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Enthusiast [123]
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Jack Leggett
Jun 23, 2012, 7:47 AM
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Jack should have been on the hot seat this past season based on our last few seasons and by what is happening in Columbia. IF SC wins their 3rd straight CWS does anyone think he will start feeling the pressure and the heat?
I sure hope so
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CU Guru [1851]
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No****
Jun 23, 2012, 7:49 AM
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MVP [514]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 23, 2012, 7:53 AM
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No! For the past several of years, USC has dominated collge baseball. They are not just beating Clemson, they are beating everyone. I dont think that Jack can do much about it, although nobody wishes more the me that their run of good fortune will come to an end soon.
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Enthusiast [111]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 23, 2012, 8:10 AM
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This is the most "Spot On" post I've seen from a Tiger fan regarding our run of success, and accurately sums up the reality of the situation. Putting the head-to-head asside, what South Carolina has done the last three years is actually shocking to most Gamecock fans too. After what happened Thursday alone, every gamecock fan on our board, and ones I talk to day to day have basically conceeded that Ray Tanner is a baseball genius.
Clemson gave SoCarolina the best matchup in the regionals (probably) of any team in the last couple of seasons. Save Arkansas' performance in the CWS so far, You guys may have been the best team we've played in the playoffs the past couple of years total, but we found a way to win. You guys can call it luck all day long. I'll take luck and play in the Finals again, and be glad we're lucky.
But as my man said here. We've done this to everyone we've played in the post season the last three years, and Jack Leggett and the Tigers were as good as any we've played and won against. To want him gone simply because SC is in the position we're in again, and Clemson isn't would be like Florida wanting to dump O'Sullivan, or Arkansas wanting to ditch Van Horn because of the number of times we've played and eliminated them from the Tourney. Not to mention that in this run, Clemson isn't here this year simply because of NCAA scheduling that put us in the same regionals. ... Who knows, Jack may have had you all in Omaha had you played in the Charlotesville Reg. or Gainesville Reg. As best as it can be described, you were just one of the teams in our region we had to beat to get here again, and undescribable as it is, we did what we had to do to get here again.
Getting rid of Leggett because of our success against him in this stretch would be a huge mistake for Clemson. If you only want to see his success overall measured by what we've done to other teams and coaches, you're setting him up for failure by Your EXPECTATIONS alone. Overall he's as good as any coach in the CWS right now (IMO)
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 23, 2012, 8:29 AM
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Those who have issues with the current Clemson baseball situation are looking deeper than just the failure to beat Ray Tanner and the SCAR program.
Our caps have Omaha stitched on the back for a reason. We expect to get to Omaha every year.
In order to get to Omaha on a regular basis, Clemson needs to do better in the regular season, setting up favorable situations for hosting regionals and super regionals.
Becoming the #2 seed in Columbia was a situation of our own making and perhaps it would have been better if we were in another regional, but I doubt it.
The bottom line is that for Clemson to succeed year-in and year-out, we simply cannot be playing in anybody else's regional ...
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CU Guru [1243]
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It might be time to
Jun 23, 2012, 8:37 AM
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Take Omaha off your hats. I say that because that's a lot of pressure. You don't have to stitch that on your hats to have it as a goal.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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If you expect to get to Omaha every year, then you're
Jun 23, 2012, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jack Leggett ] |
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an idiot. There are 8 teams that go. Believing that a motto demands you be one of those 8 teams, every year, is just utterly foolish and self-destructive.
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Orange Blooded [3910]
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LOL....
Jun 23, 2012, 9:00 AM
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"Utterly foolish" is about as outlandish a comment as you claim "omaha" to be in this situation.
A) The goal every year IS to get to Omaha. B) No one gets there every year.
Understanding the two may be a bit of a stretch for you obviously.
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Fan [93]
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CU Medallion [57676]
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uh, gamecocks ARE idiots.***
Jun 23, 2012, 10:22 AM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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The "motto" establishes the "goal" ... sets expectations.
