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Replies: 93
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All-In [44293]
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Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 12:41 PM
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But it is worth pointing out that it is more than we spend in an entire year on our men's basketball program.
I'm trying to find info on NCAA Tournament teams that pay their head football coach more than they spend on their entire men's basketball program.
Thus far, the only one I've found is Alabama. They spend about $10 million a year on men's basketball and pay Saban $10.6 million a year.
For reference, we spend about $8 million a year on men's basketball and pay Dabo $10.5 million a year.
Our differential of ~$2.5 million (head football coach expense minus men's basketball program expenditures) is surely one of the largest in college athletics, if not the most.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 12:44 PM
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So you are saying that there is another 8 million being spent on something that isn't Dabo.... ok, which congressman do I need to call to fix the fiduciary mistake
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 12:44 PM
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As I always tell my wife in regards to grocery store purchases.
If we are going to pay big money for the name brand, then we should expect it to be worth it.
If we know that paying more money won't get us any better of a return then we might as well stick to the bargain brand and be smart with our money.
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All-In [44293]
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Okay.***
Sep 8, 2022, 1:57 PM
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Now cross reference that with Football vs Basketball profits***
Sep 8, 2022, 12:48 PM
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Also, knew a post like this was coming. I'm happy for Dabo, but (insert some kind of backhanded comment to try to make your precious look better)
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Oculus Spirit [82284]
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A visual aid of JK discussing Clemson football........
Sep 8, 2022, 12:57 PM
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110%er [6825]
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Re: A visual aid of JK discussing Clemson football........
Sep 8, 2022, 1:05 PM
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When did they install a spinning door... but I guess it makes it easier for the fired coach, incoming transfers, and the illegible players
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Heisman Winner [141346]
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I just woke up from a nap and we’re talking basketball?
Sep 8, 2022, 12:50 PM
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Is it February already?
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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I'm trying to understand why we're talking about basketball
Sep 8, 2022, 12:51 PM
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on the football bored.
I also thought it was a no-no to combine the two topics?
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All-In [44293]
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Oculus Spirit [97185]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 12:51 PM
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Heisman Winner [141346]
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If I were an AD, and I saw where Clemson and Alabama spent…
Sep 8, 2022, 12:52 PM
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more on on their head football coach than on their entire basketball program, I’d immediately do the same.
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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Somebody knows math
Sep 8, 2022, 12:59 PM
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You are one of the best Francis
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All-In [44293]
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Unfortunately, the equation involves more than just football
Sep 8, 2022, 1:59 PM
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or SHOULD, anyway.
This is assuming that you want to be good at basketball. If you don't, then the math works out perfectly.
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Freshman [-79]
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Wrong yet again.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:29 PM
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We don't need to spend another dime on basketball in order to ensure a solid basketball program. We spend more than enough for that already. There's just one missing link..
You just keep spittin' the nonsense, Mrs. Brownell.
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Legend [19816]
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110%er [8009]
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All-In [44293]
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Heisman Winner [141346]
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I will be a more successful AD than you...
Sep 8, 2022, 2:12 PM
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but at least you will be able to tell other people "Hey, I know that guy." at my AD Hall Of Fame induction banquet.
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All-In [44293]
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Sorry, I already have plans for that night.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:15 PM
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Congratulations on your award, though!
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Heisman Winner [141346]
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Cleaning out your office is not "other plans".***
Sep 8, 2022, 2:17 PM
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Freshman [-79]
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Great find! You reckon Mrs. Brownell will be able to comment?
Sep 8, 2022, 2:31 PM
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We know the answer...
Crickets.
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Legend [19816]
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Absolutely, my post isn't geared towards you. It's pointed
Sep 8, 2022, 2:55 PM
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towards JK with their incessant negativity about Clemson spending and Fan Support of the basketball program.
We were all pretty excited and CBB was definitely getting the support as you mentioned. At that time JK agreed with you, but now that things haven't gone Brownells way, he's back to pounding the drum for negligence against the basketball program by the fans and university.
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Legend [19816]
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Gotcha, or, gotme
Sep 8, 2022, 5:23 PM
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?
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CU Medallion [51592]
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Calling all TD warriors. Do the lords work.
Sep 8, 2022, 12:53 PM
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Orange Blooded [3691]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 12:53 PM
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You pay for results. How much have we wasted on BB? The NIT which was too far of a stretch shouldn’t be the goal. It’s football season, be happy we have a great coach and will have in the future.
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All-In [44293]
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No, you don't pay for results.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:00 PM
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You get what you pay for.
