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Team Captain [492]
TigerPulse: 96%
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The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:24 AM
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I know a lot of people point to Brent’s departure and Wes’s promotion as the main reason for the defensive drop-off, and that’s fair… but I’ve been wondering if part of it actually started when we began resting our key guys during camp.
Think about it — it seemed to start with Barrett Carter, then Woodaz, Woods, Parker, and a few others I can recall off the top of my head. I might be remembering it wrong, but I’ve noticed a trend of our veteran players sitting out a lot in camp so the “younger guys can get more reps.”
I remember Dabo saying something along the lines of, “We know what we’re going to get from him — he’s played a lot of football.” At the time I thought, “Okay, that makes sense,” but part of me also wondered if that might backfire a bit.
It just feels like some of the guys who’ve had that lighter camp load end up losing a little edge each season — maybe a bit of weight gain, less explosiveness, not quite the same sharpness. You could even say the same for a few offensive players, like Blake Miller.
Could we be hurting player development and conditioning by resting our stars too much in the preseason? Or am I just overanalyzing things (maybe it’s the morning Adderall talking 😅)?
Curious what y’all think — is there something to this, or just coincidence?
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110%er [3730]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:29 AM
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I think our practices have become soft. They certainly play like it. That’s also what our last 2 DBs that transferred out said.
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Playmaker [361]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:34 AM
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I believe everyone is overthinking it. We lost two Pro Bowl DT's in Wilkins and Lawrence, first round players like Clelin Ferrell, Andrew Booth, etc..
Who did we replace them with? the coaches didn't forget how to coach. Our recruiting tanked. We didn't replace players with equal or greater talent. Remember the recruiting class that finished second in the nation and had 6 of the best players in their respective states? Does our recruiting look similar now? Are we killing it in the portal?
I would pose this question: how many first rounders do we currently have playing on the defense?
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National Champion [8013]
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heading into the season, there were 3 projected in next year's draft***
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:36 AM
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Orange Phenom [14961]
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^^^this^^^ BV's defense's were falling off before he left.
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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Defense was smoked in last two playoffs under BV!
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Head Coach [943]
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Re: ^^^this^^^ BV's defense's were falling off before he left.
Nov 6, 2025, 8:32 PM
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Defense was smoked in last two playoffs under BV!
Sure was. We had Logan Rudolph as our starting DE. That's just a smaller version of Cade Dehoff. Rudolph had one sack for his entire career as a DE at Clemson. Astounding but true. And that's who we trotted out to face LSU in the Natty. This downhill slide in talent didn't happen overnight.
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Clemson Conqueror [11910]
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Valley Legend [12915]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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According to the preseason AND a draft projection I saw this week - 3. Woods, Parker and Tarrell
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Game Changer [1719]
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zero of the guys are first rounders
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Nov 6, 2025, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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No matter how the media wants to spin it, Woods and Parker won't go first round.
Every Clemson fan has seen what a first rounder looks like. They're disruptive constantly and offenses can't find an answer for them.
We don't have that.
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Top TigerNet [28430]
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Re: zero of the guys are first rounders
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Nov 6, 2025, 2:09 PM
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NFL puts a lot of stock on potential, especially when the measurables fall a certain way, and the talent is considered raw but very coachable. No one looks like a first rounder based on this season but the body of work and the measurables may get them through. The combine will also carry a heavy weight on their draft selection.
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All-TigerNet [5988]
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Re: zero of the guys are first rounders
Nov 6, 2025, 10:40 PM
[ in reply to zero of the guys are first rounders ] |
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No matter how the media wants to spin it, Woods and Parker won't go first round.
Every Clemson fan has seen what a first rounder looks like. They're disruptive constantly and offenses can't find an answer for them.
We don't have that.
Were you saying the same about Bryan Bresee or Myles Murphy? Both went 1st RD despite a lot of vocal posters saying the same.
From what I have gathered reading scouting reports, NFL guys see talent on the defense that's just not playing up to potential.
You can think what you want but likely one or all of them are going 1st RD just like Murphy and Bresee.
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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Supposedly, we have 3 (Parker, Woods, Terrell: according to ESPN), but they aren't playing like it.
