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Replies: 28
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Head Coach [903]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
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Oct 11, 2024, 8:33 AM
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The meeting of the mafia bosses yesterday makes it clear they are going to demand more in 2026. The spineless and nearsighted ACC will give in. It is not clear what the Big 12 will do, but if left alone it probably will too.
Or, the Big 12 and the ACC can join forces and tell the B1G and SEC no for a change. And if that causes the B1G and SEC to leave, so be it, but it won't be football only. They will have to leave the NCAA in all sports. They can have their own mythical championship. But the true NCAA champion will come from a new entity composed of the remaining schools. No doubt they will make/take the majority of the football money, but the new entity will be the premier basketball league, the equivalent in baseball and the best in most Olympic sports and soccer. It can enter contracts with Fox. NBC, CW and whatever else is out there. There can be unequal revenue sharing in football and basketball. There are tons of details I could never dream of, but it can be done and Clemson (assuming it cannot find its way into the B1G or SEC - which I am not sure I want anyway) will do just fine. We'll call it the Coast 2 Coast League.
And when all the dust settles, the new entity should try to pick off schools like Kentucky, South Carolina, Purdue, UConn, Rutgers, Iowa and others that want to play at a higher level once they get sick of being dominated in football and told what to do by Michigan. OSU, Bama, Texas and others.
If the ACC and Big 12 are not already working on this, they are fools. They need to have a plan ready to go when the time comes to tell the B1G and SEC to get lost.
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Top TigerNet [29826]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Uh, whatever happens, it will not be...
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Oct 11, 2024, 8:40 AM
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.... some group parting from the P2. It will be the P2 parting from them.
The P2 will make the decision. The P2 will decide who can climb aboard and who can't as they toss anchor and sail away.
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Head Coach [903]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Uh, whatever happens, it will not be...
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Oct 11, 2024, 9:48 AM
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First of all Bret, glad you are doing well. I read way more than I post, and always enjoy yours.
That is my point. Let them leave, either on their own or by invitation from 300 other schools that are sick of them. Don't care.
The drawbacks are 1) they will have most of the biggest names in college football, and 2) they will get most of the media money because of #1. But, they already have most of the media money and they now have most of the CFP money because the ACC and Big 12 kowtowed to them in the spring. And they are going to demand more in 2026. So, what difference does it make if they split? They are going to get what they want either way, but the ACC, Big 12 and ND don't have to become the 2026 version of the old D2 in the process. Heck, they are already being called the P2. Why make it worse?
There is plenty for the Big 12, ACC and the rest to sell to become a strong, viable entity that is not under the thumb of the P2. Sure, they have most of the biggest names in college football, but an alternate league would also have marquee names in the sport too, including FSU, Clemson, Miami, ND. Plus it would have plenty of other big names like UNC, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, VT, NCSU, etc. And there would be plenty of up and coming programs like SMU, UCF, Pitt, GT, Oklahoma State, KSU, etc. That's a lot of really good football for NBC, Fox and other media companies to like. And if there is an unequal revenue sharing agreement in place, the chance for the marquee names, or any team that rises to that level, to do just fine financially.
Plus, the C2C would be the premier basketball conference, and it would not be close. UNC, Duke, Kansas, Baylor, Arizona, ND (in name only, but still an elite name) Houston and UConn vs. only Kentucky, Michigan State and Purdue, historically speaking. And for every one Alabama, Tennessee or Michigan that rises toward the top for a while, there will be 3 Memphis, Cincinnati, WVU, Virginia, Louisville, KSU, etc to match it. A basketball league would be so strong it could probably command its own big, fat contract.
I just think that while football money would still be the biggest source of revenue for the foreseeable future, and the B1G and SEC would have the majority of that, it would get much closer to even down the road. I think the C2C would weather the storm and hold its own in the meantime and eventually this would be sort of like the AFL and the NFL, and it would all merge back together on a much more even footing down the road.
What I am 100% confident in is that if the ACC, Big 12 and AAC plus ND, and to a lesser extent the new PAC 12 don't start joining forces and pushing back, they are going to get run over in 2 years. Bullies like Sankey and Petito don't know how to play with others in the sandbox. Remember "The Alliance"? Their goal is to take all the toys for the benefit of their 34 teams. There is no plan to better college football, only themselves. If these leagues don't start joining forces, they will become permanent D2. Just ask OSU and WSU.
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CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Uh, whatever happens, it will not be...
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Oct 11, 2024, 2:06 PM
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The Big 12 and ACC would not be viable if they are not playing for the same championship as the SEC and Big Ten. There would not be enough interest. The programs in the leftover division would lose a lot of fans.
