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YOUR BALANCE
I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!
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Replies: 38  

I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 7, 2022, 10:52 PM
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I thought one of the cheapest repairs on a vehicle was replacing the water pump...150 bucks or so. But, took my wife's 2013 Ford Explorer in to get the water pump replaced, and was shocked to find out it would be at least $1800! Why, you ask? Because the water pump is inside the engine, driven by the timing chain instead of the serpentine belt!

The job takes 10-12 hours, they recommend changing the timing chain while in there. I found out that at the Ford dealership, it's a $3200 job, because they won't do it without replacing the four cams and cam phasers! Another added treat...the water may leak into the engine oil and ruin the engine!

There's a bunch of Ford's out there with this design...Explorers, Tauruses, Escapes, with the 3.5 or 3.7 liter, from about 2007 to 2016 or so! The idiot engineers that came up with this design should be horse whipped!

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 7, 2022, 11:01 PM
Reply

Bad to hear. Thanks for heads-up. I'll continue to avoid Ford's and American cars.

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I'm with u on fords


Oct 7, 2022, 11:45 PM
Reply

About the same as the first fuel pumps that were put in the gas tank then they built a car around then!

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 8, 2022, 10:06 AM
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that's a cool response. I've always liked the looks of those european cars.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 7, 2022, 11:05 PM
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It was done on purpose. It was designed to fail and it was their purposeful intention that it be as expensive as possible when it did fail. They had dozens of meetings about it over the course of several years when they were designing it. It had to be approved by multiple departments.
It is the business plan of choice for the majority of American businesses, “Rip Off The Customer”.
Vote with your dollars.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 7, 2022, 11:26 PM
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I think most car engines are the exact same. Water pump is internal.

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Re: Yep....Designed To Make You Cough Up Your Mortgage ---


Oct 7, 2022, 11:34 PM
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Even light bulbs are a $300 to $400 dollar jobs on some vehicles. Its gotten to be real ridiculous the way the cost of auto repair is these days.

Mechanics or should I say Technicians have to eat too but dang....can people really afford to continue to keep trying to own a vehicle by spending double for a vehicle and triple for repairs???

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Right! Wifes bmw headlight is 1500!


Oct 7, 2022, 11:49 PM
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I can get the knock off for 1200! I've already sent ty notes to the moguls for taking such good care of us! :)

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Re: Yep....Designed To Make You Cough Up Your Mortgage ---


Oct 8, 2022, 2:35 PM
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Very few mechanics around anymore, just parts replacers. Replace stuff until it works!

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I thought the same thing myself when I replaced my pump. Nissan


Oct 7, 2022, 11:39 PM
Reply

On a Maxima but after some u tube and Google I replaced it myself for about 120 bucks. My labor is free.
The price you said they quoted is pretty high. Sounds like they are trying to get you to about replace just everything behind the timing chain cover. When a dealer or high end shop has someone at the choke because the chain and pretty much every engine driven component is exposed due to work already being done really makes it is so easy for the customer to just say yes because it feels like telling a plastic surgeon not to remove a wart after a dog bite in the same area.
Realistically unless you have 300k plus on the explorer I would laugh at doing cam phasers, chain guides, timing chain, etc... even at 300k I wouldn't do anything but pump unless I saw unusual wear on chain or if the timing was off or something other that a little over heating.

And u are so right! Someone should be whipped with a wet towel for coming up with that! After I did mine I had to do 2 oil changes to get water out of oil.

Here link to kelly blue book on avg cost of parts and labor but I know a couple honest mechanics who would do it for 6 to 700.
https://www.kbb.com/ford/explorer/2013/water-pump-replacement/#:~:text=Taking%20all%20these%20points%20into,to%20get%20the%20best%20deal
.

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This Explorer has only 150K miles, but every Ytube video


Oct 8, 2022, 6:49 AM
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I found said the timing chain should be replaced. The parts aren't that expensive, about $300, but there was 13 hours labor at $120 per hour. That's where the shops are ripping us off...you know the mechanic isn't making over $30, so something like %60 per hour would be reasonable.