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National Champion [7957]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 1:56 PM
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Terrell single handily lost the Duke game. I believe two and he could not contain the Duke receiver. None even close to be as good as his Brother.
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National Champion [7957]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 1:56 PM
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Two bust
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110%er [4022]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 10:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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Well to be fair there is not a Christian Wilkins and a Dexter Lawrence standing on every street corner.
Has anybody signed another Wilkins or Lawrence? I mean they have also dominated at the next level. So if you think you just reload Christian Wilkins and Dexter Lawrence its not gonna happen.
Yet the Defense has looked good at times! Looked really goos at times and horrible at times.
Defense was great on 3rd down against Duke. Horrible on 4th down. ( they actually could not have been any worse on 4th down except for one play and then the Referee took care of that)
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Tiger Spirit [9424]
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In no scenario is our talent so bad we should get blownout by Syracuse at home
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Nov 6, 2025, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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This is a cop-out and doesnt address the real issues.
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Game Changer [2063]
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Re: In no scenario is our talent so bad we should get blownout by Syracuse at home
Nov 6, 2025, 6:16 PM
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It's not a cop out. It's an actual fact. We have a significant lack of talent in several spots. You just don't want to admit it.
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National Champion [7957]
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Re: In no scenario is our talent so bad we should get blownout by Syracuse at home
Nov 6, 2025, 8:18 PM
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Not a lack of talent. It is easy to see this defensive team completely fell apart after the loss to LSU and GT. They have not been able to get up and get their self together yet even though they have tried.
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Valley Legend [13089]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:46 AM
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It's gotten a bit softer and according to former players, they even stated that practices have become soft. This was under Wes Goodwin though and not Tom Allen. Tom Allen has brought intensity back to the practice field. Of course, none of the players lining up right now are Tom Allen's guys and I believe he will review film on recruits and send position coaches out to extend invites and recruit them heavily. We need big, explosive, precise, and violent men on the Front 7. This bend but don't break nonsense is just that. Every time an opponent snaps the ball, the QB should be running for dear life and if the running back has the ball, he should be gang tackled for a loss. PERIOD! No more excuses!!!
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110%er [4022]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 10:06 AM
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I hear ya but I think the rules have changed and I am not certain how often they can practice or how much they are allowed to have contact. I also know on the flip side hard contact every day means more injuries.
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Head Coach [992]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 8:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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Well as I read it our defense against the run is 18th. If that is correct, not bad. Our pass defense was like 66th last year. We lost Mickens and now it is horrid. We need some help in the backend. WE are bad at pass defense. And the safety position is a joke. Barnes is ball hawk but he should never cover anything beyond 10 yards off the scrimmage line. He is horrid in deep coverage.
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Head Coach [943]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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It's gotten a bit softer and according to former players, they even stated that practices have become soft. This was under Wes Goodwin though and not Tom Allen. Tom Allen has brought intensity back to the practice field. Of course, none of the players lining up right now are Tom Allen's guys and I believe he will review film on recruits and send position coaches out to extend invites and recruit them heavily. We need big, explosive, precise, and violent men on the Front 7. This bend but don't break nonsense is just that. Every time an opponent snaps the ball, the QB should be running for dear life and if the running back has the ball, he should be gang tackled for a loss. PERIOD! No more excuses!!!
That sounds great. Problem is our recruiting won't even be in the top 30. Those top 5 and top 10 classes are just a distant memory.
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Paw Warrior [5052]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:57 AM
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I think it’s more the downfall of depth, and that is not unique to Clemson. Even when we had the power rangers our 2 deep was probably good enough to start in a lot of other places, but they were there waiting there turn, getting developed, and spelling the big guys during the game without much drop off.
But now with the portal and loss of the sit out year guys with that level of talent aren’t sticking around as backups, they’re starting somewhere else. That means our starters have to take more reps and the drop off is much bigger when they come off the field. This paired with our myriad of player development weaknesses and slow adaptation to the changing football landscape is what’s gotten us to where we are today
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Valley Legend [12915]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 9:00 AM
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I know I’ve said it 50 times, but I will say it again. Moving from an attacking 4-3-4 defense to a bend and not break 4-2-5 has been the downfall. It costs us this past week on the goal line.