Jun 23, 2012, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to If you expect to get to Omaha every year, then you're ] |
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Of course we won't always reach the goal, but as long as it remains the goal, it will always be the expectation.
If it's not our goal, nor our expectation, then don't stitch it on the back of our caps.
Personally, I have always loved the fact that for Clemson baseball, Omaha became an expectation rather than a dream.
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1st Rounder [636]
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Maybe we need to replace "Omaha" with "Championship."***
Jun 23, 2012, 12:53 PM
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CU Medallion [68200]
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Re: Just a shame
Jun 23, 2012, 8:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jack Leggett ] |
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That don't "screw up baserunning" won't fit on there
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CU Medallion [55667]
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Re: Just a shame
Jun 23, 2012, 9:15 AM
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So many people forget that these are 17, 18, 19 year old kids that are making mistakes in high pressure situations. Even adults make mistakes when put in pressure situation. I do believe that we are at least one Pitcher short of being where AZ and the Coots are right now. We WILL be back, and I don't have any doubts about that.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Know you don't want to hear this
Jun 23, 2012, 9:18 AM
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But where south Carolina is at right now is amazingly rare air
3 finals series in a row.
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CU Medallion [68200]
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we wouldnt know***
Jun 23, 2012, 9:43 AM
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Recruit [89]
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Re: Just a shame
Jun 23, 2012, 10:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: Just a shame ] |
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These are also 17-19yr olds that have been playing baseball since they were 6. Rationalizing the problem will not make it go away
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Rock Defender [54]
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It doesn't say "Omaha" every year
Jun 23, 2012, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jack Leggett ] |
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Or at least it didn't used to. Jack would put some kind of slogan or goal on the back of the hat, but it doesn't/didn't always say "Omaha".
We had a disappointing season. It's over. It looks like the recruiting class is very solid with some quality arms coming in that we so desperately need.
Maybe it's just time to move on and talk about football season.
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Varsity [230]
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KYBER and TEAM are the only other ,.....
Jun 24, 2012, 4:37 PM
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...please correct me if I`m wrong. My old brain does get things mixed up and the fact I`ve seen a bunch of Tiger baseball games going back to pre-Leggett yrs.
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Walk-On [149]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 23, 2012, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jack Leggett ] |
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Very good post. My congrats to the Gamecocks. You're right, they are doing to everyone else what they have done to us.It just stings us more because of our rivalry.
SC will have their run, and then someone else will take their place. Who knows? It might be Clemson.
In the meantime, I know it's a blast for Gamecock fans.
Teams like this Gamecock squad don't have luck just fall in their lap (except on rare occasion). that's simply not where consistent luck comes from.
Rather, they produce their luck. Their fundamental soundness together with their talent level is just too much for other teams to crack right now.
Just consider me one jealous Clemson fan that really admires the way they play.
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All-Pro [659]
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Agreed and SC isn't killing us. SC knows how to win right
Jun 25, 2012, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Jack Leggett ] |
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now. Especially in HUGE games. We play them close. They have been getting the breaks (mainly referring to last year vs. UF) and that's huge in baseball. Tanner even admits it. Just a confident group and certainly talented.
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Hall of Famer [23213]
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No, Leggett shouldn't feel any more heat than Larry Penley
Jun 23, 2012, 8:04 AM
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That might hit a nerve with clemsongolfer2. The golfers won a NC in '03, but Tnet seems to be concerned about what have you done for me lately. Jack's led CU to over 800 wins, 17 postseasons, 6 CWS, and the 6th winningest program during his time.
http://www.clemsontigers.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/leggett_jack00.html
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CU Medallion [51770]
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And has 17 new recruits coming in next year who
Jun 23, 2012, 8:12 AM
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should make a difference.
