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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Fun with stats
Mar 30, 2022, 10:41 PM
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I just found out you can export season result data from Sports Reference and there were quite a few interesting stats that I looked up.
It looks like the haters might be onto something w/ Brownell and close games. Below are win % in games decided by 1 possession (including overtime games).
OP Clemson Career: 25-23 52% (28.57 vs ranked opponents) Last 4 years: 17-14 54.84% (33% vs RO)
BB Clemson Career: 34-52 39.53% (23.53% vs RO) Last 5 years: 15-18 45.45% (28.57 vs RO)
Here's another interesting stat... I thought we had such a better home court advantage under OP?
OP Career AT HOME vs. Ranked Opponents: 5-12 at 29.41%
BB Career AT HOME vs. Ranked Opponents: 15-17 at 46.88%
OP Last 4 years AT HOME vs. Ranked Opponents: 5-12 at 28.57%
BB Last 4 years AT HOME vs. Ranked Opponents: 8-6 at 57.14%
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 30, 2022, 10:46 PM
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It was formatted way better on pc. Tough to read on mobile.
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All-TigerNet [11481]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 31, 2022, 7:02 AM
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Why do you always like to used wins over ranked opponents. Doesn't that describe a lot concerns under Brad, he gets a lot of upsets, but doesn't win enough of the ones they are expected to win to get in more post season tourneys. What is reason for those type of records against ranked teams but still only make the NCAATs in just three times in 12 years?
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Legend [18851]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 31, 2022, 7:04 AM
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Totally agree!! It is those losses that drive me insane and can someone find stats on how we are in close games?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 31, 2022, 8:51 AM
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Can you read?
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Freshman [-79]
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I read it.
Mar 31, 2022, 11:44 AM
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We may have some nice wins in 12 years, but they are outweighed by bad losses, losing streaks, and not making the tournament.
Again, you cannot convince me that Brad's body of work is worthy of the 38th highest salary in America. If we're going to pay someone on that level, we should demand results on that level.
Brad is a great dude and has done everything right.. except win enough games. Is that too much to ask?
He was gifted another year simply because of the change at AD. While I'm hoping for (finally!) some consistency, I'm struggling to have confidence that the 12-year dataset will change. I truly hope so, but....
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All-In [44048]
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The problem is that many of you aren’t consistent in applying that standard.
Mar 31, 2022, 8:33 PM
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For example, last year we finished 5th in the ACC and were the 27th ranked team by the NCAA Tournament selection committee. Since he’s the 6th-7th highest paid ACC coach, and about 40th overall, last year was an overachieving year (and considering that it was before this most recent raise, it was a very overachieving year since he was about the 9th highest paid ACC coach and about 50th overall.
Yet how many of you acknowledged that? In fact, you didn’t even acknowledge it as an acceptable year. No, you guys griped and complained about how awful he is.
Be consistent in how you apply that standard, rather than the same tired “He’s paid too much” trope.
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Freshman [-79]
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Is $2.6M too much for 38th?
Mar 31, 2022, 11:54 PM
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No. But we're not finishing in the top 40. Maybe twice.
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Freshman [-79]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 31, 2022, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Fun with stats ] |
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In non-ranked games, there isn't much disparity at all.
Brad brownell career winning percentage vs non-ranked teams: 200-111 64.31%
OP career winning % vs. non ranked teams: 130-57 69.52%.
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Freshman [-79]
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That's a significantly different win %.***
Mar 31, 2022, 11:45 AM
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All-In [44048]
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Oliver also got to play a lot more subpar unranked teams.
Mar 31, 2022, 4:28 PM
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Weaker ACC under Purnell, plus more non-conference games (most of which were against unranked teams).
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Freshman [-79]
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Can you please provide the data behind all that?***
Mar 31, 2022, 8:13 PM
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Legend [16908]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 31, 2022, 8:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: Fun with stats ] |
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Why do you always like to used wins over ranked opponents. Doesn't that describe a lot concerns under Brad, he gets a lot of upsets, but doesn't win enough of the ones they are expected to win to get in more post season tourneys. What is reason for those type of records against ranked teams but still only make the NCAATs in just three times in 12 years?
