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Orange Blooded [2669]
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So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 7:30 AM
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After he arrived at the capital to lead a mob to murder politicians and take over the government violently and forcefully?
Has the committee uncovered any of those plans yet? I wouldn't imagine that trump had all this coordination and plans with his cronies only to not have a plan once the government was violently taken over.
I will once again ask for you all to provide any evidence that would hold up in court, that Trump planned to violently take over the government. This will be the third time I asked, but the resident dimbasses still haven't given an answer. They run scared anytime you ask for proof of their accusations. I am not looking for 3rd hand hearsay witnesses that would be laughed out of court, or a picture of roger stone with proud boys.
Again, Donald Trump handled his election loss about as poorly as he could. I could care less what happens to trump and hope something comes out of this committee that makes it so he won't run again for president.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 7:36 AM
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I will be monitoring this thread throughout the day for an answer. But, we know there will be none.
The dems are interested in the truth about J6 as much as they are interested in
- Hunter Biden's criminal acts that directly put Biden into a COI
- Why so many of them fell for the Russian collusion hoax
- Why Biden can brag about holding $1B back from Ukraine with no questions asked
- How many US secrets Russia and China have thanks to HRC's illegal DIY email server
- Counting the illegals crossing the border
- Discussing gun deaths in Chicago
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 9:01 AM
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Do you know how "seditious conspiracy" charges work and what the primary hurdle for proving seditious conspiracy is?
Do you not realize the DOJ has already cleared that hurdle by securing three guilty pleas from various Oath Keepers, including the guy who was driving Roger Stone around?
The best way to beat "seditious conspiracy" charges is to force the Gubmint to clear a very high bar that establishes said conspiracy was actually seditious - i.e., an actual uprising. The defendants have already lost that battle. You can quote as much Fox News infotainer BS as you want and keep calling it a peaceful Capitol tour...but legally that argument went in the toilet awhile back. The Gubmint has already cleared their biggest hurdle with those guilty pleas; they've demonstrably proven the seditious conspiracy existed. Now every Oath Keeper and Proud Boy they convict just gets added to the pile. All the prosecution now has to do is prove that any of those Oath Keepers or Proud Boys knew about said conspiracy and did something to advance it, and it's another guilty verdict.
That's all they have to prove with Roger Stone and Michael Flynn or Rudy Giuliani. And any of those guys are one step from Trump's doorstep.
And guess what: they get any of those guys, all the prosecutors then have to do is find something that showed Trump knew, and that Trump participated in some way.
You are correct. The Committee clearly did not have that proof yet or they would have said so. But here's an intriguing avenue of investigation I'm sure the DOJ is pursuing as we speak, if they haven't already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36iTr2hahhA
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All-TigerNet [13145]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 9:06 AM
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LOL @
"At Tuesday's Jan. 6 committee hearing, Rep. Liz Cheney displayed a handwritten note which Hutchinson testified she wrote after Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows handed her a note card and pen to take his dictation.
Sources familiar with the matter said that Herschmann had previously told the committee that he had penned the note.
"All sources with direct knowledge and law enforcement have and will confirm that it was written by Mr. Herschmann," the spokesperson said."
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what were trump's plans.... ] |
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Ok. Thanks for finally seeing the light...
There is 0 proof as of now hat shows Donald trump wanted to violently overthrow the government and murder and hang people in congress.
Thanks.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 9:53 AM
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Wow, have you ever thought to yourself that if violence was not what Trump wanted then why would he not lift a finger for almost 3 hours to condemn and at least try to stop it?? And then when he did finally speak out that he would profess his "love" for the people who committed it on his behalf? So, we know that he had no problem with the violence. I don't think this addresses the plans he had for afterwards but it at least indicates that he is a total POS that misled his followers. So, I think you are being purposefully obtuse or downright delusional and as Cheney said last night, "If we abandon the truth, we can't survive as a country". I would modify it by saying If a sizable portion of the US population refuse to see the truth, we can't survive as a country.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 11:42 AM
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Read your post. It's all OPINION.
You are asserting what someone might be thinking based on what they might be seeing or understanding at the moment.
And interpreting a comment to mean something it didn't say.
RIDICULOUS.
And, Quo, if the Proud Boys or whomever did seditious conspiracy, then try them and convict them. That has nothing to do with Trump.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 12:05 PM
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This is where you're potentially very wrong.