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Associate AD [823]
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Re: And has 17 new recruits coming in next year who
Jun 23, 2012, 8:21 AM
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Wow....we have now hit the "wait til next year" mode of operation. Give me a break. "Jack Leg"gett is getting very little out of a program that should be competing year-in-and-year-out for national championships. If you think he's doing a good job, I've got some tropical land to sell you in Canada.
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CU Medallion [51770]
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Well... after just saying I won't post again for a week
Jun 23, 2012, 8:33 AM
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you make that impossible. This is not "wait until next year" stuff. You comment that we need to get rid of Jack because he can't get the job done and won't accept a response that shows that he is doing just that. I am NOT drinking orange Kool-Aid ... and refuse to drink your James Jones flavor either !
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CU Medallion [55667]
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Re: And has 17 new recruits coming in next year who
Jun 23, 2012, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: And has 17 new recruits coming in next year who ] |
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There isn't anyone in our entire fan base that hates coots and USC anymore than I do, and I can promise you that. But a ### coot on this board has shown more common sense than you fbtigers. I was at the game when we went 12 innings with the coots. And there wasn't a thing more that Jack could have done to win that game. Right now, Ray Tanner is probably making the best coaching decisions than anyone in college BB. Is he a head to toe better coach than Jack, I say NO!!! The coots are also getting most of the lucky breaks falling there way. And to say it isn't so is just crazy. My vote (and it only counts as one) is to leave Jack Leggett right where he is. And yes, lets see how it goes next year. All the pressure is on everybody else right now. The coots have won it twice in a row, and they are playing like defending champs. Giving the coots any kind of credit of being a great team leaves a very nasty taste in my mouth. But it is what it is. We will see Thug University the last week in November.... GOOOOOOO TIGERSSSS!!!
P/S I know it doesn't matter to anyone but me. But I love Clemson and our fans. Tiger Nation IS the best all around fan base in the entire country.
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Enthusiast [111]
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Re: And has 17 new recruits coming in next year who
Jun 25, 2012, 10:11 AM
[ in reply to Re: And has 17 new recruits coming in next year who ] |
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True story ... Kind of long, but it has a point:
4-5 years ago, cockytalk was full of threads and posts saying the same thing about Ray Tanner and Mark Calvi that you guys are saying about Jack Leggett right now. at the end of 2009, I was about as frustrated with any group of fans anywhere, as I was our own fans there calling for Tanner to step down, and take Calvi with him. He was too old, and the game had passed him by, he had taken this program as far as he could and we needed to give it to Holbrook to take us into the future etc... Then 2010 happened and all was forgiven (The Ture Story) We had a new member join who was kind of "naive" about how posting worked, but someone explained to him how to check out some of the older threads. He wanted to read up on past event of the board, and found a thread that someone started at the end of the 2009 season, that ran about 8 pages long, with everyone in it crucifying Tanner and Calvi for the way the Mis-managed the team that year in the post season. He replied in there that he thought it was cool to go back and look at "what happened" in the past, and see how it had changed to present day. That post in there bumped the year old thread to the front of the forum, and within 5 minutes, all the mod's PM and Email boxes were loaded with members wanting us to delete that thread that some *$$Hole bumped to start trouble. ... basically eveyone who sent me, or the admin or the other mods a PM or Email to delete the thread were the same people who were on the board currently praising Tanner (and then) Mark Calvi for the job they did during the CWS. Those fans were BEGGING for that thread to be deleted because they were calling for Tanner's / Calvi's head on a stick, and a year later he was the best coach in USC history in their book ,and "THEY NEVER DOUBTED HIM, and were in his corner when everyone else was trashing him in the past. They were embarassed that they were not on the bandwagon and that everyone would see that a short time ago, they weren't as supportive of Coach Ray and Mark as they made out like they were now.
Be careful what you wish for. We were fortunate enough to have an administration that didn't give in to a lot of butt hurt fans and knew we had a good solid coach running the program. Believe me, you'd be a lot more hurn if Leggett got canned today, and ends up with another team in the CWS finals a year or two down the line.