What do you have to say about OPs dismal performance vs. ranked teams? To me, this aligns with my opinion that OP's style couldn't win in big games. If the team had a good PG, we didn't have much of a chance. This is why he didn't have an NCAA win in his entire coaching career.
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All-TigerNet [11481]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 31, 2022, 2:50 PM
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Why do you always like to used wins over ranked opponents. Doesn't that describe a lot concerns under Brad, he gets a lot of upsets, but doesn't win enough of the ones they are expected to win to get in more post season tourneys. What is reason for those type of records against ranked teams but still only make the NCAATs in just three times in 12 years? What do you have to say about OPs dismal performance vs. ranked teams? To me, this aligns with my opinion that OP's style couldn't win in big games. If the team had a good PG, we didn't have much of a chance. This is why he didn't have an NCAA win in his entire coaching career.
I'd like to see what Brad's record in ranked games/ to how many NCAATs he has been to compared to other coaches who have coached about 12 years or so with more NCAATs. Brad has probably a small ratio. Again, it's a small thin like of times he has gone vs not, but still not as good as it needs to be...
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All-In [44048]
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Well, because basketball is different.
Mar 31, 2022, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Fun with stats ] |
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You play 30-35 games a year. You travel more. And you have fewer players. All of these things impact the ability of teams to consistently beat teams they are “supposed” to beat.
This isn’t football where you tend to see fewer upsets.
Basketball teams are, by nature, consistently inconsistent. It is the reason why St. Peter’s can beat Kentucky. But if Kentucky and St. Peter’s played 10 times, we all know that the Wildcats would win most of them.
Kentucky losing that game doesn’t make Calipari a bad coach, nor does it make Shaheen Holloway a great coach. It’s basketball and that kind of thing happens.
You talk about Brad losing a lot of games he shouldn’t. What is that based on? Why do you feel that we are supposed to beat those teams?
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Legend [16259]
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Re: Well, because basketball is different.
Mar 31, 2022, 12:43 PM
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The reason it feels like we fall short and underperform, consistently, under Brownell, is because we do. The OP's numbers on Brad's record in close games are the crux of the matter - he gets outcoached in end games since he's been coaching at the ACC level. Your claim on the 'consistent inconsistencies' as the nature of basketball is reasonable, yet it only serves to prove out Brad's 'consistent' failures here - historically near last or dead last among his league peers. As you stated, over a number of games in a Kentucky / St. Peters scenario the cream rises to the top and KY wins most of those. In Brad's case, well, he loses the majority of close games, consistently, as the black and white numbers illustrate.
I don't know what underlies this consistent shortcoming. Does he panic? I've been frustrated many times in the past where Brad will slow our tempo down when trying to nurse a lead, similar to employing a prevent defense, only to see it backfire. As many have pointed out in the past, Brad seems to struggle managing game flow as we get into crunch time. He makes adjustments to the team's rhythm that, over time, has shown itself to be a real problem in finishing on the right side of the margin.
I'm serious about Brad needing to attend a rhythm boot camp or something this offseason to help him find his inner groove - help him get out of his own way. He checks a lot of boxes as a coach, and there's a lot to like about him otherwise, but coaching end games has shown to be a fatal flaw, and relative to his overall record, shows little if any growth over his tenure. It costs us those extra wins we need to make post-seasons. It costs us wins IN the post-season, where teams are more likely to play closer game as the matchups get more even (see ACC tournament record). Ultimately it will cost Brad his job here.
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All-In [44048]
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These are all valid points.
Mar 31, 2022, 3:11 PM
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My question on the end of game record is this:
Are we losing most of those games to teams we are supposed to beat, or are we losing them to teams that we aren't supposed to beat?
On the one hand, if we are losing too many close games to teams that, on paper, shouldn't beat us, that's a huge concern.
But on the other hand, if most of those close losses are to teams that we aren't supposed to beat, then that's not nearly as bad. In fact, you can argue that a close loss to most ACC teams shows that he took a less talented team and made them competitive/put them in position to win.
Obviously, our goal is to start winning more close games, regardless of the opponent. I do feel that Brad has us very competitive in general, which is a testament to his coaching and game planning. I don't disagree that he can improve in some areas.
