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Devotee [330]
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Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 8:15 PM
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@ Clemson.....
I like coach BB. Smart guy and seems to understand the game well. Instead of just bashing or saying we need to keep him.... Let's judge him by basketball reasons.
Let's hear em.....
Lay the facts out on the table and say this is why.
Go
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 8:19 PM
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At the end of the day his record is all that counts, and it's not very good.
We don't need a great "coach", we need someone that can attract athletes and give us an edge over the powerhouse programs in the ACC.
We had that in Oliver Purnell.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 8:22 PM
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Through the first 5 years of his tenure (granted he's only coached 1 this year), he has the best ACC record in Clemson coaching history.
He went to the NCAA Tournament and won a game, with a team that may not have even made the NIT with the previous coach (I realize this is not a "fact", but if you don't think this is true, you don't know very much about basketball).
He developed the NBA Rookie of the Year (possibly).
He can flat out coach the game and makes good in game adjustments.
Laying out stuff like this isn't good enough for most people. They just think that he's a boring person for whatever reason (though they've never met him), read that we lost a game without watching, and want him gone. It's senseless.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 8:24 PM
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Those things you listed he did with players that he mostly did NOT recruit. The offensive players he recruited have left the program.
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All-TigerNet [10639]
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Legend [18664]
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CU Guru [1038]
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His coaching isnt so good, he wont adjust his system to the
Jan 4, 2015, 8:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well ] |
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players he has rather than keep trying to force them into his system.
And that crap about him taking a team to the NCAA??? What are you smoking? He took OP's team to the NCAA....BARELY!! He was in a play-in game. That shouldn't really even count as a "tourney" win. And then they lost in the real games. Again, he took OP's team and players and did that. After that, he hasnt done squat with his own players. His record has gotten worse each year. Last year was an anomaly and now we're back to his suckitude. This guy just isnt ready for the ACC, he should go back to Wilmington.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Re: His coaching isnt so good, he wont adjust his system to the
Jan 4, 2015, 10:26 PM
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You say he lost the real game but if you look back we had that game won until we gave out of gas to the way the tourney was scheduled. After that game they have changed the rules so that does not happen to any team again. I seem to remember a bunch of crying about OP when he was here and now a bunch of people want to talk like he did such a great job.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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How was his record BETTER last year, but characterized as
Jan 5, 2015, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to His coaching isnt so good, he wont adjust his system to the ] |
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having gotten progressively "worse" every year? How does that even make sense?
You want to disregard last year because it doesn't fit your pattern. But, maybe THIS year is actually the ANOMALY you cite.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well ] |
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I have nothing against Brownell I just don't think we can win playing his style of basketball.
You can twist and spin the stats all you want but our program got better every year under Purnell and got to the point that we were regularly in the top 25 and winning 20+ games a year.
Our program seems to be declining under Brownell.
In year 5 under Purnell we went 24-10, 10-6 in the ACC, and made it to the NCAA tournament.
Don't see that happening this year in Brownell's 5th season.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Twist and spin stats? Lol or just post them?
Jan 4, 2015, 10:25 PM
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Youre the one ignoring the facts that CUTiger simply posted. Your head is twisting and spinning
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1st Rounder [646]
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 5, 2015, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well ] |
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How am I twisting and spinning stats? I just posted them?
Brad Brownell MADE Jerai Grant, Tanner, Bobo, Narcisse, Booker, Jennings, AND XAVIER ANDERSON into players that were on an NCAA Tournament team. He made those guys into serviceable ACC players at the time. Purnell would not have sniffed the NCAA Tournament that year. Sorry. Wouldn't have happened. Hence, he bolted.
And yes, please keep ignoring conveniently that Brownell's record through first 4 years in ACC is best in Clemson history.
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110%er [6321]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 8:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well ] |
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I am not happy how the bb program is doing right now, but if you are going by records:
Rick barnes 1st 4 years....
74-48 conf 28-36 4 yr standing in acc tied for 6th, 6th, 4th, tied for 4th
Purnell
56-60 conf 22-42 first 4 yr standings in acc 9th, 9th, 9th, tied for 8th
Brownell
74-58 conf 32-36 first 4 yrs standing in acc tied for 4th, 7th,11th, 6th
pretty sure Brownell had the better record over OP
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 8:52 PM
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Couple of things.
Number one Brownell's first team was loaded with players OP recruited, you can't really give him all the credit for that first year. He had a good year in conference last year but the two before weren't good, one of them terrible.
Number two the ACC the last few years wasn't as good as it was when Purnell was here.
At this point in Purnell's career at Clemson the program was on the rise. Right now it is not.
I
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110%er [6321]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 9:16 PM
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why can't you give him credit for his first year. He improved the record with OP's players and finished higher in acc than OP. Anyone could see that he improved several of OP's players.
Yes, the 2012-13 was bad but to go from 5-13 in conference to 10-8 in conf play the next year is pretty good. And that record was because he improved some of OP's players.