I'm 100% Gamecock. Have been since the mid 60s. I'll say this with no hesitation. If Ray Tanner decided to hang it up after this season, I'd have no issues at all with USC hiring Jack Leggett to replace him. I'd be very happy with that decision.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Sorry but what you are doing now and in recent years is what
Jun 25, 2012, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to No, Leggett shouldn't feel any more heat than Larry Penley ] |
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matters. Anything more than 3 seasons ago is history and should have no bearing on now. It's idiotic to think there is no statute of limitations on winning. You think Danny Ford would still be HC if he had more than 2 consecutive losing seasons? TDP himself has stated coaching is in fact a "what have you done for me lately" profession.
This is a business like any other business. If a company has an employee that is losing them money that employee is going to get fired if they don't turn things around, regardless of how much money he made for the company 10 or 20 years ago.
Once a coach or any employee loses their edge and is hurting the brand, they need to be fired or forcibly retired & reassigned.
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CU Guru [1305]
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^^^^^yawn......
Jun 23, 2012, 8:29 AM
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Please why bring up fire Jack. Maybe stop being a little jealous cry baby and realize that has been our most successful sport of late. I'm glad ppl in you aren't in charge of Clemson athletics making decisions based on how USC is peaking athletically.
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CU Guru [1305]
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Who are you going to hire thats better?
Jun 23, 2012, 8:31 AM
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Florida's coach w/ Clemson ties that has choked since he's been there in the big games and also has been dominated by the ##### recently or Vandy's coach who has also been beating by the ##### all around lately or UVA'a coach who does good in the season and then chokes hardcore and losses to App State in their own region. These are the three names I hear and none of them have rings or have done anything to prove they are a better coach than Jack.
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CU Medallion [55667]
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Re: Who are you going to hire thats better?
Jun 23, 2012, 9:26 AM
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Jack is a very good coach. But its hard to see that after a loss to the coots. And especially with the coots going back to the CWS for the third in a row. If we would have won every game in regular season. Then get beat by the coots. The fire Jack calls would be just as loud as they are now. But I would wager that no one hates losing to them any more than Jack Leggett does.
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CU Guru [1400]
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Re: Who are you going to hire thats better?
Jun 24, 2012, 8:35 PM
[ in reply to Who are you going to hire thats better? ] |
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I'd like to see what Gary Gilmore could do at a program with our resources.
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CU Guru [1400]
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LMAO
Jun 25, 2012, 12:16 AM
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@ the thumbs down with no retort. Coward.
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Scout Team [166]
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Only if our AD starts holding him accountable for improvemen***
Jun 23, 2012, 9:34 AM
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Mascot [24]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 23, 2012, 9:57 AM
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No we spend $52,350 to USC spending $118,000 per player per year,,grad rate is better,apr is better,no arrests,no developmental team and no jr college players
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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I don't understand
Jun 25, 2012, 10:20 AM
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why "Jr College" is a 4-letter word at Clemson now.
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CU Guru [1321]
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Jack Leggett's moderate success is above average.
Jun 23, 2012, 10:00 AM
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It only seems bad because your neighbor down the road is soaking up the limelight. The '##### have beaten everyone in the post season though, not just Clemson, not just Florida, not just UCLA, but everyone.
Are they the best team in baseball? Maybe maybe not. But they are the best team on the field that particular game every time.
Do they get lucky breaks? Yes. EVERYONE gets lucky breaks. But when you look at a team and say "They're always lucky", recognize that a lot of what you perceive to be luck is just fine details, trained and coached to make things happen. Small things make a team seem lucky but are very intentional at that level.
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Oculus Spirit [91145]
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COOTS SUCCESS IS WHAT WE WANT, SO GET ER DONE OR STOP.......
Jun 23, 2012, 10:42 AM
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COMPLAINING. UNTIL THEN BE A SPORT & CONGRATULATE THEM ON SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T OR CAN'T DO...OR JUST SAY "WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR"...OR HOPE FOOTBALL SEASON STARTS SOON.