What lawyers are saying - and spooneye can confirm this, I'd love for him to chime in here - is that seditious conspiracy is basically a legal pile and it's sort of both a prosecutor's dream and and prosecutor's nightmare.
It's a nightmare in the fact that the bar for proving a conspiracy is seditious is very high and the government often fails to clear it. The government lost their last case - the Hutaree militia, because they indeed failed to clear that bar.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/01/1076349762/oath-keepers-charged-capitol-riot-seditious-conspiracy
But here's the problem for the 1/6 defendants: the government has now cleared that bar. That battle's already won. They already have three guilty pleas. Those genies do not go back in the bottle. The seditious conspiracy is now established, legally.
Now it's a prosecutor's dream...because the the conspiracy is now a legal pile, and anybody who touched the pile and advanced it in some manner is guilty of everything in it. It'll roll up anybody demonstrably proven to have helped it.
The Oath Keepers and Proud Boys who have been charged - 20+ of them at last count - are in very dire trouble. Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, and Rudy Giuliani are likely in very dire trouble, as are any of the Willard Hotel gang that could get dragged into this. Mark Meadows got chucked headfirst into the pile by his own aide Cassidy Hutchinson thanks to her testimony, and it seems extremely likely others in that White House have confirmed her account.
If Trump can be proven to have touched the pile - and here's where Mark Meadows or Roger Stone or Rudy could burn him, bigly, if they held onto proof Trump was involved as insurance (which seems likely unless these guys were total idiots), he could very easily wind up in the pile himself.
Spooneye can confirm or contest this, but lots of legal experts are watching the way these seditious conspiracy charges are going and saying: "Ruh-roh. This is, uhm, getting very surprisingly real here, very fast."
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All-In [34113]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 2:12 PM
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All very well said. I can't confirm the criminal law elements because it's not an area of expertise for me.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: So what were trump's plans....
Jul 22, 2022, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: So what were trump's plans.... ] |
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Well, it is my OPINION that we can put you in the "downright delusional" category then. No shocker there for me. But, let's circle back to your OPINION that my post was "all OPINION".
1). I said "if violence was not what Trump wanted then why would he not lift a finger for almost 3 hours to condemn and at least try to stop it". This delay was CLEARLY shown last night by the TESTIMONY of MULTIPLE Whitehouse staff and Trump's own Pub team members that spent that 3 hours with him begging him to do something. NOT my opinion!
2) I said "when he did finally speak out he professed his "love" for the people who committed it". This is Trump's statement out of his OWN MOUTH on the 1/6 VIDEO at 4:17pm ... "I LOVE YOU". NOT my opinion!
3) "he had no problem with the violence". Yep, MY OPINION, but based on the above and the insertion of a modicum of COMMON SENSE.
4) "it at least indicates that he is a total POS that misled his followers". MY OPINION on first part because anyone that incites political violence is a POS. Misled part has been proven in earlier hearings and TESTIMONY of his own team.
OK, the rest are mine and Liz's opinions. DEAL! I have to read and blow off your OPINIONS ALL THE TIME, most without responding and only TD'ing your idiotic posts on racial matters.
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All-In [34113]
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It sounds like you haven't watched the hearings.
Jul 22, 2022, 9:12 AM
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Trump's plan, which started before he even lost the election, was to make sure he could retain power even if he lost. Before the election even happened, he said that if he lost, it's because of fraud. Patently false statement, but he was convincing his followers.
By the time January 6 came around, he had filed and lost about 60 lawsuits in swing states based on fabricated conspiracy theories, pressured the governments of those same states to overturn the will of their people and send a slate of fake electors to Washington, and pressured his own Justice Department to announce that the election was corrupt.
When he found that there were too many decent, honest American patriots working for him, he had one last chance on January 6, when the election was to be certified. His last chance was to have Mike Pence and/or Congress violate the law. But to do that, he had to pressure them. So he called forth a mob, he riled them up with lies, and he sent them to the Capitol.
Had Mike Pence disrespected the law the way Trump did, the plan might have worked, which would have led to a constitutional crisis and potentially the overriding of the will of the American people.
The evidence of the above facts have been set forth by the committee at length.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It sounds like you haven't watched the hearings.
Jul 22, 2022, 9:31 AM
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Wait, Donald trump and his team filed lwsuits to try and prove their stolen election claims? Sounds very legal to me.
