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Replies: 27
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Legend [16947]
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Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 14, 2013, 10:52 PM
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I'm a little tired of the Brad can't recruit argument. Obviously it is meant as a comparison to Purnell. From 2003 to 2009 Purnell recruited 1 no star, 2 two star, 19 three star, 2 four star, and 1 five star. The four and five stars all came in his seventh season. Brownell has 13 three stars and a four star so far. I'd say the recruiting is at least as good. The problems we're having are completely related to the vacuum at the senior and junior classes. I'm not a pumper. I have no idea whether we'll turn the corner in the next two seasons. But Brownell, unless he chooses to leave, will get two more seasons. And bashing the team - and particularly bashing the players only hurts. I read someone defend themselves by saying they're just pointing out facts. I'm not sure they understand the difference between facts and opinions, but if so, we don't need you to point out facts. Facts are facts. We can read the box score if we want to know Jennings' three point percentage.
And the crap you say on here does matter. The whole "Brownell is a great coach who can't recruit" mantra has been reiterated all week on 560 AM sports. And the one who started clearly picked it up from here and now all their talking heads treat it like fact. It makes its way into the community, makes recruiting even more difficult, then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Orange Blooded [2740]
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I agree. K, Roy, Thompson, Calhoun and most others
Feb 14, 2013, 11:02 PM
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didn't get 4's and 5's when they started at a big school. But for some reason we at Clemson should bring them in over night. Where's the logic?
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CU Guru [1407]
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Brad will be just fine.
Feb 14, 2013, 11:04 PM
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Recruiting is all about integrity and that takes a little time to build. Coach "B" has that and the longer he stays at Clemson, the more that will take hold. He knows how to coach, and that will also filter through the HS players and systems. He stepped in to a tough situation and is dealing with it. So should we. I think. Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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There is some truth to it
Feb 15, 2013, 12:00 AM
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We are half way through his 4th class and have signed 2 bigs (3 if you count Sullivan even though they moved him to a 3/4). You can't win big time basketball with out bigs.
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Legend [19732]
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How can we be halfway through his 4th class
Feb 15, 2013, 1:43 AM
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when he's been here less than 3 years? He had no recruiting class his first year(I simply don't count Cory Stanton who followed him and left). He signed 5 last year and 5 this year. We are halfway through his second class, and BTW, Blossomgame is a power forward.
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Legend [16947]
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Re: There is some truth to it
Feb 15, 2013, 7:47 AM
[ in reply to There is some truth to it ] |
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How are we halfway through his fourth class? He took over in April of 2010. The 2010-2011 freshman had their early signing period in September of 2009. Purnell had no one committed for that class. Which is why I firmly believe he knew he was leaving it was just a matter if finding an interested party. Also bare in mind that Brownell had less than 5 months after he took over till the early signing period for the 2011-2012 class. And the early signing period is where Clemsin needs to do its damage. This is where the bulk if your mid-tier payers are gobbled up. The blue-chips can afford to wait it out but Clemson can't compete for those players. But the best of the 3 star players - and Identifying the diamonds in this group is the key to success at a program like Clemson - are snatched up then. The current freshman are the only class Brownell had a whole year to work on. Besides - I feel like McDaniels, Roper and Filer have been excellent recruits.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Re: There is some truth to it
Feb 15, 2013, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to There is some truth to it ] |
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> You can't win big time basketball with out bigs.
That's the most ignorant thing I've read here in a long time. Obviously you don't follow college basketball. Guards rule this sport. Remember Duke's 2010 national title team? Who was their big... Brian Zoubek?
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Orange Blooded [4868]
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We bought into Bowden saying we needed facilities
Feb 15, 2013, 12:08 AM
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Yes, we got tired of him saying that then losing games he had no business losing but, in the end, he was right. We built up the football infrastructure and now we're getting the players. Apparently we're getting the right coaching too because we're seeing results on the field.
The basketball recruits that we want to sign are also being courted by schools that can show them spacious practice facilities, great weight rooms and generally appealing every day surroundings once the recruit becomes a student. Clemson is way behind in these areas. We need to build support facilities and, while we're at it, I say put in a new arena so we can relocate the big donors to club seating about half way up the bowl and put students back around the floor where they can do some good.
Just my opinion but that's why Al Gore invented the internet - so I could express it. I just hope he doesn't sell THAT to Al Jezeera.
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All-Pro [669]
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Re: We bought into Bowden saying we needed facilities
Feb 15, 2013, 12:15 AM
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NAILS for the last statement
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CU Medallion [58598]
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I wouldn't say he can't recruit, but he will have to recruit
Feb 15, 2013, 12:13 AM
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considerably better than he has so far if he is going to get us to the next level and make us seriously competitive in the ACC. That has nothing to do with Purnell, and is in no way a comparison to him, nor is it bashing Brownell. It's just my opinion based on my observation.
