think the point you're really hammering is that talent is the single most important factor, and I think that's undeniable.
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Game Changer [1720]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Fair. Maybe I could have rephrased . Coaching matters; S&C matters;
Oct 21, 2025, 2:59 PM
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but talent matters most.
Go Tigers!
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Paw Warrior [5046]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
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Oct 21, 2025, 1:54 PM
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What we’re seeing this season isn’t a “now” problem, it’s one that’s been festering for several seasons, and is 1000% a coaching problem. The lack of development by our clown show of nepo hire choaches is killing us and many of us have been calling that out for several seasons now because this is exactly what we said would come to pass.
The level of talent on the team is squarely the coaches problem, either we underrecruited, underscouted, or underdeveloped, or a combination of the 3. But all of those problems land at the feet of the coaching staff.
And don’t give me the portal / NIL / kids these days nonsense. We may not have the same level of funding as Ohio State or the Texas Schools but if Vandy, IU, and others can put together competent teams there’s absolutely no reason we can’t as well
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CU Guru [1511]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: this is easy
Oct 21, 2025, 1:59 PM
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Who on the current roster starts on the 2018 team ?
Any Wilkins, Dex, Renfrow, Lawrence, entinne , AJ Terrell …. I could go on and on … on the current roster
While there are many issues …. Talent is the biggest issue
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Paw Warrior [5046]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: this is easy
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Oct 21, 2025, 2:34 PM
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Who recruits the talent? Who develops the talent? Who develops the depth that allows for rotation of stars like Wilkins and Big Dex to get breathers? That’s all coaching. And if the recruits we bring in aren’t good enough it’s up to the coaches to re-recruit the position whether it be via the portal or high school.
The players aren’t blameless, but the gross majority of it belongs to the coaches
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Game Changer [2061]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: this is easy
Oct 21, 2025, 2:40 PM
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They're trying to recruit better players comma the better players are just going to other schools and we have to take what's left
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Paw Warrior [5046]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: this is easy
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Oct 21, 2025, 4:46 PM
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And there it is, they’re failing at their jobs if they can’t get the level of talent we need through the door
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Clemson Sports Icon [54053]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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If thats true, why is our coaching staff budget among the highest?
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Oct 21, 2025, 5:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: this is easy ] |
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Why are we paying these guys so much?
We can find plenty of coaches who can get us to 3-4 on the season.
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Starter [273]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
Oct 21, 2025, 1:58 PM
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Talent will pay dividends immediately next year but wont get us a playoff spot or championship necessarily. We need a staff capable of evaluating personalities week by week and able to adjust accordingly during games to be able to win them “how they have to be won” rather than us being able to do what we want to do. That staff has to have a framework in place and a playbook ready for portal guys that plug and play as well as high school guys we recruit and develop
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Game Changer [1732]
TigerPulse: 61%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
Oct 21, 2025, 2:01 PM
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GaTech, Louisville, Duke, Wake are all doing better than us with less talent!!! yes we need talent in a big way but the coaching is putrid !!
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1st Rounder [609]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We need more talent. None of the rest matters that much.
Oct 21, 2025, 5:49 PM
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I don’t beiieve GA Tech and Louisville have less talent than us. I haven’t watched enough of the other teams you cited to have an opinion.
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