Replies: 56
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CU Medallion [60083]
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110%er [7228]
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Very misleading tweet
Jan 22, 2019, 9:57 PM
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"late term" abortions are approved if the fetus isn't viable or it's deemed medically necessary.
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CU Medallion [60083]
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Re: Very misleading tweet
Jan 22, 2019, 9:59 PM
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What fetus isn’t viable Dr. Cac?
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Heisman Winner [111909]
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it is amazing how few of you can do a simple google search
Jan 22, 2019, 10:05 PM
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Non-viable fetus is a fetus that is not capable of living or developing. It can be an expelled or delivered fetus which, although living, cannot possibly survive to the point of sustaining life independently, even with support of the best available medical therapy.
1. the fetus will not make it, and is removed
2. She delivers the fetus prematurely, or has a miscarriage t a living fetus, but doctors determine it can not survive and are no longer legally required to sustain its life.
but right, this is murder snowflake.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb
Jan 22, 2019, 10:15 PM
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Would you oppose abortions if they were in Pakistan? Not talking trash. It's s serious question.
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CU Medallion [60083]
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Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb
Jan 22, 2019, 10:45 PM
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Would you oppose abortions if they were in Pakistan? Not talking trash. It's s serious question.
Would you oppose abortions if they were in Pakistan? Not talking trash. It's s serious question.
Yes. Always. A life is a life. I don’t care what your race or religion. I have a job that lets me travel where I want and when I want. No questions. I could die tomorrow and be happy. I have seen it all. And these decisions are selfish and detrimental.
Got close to a bad situation with a girl in Belgium on the TDF circuit (prior marriage) and she says, “it doesn’t matter we can take care of it”. That kind of statement is what endorses abortions. And opens the door for abortions. No thanks. I am not a poors UDP and buy a condom and stop it before I have to kill it.
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CU Medallion [60083]
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Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb
Jan 22, 2019, 10:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb ] |
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Tell me a situation where you cannot get a condom in NYC?
I don’t care the religious, or cultural background of any fetus. They should be protected.
What is that fetus and this person becomes an MLK, Or a Lebron James, Jordan or Creflo Dollar? You are terminating an opportunity.
Sick #####
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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The most tragic irony in our society.
Jan 22, 2019, 10:55 PM
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People are so confused how previous generations overwhelmingly supported ethnic cleansing of native Americans, slavery, firebombing cities.... but can't see the morbid cruelty of dismissing unborn people as "fetuses" despite the fact we scientifically know they are individual human beings. Politics is so effed. It managed to convince most of society that the freedom to kill the unborn was a women's rights issue. So ironic.
People so casually support the murder of others (nearly always out of convenience) out of the delusion that it doesn't count for some arbitrary reason.
People who literally cheer that sort of thing are ghoulish and don't even know it.
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CU Medallion [60083]
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Re: The most tragic irony in our society.
Jan 22, 2019, 11:11 PM
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FWIW I do not support death penalty. Even for the most egregious. Never. Let them rot in jail and have due process. You made your bed, lay in it.
Death is never an option. Fetus, 6wk, 8wk 12k and beyond. I don’t care if it shows it will have a marker for a disability. It’s a life. Let them live it out.
All you that cheer this are animals. Straight animals.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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I can't make up my mind on the death penalty.
Jan 22, 2019, 11:19 PM
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It's definitely deserved in many cases. But I don't trust the government or even a jury of my peers to get it right often enough.
I have changed my mind on this so I just don't have an opinion.
But it's just obvious from a scientific and logical perspective that abortion is murdering a person that can't protect themselves.
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Heisman Winner [138104]
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So a life is a life. And they're all equal. Agree?
Jan 23, 2019, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: The most tragic irony in our society. ] |
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6 week old fetus carries the same value as a 2 year old child, and as a teenager, and as a 52 year old man. Agree?
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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Scientifically speaking, that's exactly right.
Jan 23, 2019, 1:12 PM
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We have to subjectively/arbitrarily assign anything else beyond that.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Scientifically speaking, that's exactly right.
Jan 24, 2019, 12:23 PM
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I agree with you on basically everything, except this.
Science does not support the pro-life argument.
Biologically, a fetus is not an autonomous human. It is a symbiotic organism. It cannot survive outside of its mother's womb and, while it cannot develop into anything BUT a human, it itself is not autonomous human life. It is a symbiotic organism and therefore part of the mother's body.
The entire basis of our society in America is based on Smith's Natural Law. This principle only applies to autonomous humans. Under the logic we have adopted within our society to construct things such as the Constitution, the fetus's right to be born rests solely within the will of the host it share's a symbiotic relationship with.