I talked to a long time acquaintance that owns a dealership, after another dealer told my wife $3200. The dealer I know said $3000, because they wouldn't do the job without replacing the cams and phasers. He said they had too many coming back when they didn't replace them, so they won't do them otherwise now. At least the Goodyear shop said they would only replace them if needed.

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Re: I thought the same thing myself when I replaced my pump. Nissan


Oct 8, 2022, 9:10 AM
Reply

TU TIGERFURLIFE!! Great post. I did not realize KBB will give you an idea on repairs in your area. The things you can learn Tigernet 👍


GO TIGERS!!!!!!

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Welcome to the world of Honda owners!


Oct 8, 2022, 12:22 AM
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Been this way since the 80’s. At least now, if the timing belt goes, it doesn’t result in the cylinders/valves destroying the head because of insufficient clearance. Was a no brainer to swap out the timing belt AND the water pump to save the labor costs.

Speaking of Fords, loved the Taurus Wagon back in the 90’s, but learned that the tranny oil line was undersized, resulting in overheating and failed trannys. The catch, it didn’t usually fail until 60K+ miles - out of warranty - which Ford knew; but they still refused to fix under warranty, even though it was an acknowledged design defect.

But still (and back to my beloved Hondas) rarely got less than 300K on all the Hondas I’ve owned since the mid 80’s. I never worried about hitting the road for a long trip, even though/if my Honda might have 200K on the odometer. Not so with most of the ‘domestics’ I owned/drove.

Sorry about the ridiculous cost on your Ford.

PS: Still have s Honda, plus a Toyota Tacoma. Think our next family/travel vehicle will be a Highlander. Daughter just got a ‘22 Highlander. VERY nice!

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Whatever choice(s) you make makes you. Choose wisely.


Re: Welcome to the world of Honda owners!


Oct 8, 2022, 6:01 AM
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Interesting you mention Hondas and transmissions. We had a '01 Oddyssey whise transmission failed at ~120k miles. We found out that the first few years of that generation of the Odyssey had insufficient transmission cooling. We sold it with 185km miles (I think) and a 2nd rebuilt transmission. Everything else about that van was spectacular, but the transmission was a real disappointment.

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I've long thought the engineering is calculated


Oct 8, 2022, 5:33 AM
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to require the most minor repairs costing an arm and a leg.

Especially now when the dealers have had a he1l of a time bringing in new vehicles for their lots. The service departments have been keeping most afloat.

After a recent $1400 brake job on my Camaro SS convertible, I had to have a minor reset on my top. I use the same dealership, so I teased the fellows by saying, "If you tell me this is gonna cost over $150, I'm gonna sell this sonuvab*tch and buy a scooter!" We laughed.....and my bill was $150. lmao.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 8, 2022, 7:01 AM
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All you need to know is that Ford and GM have sold out to the commie new green deal.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 8, 2022, 7:54 AM
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Try changing the plus on a 2002 Lexus. You have to take the wiper blades off to change the #3 plug. The auto parts wanted 67 a plug and coil, 310 for 6. A little over 100 on Amazon or eBay for the same ones. I wasn’t sure what a coil was…nothing like the points and condenser days. I had to just about had to take everything off to do it. I know why only the front three had been changed and the back ones might have been originals at 240,000 mile. What a design. Glad I did it, but it was a job. Thanks for YouTube.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 8, 2022, 7:54 AM
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My 2008 4runner and my 2011 Avalon continue to operate so smoothly as to make 'repairs' an issue that never comes up.

The 4runner is now our utility vehicle so it'll never see 300,000 miles which is sort of sad. I might ask that it be used as a hearse to take my ashes around America on one last ride when I'm gone.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 8, 2022, 8:13 AM
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Time for a trade in!