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Legend [16259]
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These numbers stood out to me because they put
Mar 31, 2022, 8:16 PM
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into stats, and there's no lack of those these days, the 'feeling' that we tend to be on the wrong side of close games too often, against whomever, whenever, and that Brad has a tough time outcoaching his peers in the tight ones, at least since he's been here.
Versus Horizon and Colonial staffs, he crushed it, just trailing very healthy overall records. Since coming to the ACC and taking on the top of the game guys, with better OOC to boot, this measure no longer aligns with his past nor rates as even middling where he is now. I truly wish that were different. If Brad had brought that trait with him here we would be rocking and rolling and having very different discussions about Tiger basketball.
My only suggestion for the season ahead...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSsdW0z5lbA
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All-In [44048]
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Brad didn’t forget how to coach.
Mar 31, 2022, 8:29 PM
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The difference is that he is at a huge disadvantage at Clemson compared to most of the other ACC teams. The fact that he’s done as well as he has is a testament to the coach he is.
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110%er [9724]
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Again…
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Mar 31, 2022, 8:46 PM
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If his attitude is anything like yours, that is a major problem.
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Legend [16259]
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Re: Brad didn’t forget how to coach.
Mar 31, 2022, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to Brad didn’t forget how to coach. ] |
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No he didn't. But at the ACC level, he is now getting outcoached. He checks lots of boxes but going mano a mano against the top of the game has revealed his shortcomings in winning in the clutch. Twelve years in the making if there is any disadvantage it is one of his own making. This is what the Peter Principle looks like on the hardwood.
I disagree strongly with your take on our talent level, and their shortcomings in winning more games for Coach Brownell. I see him letting them down too often, coaching their hard work and never quit and grit into losses when it's his turn to lead. He recruits well and replaces lost recruits well. Never faulted him there. He's just overmatched in gamesmanship. Don't take it personally.
Go Tigers.
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All-In [44048]
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My point is that it's unfair to blame coaching for a close
Apr 1, 2022, 1:57 PM
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loss if that coach is at a talent disadvantage.
It's not simply about an arbitrary record in close games. Those games should be viewed in context.
Basketball is a pretty simple game. Top teams aren't doing much more sophisticated stuff than mid-major teams, other than the fact that they have more talented players to work with. At the end of the day, the more talented team is going to beat the less talented team more often than not. The good coach can help close that gap, and give his less talented team a chance to win, but ultimately it is the players who have to make plays. More talented players have a better chance of doing that.
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Legend [16259]
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There you go again trashing our players.
Apr 1, 2022, 2:34 PM
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Just like Papa B does when a game goes south for him. It's very unbecoming of a Clemson man, or woman.
It is April now and time to turn the page. Have a nice spring.
Go Tigers.
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Freshman [-79]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Well, because basketball is different.
Apr 1, 2022, 8:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Well, because basketball is different. ] |
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The reason it feels like we fall short and underperform, consistently, under Brownell, is because we do. The OP's numbers on Brad's record in close games are the crux of the matter - he gets outcoached in end games since he's been coaching at the ACC level. Your claim on the 'consistent inconsistencies' as the nature of basketball is reasonable, yet it only serves to prove out Brad's 'consistent' failures here - historically near last or dead last among his league peers. As you stated, over a number of games in a Kentucky / St. Peters scenario the cream rises to the top and KY wins most of those. In Brad's case, well, he loses the majority of close games, consistently, as the black and white numbers illustrate.
I don't know what underlies this consistent shortcoming. Does he panic? I've been frustrated many times in the past where Brad will slow our tempo down when trying to nurse a lead, similar to employing a prevent defense, only to see it backfire. As many have pointed out in the past, Brad seems to struggle managing game flow as we get into crunch time. He makes adjustments to the team's rhythm that, over time, has shown itself to be a real problem in finishing on the right side of the margin.
I'm serious about Brad needing to attend a rhythm boot camp or something this offseason to help him find his inner groove - help him get out of his own way. He checks a lot of boxes as a coach, and there's a lot to like about him otherwise, but coaching end games has shown to be a fatal flaw, and relative to his overall record, shows little if any growth over his tenure. It costs us those extra wins we need to make post-seasons. It costs us wins IN the post-season, where teams are more likely to play closer game as the matchups get more even (see ACC tournament record). Ultimately it will cost Brad his job here.