Furthermore, under the principles of Natural Law, the philosophical beliefs of our founding fathers, and various components within the Constitution, we as a country do not have the right to use the Federal Government's power to regulate what people do with their bodies.
BUT, that also means the Federal Government has no authority to support any of these organizations that provide abortion services. Planned Parenthood should not exist under Federal funding. Not because PP is an "immoral and evil" organization, but because the Constitution literally says the Federal government has absolutely zero authority to support it.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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A “fetus” is 1. Human 2. Alive 3. Has its own DNA.
Jan 25, 2019, 7:52 AM
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That is not debatable. Those are established scientific facts. Now logic takes over...
If you do something to kill an Alive human with his/her own DNA then you are killing a person in an early stage of development. 6 month old babies can’t survive on their own. Autonomous survival straddles birth. That distinction is arbitrary.
The only element that has led to an effort to redefine a human life is that women are the host for new people until a certain stage of their development. If people developed in external eggs, you wouldn’t have the opinion about life you have now.
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Heisman Winner [111909]
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Re: The most tragic irony in our society.
Jan 22, 2019, 11:12 PM
[ in reply to The most tragic irony in our society. ] |
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Maybe if the church would help these young women out instead of harassing them with signs outide the clinic, they could have a better succes rate at talking the girls out of it. Say they offer to pay the medical bills and lost time at work, and found someone in their flock to adopt, a lot of abortions could be prevented.
But instead they hold signs and put guys like trump in office.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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Yeah that sucks too. But murdering innocent people....
Jan 22, 2019, 11:17 PM
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just sorta seems like on its own level of effed up.
I'm not a church person so I can't speak on that.
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CU Medallion [60083]
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Re: Yeah that sucks too. But murdering innocent people....
Jan 22, 2019, 11:27 PM
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You don’t have to be a church person. You just have fo know it’s a decision and many times, what sucks is that it’s not your decision. You want to keep life and raise the kid, she kills it. You have no say in the matter. It’s so messed up.
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CU Medallion [60083]
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Re: Yeah that sucks too. But murdering innocent people....
Jan 22, 2019, 11:31 PM
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I will stop and go to bed and will never revisit this thread. When I was 24 living in Charlotte this happened to me and I want to punch that bitchassmotherfucker everyday. I begged and begged knowing it would #### up my life Early and she still aborted. I can’t talk about it. I am done. #### all y’all that are cool with this law. #### you.
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Heisman Winner [111909]
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Re: Yeah that sucks too. But murdering innocent people....
Jan 22, 2019, 11:58 PM
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this makes a ton of sense.
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110%er [7228]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Yeah that sucks too. But murdering innocent people....
Jan 23, 2019, 9:06 AM
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I think it's the other living body that concerns conservatives. It's not the woman's body that is carrying the other person that concerns them. It's the body that is not the woman's which is inside the woman.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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I have no idea how this obvious point is so hard for people
Jan 23, 2019, 1:11 PM
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to understand. Oh wait... identity politics.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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It wasn't her body that he cared about. It was his child.
Jan 23, 2019, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yeah that sucks too. But murdering innocent people.... ] |
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Maybe you need a biology lesson... but we are not talking about a third labia. We are talking about a new person. Maybe they develop technology that removes women's bodies from the equation... that way people will stop casually supporting murder for convenience.
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110%er [7228]
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That's funny
Jan 24, 2019, 6:58 AM
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You have a different definition of life than I do, which is fine, you're more than welcome to it, please don't have any abortions, just don't go telling other people what to do.
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All-In [26968]
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Do you think we should tell people not to kill
Jan 24, 2019, 12:26 PM
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3-year olds? What if the person doesn't believe a 3-year old has a life deserving of continuing? Should we tell them what to do? Can't get too judge-y now.
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110%er [7228]
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Re: Do you think we should tell people not to kill
Jan 24, 2019, 1:25 PM
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Yawn.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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You are confidently callous about murdering babies.
Jan 25, 2019, 7:35 AM
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Your definition goes against logic and science. You may want to reconsider; look at what is at stake. Your arbitrary definition of life, based on nothing but politically motivated group-think has led you down a path of justifying a holocaust.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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110%er [7033]
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I have seen it with a close friend of mine as well.
Jan 23, 2019, 1:13 PM
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It was one of the most horrible things I've seen someone go through. Most people that have loud opinions on the subject have never been or even been around someone affected by an abortion. They just spew the same old talking points.