You have it backwards.
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Oculus Spirit [82284]
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Wait,
Sep 8, 2022, 2:18 PM
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are you implying that Brad is halfassing as a coach because he feels that he is being underpaid?
Because that would make more sense than anything else you've said.
#sandbagging
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All-In [44293]
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I haven't mentioned Brad's salary once in this thread.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:26 PM
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Please try again.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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I see someone has a hard time with logic when it doesn't
Sep 8, 2022, 2:27 PM
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fit their agenda...
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Oculus Spirit [82284]
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"get what you pay for"
Sep 8, 2022, 8:40 PM
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.
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Freshman [-79]
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The 38th biggest basketball salary in America, yet
Sep 8, 2022, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to No, you don't pay for results. ] |
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we've finished in the tip 40 exactly twice in 12 years. Sorry, Mrs. B., YOU have it backwards.
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Legend [16529]
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Dabo and BrownL made roughly the same $900k salary
Sep 8, 2022, 3:43 PM
[ in reply to No, you don't pay for results. ] |
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their first full year on the job. One parlayed that into the greatest athletics run in Clemson history and is now the top-paid coach in the game, the other parlayed his into the end of a historic run of post-season appearances, dwindling fan support, and is the worst coach in his sport here in the last 40 years not named Larry Shyatt.
#DoTheMaths #YouDontAlwaysGetWhatYouPayFor #BassAckwards
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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There is a reason. You are a smart guy. Figure it out
Sep 8, 2022, 12:58 PM
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no cheating either
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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I had a hard time giving this a TU based on your predication
Sep 8, 2022, 1:06 PM
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that JK is a smart guy. How dare you assume their gender 
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All-In [44293]
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Freshman [-79]
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People are not "anti-Brownell", Mrs. B.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:36 PM
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We're anti mediocre and going nowhere after 12 seasons.
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Legend [15764]
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“‘Applies to both’ for $400, please.” “Boring and Predictable”
Sep 8, 2022, 12:59 PM
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Swarley:
“What are ‘JK’s post’ and ‘Brownell’s coaching’?”
That’s right, pick again…
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All-In [44293]
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Clemson's pathetic support for basketball precedes Brownell
Sep 8, 2022, 2:13 PM
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by generations.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Speaking of history....
Sep 8, 2022, 2:26 PM
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Brad has yet to make B2B NCAAT appearances....
Both Barnes and Purnell went to 3 straight. Heck even Cliff Ellis went B2B and 3 out of 4.
Barnes did it in 4 seasons, OP in 7, and here we are headed into year 13 with Brad.
Clemson winning %'s and NCAAT appearances below:
Brad Brownell(2011-present) - 56.8% (3 NCAAT)
Oliver Purnell(2004-2010) - 61.1% (3 NCAAT in a row)
Larry Shyatt(1999-2003) - 45.5% (0 NCAAT)
Rick Barnes(1995-1998) - 60.7% (3 NCAAT in a row)
Cliff Ellis(1984-1994) - 58.1% (3 NCAAT in 4 years)
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: Speaking of history....
Sep 8, 2022, 4:24 PM
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I might also add if Brownell was good a "basketball" school would've hired him away by now and given him the financial support Coach Keller claims he needs.
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Heisman Winner [141346]
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110%er [6237]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 12:59 PM
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Legend [16529]
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Until we have the right leadership in place for
Sep 8, 2022, 1:05 PM
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basketball we're only wasting time and money there. It's a shame to see all that great national branding that Dabo has brought to Clemson squandered in hoops this past decade. Definitely not getting the ROI out of that end that we should be.
Go Tigers.
#FreeClemsonHoops
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CU Medallion [51592]
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stopped at "but"***
Sep 8, 2022, 1:05 PM
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All-In [44293]
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Re: stopped at "drummer"***
Sep 8, 2022, 1:56 PM
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CU Medallion [51592]
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So you read my whole name?***
Sep 8, 2022, 7:12 PM
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Legend [15991]
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Also more than baseball, softball, lacrosse, gymnastics, etc
Sep 8, 2022, 1:05 PM
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and well deserved. Is your point that we're paying Dabo too much or that we should pour more $ into basketball?
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All-In [44293]
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The title of my original post should be clear to you.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:25 PM
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I said, "Dabo's new contract is great and I'm glad we did it."
So no, I don't think we are paying Dabo too much. But we are paying him a lot, especially as it relates to what we spend on our basketball program.
I find it interesting that almost no schools pay their football head coach more than they spend on their entire men's basketball program.