I believe OPs teams and their terrible free throw shooting was much worse than brownell's record in close games.
If you read the stats they tell you that out of 10 close games, Purnell would win 1 extra game. That's probably 1-2 extra wins a season. Also, the last 5 years, BB has significantly improved
Purnell's teams lost more than that in their crap free throw shooting.
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110%er [9724]
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Yes, that is a lot of fun!!!
1
Mar 31, 2022, 7:41 AM
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Even better than watching the actual games.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Yes, that is a lot of fun!!!
Mar 31, 2022, 10:25 AM
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Even better than watching the actual games.
Quick question..... which basketball game would you enjoy more?
Clemson loses a close game to a ranked team under OP
Clemson wins a close close game to a ranked team under brownell.
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110%er [9724]
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Respectfully, that’s not a very good question.
1
Mar 31, 2022, 11:09 AM
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We’re talking about the overall excitement and energy around the program.
If you want to talk about one single game in a vacuum, then of course you would rather win.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Respectfully, that’s not a very good question.
Mar 31, 2022, 11:30 AM
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Ok. And since we have won on a very similar level to OP (with even more and bigger wins), it's not about the winning.
You just like the full court press? You like teams with hectic offensive sets? You just don't like brownell as a person? I don't understand.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Respectfully, that’s not a very good question.
Mar 31, 2022, 4:10 PM
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Purnell built a trajectory over his tenure. It plateaued at the end but over his tenure we had reason to buy in and be enthusiastic. Brownell tanked the program in two years, wallowed in mediocrity for 5, saved himself with one miracle season and now bobs up and down around whatever Mendoza line the AD has given him for his continued employment. You and the rest of the Brad Brownell Bros can’t actually be basketball fans because it is f*cking miserable being a Clemson basketball fan now. Defending him is purely a thought exercise or trolling. It’s switch debate positions at the last second to try and score one last point. But you win for now. One more year at least to there is any chance Clemson basketball possibly does anything of note.
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110%er [6099]
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wonder what conference vs non conference looks like***
Mar 31, 2022, 9:25 AM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: wonder what conference vs non conference looks like***
Mar 31, 2022, 10:58 AM
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Career conference record:
BB: 47.19%
OP: 43.44%
Career non-conference record: OP only played 3 ranked non-conference teams. BB has gone against 13. BB has played significantly tougher non-conference teams.
BB: 71.24%
OP: 81.73%
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110%er [6099]
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Thanks, So I think, if you look at it through that lens, BB
Mar 31, 2022, 11:17 AM
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is at least equal to or perhaps better coach the OP.
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110%er [9724]
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LOL. Feels like an episode of Blues Clues.
1
Mar 31, 2022, 12:58 PM
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This is pathetic.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: wonder what conference vs non conference looks like***
Mar 31, 2022, 3:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: wonder what conference vs non conference looks like*** ] |
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This shows exactly why Brownell lacks the success here. The formula is simple: win the OOC games and play .500 ball in the ACC to make the tournament. Brad has had 12 years to do that and can’t. We play ourselves out of the tourney before January.
You ACC win percentage is also heavily flawed due to OP inheriting a trash heap from Shyatt while Brad was handed a tourney team. If you remove year one for both then:
BB: 47.5%
OP: 49%
Feel free to drop in a count of games played as a ranked team. Purnell has more than Brownell - and that is why fans recognize the dip in our program. We were nationally relevant. The sweet sixteen was a great accomplishment, but we returned 4 starters to miss the tourney. It was more of a fluke a lucky seeding than reality of great program building by Brownell
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All-In [44048]
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A .500 ACC record these days isn’t nearly enough to make the Big Dance.
Mar 31, 2022, 4:32 PM
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It’s a lot harder now than it used to be. In the ‘90s, we went 7-9 in the ACC under Rick Barnes - twice - and got into the tournament both times.
Now, with more conference games and the rise of mid-majors, making the dance is a lot harder.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: A .500 ACC record these days isn’t nearly enough to make the Big Dance.