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Solid Orange [1337]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: Uh, whatever happens, it will not be...
Oct 11, 2024, 8:17 PM
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You are correct, SEC puts 100k fans in the stadium...UNC, Duke, WF has to work to get 25k! When Duke can put 60k in the stadium the ACC might have a chance!
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Valley Legend [13066]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Uh, whatever happens, it will not be...
Oct 11, 2024, 8:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Uh, whatever happens, it will not be... ] |
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Screw the BIG and SEC. The best Teams had not played really many top matches as they have been playing cupcakes. We are wk 6 and they are just starting to play decent matchups but really there are only once again 2-3 good teams in each conference yet they want 4-5 in the playoffs. Whst is it, 1 undefeated team in SEC and 2 in BIG? They are no better overall than the other top teams in Power Conferences.
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All-In [10774]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
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Oct 11, 2024, 8:45 AM
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Orange Phenom [14559]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2001
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The SEC and B1G are going to "ask" for even more concessions from the ACC and
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Oct 11, 2024, 9:01 AM
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Big 12 when it comes to the CFP. It's just a matter of time and will probably be soon. The ACC and Big 12 cannot keep being bullied/extorted by Snakey and Petiti. They are going to need to say enough before long here and just roll the dice.
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Paw Master [16608]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 17987
Joined: 1999
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It would be wise to consider the best alternative to kowtowing to the SEC/B1G.
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Oct 11, 2024, 9:29 AM
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That's just basic negotiating tactics. BATNA. If you can't envision an existence without those conferences, you'll ultimately give in to way too much.
But, just personally, I think you take it in the wrong direction. The mindset shouldn't be "How can we separate from the SEC/B1G and still beat them in revenue?" It should be "If we stopped playing this 'optimal revenue generation' game, how could we structure our collegiate athletics to align with the intended vision of the members, as institutions of higher learning?" I'm not against the schools making a buck, but the narrative of college athletics has become "optimizing revenue generation." The organization or school that makes the most money is considered the "winner". This is wrong-headed, and is driving some terrible decisions, in my opinion.
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Paw Master [16608]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 17987
Joined: 1999
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Expanding on that...as long as "revenue optimization" is the end game,
Oct 11, 2024, 9:32 AM
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"student-athletes" are a means to an end. It is clearly what they have become for the overwhelming majority of institutions. Is this healthy? Does it ultimately support the development of those "student-athletes"? Does it ultimately support the mission of the institution? I would argue no to all of those questions. So don't do it.
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Top TigerNet [29826]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Beating my dead horse, again.
Oct 11, 2024, 3:36 PM
[ in reply to It would be wise to consider the best alternative to kowtowing to the SEC/B1G. ] |
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******
how could we structure our collegiate athletics to align with the intended vision of the members, as institutions of higher learning?"
*******
The intended vision of the members has been for at least 60 years to make their institutions the minor league for the NFL and NBA. Every action they have taken in those years has had the effect of decreasing the importance of "higher education" and, in fact, looking for ways to circumvent the need for "higher education" completely.
They may claim otherwise. But tell my one regulation that has been implemented in the past 60 years that has raised the requirements for "higher education."
We are where we are today precisely because the institutions eagerly set up the rules to put us here.
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Paw Warrior [4755]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Beating my dead horse, again.
Oct 11, 2024, 8:08 PM
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Bret,
I don't disagree that the scale has been tipping towards athletics over academics for the last 60 years. However, I think a number of forces outside of the institutions themselves have been the driving force behind that. The institutions may have resisted, but these other forces were far more powerful.
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Dynasty Maker [3579]
TigerPulse: 100%
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That prophecy was almost too well put together...
Oct 11, 2024, 1:50 PM
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Is this Jim Phillips?
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Head Coach [903]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together...
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Oct 11, 2024, 2:05 PM
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Nah. I'm the guy that recommended that the ACC and Big 12 merge back before Texas and Oklahoma decided to leave. Would have instantly surrounded and hemmed in the SEC and would have had the strongest league in all sports. ACC was not forward-thinking enough back then to do it. It thought the SEC would remain content and do what was right for all of college football.
This is now the only option left, except for capitulation
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CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together...
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Oct 11, 2024, 2:08 PM
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That would not have worked. Texas and Oklahoma would have left anyway.
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Head Coach [903]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together...
Oct 11, 2024, 2:37 PM
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You never know. It was worth a shot. A combined league would have generated a lot more money than 2 separate leagues and blunted the obvious rising threat of the SEC.
Regardless, ACC and Big 12 were asleep at the wheel and the SEC and B1G took advantage of it.
They still have a chance to fight back, but only if done together. Separately they are not a threat to do anything other than whatever the SEC and B1G want.