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I'll never own another Ford, unless it is a classic one. Not


Oct 8, 2022, 8:47 AM
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that I believe by any stretch that they are alone in designs like that. Water pump "kit" that I bought to replace the water pump on my 2007 GMC Canyon "trash hauler" truck that I bought on the cheap included the pump, a couple idler pulleys, and a new serpentine belt.

Two reasons I will never own another new Ford:

1) Lack of mechanical reliability. The last new Ford I will ever own was a 2012 Ford Focus. Nice looking little car, but it never got anywhere near what the sticker said for mileage (again not a problem confined to Fords, those mileage stickers all lie. They must test them on a downhill grade in the mountains.) The automatic transmission developed a shuddering slip, when the car had less than 10,000 miles on it. (WAY less than 10,000) They "fixed" it in under six hours at the dealership. This made me suspicious, so I went out and did a little research after the fact.

Turns out, this had been a known problem with Focus transmissions for almost FIVE YEARS! My wife had said there was a man in there while she was waiting to pick up hers that was bringing his Focus in for the third time for the same problem. As soon as I heard THAT, I decided that car had to leave my driveway. Traded it in for a slightly used 2014 Honda CRV. The CRV was utterly reliable, and held it's value comparatively well. As for Ford, a car company that does not fix a known design flaw after FIVE YEARS does not deserve my business.

2) Lack of resale value. I suspect this is directly tied into the lack of mechanical reliability. My last two experiences with new Ford cars. 1981 Ford Fairmont, bought brand new from the Ford dealership in North Charleston. Sticker was $7500, I think I paid $6600. I had to bore out the four cylinder engine and do a COMPLETE rebuild with 87,000 miles on it, completely shot. So, I go to try and trade it 3 weeks later, running and still looking like new, and they told me after the deduction for 4 cylinder engine, deduction for high mileage, and deduction for factory four speed floor shift transmission, it is worth less than $100. (I sold it to a nephew for $1200.)

2012 Ford Focus, traded at 18,000 miles. Known, although repaired (for how long? transmission issues). Now, I know enough about the used car market to know that anything under 20,000 miles commands a premium price. The Toyota dealership's first offer (where I bought the 2014 used CRV) was nearly THREE THOUSAND less than what I owed on the Focus. And I had put several thousand down when I bought the car new. Now, some of this was salesmanship on their part, but the best I could get out of them was break even on my loan, which is what I told them it would take in the beginning. (The Kelly website said it would be a small stretch to get there, I had checked it ahead of time). So, I was relieved to get out from under that thing without having any "upside down" charges added to the price of the CRV.

Now, I have no illusions whatsoever about recouping my investment on my latest vehicle. It is a 2020 GMC Acadia Denali. That thing literally cost almost twice as much as my first house. But, this time around, I said that, I am going to own a top of the line vehicle in it's class. And, it shirley is that. Two years in, I still don't think I have learned all the bells and whistles yet.

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DENALI SWEET


Oct 8, 2022, 9:25 AM
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I to have been looking to update my 2001 GMC Z71 with 196 miles with a Denali 2500 diesel or the AT4. Only due to thinking of buying a camper. Lord your right, it’s like buying a house. I don’t see pricing coming down anytime soon. And not to mention used car pricing.

GO TIGERS!!!

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I recently found a very nice 2018 Ram 2500 diesel for $39K


Oct 8, 2022, 9:47 AM
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Pretty much half what a new one would be! I think the Cummins diesels are hard to beat...this is my 3rd one. My previous 2008 had 320,000 miles on it and the biggest repair I ever had was an AC compressor...never any problem with engine, injectors or transmission. I was hoping to put 500,000 on it , but it got totaled two months ago.

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Man I used to own an Escape


Oct 8, 2022, 9:19 AM
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was a 2004 and an alternator cost $150 then, I can change it, but couldn't on there cuz I needed a hoist to drop the front axle and put it on the bottom of the engine on the passenger side. Screw that noise. I had to replace 3 of em on there at $500/per.