Mar 31, 2022, 7:55 PM
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You are blisteringly stupid. You got in at 7-9 because it was harder to win games then. The tournament hasn’t gotten harder to get into. The ACC is easier and you offer the proof as evidence to the contrary.
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All-In [40777]
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Anyone who thinks the program under Brownell is better than
Mar 31, 2022, 10:00 AM
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it was under OP is in blatant denial. Anyone who thinks the current state of the program is better than the one Brad inherited is just being plain biased. There are a lot of things that can be argued about the basketball program but this fact is not one of them.
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110%er [9724]
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Bingo. They can crunch all the numbers they want
1
Mar 31, 2022, 10:03 AM
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to try and convince us that we should like it.
But there’s no substitute for what our eyes see and what our hearts feel. That’s the real stuff.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Anyone who thinks the program under Brownell is better than
Mar 31, 2022, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to Anyone who thinks the program under Brownell is better than ] |
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What basketball "Program" under OP?
Siriously?
OP did take us from a last-place joke to mid table.... (if you excuse the NCAA snubs/first round exit meme). Fine
But what did he do for the program? Nada. Did he build us beyond beyond 1 NBA level kid? Nope Did he stick. Nope. Darting for DePaul could have done more damage to our rep than Shayatt did. We got lucky to a point. Heck, his "all-star" recruits were nothing by a paper cutout of one. Really, it was OP's program in a clemson uni, not a clemson program coached by OP.
Brad might not be the coach to get us to the next level, but dang, he stopped massive open wound that OP gifted us at a bad time. He has kept us treading water in a environment that has seen a lot of the power conference lesser schools fade into obscurity.
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110%er [9724]
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It was fun when OP was the coach.
1
Mar 31, 2022, 10:11 AM
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And that’s kinda what most fans are looking for in sports.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: It was fun when OP was the coach.
Mar 31, 2022, 10:30 AM
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I rather win more, keep building.
Fun? Only at times. Running up the score against the BigSouth? Sure. The 1-2 times we knocked off Duke=. Ok.
It wasn't fun watching a team figure out OP in the first 5 minutes and just going up on a layup drill. See Georgia Tech layup party. I mean they were DEAD LAST in conference. It wasn't fun when we were ranked for the first time in forever in 2007 and then getting scrubbed by UNC by 20. Then it happened again when ranked 10th (finally) and then getting run off the court by UNC by 24. It wasn't fun watching a team being completely unable to run a 1/2 court game.
We would be riding high through a weak OOC and then see the start of ACC play going 5-11
Folks complained about BB being one-and-done in the ACC, but OP was 2-5 on the ACC's first day.
Hey, OP made a junk not junky post Shyatt. Making the kids press was interesting when new. By 2009... it was not evolving and just a gimmick. That is why after beating Duke a few times with Booker, in 2010, they OBLITERATED US. Their combined win differential (34 points) was closer to our 47 point output.
OP would at least let fans know in the first 5 minutes if they were even going to be competitive, so folks filed out early. Brad might not win but he will keep us in the game and give us a chance. Unfortunately, you have to watch mathematics happen to know the result.
Oh look, GT just got another layup.
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110%er [9724]
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I’m just one person, but I think a lot of Clemson fans feel the same way.
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Mar 31, 2022, 11:19 AM
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I actually looked forward to watching the games when OP was here. Sure, they didn’t always go well. No one ever claimed we won them all.
But we had a unique style, and basketball was exciting.
I would just rather have that instead of looking over stats and convincing myself that it’s good.
I love Clemson and I’m loyal to anything Clemson. But in this context, we’re talking about being sports fans.
And if I have to be convinced that something is good, then it’s just not worth it. I’ll spend my entertainment time and money on something that I think is good and enjoyable.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I’m just one person, but I think a lot of Clemson fans feel the same way.
Mar 31, 2022, 11:33 AM
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I'm not saying they are good.
Most posters on here loved Purnell and hate brownell. It makes 0 sense to me because they have very similar win% and other numbers. Brownell has won way more big games and been further in the tournament.
Literally the only drastic difference is that OP played extremely weak non conference schedules which padded his win total.
If you love beating up on #### teams, then OP was for you!