This is now a fight for relevance, if not survival as a big time player. They cannot afford to sit back and let the SEC and B1G dictate the terms of the future of CFB.
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CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together...
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Oct 11, 2024, 6:14 PM
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I would not have made more money.
The Big 12 and ACC were not asleep atcyhe wheel. They simply didn't th3 same capabilities as the SEC and Big Ten.
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Head Coach [903]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together...
Oct 11, 2024, 6:59 PM
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You/we have no way of knowing that at this point. But do you really think a league that included Texas, OU, Clemson, FSU, Miami in football, and UNC, Duke, Kansas, UVa, Baylor and Texas in basketball would not have been the equal of the SEC, if not superior to it could not have commanded the same amount of money? I'd say you are wrong.
But that is water under the bridge at this point. So your solution is to do what? Nothing and get trampled and relegated tp permanent lower tier status? Or push back? Geez what a pathetic choice option 1 is.
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CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together...
Oct 12, 2024, 8:05 AM
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I 100% have a way of knowing. Florida St, Miami, and Clemson aren't bringing in big money for the acc now. Florida St. and Miami have fallen way off from where they were 20 years ago. Miami in particular has too small of a fan base and is too much of a t-shirt school. Basketball is a non-factor.
If you combine the ACC and Big 12, the pie would have to be split way too many ways for each school to approach what the SEC and Big Ten are making.
There is no solution.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Not necessarily.
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Oct 11, 2024, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together... ] |
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A merger of the ACC, Big 12, and a couple of the lore viable P5 conferences into a super conference would potentially be a viable option. Think AAC, PAC 12)2/6/whoever, and cherry pick a couple of the best Conference USA teams.
Then have the new Super Conference refuse to schedule any SEC or BIG 12 team ever, anywhere, for any reason.
"When in doubt, attack".
General George S. Patton
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Game Changer [1925]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I Dont Hate This Idea
Oct 12, 2024, 10:36 AM
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Maybe because I think CFB has already gone so far off the rails that there’s really no saving it, at least in the form that I have loved for decades. In that context, a scorched earth, maximum chaos scenario has some appeal.
I do wonder if, in the long term, the same viewership would keep tuning in to watch the Sankey and Petitto conferences (yes, they’d go that far) play with themselves to produce one of the same 2 or 3 champions every year.
Remember the AFL?
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Paw Warrior [4755]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together...
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Oct 11, 2024, 8:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: That prophecy was almost too well put together... ] |
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7781
I thought that a combining of the Pac 10 (before USC and UCLA left) and the ACC would have been the powerhouse that could have dominated the TV market from noon to midnight every Saturday.
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Paw Warrior [4795]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
Oct 11, 2024, 3:41 PM
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The big 12 can save itself, the ACC is a sinking ship that wants to hang it's hat on basketball and academics(nothing wrong with academics). Big 12 can swoop up Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, and one of the north Carolina teams that would be a massive footprint. Would also be awesome if they could get ND to join the Big 12 as well
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CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
Oct 12, 2024, 8:06 AM
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The Big 12 can't swoop up those schools.
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Asst Coach [891]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
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Oct 11, 2024, 3:55 PM
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And what you will be left with is the “ncaa” meaningless championship. While the better talent and teams are playing in this new league. What you want to do is dilute the league, I’m totally against that. If we are not playing with the big boys then just drop it all together. I’m
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Paw Master [16363]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
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Oct 11, 2024, 4:50 PM
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Yaknow, All the options look OK to me.
Money never made SC, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Miss State, Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, TAMU and most of the teams in the BigTen worth a ####. Who wants to be Auburn with a Lake or Ohio State's nemesis? Notre Dame ain't won a #### thing in 35years, we own the Irish and they are like the Catholic BYU, one title since I was young. If Clemson ends up staying in the ACC, joining the SEC or Big10 or ending up in some Big12/ACC merger, we will remain a power player in college football.
F' everybody on the sidelines playing like that crazy West Virginia guy from a decade ago.
Go Tigers!! Win the games and let the talkers talk their BS.
Message was edited by: Harley®
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CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
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Oct 11, 2024, 6:17 PM
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We won't remain a power player in college football if the SEC and Big Ten break away.
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Hall of Famer [8512]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
Oct 11, 2024, 6:18 PM
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Nope. Clemson, FSU, Miami, and maybe UNC will be part of the P2 at some point. Sooner rather than later I hope, but it will probably take a while.
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Campus Hero [13972]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Time Is Coming To Split With SEC/B1G
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Oct 11, 2024, 8:28 PM
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ACC and Pac 12 should have merged.
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