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All-TigerNet [13145]
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Re: It sounds like you haven't watched the hearings.
Jul 22, 2022, 9:38 AM
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POTD
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All-In [34113]
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110%er [5694]
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Sanctioned
Jul 22, 2022, 11:43 AM
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What is that?
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All-In [34113]
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Fined $175,000***
Jul 22, 2022, 12:02 PM
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All-In [34113]
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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110%er [5694]
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Re: It sounds like you haven't watched the hearings.
Jul 22, 2022, 11:44 AM
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hang on birmy...let's get the story straight.
A sanction is not a felony conviction and it's not on Trump.
Try again.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: It sounds like you haven't watched the hearings.
Jul 22, 2022, 11:52 AM
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The question in the OP was what were Trumps plans. That has been answered. You're now babbling. LOL.
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All-TigerNet [10899]
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Trump's plan was for Pence to use the constitutional
Jul 22, 2022, 2:22 PM
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practice of investigating a suspected fraudulent vote during the 10 day window granted for doing such things before certifying the election. That's it.
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All-TigerNet [13145]
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Re: Trump's plan was for Pence to use the constitutional
Jul 22, 2022, 2:28 PM
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Charleston Tom will be receiving his IRS audit notification in 3..2..1.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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He couldn't prove fraud in a year and a half; what was 10
Jul 22, 2022, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to Trump's plan was for Pence to use the constitutional ] |
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days supposed to prove?
Besides..the "electoral count act" that somebody told Trump he could use, is not in control by the President of the Senate (Pence) alone.
The Electoral Count Act does allow for an objection to a state’s vote in writing if it is signed by a member of the House and a member of the Senate. If there is such a request, then the House and Senate meet in separate sessions to consider it. The objection is only sustained if both chambers agree to it by a simple majority vote. Otherwise, the original electoral votes are counted.
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All-In [44054]
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Have you ever watched any of the crime shows?
Jul 22, 2022, 3:13 PM
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I’m talking about something like Dateline NBC or most anything on ID. There are many cases where someone is murdered and the surviving spouse is under investigation. Evidence shows that the couple was having marital problems, and the defendant said or did things prior to the spouse’s murder indicating that they wanted them dead. In addition, significant evidence ties the spouse to the crime, either direct DNA evidence or evidence that they paid a hit man.
No murder weapon is ever found, but circumstantial evidence is overwhelming enough to convict the spouse of murder.
I view this January 6th situation in a similar way at this point. No, we don’t have proof that Trump directly told people to go to the Capitol and be violent. But we do have proof that he claimed election fraud before the election, as well as after it despite no evidence to support it, as well as plenty of evidence that it was a fair election. We also have proof that he held a rally on 1/6 where he lied more (including about elected officials) and urged people to go to the Capitol to protest. What’s worse, once the violence started he did nothing for several hours to stop it.
All of these things build a case that he is liable for seditious conspiracy, attempting to overturn an election, or both. Just because there isn’t direct evidence that he told people to go to the Capitol and harm politicians does not mean that he can’t ultimately be convicted of wrongdoing.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Have you ever watched any of the crime shows?
Jul 22, 2022, 3:23 PM
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They don't have him for seditious conspiracy yet. That's the big one, has a 20-year sentence. There's no direct line between him and the Oath Keepers, or proof yet he knew what they were up to.
They do apparently have him for obstruction of congress and defrauding the government in an election, which are big, and he's probably crossed the line in witness tampering as well. The legal eagles apparently also say they could also get him for, oddly, mail fraud, owing to some peculiarity of the laws related to that elector scheme.
It'd be bizarre if "mail fraud" ends up being what does Trump in. I could also care less, as long as he can't run again. At this point I'm fine with whatever. Get him for a felonious moving violation, if there is such a thing.
The second he's no longer a viable candidate, his power dissolves like a soap bubble, and it'll be like Animal Planet. His creditors will swoop in, his image of renegade untouchability vanishes, and his enemies will eat him alive.
Put that first felony ding into him, however. Nature - or at least human nature - will do the rest.
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All-In [44054]
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To clarify, I wasn’t saying that they have him for seditious conspiracy
Jul 22, 2022, 3:34 PM
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although I won’t be surprised if they untimely will, based on new evidence that is uncovered.
My point is that proving Trump’s involvement in 1/6 isn’t reliant on finding the smoking gun with his fingerprints on it.
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