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National Champion [7191]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 10:41 AM
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There's no way we shoud be playinfg a 4-2-5 on the goal line. Maybe on the 5 or so, but not the goal line
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Game Changer [1624]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 2:06 PM
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Tom Allen has been a disappointment say what u want!
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National Champion [7957]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: The downfall of the Defense... ] |
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You are a genius. I have been telling these thick headed folks the same thing. We would have been much better to have kept pork chop and the Venables defense. The players don’t like their new scheme new scheme and the morale among the defense is at an all time low. This was a stupid mistake to have thrown out the Venables scheme just like it was to have brought in the air raid. Dabo’s stupidity has set this program back for no telling how long.
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Campus Hero [13776]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 9:01 AM
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May have a good point. I remember a lot of us being stunned when Barrett Carter said after the Duke game that he wasn't in playing shape ..... or words to that effect.
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Hall of Famer [8864]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 10:13 AM
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Totally agree. I have been to practices. They are a joke. Mostly jogging around half speed in shorts.
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Commissioner [1299]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 10:26 AM
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We can only hope that part of CDS's cryptic getting back to his instincts quote centers on some of this. For a man that played under Gene Stallings, I can't imagine soft practices as being part of his instinctual philosophy.
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Orange Beast [6545]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 10:25 AM
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To me it feels like guys get worse each year instead of improve. Even Carter missed a ton of tackles his Sr year. They all shine when they first get here, then they slowly start disappearing or making constant mistakes.
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Game Changer [2063]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 6:17 PM
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It's because they had better players around the one they first got here. Now they don't have anybody to clean up their mistakes and they're getting exposed.
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Orange Elite [5520]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 11:01 AM
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Nah, when we let Reggie go! Blitz them all night, blitz them all day, blitz, blitz, blitz it's the only way! It was exciting but could be disastrous!
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Recruit [62]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 1:50 PM
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I think the first root of the decline of our defense was the loss of DL coaches Brooks & Hobby following the national championship win in 2016-2017 season, though it did not effect the play of the defensive line for the 2017 and 2018 seasons since the Power Rangers were pretty much all Brooks & Hobby's players, and we actually had the best defensive play those seasons during our run.
A concern by many on here was future player development by the DL coaches that replaced Brooks & Hobby.
Once the Power Rangers departed, from 2019 on, I began to notice a decrease in pass-rush on the line, but the secondary had still been a strength up through 2021.
Even after Venables left and Goodwin replaced him, the defenses in 2022 and 2023 were still overall fairly good, though not at the elite level it was before. In Goodwin's first two years, he still had many of Venables' recruits.
The biggest noticeable dip of the defense post-Venables, as far as onfield play, came last season when most of Venables' players had left, and Goodwin was then playing with mostly his own recruits.
As far as the practice/camp methods you mention, I'm not sure how long they have been in place, but I'm pretty sure it goes back to 2018 at the latest (as Kendrick had mentioned about it, and he enrolled at Clemson in Jan 2018).
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Commissioner [1277]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
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Nov 6, 2025, 2:09 PM
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D line has dropped in intensity since doughboy took over, linebackers are too white and too slow and can't tackle (except Sammy) and the secondary has ALWAYS given us ### moments, but it seems like we can't play man to man without penalties and that's coaching.
At the end of the day, I think strength & conditioning has fallen way off too
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National Champion [7191]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 6:13 PM
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Being white has nothing to do with the problem.... too slow, yes indeed.
I think our CBs have been coached for years to jersey-tug, face-cover, sideline bump and arm hook for the last 5 years or more. Refs are wiseing up and watching more closely - probably at the behest of opposing coaches.
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Game Changer [2063]
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National Champion [7957]
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Re: The downfall of the Defense...
Nov 6, 2025, 8:16 PM
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Players don’t like Allen’s D scheme as they loved the aggressive style of Venables. After losing to LSU and GT this defense fell apart. This falling apart is still causing us to lose games. AKA Duke
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Replies: 37
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