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110%er [9724]
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Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
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Mar 31, 2022, 11:36 AM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
Mar 31, 2022, 11:52 AM
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Ok. And brownell has beat more Ranked ACC teams, and has a greater ACC win % than purnell.
So what you are saying is that you would be more entertained if we lost more, but had OP as our coach.
Embarrassing.
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110%er [9724]
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Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
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Mar 31, 2022, 12:01 PM
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What is embarrassing is that you have to show people a page full of numbers to try and convince them that basketball in the Brownell era is good.
That’s probably a pretty good sign that it’s just not there. There is no energy. I applaud your efforts, though. Maybe the Biden admin will hire you to convince people the economy is good.
If I want to pore over a page of statistics, I’ll spend that time on my stock portfolio.
For fun, I watch sports.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
Mar 31, 2022, 12:24 PM
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What is embarrassing is that you have to show people a page full of numbers to try and convince them that basketball in the Brownell era is good.
That’s probably a pretty good sign that it’s just not there. There is no energy. I applaud your efforts, though. Maybe the Biden admin will hire you to convince people the economy is good.
If I want to pore over a page of statistics, I’ll spend that time on my stock portfolio.
For fun, I watch sports.
Na, what is actually embarrassing is that I have to remind these statistics because you are too butthurt to notice that brownell has a higher ACC win % and a way more ranked wins.
Just type out this sentence...... it's ok for you to type the truth even though it damages your widdle emotions.
"Clemson's team under OP was way more fun to watch, even though brownell won at a higher rate, and won more big games"
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110%er [9724]
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Okay. May I ask you a favor?
1
Mar 31, 2022, 12:31 PM
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Throughout the next basketball season, can you send me emails periodically with a whole bunch of statistics and explain to me why it’s such a wonderful season.
The more numbers and decimal points, the better.
That actually sounds like so much fun!
Also…can you type out the following sentence?
“Oliver Purnell was a really good basketball coach for Clemson, but I still don’t like it because he is black and that made me a little uncomfortable.”
There. Feel better now?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Okay. May I ask you a favor?
Mar 31, 2022, 12:35 PM
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Throughout the next basketball season, can you send me emails periodically with a whole bunch of statistics and explain to me why it’s such a wonderful season.
The more numbers and decimal points, the better.
That actually sounds like so much fun!
Also…can you type out the following sentence?
“Oliver Purnell was a really good basketball coach for Clemson, but I still don’t like it because he is black and that made me a little uncomfortable.”
There. Feel better now?
Why do you always play the race card? It's not funny, and you are are just being an unhinged lib.
I've never said any of those seasons were wonderful or great. The only "great" season we had under either coach would be the sweet 16 run, and I still could have been much better.
Here is what I'll say about Purnell.
Purnell did a good job at Clemson getting us out of the gutter from the shyatt years. He never won anything significant.
There you go! Now it's time for your statement on record.
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110%er [9724]
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Yeah I’m a lib. LOL
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Mar 31, 2022, 12:40 PM
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And you conveniently forget the ACC tournament run.
I know… after 12 years of Brad, it’s easy to forget that tournament still exists. But it does.
I’d say beating Duke in the semifinal and then going toe-to-toe with a great UNC team in the championship was pretty good.
Member that?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Yeah I’m a lib. LOL
Mar 31, 2022, 3:01 PM
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THE ACC YOURNAMENT RUN!?!?! We beat a crap team and then beat Duke. that's what happened. Purnell has 1 significant ACC tourney victory in 7 years. Brownell has 0 in 12. What's your point? Both are bad and 1 is slightly better than the other.
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110%er [9724]
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Okay.
1
Mar 31, 2022, 3:13 PM
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Would you like to break down the amazing sweet 16 run that we hear so much about?
We beat someone (can’t even remember who) and then basketball superpower Auburn??? Hmmm… wowwwww…
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Okay.
Mar 31, 2022, 6:12 PM
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Surely.
We beat a 12 seed in New Mexico State (Purnell lost to a 12 seed) and then beat 4 seed Auburn. We also took 1 seed, Kansas down to the wire.
Purnell on the other hand beat a crappy BC team that previously lost 12 of 14. Then beat a good Duke team. He also played UNC very well. Unfortunately we only hit 53% of our free throws that game. I remember being so frustrated because we outplayed them but lost with feee throws. Coincidentally, that year he lost to a 12 seed in the first round.
