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Replies: 42
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National Champion [7936]
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If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 8:26 AM
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…..can you come out with a straight face and fire Lee…send out a silly a letter saying you need x and y to be successful…..either you say both aren’t living up to a standard or invest in both but don’t come out with your double standard and stupid letters ….my two cents …have a Good Friday 
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CU Medallion [20214]
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I hear ya...my 2 cents...Brownell has hovered around
May 27, 2022, 8:53 AM
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mediocrity, which historically is where Clemson hoops has always been. He's got a bit of Tommy Bowden in him in that he does just enough to survive. The best argument to letting him go is that we've seen what he can do...let's try someone new.
Clemson baseball was once a proud top ten program. At the end of the Leggett era we had fallen from grace. Well Monte was hired to get us back to the top...not to where Leggett had left us. We've peaked under Lee, I don't see us doing much better in the future under his leadership.
I believe both should be let go...more so Lee than Brownell. That being said, I think we'll be getting another letter.
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TigerNet Elite [71509]
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Re: I hear ya...my 2 cents...Brownell has hovered around
May 27, 2022, 2:53 PM
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I expect the same maniac. Mediocrity is where you'll stay without changes. I would love to be wrong, but unfortunately history is on my side.
Go Tigers!!!
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Valley Legend [12938]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 9:00 AM
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Hey look, another "fan" who does not understand the differences between sports programs at Clemson. CBB is actually better than our basketball history at Clemson. Monte...not so much. CBB got us to the sweet 16 and beat UNC at CH. Something which has hardly ever happened and has never happened at Clemson.
CBB has always been competitive which has always been the case with our basketball program. Monte has never hosted a super regional which has been the standard at least ever few years at Clemson.
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Freshman [-94]
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How old are you?
May 27, 2022, 9:19 AM
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I’ll promise you Brad Brownell is not better than Clemson basketball history. He is the second worst Clemson basketball coach in my 56 years on planet earth. Only Larry Shyatt has been worse than Brad Brownell over the last 50+ years.
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Valley Legend [12938]
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Re: How old are you?
May 27, 2022, 9:56 AM
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I’ll promise you Brad Brownell is not better than Clemson basketball history. He is the second worst Clemson basketball coach in my 56 years on planet earth. Only Larry Shyatt has been worse than Brad Brownell over the last 50+ years.
Your promises without data mean you are basing your comments on "feelings". You feel he is not better but you have not bothered to actually look at the data.
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Clemson Conqueror [11205]
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Isn’t this where you log in
1
May 27, 2022, 10:30 AM
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as Cobbox and call the other poster “lunatic fringe”???
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Top TigerNet [32856]
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my bet is
May 27, 2022, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: How old are you? ] |
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you are average in every aspect
and i mean every aspect.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Brad is significantly better than our basketball history.
May 27, 2022, 12:11 PM
[ in reply to How old are you? ] |
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You might want to do a little more research before posting.
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TigerNet Icon [153231]
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Agreed....
May 27, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Clemson Historical Win Percentage: 50.6%
Brad Brownell: 56.8%
People need to see this.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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You're right, they should.
May 27, 2022, 12:46 PM
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It's especially important for people who post emotionally and not with facts of any sort.
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TigerNet Elite [71509]
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Re: You're right, they should.
May 27, 2022, 3:02 PM
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I agree he is better than Clemson history, but is that good enough? I would like to be a little bit better. Being competitive is one thing, but winning is the next step. If Brad can win more games fine, but as I say... the proof's in the puddin.
I'm 60 now, and I ain't gittin any younger.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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We should strive for more success in basketball.
May 28, 2022, 10:51 AM
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Our AD’s investment has been subpar in the past. I’m glad to see Neff set bigger goals for the program AND put more money into it accordingly.
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Top TigerNet [32856]
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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I don't follow.***
May 27, 2022, 12:45 PM
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TigerNet Icon [153231]
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Monte is better than our baseball average...
May 27, 2022, 12:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world ] |
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"CBB is actually better than our basketball history at Clemson. Monte...not so much."
Through 2021 Clemson had a .640 winning percentage, Monte is at .642.