The ACC has been down, but it dictates who play, can't change that. If OP was that good when the acc was not down, his record should have been better.
Not trying to argue, but trying to say that OP was not all that. OP finishing conf play 9-7 his last 2 yrs and losing 2 more games in 09-10 than 08-09 is not being on the rise. It is staying the same.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 10:17 PM
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Purnell had us ranked in each of his last 4 seasons. Brownell has never even had us in receiving votes.
We spent mid-December through the end of the season ranked in 2008-09 which is unprecedented for Clemson.
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1st Rounder [646]
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I still find it funny all the people praising OP when most
Jan 4, 2015, 10:33 PM
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were complaining while he was here. He left us high and dry and can you imagine recruiting against that? That place is so bad even their coach took off the first chance he got. Clemson will not be able to get the big time recruits to compete until we get as passionate for basketball as we do football. What good player will want to go play someplace where they can not fill their arena
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: I still find it funny all the people praising OP when most
Jan 5, 2015, 12:02 AM
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We can fill our arena and did with OP. This year's team doesn't play with the heart or effort necessary for fans to invest in them. That is why we filled the stadium in the NIT - the team worked and played hard.
However, with Brownell his 2nd year the team was done at the end of the year and felt we were above the CBI - despite needing practice for our 5 freshmen. The next season we finished the year with zero effort and losing 10 of 11 (including the last 7). People will show up if the team is worth watching, but no one wants to watch basketball played by an apathetic team.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: I still find it funny all the people praising OP when most
Jan 5, 2015, 11:38 AM
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I can agree with that. I'm ready to see more effort by this bunch. It's one thing to get beat by really good basketball teams. It's another thing to not even show up and just give effort. Hustle is easy.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: I still find it funny all the people praising OP when most
Jan 5, 2015, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to I still find it funny all the people praising OP when most ] |
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What I find funny is when people down play what OP did here, and then claim what Clemson can't do as a basketball program, even though WE DID IT while OP was here.
There was complaining when he was here during the last year or 2 just like there are people that complain about Dabo after a 10-3 season.
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CU Guru [1038]
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cant get any players that he needs to run his system and
Jan 4, 2015, 8:22 PM
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he refuses to adjust to the players he has. He keeps trying to jam the square peg through the round hole. He'll never be successful here.
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MVP [501]
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Re: cant get any players that he needs to run his system and
Jan 4, 2015, 8:48 PM
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Yeah like trying to play non ACC caliber players into ACC play
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Varsity [238]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 4, 2015, 10:15 PM
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Do you know him personaly or are you just guessing he is smart,and when it comes to basketball you must not be smart if you think brownell has aclue,you need to get a clue and so does Clemso AD,Trustees,Fans,MY GOD STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!
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Freshman [1]
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Re: Can anyone give me basketball reasons why BB has done well
Jan 5, 2015, 1:19 PM
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2 completely different coaches and styles. OP recruited athletes that played basketball. He played pressure D and ran the other team up and down the floor. We did not play very good fundemental bball under him. We could run avg and poor teams off the floor but against decent teams, we always struggled. We would never have competed against top teams consistently under Purnell.
Brownell is a much better fundamental coach. He coaches a slower game and we play very good D, most of the time. He seem to be recruiting players that fit that style. I think in the long run, we will be better under Brownell. I think we have been up to this point. Most of the time, we look better than we did under Purnell.
The bottom line is, who are we going to get that is better? We play in a tough conf and we are not a basketball school. Never have been. I think Brownell has done an admirable job up to this point. It will be very difficult for us to ever compete at the top of this league year in and year out.
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Team Captain [453]
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I'm at a loss
Jan 5, 2015, 2:05 PM
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After seeing this years team look non-competitive in several games, I can't really give you reasons. However, he's not too far off the mark from our typical coaches performances in their first 5 years so I'm not sure that a change makes much difference.
Ellis (1st 5 years)
WP = 61%
ACC WP = 41%
NIT = 3
NCAA = 2
Barnes (4 years)
WP = 61%
ACC WP = 44%
NIT = 1
NCAA = 3
Shyatt
WP = 45%
ACC WP = 25%
NIT = 1
NCAA = 0
Purnell
WP = 57%
ACC WP = 40%
NIT = 3
NCAA = 1
Brownell (Through 13 games of 5th season)
WP = 57%
ACC WP = 46%
NIT = 1
NCAA = 1
I think it's pretty safe to say that this team isn't getting an NCAA invite this season and will be fortunate to manage an NIT berth. Looking at the numbers I'd have to say his performance in the first 5 season is only better than Shyatt's. Despite the superior ACC WP, I think that's more a factor of a recent top-heavy ACC than it is an indicator of the program's success. The 2 post-season bids in likely 5 years is more indicative of the status of the program. Again I'm not sure given the history, who else can make much of a difference.
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