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Legend [17923]
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Wow - that is a broad brush you are pushing there
Jan 23, 2019, 7:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: The most tragic irony in our society. ] |
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as if the "church" doesn't do anything but "harass with signs outside a clinic." That's a pretty (and petty) ignorant comment. Bet you had fun with that one.
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Heisman Winner [111909]
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Re: Wow - that is a broad brush you are pushing there
Jan 23, 2019, 8:46 AM
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I would be pleased to learn that there is a nation wide effort being made by the church to help single women financially through their pregnancies, because most abortions are for financial reasons.. Please let me know the name of this foundation, or any of those that are similar.
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Oculus Spirit [79453]
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I know it may come as a surprise to you, but "the church" is
Jan 23, 2019, 9:42 AM
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not some nationwide, federal government-like organization. Most of them are strictly local, and they do often help women out in situations like this. Are you really this oblivious?
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Heisman Winner [111909]
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Re: I know it may come as a surprise to you, but "the church" is
Jan 24, 2019, 9:48 AM
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nothing gets past you genius.
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110%er [7033]
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb
Jan 24, 2019, 9:31 AM
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I haven't read the law, but from what I've seen reported, all it really did was change the standard for being able to get an abortion after 24 weeks. Previously, they were only allowed if the mother's life was at risk. Now, they're allowed if the mother's health is endangered.
Seems to me that's a good thing for women's health.
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All-In [26968]
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What about an infant who cries a lot
Jan 24, 2019, 12:08 PM
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which doesn't allow his or her mother to get a healthy level of sleep? Should that baby be killed, for the sake of the mother's health?
As a toddler, I once kicked my mom in the shins, and she got a bruise. Should I have been killed, for the sake of her health?
Lord knows we want the women to have their health...that's the most important thing, after all.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Totally the same thing Prod, totally the same.
Jan 24, 2019, 12:11 PM
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I'd think someone so firmly entrenched in opposition to something would have a better response here. I'm not mad, just disappointed.
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All-In [26968]
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Sorry to disappoint you.
Jan 24, 2019, 12:16 PM
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Care to tell us what the difference is in the scenarios?
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Rock Defender [54]
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The difference between parenting and growing
Jan 24, 2019, 12:18 PM
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something inside of you?
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All-In [26968]
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Growing something inside of you...
Jan 24, 2019, 12:21 PM
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Nice. Like a potted plant.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Not like a potted plant. But different than a toddler.***
Jan 24, 2019, 12:28 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Re: Not like a potted plant. But different than a toddler.***
Jan 24, 2019, 12:30 PM
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Let's say a woman's due date is tomorrow. She believes that having this child will be detrimental to her health. Would you say she should hurry up and kill the child before he or she is born, because after he or she is born, the killing would then become wrong? Or do you think the mother should be able to decide that the day after the child is born?
In other words, please tell me specifically at what point in the timeline of the child's life it becomes wrong to kill the child, in your opinion.
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Rock Defender [54]
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My arguments have always involved viability.
Jan 24, 2019, 12:35 PM
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20 weeks seems like plenty of time for this. However, special circumstances exist.
Women have sat in catholic hospital beds waiting for signs of sepsis to begin, so that the hospital can abort a dead fetus. This isn't a hypothetical.
Carrying a child to term can be fatal. In those instances where it could be fatal, abortion seems the lesser of two as both mother and child could die.
I've had 3 kids. I've lost a child. It's nothing I'm flippant or dismissive about. Blanket bans, like you advocate for, don't leave room for medically necessary procedures.
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All-In [26968]
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The only thing I would support...
Jan 24, 2019, 12:42 PM
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Would be if it is known for 100% fact that neither the child nor mother will or can live. In that case, it's like taking someone off life support, that has no chance of surviving. This is only if it is known that the child WILL die, and the mother WILL die, for certain.
Devastating it would be, but morally right to me. Otherwise, you're just deciding you don't want a child to live because someone or something else is more important.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Sorry to disappoint you.
Jan 24, 2019, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to Sorry to disappoint you. ] |
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A fetus is not an autonomous human. It is a symbiotic organism and as such, it is a part of the mother's body.
It is literally a component system that is part of the mother. There are several metaphorical examples I would use to simplify it and make understanding it a more relatable example, but then I would likely be demonized by people in here who would say something to the effect of "OMG YOU SICK #### THERES A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HUMAN FETUS AND A [Insert metephorical material example I use]!*
The difference is, a symbiotic organism operates similarly to any other organ within your body. Yes, it is more advanced, but as it stands, it is not its own autonomous organism and cannot survive without being dependent upon its host.