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TigerNet Elite [71509]
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Re: Monte is better than our baseball average...
May 27, 2022, 3:10 PM
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If Monte can win more games each season, then keep him. If he can't do any better than .642, then it's time to move on. It's as simple as that.
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CU Medallion [18467]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 9:08 AM
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Regardless of RPI - between a losing record and a 12th place ACC finish, Lee has arguably had the 2 worst Clemson baseball seasons, back to back, in 70 years. There is no comparison between the degree of failure between those two coaches. That it’s even remotely considered a possibility that Lee would come back is an embarrassing reflection on our AD’s lack of commitment to men’s sports that aren’t football ( and the soccer and football coaches predate DRad and his acolyte anyway).
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Freshman [-94]
TigerPulse: 68%
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But he has a great recruiting class lined up.
May 27, 2022, 9:23 AM
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Come on man!
We can’t lose this recruiting class!
There are people out there right now saying that exact thing! That’s certainly what the experts on South Carolina sports radio are saying.
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CU Medallion [18467]
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Re: But he has a great recruiting class lined up.
May 27, 2022, 10:06 AM
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His recruiting is about average for his recruiting class, all of which are lower than the one he inherited from Leggett - the only squad he did anything with.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 9:33 AM
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Easy
Brownell has kept the team above, if not well above the historical average of the program. Brownell (.568) vs (.506) in an much harder environment for non-blueblood to win. Every season that BB coaches, our stats improve.
Monty has tanked a program. We are a top 10 program nationally in wins.... and yet we aren't even top 10 in the ACC. Every game Monty coaches, our stats decline.
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Valley Legend [12938]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 9:57 AM
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Easy
Brownell has kept the team above, if not well above the historical average of the program. Brownell (.568) vs (.506) in an much harder environment for non-blueblood to win. Every season that BB coaches, our stats improve.
Monty has tanked a program. We are a top 10 program nationally in wins.... and yet we aren't even top 10 in the ACC. Every game Monty coaches, our stats decline.
Be careful as some posters "feel" this is untrue in in posting facts you might hurt their "feelings"
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Hall of Famer [8386]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 3:21 PM
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Or, the smart posters don't care that "CBB is better than historical average". That's not a good enough reason to keep your job.
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Paw Warrior [5061]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 28, 2022, 10:28 AM
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Amen to that!
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Paw Warrior [5061]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 9:41 AM
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Your comparison is valid. I would move on from both.
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Valley Legend [12938]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 10:01 AM
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Plenty of ACC basketball teams all of which have much better basketball history than Clemson cycle through coaches trying to find the right guy. Nancy St is a great example. The only thing they achieve is debt from paying ex coaches.
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Commissioner [1269]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 10:21 AM
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Man what are you talking about. You always bring up NC State in this argument and it just isnt true. Going back to 1990 they have had five mens BB coaches. Les Robinson was made AD, they brought in Sendek who was on the hot seat (according to some) but actually accepted the ASU job and was NOT fired. Sydney Lowe came in and was fired, he made the NIT two out of five years. Gottfried was fired in 2017, in 2019 it came out that they were cheating and he received a no cause penalty and NC State was penalized. It might be a reach but I am assuming they might have known something was up when they canned him. Keats replaced him and he is still coaching.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 10:51 AM
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NC State's last ACC Championship was in 1987
35 Years ago.
And this is a program that has won two national titles. TWO. The could have made an argument of being an "elite" level program. Not anymore.
Since Herb, they have averaged finishing BEHIND Clemson in ACC regular season standings.
Brad Brownell has finished ahead of NC State in ACC standing more often than not.
Ironically, NC State has finished behind Clemson in ACC play/record and still got the NCAA invite over us in 2013-2014 (even if we also beat them in that same season).
Keatts just return in a season in his 5th season that is worse than any season BB seasons and WORSE than any of Shyatt's season.
In the past 10+ years, we have been a better and more stable program than NC State.