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We have reached the level of intelligence


Oct 8, 2022, 9:37 AM
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Where it takes an engineering degree to change your oil. Ain’t America great?
And now we are all being forced to buy electric cars. Suxs

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I foiled the factory at least once. I had a 2007 Honda


Oct 8, 2022, 12:35 PM
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Odyssey van, clutch on the A/C compressor went out. The factory service manual I had said you had to remove it from the car to replace the clutch. That would mean losing all the refrigerant, then paying somebody to vacuum the system and recharge it.

It wasn't easy, but I was able to replace the clutch by letting the compressor hang off to the side of the engine, still connected on the refrig hoses. It worked great, and I unplugged my nose in the general direction of the Honda factory service manual.

:)

(I WOULD say that only the most knowledgeable and dogged of DIY'ers should attempt such a thing. I have a lot of experience wrenching on autos, and a lot of specialized tools. You could almost say I felt like a great machine doing that stuff.)

:) :) :)

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Had similar experience on battery once!


Oct 8, 2022, 3:40 PM
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Hardtop convertible 3 series bmw. Beautiful car 80k on it and its a work if art when the trapeze styled top embarks on its journey to hide in the trunk. Unfortunately that is where the battery is and the battery light came on so me being a total diyer I started my journey.
Replacing requires removing panels from trunk to get the battery carriage off then putting it all back together. One problem though,... the battery is an AGM and has to be programmed before the first startup after installation. Huh? New technology for me at the time but now more common. The ecu learns the batteries consumption and other things making a recipe for the new battery to get fried by the computer telling the alternator to pump volts and amps into the new battery like it was the old one.
Programming tool 350 bucks and AGM battery 3 to 600.
Bmw wanted 1200 for entire job and 200 for a 5 minute program if I did my battery change myself but the chances of destroying the battery driving it there were way to high. Advance, auto zone, Napa, etc... wouldn't do it at all.
HALT (sorry deptula) were more expensive than BMW!
Batteries Plus had the battery and could program it. Free installation and only drawback was battery was marked up another 100 bucks but programming was 180 bucks. I went there and the young manager got everything ready so we went outside. He stared into my trunk and told me he nor any of his employees had ever done this type of installation or programming. I told him if he could find any discount at checkout I would show him how to do it. Took about an hr and I showed him how to take panels off and where the batteries vent lines go. Then he let me program it and the program device walked me thru every step.
We got back in and the young man found a half off coupon for the battery and didn't put the programming service on the bill. Cost less than what I thought a new battery would be on the low end!

I felt like u did 76! ### good feeling!
Wanted to call halt and BMW and tell them it didn't take there combined 3593 yrs experience to rip me off for 1200 bucks because they had a 350 dollar battery programmer.

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My 2007 Chevy Avalanche originally came with a "low profile"


Oct 10, 2022, 9:27 AM
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battery. You guessed it, about twice as expensive as a regular top post battery. I took it to my trusted auto electrician, who also sold batteries. He told me that was factory bs, and showed me why. You have to take a little corner brace off to get the battery out, but after that, replacement is a breeze, and the brace only has four easily accessible bolts. When a REGULAR sized top post battery is installed, and bolted down with the "keeper" on the bottom so that it cannot move around, it still clears that brace by a good inch or more.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 8, 2022, 1:17 PM
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I guess I have been lucky. I've owned 4 Ford trucks, and except for a design flaw for the slave cylinder on my manual, Ive never (knock on wood) had any big issues. Of the 4 trucks, I have put on 800k miles. Yeah, had to replace some pieces and was able to do myself. Also had one of the first builds on a Saturn, 2 Chevy ventures (450k miles), and a Subaru (175k miles).

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Wow....that is awful! I am so sorry.


Oct 8, 2022, 1:18 PM
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Unhappy surprises.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 8, 2022, 1:21 PM
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What did you expect when you bought a Ford?