GO TIGERS!
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Rock Defender [54]
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My wanting Jack replaced has nothing to do with USC. I want
Jun 25, 2012, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to Jack Leggett's moderate success is above average. ] |
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Jack gone because our program has been in decline for around 10 years. We are still a good program, but we are under achieving and have fallen quite a bit since Jack took over. We can't win the big games under Jack, mainly due to self inflicted wounds like fielding and base running errors at key points of critical games, and a pattern of poor management of the pitching staff. It happens to every team sometimes, but it is a very noticeable trend at Clemson.
It is obvious Jack does not have the personality and coaching style to win championships.
What is our goal as a program?
To win championships?
or
To merely be competitive and occasionally get hot and go on a limited run very 4 or 5 years?
If our goal is the former, then we need to retire Jack and bring in new blood. If it's the latter, then Jack is fine.
Our problem is, our president and AD play us for suckers. They say they want championships to dupe the fans, but their actions say otherwise. As fans we should be po'd and demand better.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 24, 2012, 5:09 PM
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Jack wins enough not to get fired. Sadly we will never win a Championship under him. We are not a very good fundamental team under his coaching. We dont do the little things correct that Championship teams do. Bunting Baserunning and fielding.
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All-TigerNet [14509]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 24, 2012, 5:43 PM
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groundhog day for you and the blue coot. both of yall are from charleston. are yall kin, "friends" or what. it is the same broken record 24/7 for you 2 lovebirds. we all got it. you 2 cant stand our hall of fame coach. really, we got it.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 25, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Once again deroberts I dont hate Jack.
Have a nice day. I have had this same argument with you 80 times. Why dont you just ignore my posts instead of following me around like a sad little puppy posting the same FALSE non sense over and over again. The accusations with no basis are getting a little old.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 25, 2012, 8:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jack Leggett ] |
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Do you ever get tired of hearing yourself
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 25, 2012, 10:23 AM
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and the two members of the Jack fan club attack once again. I am shocked they can't respond to any thing I say. Are you two incapable of having an actual conversation?
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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You and deroberts
Jun 25, 2012, 10:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jack Leggett ] |
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Does that mean you're saying our bunting and base-running have been good the last few years?
I fully expect you to TD this post and not respond, or to respond with some nonsensical answer and call me a Jack-hater. Please prove me wrong.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: You and deroberts
Jun 25, 2012, 10:25 AM
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They will refuse to have any conversation about our fundamentals or lack thereof.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: Jack Leggett
Jun 25, 2012, 8:13 AM
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Fortunately the Clemson administration doesn't give a rats #### what some dumbarse golfer thinks.
> Jack should have been on the hot seat this past > season based on our last few seasons and by what is > happening in Columbia. IF SC wins their 3rd straight > CWS does anyone think he will start feeling the > pressure and the heat? > > I sure hope so
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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They should
Jun 25, 2012, 10:25 AM
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Golf has more national championships than baseball, they probably know what they're talking about.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: They should
Jun 25, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Why should be opinion of someone who plays a country club pseudo-sport like golf have any relevance to baseball, football or basketball? If they want to talk about who make the best golf shirts or golf shoes I'll listen to them. But baseball, not a chance. Bet you think Plyer knows baseball too don't you?
> Golf has more national championships than baseball, > they probably know what they're talking about.
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Scout Team [162]
TigerPulse: 61%
Posts: 271
Joined: 8/31/11
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Until SCAR's recent success nobody cared!!!
Jun 25, 2012, 10:28 AM
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Now all I hear is fire Jack. He is a good coach but is wrong about local talent. He needs to do a better job of getting the English's and Roth's, Pankake's etc. of the world!
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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wrongv wrong wrong usc's success has simply helped to
Jun 25, 2012, 1:50 PM
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magnify our downward trend.
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Replies: 50
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