I believe that we need to spend more on basketball. Consistently successful college basketball programs spend a lot more than we do.
Some people here are fine with that, but I'm not.
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Legend [15991]
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Somewhat agree...but most schools don't have Dabo...He's
Sep 9, 2022, 1:46 PM
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more than just the FB coach. He's perhaps the University's best ambassador.
Although not a huge BB fan I have supported Brad his whole tenure. Still support him but I do think it is now past time for a change. Couple the change with pouring a little more money into BB and I'd be fine with it.
Comparing FB w/ BB at Clemson is an apples to oranges comparison; neither has anything to do with the other.
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110%er [5598]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 1:07 PM
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?
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All-In [36467]
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We Spend 80% of Bama...We Should Atleast Perform 80% as Well
Sep 8, 2022, 1:14 PM
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as Bama before we go beggin for more $$
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All-In [44293]
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You might want to do some research
Sep 8, 2022, 2:35 PM
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before posting next time.
Let's use the last three years, since that is how long Nate Oates has been at Alabama. During that time, they are 61-36, a .629 winning percentage. We are 49-39, a .557 winning percentage.
Our performance is actually 89% of theirs. We are exceeding the financial investment in men's basketball at Clemson, which is a hallmark of Brownell's career.
Plus, we beat them the last time we played them, in December 2020.
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CU Guru [1620]
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Re: You might want to do some research
Sep 8, 2022, 5:15 PM
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before posting next time.
Let's use the last three years, since that is how long Nate Oates has been at Alabama. During that time, they are 61-36, a .629 winning percentage. We are 49-39, a .557 winning percentage.
Our performance is actually 89% of theirs. We are exceeding the financial investment in men's basketball at Clemson, which is a hallmark of Brownell's career.
Plus, we beat them the last time we played them, in December 2020.
CONGRATS your husband has been at Clemson four times longer than the Bama coach and is edging him out on wins. . You have to be proud we have a better basketball program than Bama
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Legend [16529]
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Excellent work, JK.
Sep 8, 2022, 5:47 PM
[ in reply to You might want to do some research ] |
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You managed to find a stat that Brad registers a B+ in. That's not easy. Your perseverance in defense of the Brown L is something to behold.
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Legend [17137]
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Re: Excellent work, JK.
Sep 8, 2022, 7:28 PM
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Weird that he’s ignoring Alabama has had 3 coaches in the time Brownell has been at Clemson, that $9.5 million of the program cost difference is buyouts for two of those coaches, and that they’ve been inarguably more successful over that stretch than Brownell has been. JK pretends he understands business. Anyone in the business world would understand that Brownell is a perfect case of throwing good money after bad. We are not going to suddenly, after 12 years of trying, going to have this massive ROI. That’s a gamblers fallacy - “if only we give him one more year, if only we give him some more money”.
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All-In [40989]
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We spend a lot more than the French and it shows***
Sep 8, 2022, 1:21 PM
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All-In [32835]
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Sublime post of the day - whale done ! -
Sep 8, 2022, 2:36 PM
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Croissants for errrrbody.
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CU Medallion [50014]
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I fully support your premises when
Sep 8, 2022, 1:25 PM
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I see Brad bring in 4 and 5* talent that equates to top 10 classes
I see Brad make 3 final 4's in 5 years. Doesn't have to even win a natty.
But explain this to everyone - with the tremendous disparity at Alabama, how are they able to recruit 4 and 5* bball talent?
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110%er [5598]
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Re: I fully support your premises when
Sep 8, 2022, 1:26 PM
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Oooo oooo I know I know!!
Coaching!?
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MVP [500]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 1:25 PM
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$8 million seems like too much money spent on basketball for the product we get. That money should be funneled to football instead.
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All-In [44293]
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All-In [27513]
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Re: "We".......LOL
Sep 8, 2022, 1:26 PM
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All-TigerNet [11731]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 1:36 PM
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And Alabama actually has a good basketball program under Nate Oates. You can make that much more in football, and still have a winning bkball program. What a great concept...
Hopefully Neff will try that in March with new leadership...
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Orange Blooded [2290]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 1:52 PM
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So that you don't waste too much time searching, I would limit my research to only head football coaches that have won 6 conference championships and 2 national titles in the last 7 years. Those would be the only ones that could be used to make a fair comparison anyway.
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110%er [5684]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:03 PM
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Dabo's Win Percentage: .806
Brownell's Win Percentage: .568
Maybe once we let Brownell go and get a winning coach we can see about spending more $.