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Whatd u expect u bought a Ford? U haven't done ur research


Oct 8, 2022, 4:07 PM
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Many fords have made use of some of the best engines around the world. This is off the top of my head but I could research and name alot more.
In the 80s the bronco and rangers imported Mitsubishi engines that are still running if kept properly and not totaled.
Also rangers from early 2000s to 2015ish 4 cylinders are essentially Mazda with the duratec engines and owning one I can say its an ultra reliable vehicle.
My parents had a Ford LSC with a BMW 5 cylinder turbo diesel in it from the factory.
The probe had a Mazda engine that was pretty good.
There are always exceptions and definitely want to steer clear of any first run models or even models with new generation engines and transmissions but thats with every Make vehicle around.
If your a Nascar fan and just don't like a make cause u pull for a certain driver I could understand that but all makes have their crap and their good. Just gotta research all recalls, major to minor issues, etc... but always stay away from first runs if any model or generations.

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I agree with you on staying away from the first runs and


Oct 8, 2022, 6:13 PM
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model changes. When looking for another truck recently and ended up with the 2018 Ram w/Cummins diesel, which has a great reputation, I found out that both Ram and Chevy Duramax went to a a newer version of their Bosch injection pump in 2019, and both brands were having problems with the 2019 and 2020 injection pumps basically exploding inside and getting metal fines into the injectors and engine!

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Re: I agree with you on staying away from the first runs and


Oct 8, 2022, 7:02 PM
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FORD …., Fix Or Repair Daily.

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Found On Road Dead!


Oct 10, 2022, 9:18 AM
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I've had a few good fords, about average for American cars.

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Yeah, well, they are correct.


Oct 10, 2022, 9:07 AM
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I'd recommend you pick up the pump from the stealership and have the other guy do it for 1800 bucks. The last thing you want is a repeat cause from buying a pump from someone besides the stealer. Trust me on this, I did my Infinity with an after market pump and replace it just a year or so later. It's inside the engine too.

I got a look at the setup on youtube and it's a monster job for your vehicle. I can do it but I would never do it for another. I have the tools which is uncommon for someone who doesn't make a living at this stuff but that job would take me weeks, not hours being that I'm super sensitive about perfect and can't find half my tools without a winded search.

I'm not sure I wouldn't sell the car as junk. The simple, but dishonest, way to deal with this is a pint of denatured alcohol poured in the dash and a lit match. Do not use gas or any petro, the sniffers will detect long that after the fire. <img border=">

I agree, somebody should be shot but I'm not so quick to blame engineers. I'd blame Ford Motor Company. I'd blame you if you ever bought another Ford.

You might change your mind about the price of repair/replacement of the water pump when you skip through this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMvnWMZMKX0

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Oh, I've already looked at several videos. But the difference


Oct 10, 2022, 11:51 PM
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in price from dealership vs independent wasn't the price of the pump. The dealership I spoke with wouldn't do the job without also replacing all four cams and cam phasers...which are about $800. The dealership insisted on replacing them, whether needed or not! The independent shop said they would inspect them and replace them if needed. The car only has 150,000 on it.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 10, 2022, 1:47 PM
Reply

I took my 2004 Sport Trac to a Ford dealership for a state inspection. They failed it due to the cab bushings had rotted out. They claimed that they would have to order new bushings and it would take around a week to receive them. They said it is an 8 hour job and the parts cost $800, so total cost is around $2000. I had them put the failed inspection sticker on, which gave me a week to make repairs. I left the truck with my son-in-law, who ordered nylon bushings from Rock Auto for less than $200. They arrive a couple of days later and it took him around three hours to replace the bushings. I drove back to the dealership for a followup inspection. They were not happy when they gave the keys back, but the new inspection sticker was on the windshield.

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 11, 2022, 12:49 AM
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As a retired Auto Instructor and car restorer . . You think that design is only a Ford thing? LOL

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Re: I discovered a shocker from the auto shop this week!


Oct 11, 2022, 1:59 AM
Reply

900 for an ac hose. I would have changed it myself but you had to have a lift to get to it. One and done with them. Sad part is they would have got some more business from me.


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