Some people like to say "a fetus is a parasite". This is incorrect. A parasite is totally autonomous, where all of its internal systems are its own, and it only sources food/sustainance from its host. It also has autonomous systems within it designed for fighting off infection and things from it's host that are attempting to remove it.
A symbiotic organism shares vastly more significant systems with its host/mother, beyond sustenance. Its entire nervous system, immune system, vascular etc. etc are intricately tied tot he host/mother, just like any other system in the mother's body. Yes, eventually the fetus will leave its host, but while it is in the womb is is not its own autonomous being.
A baby, obviously, IS its own autonomous being. It has its own independent brain, nervous system, vascular system, immune system, etc. etc. It does not require a host organism to thrive outside in the world. Its state of living is no different than any other human.
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All-In [26968]
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So, child is dependent on mother.
Jan 24, 2019, 12:37 PM
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OK to dismember. Got it.
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110%er [7033]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Whatever helps you sleep at night***
Jan 24, 2019, 1:15 PM
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If you can find a scientific study that states otherwise, please show me.
The science and the philosophy that has built our country and is ingrained in the Constitution do not support the Pro-Life argument. Its a tough pill to swallow, especially for me personally (for reasons I dont want to get into). But an objective person has to see that.
But, the Constitution outright says our government cannot support abortion services.
If it is going to exist, it must exist in private practice only.
If Pro-Life groups want to push for regulating abortion, then they are only permitted to do so at the state level under the 10th Amendment, and even then it would be improper to leverage religious views to do so. The Federal government is strictly prohibited from regulating this.
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110%er [7033]
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Well I do agree that it's a state issue.***
Jan 24, 2019, 1:18 PM
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All-In [26968]
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CU Medallion [60083]
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Re: I couldn't possibly care less
Jan 24, 2019, 1:50 PM
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Exactly. A procedure that goes into the base of the baby's skull, sucks out the brain and collapses the skull is ghoulish at best and I really cannot explain how sick it makes me that some of you are applauding this and that the New York lawmakers are proud. So sad and may God help us all.
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110%er [7033]
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People that applaud this either
Jan 24, 2019, 1:54 PM
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Have never had any personal experience with abortion, Or have benefited from an abortion due to an "accidental" unwanted pregnancy.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: People that applaud this either
Jan 24, 2019, 2:18 PM
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This law has nothing to do with abortions just to correct an unwanted pregnancy.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I couldn't possibly care less
Jan 24, 2019, 3:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: I couldn't possibly care less ] |
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The Constitution has everything to do with this. Its the law of the land. Demanding for a law to be enacted or criminal regulation of people's lives simply based on your extremely biased opinion of the matter is nothing short or irrationally fueled tyranny.
Ignoring science is also a dangerous precedent.
Like it or not, you are argument is solely based on your opinion, which is fueled by emotions. Emotions do not form laws, facts and logic do. Sure, you may have had traumatic experiences int he past, but that does not mean you should impose your system of beliefs on other people.
You would disagree that we should ban guns and seize them from law abiding gun owners after a shooting. We dont enact alcohol prohibition due to drunk drivers. The same applies here.
The science doesn't support your view. The basis of the Constitution does not support your view.
In this country, we do not have the right to dictate what other people do with their bodies, whether you think their actions are "evil" or not. What you believe to be "evil" is a question of morality, and your personal view of morality is subjective to your perspective and is not universal among all people. We have a common set of natural rights, called human rights, which are enshrined in the Constitution. Then we have laws which protect individuals from having their rights violated. Outside of those basic laws, we do not have the right to force other people to live their lives regulated by the opinions of your sense of morality.
Also, under the 10th Amendment, those of us in South Carolina have no right to try and dictate what happens in any other state.
I'm also not "applauding" anything. I am not singing the praises of this bill. I'm not supporting it. I'm not lobbying for it to pass and be enacted to law (though it was passed). All I am saying, is that WE do not have the right to legislate what other people do with their bodies, and that we do not have the legal right to dictate what happens in the legislation of other states.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb
Jan 26, 2019, 11:42 AM
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What is the difference between a child 5 minutes from being born or 5 minutes after it’s born?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb
Jan 26, 2019, 11:43 AM
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10 minutes
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110%er [7228]
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Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb
Jan 26, 2019, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: NY passes late term fully formed ~6lb ] |
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Other than one has actually been born? One is breathing air and one is still attached by an umbilical cord?
Not to mention that this whole thing is about the ones who can't make it to birth or at least not without harming the mother.
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