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All-TigerNet [13454]
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:06 PM
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I'd pay $20 to replace the bball program with roller-derby, or a corn-hole team. I believe most of our sports are not inclusive of the higher BMI body types.
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Orange Blooded [3015]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 1876
Joined: 9/20/21
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This is really very simple…
Sep 8, 2022, 2:09 PM
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Return On Investment.
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All-In [44293]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 33125
Joined: 2/22/03
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Our men’s basketball makes a significant profit.
Sep 8, 2022, 6:49 PM
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In the real world, a business that makes a good profit would have more money put into it. But that’s not good enough for most Clemson fans.
Some of you expect a ridiculous ROI from men’s basketball, all in the name of the program “earning it” and “proving themselves.”
At the end of the day, most of you don’t want to spend anymore on men’s basketball because you’re scared it it will somehow hurt football. You look for any reason to avoid committing more to hoops. Admit it.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15718
Joined: 10/23/12
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This might be the most ridiculous BS you’ve ever posted…
Sep 8, 2022, 7:27 PM
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Heisman Winner [141346]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33991
Joined: 12/5/10
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Basketball - WIN, and the rest will follow.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:16 PM
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And let's be honest here - the 12 year results of the basketball program do not align with paying the coach the 38th highest salary in the country along with two tournament wins in 12 years. We spend way more money than tons of programs doing better than us. Let me know if you'd like a list.
Chicken --> egg.
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Legend [16529]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12860
Joined: 11/14/09
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Re: Basketball - WIN, and the rest will follow.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:30 PM
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BrownL over the last five years:
38th highest paid basketball coach
44th average ranked recruiting classes
71.6 average final season ranking
#OverAchieveLOL #IWantMyMoneyBack #FreeClemsonHoops
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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BEWM!... Comments, Mrs. B?
Sep 8, 2022, 2:40 PM
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Is that crickets we hear?
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Orange Blooded [2055]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1780
Joined: 10/13/15
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:29 PM
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I generally don't pile on your posts. But in this case, I will. NO, it's NOT worth pointing out. Why? Because men's basketball isn't a revenue needle mover for the university. Accept it and move on.
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All-In [32835]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14947
Joined: 6/29/11
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Well, troll, Dabo does 100 times more for the University &
Sep 8, 2022, 2:31 PM
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for the community than our doorknob basketball coach and basketball "program".
Would should happen then - in a sense of fair play - is cut more money from the basketball "program" and give it directly to Dabo - in 100 dollar bills.
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Legend [17137]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10935
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:47 PM
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It's great when you wreck your own talking points. Since Brownell took over (wherein Saban and Dabo were already in charge of their respective programs) Alabama basketball has missed the postseason once.
They've been to the NCAA tourney 4 times, and made the NIT 6 times and have both a regular season conference championship and a conference tournament championship. Brownell has failed to even qualify for the post season nearly half his time as head coach and has zero regular season or tournament conference championships. So apparently you can be much more successful than Brownell even if your football head coach makes more than your whole program.
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Orange Blooded [2017]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 2884
Joined: 2/10/02
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He's worth more
Sep 8, 2022, 2:53 PM
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Facts
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Orange Blooded [3238]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2143
Joined: 1/22/04
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 2:57 PM
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Next, cross reference how much we pay Dabo and how much we spend on the entire mens soccer program. Then explain why we can win at the highest level of soccer with that kind of spending difference.
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All-In [44293]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 33125
Joined: 2/22/03
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Please get back to us when soccer is a major college sport
Sep 8, 2022, 6:54 PM
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that makes money.
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Orange Blooded [3238]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2143
Joined: 1/22/04
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Re: Please get back to us when soccer is a major college sport
Sep 8, 2022, 7:09 PM
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Please get back to me when our basketball program is a major college program that generates interest.
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Hall of Famer [23098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7417
Joined: 8/31/03
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 3:54 PM
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I don't doubt your facts. But, I don't know what they mean.
If Dabo was paid 2 million dollars less and the basketball team got 2 million dollars more would that make the basketball team better? If Dabo was paid 4 million dollars less and the basketball team got 4 million dollars more would that make the basketball team even better?
I was a teacher as my career. My peers continually complained about how underpaid we were. My response was, "Well, go get one of those high paying jobs. Learn what it is like to have a deadline for a 10 million dollar job. Learn what it is like for the boss to tell you at 5:00 on Friday afternoon, "Have that report on my desk Monday morning at 7:00."
It's call capitalism. Dabo is being paid fair market value. The men's lacrosse coach is being paid fair market value. The assistant professor of biology is being paid fair market value.