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Valley Legend [12938]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 10:59 AM
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You sir are leaving a trail of hurt feelings by stating facts so we need to transition back to conjecture, feelings and common narratives which are grossly incorrect (if you don't mind)
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Commissioner [1269]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world ] |
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Im not saying which program is better than the other. What I am saying is this persons constant argument of NC State cycling through coaches and paying them to leave is just false. They have had five coaches in 42 years and fired two of them.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 2:25 PM
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That would be the Wake Forest example. Although Dino has not helped their character case. Still, NCSU could fit here.
Les Robinson, while his record was not great, he had them coming back after a soft-self-death penalty. It hit in his second year and why he went from 20 wins to 12. It wasn't coaching. It was the loss of a heck of a lot of scholarships.
Herb was more of a impatient fanbase issue. He could have been their Jay Wright. But nope, they ran him out.
Lowe was just a bad decision that cost them money. Not a bad assistant and a good guy, just not a HC.
Next Gottfried's NCAA issues were not public or known until his departure. They fired him after a 30 and 50 point blowout to UNC. Maybe Admin got a wiff but that, to my knowledge happened on the exit not on the firing decision unless that was a deep internal knowledge thing. He was fired in 2/17, NCAA happened 5 months later. He gave NCSU a way to claw back some funds-ish but still, he was not fired for being a cheat.
Keatts, not sure as I think he will be a Robinson shrugoff.
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Paw Warrior [5061]
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Nc stste example - who cares?
May 28, 2022, 7:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world ] |
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Why is nc state the baseline that is used? While I don’t know if they have turned over too many coaches - I do know that when you expect more - your fan base and administration - will make changes when they don’t meet expectations. They don’t sit and spin for over a decade of not improving.
First, I don’t really care what nc state does. I care about Clemson.
I care that BB has had plenty of time and patience to do something, he has not.
I care more about Clemson’s more recent records than that of “historical” that people love to use as a measuring stick. BB has a worse record than OP.
I see GT win, FSU win, Miami win, ND win, VT get close, etc. (ACC).
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Dynasty Maker [3582]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 10:01 AM
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If you don’t see the difference, no need to even explain it .
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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The two situations aren't remotely comparable.
May 27, 2022, 12:12 PM
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Please try again.
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TigerNet Icon [153231]
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Because Monte Lee has won 64.2% of his games at Clemson...
May 27, 2022, 12:15 PM
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and Brad Brownell has won 56.8%?
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Ultimate Tiger [33255]
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They should both be unceremoniously fired. Today.***
May 27, 2022, 12:18 PM
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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You're better than this.
May 27, 2022, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Because Monte Lee has won 64.2% of his games at Clemson... ] |
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Clemson baseball is one of the top 10 winningest programs in NCAA history. Among ACC teams, that puts us third.
Clemson basketball is nowhere near being a top 10 winningest program in NCAA history, and we are arguably the worst program in ACC history.
Monte hasn't had any success in the NCAA Tournament while at Clemson. Brad has.
Again, the two situations are not comparable. But you know that.
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TigerNet Icon [153231]
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So the data I provided is incorrect?***
May 27, 2022, 3:17 PM
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Ring of Honor [22921]
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Looks a lot like an emotional response from JK, right?***
May 28, 2022, 6:24 PM
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Hall of Famer [8386]
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Re: You're better than this.
May 27, 2022, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to You're better than this. ] |
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If the historical basketball win% was 30%, and CBB was winning 35%, would that be enough reason to keep him?
Comparing the current coach's 12 years to 100 years of history is senseless and meaningless. Being "better than bad" is not a mark of success.
I sincerely hope those of you that apply this completely illogical measurement don't actually have any real-world business responsibilities.
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Game Changer [1683]
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Orange Blooded [2723]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 27, 2022, 2:47 PM
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Because Clemson baseball has a standard and Clemson basketball doesn’t.
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Valley Protector [1429]
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Re: If you can justify keeping Brownell how in the world
May 28, 2022, 7:03 PM
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I can promise you Duke and UNC ( the blue bloods of the ACC) almost always respect Coach BB. They know they have more talented team, but they know they are in for a fight. Not so much with Monte Lee. Granted ACC is a premier baseball conference but finishing like we did is inexcusable. At the minimum, the pitching coach needs to be shown the exit door.
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Replies: 42
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