Purnell unfortunately couldn't beat a single team against lower seeds in 3 tries. But at least those games were entertaining, right?
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110%er [9724]
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So…at least you admit
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Mar 31, 2022, 8:27 PM
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they were very similar paths on the tournament runs. With just two glaring differences:
1. One of them made it to a championship game
2. Beating Duke was way better than beating a 4th seeded Auburn team.
Thanks for playing.
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CU Guru [1157]
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Re: Okay. May I ask you a favor?
Mar 31, 2022, 3:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Okay. May I ask you a favor? ] |
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What he if he had 12 years of not winning anything significant? Would he be a good coach then?
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All-In [44048]
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Are you saying that Brad hasn’t won anything significant?
Mar 31, 2022, 7:25 PM
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He has a Sweet 16, he beat UNC in Chapel Hill, and he also won the World University Games.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Are you saying that Brad hasn’t won anything significant?
Mar 31, 2022, 7:38 PM
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Brad Brownell hasn’t won anything significant. None of those things are significant. They could have been milestones on the way to something significant but he wasn’t good enough to build on them. They are and will remain his peaks.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Are you saying that Brad hasn’t won anything significant?
Mar 31, 2022, 9:58 PM
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Brad Brownell hasn’t won anything significant. None of those things are significant. They could have been milestones on the way to something significant but he wasn’t good enough to build on them. They are and will remain his peaks.
You aren't a Clemson basketball fan if you don't think the win at chapel hill was significant.
Other than that win, I agree with you. Neither did Purnell.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Are you saying that Brad hasn’t won anything significant?
Apr 1, 2022, 12:06 AM
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In what context? That’s significant to us for all the wrong reasons. I’m glad it’s over but you don’t flex over no longer having the longest “active” single site losing streak in college sports, especially when it’s still the longest, period. As a signifier of growth and direction of the program it is now well proven to have meant nothing.
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110%er [9724]
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LOL.
1
Mar 31, 2022, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to Are you saying that Brad hasn’t won anything significant? ] |
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So…
1. Beat New Mexico State, and then an average Auburn team.
2. Beat one of the weakest UNC teams of all time.
3. I can only assume you aren’t serious about the “world university games”…so we won’t even get into that one.
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All-In [32653]
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#3 - yeah - no doubt - his troll bait slipped way too deep
Apr 1, 2022, 2:22 PM
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on that . . . too easy to spot the leader wire.
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Freshman [-79]
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Embarrassing?
Mar 31, 2022, 2:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.*** ] |
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Slice it anyway you want, but there was much more excitement and better attended games during OP's tenure. Plus, you can throw around all the numbers you want, but why did we make the Touney more under OP? Seems we were deemed a better team then as opposed to now. Maybe you could look up RPI's? I'm willing to bet OP's were ranked higher in spite of the numbers you posted here, and I personally think OP's best teams would run BB's best teams out of the gym.
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All-TigerNet [11481]
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Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
Mar 31, 2022, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.*** ] |
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Lol. At some of your stats. You do realized Brad has been at Clemson almost twice as OP has? Lol
Again. The difference is consistency. When Brad goes to three NCAAT in 3 out of four years like OP, Barnes and Ellis wake me up...lol
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
Mar 31, 2022, 3:04 PM
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Lol. At some of your stats. You do realized Brad has been at Clemson almost twice as OP has? Lol
Again. The difference is consistency. When Brad goes to three NCAAT in 3 out of four years like OP, Barnes and Ellis wake me up...lol
Try to keep up NC Tig. I also added % as well. Why is BB's ACC win% better than OP? Why is BB's win % against ranked teams significantly better than OP?
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
Mar 31, 2022, 4:02 PM
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Why if you throw out the first season’s record for both us OP’s win percentage better than Brownell?
Why did OP’s teams play more games as a ranked team than Brownell has in 12 seasons?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Nah, I liked the ACC games as well.***
Apr 1, 2022, 8:11 AM
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Why if you throw out the first season’s record for both us OP’s win percentage better than Brownell?