When you are the very best at your profession - doctor, actor, athlete, coach, whatever - you get paid accordingly.
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Heisman Winner [141346]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33991
Joined: 12/5/10
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No one knows what his collection of facts is supposed to mean...
Sep 8, 2022, 4:03 PM
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so don't feel bad.
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Letterman [261]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/13/18
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 4:29 PM
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I was very hesitant to click on this post because I knew the first word would be 'but'...not disappointed
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Orange Blooded [4059]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3544
Joined: 8/19/03
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Who did not see this one coming?
Sep 8, 2022, 5:38 PM
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Who did not see this coming?
In the past few months - jk and his Calif sidekick have taken shot after shot at the football team and coaches. (Not to mention going after the softball team.). From complaining about Dabo’s coaching hires, to transfer portal (when few players were good and they were not interested in Clemson), to recruiting and the sky falling, to blaming development of players, to clearly missing on evaluations.
He took nasty shots at the offensive line and the linebackers. He posted how horrible we were last year. 10 win season.
So, it did not take a Ouija Board to know this post was coming. So so jelly of the football program.
Never mind that Dabo has achieved massive success. I don’t need to restate all the records - from playoffs to wins to conf championships, etc. he has posted more negatives regarding our football team during this historic streak , then negatives or the dozen years of underperformance of the basketball team. Which as well all know, has yet to win even a conf title.
So again, he posts a passive aggressive post of pure jealousy.
“New contract is great and I’m glad we did it” - and then goes on to write negativity about it.
Predictable.
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Freshman [-99]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 3740
Joined: 9/5/20
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Terrible take terrible analysis. Apples and oranges!
Sep 8, 2022, 8:03 PM
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A better analysis would be what were we paying Dabo when he first took over the program. He got raises as the program improved. You act like we’ve always spent this kind of money on football. He’s getting paid what he’s getting paid because of the results on the field. Brownell would get paid a lot more money if he was making the type of impact that Dabo has made.
Let’s be 100% clear and honest. Dabo got hired because the powers that be were not interested in spending a lot of money and having a national championship football program. Max Lennon and Barker had no intentions of athletics being a focus at Clemson University. Barker gave it lip service, but his actions made his true feelings and motivations very clear!
If Dabo had not improved the football program significantly he would not be getting paid anywhere near this level. Actually, had he gone five or six years without making improvements he probably would have been fired. Not because they wanted a successful program, but to continue giving fans hope so they would keep buying season tickets and paying for hotel rooms in the town of Clemson. They wanted a certain level of success for the obvious benefits, but they were not wanting Clemson to be a powerhouse in athletics. And that is 100% true to anyone that’s being honest and objective about Clemson University.
Frankly, we are overpaying Brownell. He should’ve been fired years ago. He should be thankful he is still head coach at Clemson! Because any other program would have fired his ### a long time ago!
In fact, today on the radio in Charleston, Bobby Hartin pointed out that what Dabo has done with the Clemson football program has impacted everything within a significant radius of Clemson. He talked about how much everything from Anderson to Easley has grown and improved since Dabo got to Clemson. He talked about how much the town and the University have improved since Dabo got to Clemson.
Think about how much housing values have gone up and profits for local businesses have gone up with the arrival of Dabo. Now ask yourself, what has. Brad Brownell done for Anderson, Easley, Clemson, property values in the area, business profits locally. What impact has Brad Brownell made on the community compared to Dabo?
The reality is what we are paying Dabo is a bargain when you look at his economic impact within a 60 mile radius of Clemson University.
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CU Medallion [54135]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23208
Joined: 10/10/11
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 8:17 PM
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The budget will increase more than it already has when/if the AD, President, and Board decide to hire a new coach with more proven success on a national level. Be thankful. We could still have Radakovich's basketball budgets.
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CU Guru [1668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1920
Joined: 7/11/13
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 9:47 PM
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Bc he is worth it … we are a football power and football school first get over it… it’s what 99% of fans want including myself, doesn’t correlate at all to us under achieving in basketball and baseball like we have … I think we are spending more on basketball to have us back respectable and maybe a tourney team at least which is all most want … baseball I think we hit a home run with that hire of course only time will tell but I like what we did
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Orange Blooded [4821]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6169
Joined: 9/16/06
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Re: Dabo's new contract is great, and I'm glad we did it.
Sep 8, 2022, 9:49 PM
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WGAF?
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CU Guru [1347]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1048
Joined: 7/5/04
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Sounds like a good business decision
Sep 8, 2022, 10:41 PM
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Thanks for doing the research Judge
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