Why did OP’s teams play more games as a ranked team than Brownell has in 12 seasons?
I don't know. My guess would be that he would pad his resume playing crappy teams in the non-conference.
Also, don't forget that we now play 4 more conference games. So take out 4 non-conference gimme wins each year and replace them with 4 tough ACC games.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It was fun when OP was the coach.
Mar 31, 2022, 10:49 AM
[ in reply to It was fun when OP was the coach. ] |
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Can you explain why you enjoyed so much more? The wins and results are very close.
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110%er [9724]
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Yes.***
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Mar 31, 2022, 11:24 AM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Anyone who thinks the program under Brownell is better than
Mar 31, 2022, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to Anyone who thinks the program under Brownell is better than ] |
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Well considering after year 1, BB was left with not much talent.
I would 100% rather have the talent on next years team than we did under brownell in year 2.
That is a fact
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All-In [40777]
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Year 2? Really? That’s the basis for your argument?
Mar 31, 2022, 12:22 PM
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You act like a BB coach has to fill an 85 man roster. What about year 1 with OP’s players? What about years 3&4? OP didn’t leave him an empty cupboard with a program in decline. It’s obvious that BB’s recruiting and development couldn’t maintain the program he was handed and that’s not even debatable.
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All-In [44048]
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Perhaps you should go back and look at the roster Brad was left with in year two.
Mar 31, 2022, 8:40 PM
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Beyond Stitt and Grant, all Purnell left Brownell was a few serviceable players like Andre Young and Tanner Smith. Not much else.
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110%er [9724]
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Oh I remember vividly.
1
Mar 31, 2022, 9:02 PM
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After losing to UNC is the ACC tournament, Brad in his postgame press conference blamed the loss on Tanner Smith…one of the best young men to ever come through the program.
Didn’t realize at the time, that was a terrible sign of things to come.
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Legend [16908]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Anyone who thinks the program under Brownell is better than
Mar 31, 2022, 11:40 AM
[ in reply to Anyone who thinks the program under Brownell is better than ] |
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What are you talking about? Are you completely delusional? Please answer the question below with either option 1 or 2
The talent on our team next year is way better than the leftovers that were left for brownell in year 2.
Which talent would you rather have returning?
Dawes
Chase hunter
Hemenway
Josh beadle
Hunter Tyson
Ian Schef
PJ Hall
Ben middlebrooks
Or...
Andre Young
Tanner Smith
Devin Booker
Milton Jennings
CatElin baciu
Bryan narcissi
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All-In [40777]
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Year 1 is what he was left with and
Mar 31, 2022, 12:49 PM
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next season isn’t here yet.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Year 1 is what he was left with and
Mar 31, 2022, 3:07 PM
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next season isn’t here yet.
Do you have any memory at all? OP left at the end of the recruiting cycle. When he left, we only had Marcus Thornton commited (ended up being an aveage player). He decommited and we signed nobody.
BB did something our well couldn't do with his players.... win an NCAA tourney game. After that the cupboards were bare. How can you not admit that?
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Year 1 is what he was left with and
Apr 1, 2022, 1:56 AM
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He didn’t win a round of 64 game and the 2009 class was the highest rated Clemson class in Rivals history leaving him plenty of depth. Stop beclowning yourself.
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All-TigerNet [11481]
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110%er [6099]
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Freshman [-79]
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Zzzzzz
Mar 31, 2022, 11:38 AM
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38th highest paid coach in America, with one or maybe two top 40 finishes in 12 years to go along with a grand total of TWO tournament wins.
Stats...
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110%er [6982]
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Re: Fun with stats
Mar 31, 2022, 4:19 PM
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Those stats are a bit cherry picked. OP took over an absolute dumpster fire of a program, so of course his stats versus ranked opponents is going to look bad because his first couple years he had no players. Brad Brownell took over an NCAA tournament caliber team and has not improved. This is like slicing up a rotten apple and showing someone the one or two slices that are still good
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All-In [44048]
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LOL at you telling the OP he cherry picked stats
Mar 31, 2022, 9:00 PM
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when he literally compared the two coaches’ entire body of work at Clemson.
You’re the one who wants to cherry pick stats by leaving off Purnell’s early years to make him look better.
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