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110%er [7913]
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agreed....to succeed the kids have to come***
Feb 15, 2013, 8:09 AM
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CU Guru [1103]
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Not so sure of that. First thing we need is more experience.
Feb 15, 2013, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to I wouldn't say he can't recruit, but he will have to recruit ] |
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More experience should equal more wins. More wins should equal better recruiting. And balanced classes, unlike the current situation. I've seen lots of promise from some of the young players. They're not Duke and UNC level freshman and sophomores, but they certinaly have some skills and the ability to play within the team mindset Brownell is instilling.
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Varsity [244]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 1:54 AM
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My problem with Brad are the choices he makes in recruiting.
Last year he decided to sign a player(supposedly the best of our signees) that suffers from asthma.
Fast forward, now we have a player that can not get into playing shape because of his ailment and is very limited in his ability to play minutes.
This year he chooses to sign a 5'11" 2 Guard instead of an 6'4" 2 Guard.
You judge talent on what they do vs their best competition.
The 5'11" guard(Roper) scored 15 points vs Gaffney(State Champs) and the 6'4" guard(Spencer Collins) scored 44 points with 12 rebounds while playing Gaffney in the State Playoffs.
The 5'11" guard has to be removed on Defense in the last few minutes of the game because the other Teams started to post him up. You wouldn't have to take out the 6'4" guard.
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Legend [16947]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 8:01 AM
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I don't follow basketball recruiting enough to know the details to this story. If it's someone that would have been a freshman this year (meaning Brownell had more than a fee months to evaluate/recruit him) and wanted to play for Clemson then it is at least a reason for your skepticism. Which is a lot better than most of what's posted on here. But, there is generally a lot more to the story in recruiting than what we become privy to. I have a hard time believing he turned anyone away reputable from last years class. Some might say he didn't think he'd fit his system but that doesn't really seem plausible. If he didn't adapt he would just lose playing time till he goes elsewhere.
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Scout Team [168]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting ] |
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Are you comparing some other player from SC to Roper. Fact is Roper lit Gaffney up for 30 in a 1 point loss in a questionably called game in Gaffneys gym. 2) Roper Led his Team to a State Championship in 2011. not to mention being named the player of the year. In the same year they won the state Championship, he Lit Gaffney up for 43 in a Christmas tourney.. big competition?? what are you talking about? if you like spencer Collins fine but Don't put out bad info just to make your point. 3) Roper is listed and is a point Guard. He is a pg that can score.
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Varsity [244]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 9:29 AM
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Roper does not play the #1 at Clemson, Hall does!
So that means we have a 5'11" 2 Guard on the floor.
Not good defensively against the bigger guards!
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Scout Team [168]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 12:04 PM
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EHS... Time will tell. don't know if you have been watching the Clemson games but Roper has been bringing the ball up the floor a little more..perhaps preparing for Blossingame and Colemans return. you may also take in consideration how many PG's in the ACC are his size Indiana,NC,NCstate,Miami,Ohio State,Michigan State, .. do I need to keep going?? Clemson needs a scorer on the floor..Roper stretches the floor opening the middle for where they want the ball to go..but you already knew that..
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Legend [16947]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 8:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting ] |
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The kid you're talking about ended up at Wofford. I don't want to bash Wofford or the kid, but to hinge your argument that Brownell is missing on recruiting because he didn't offer a kid who only had three collegiate offers seems a little disingenuous. I know Roper's offer sheet was a little thin too, but he had three times the offers and an offer from VCU - who seem to know a thing or two about basketball these days. Collins' only other offers were Jacksonville and Gradner Webb.
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Varsity [244]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 9:34 AM
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> The kid you're talking about ended up at Wofford. I
> don't want to bash Wofford or the kid, but to hinge
> your argument that Brownell is missing on recruiting
> because he didn't offer a kid who only had three
> collegiate offers seems a little disingenuous. I
> know Roper's offer sheet was a little thin too, but
> he had three times the offers and an offer from VCU -
> who seem to know a thing or two about basketball
> these days. Collins' only other offers were
> Jacksonville and Gradner Webb.
The kid I'm talking about played against UVa at UVa for Wofford this year.
Spencer scored 10 points in the 1st half vs UVa.
The ENTIRE Clemson Team scored 10 points in the 1st half vs UVa.
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Legend [16947]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 9:49 AM
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You're obviously invested in Collins. Friend of the family, went to school with him, I don't know. I'm sorry you're disappointed he didn't end up at Clemson. But making comparisons like that is apples and oranges and anyone that follows sports knows it. Remove your emotional investment from the situation and you'll see that there is little reason to bash Brownell specifically over this choice. You already gave misleading info about their comparative high school stats. Not that they're particularly significant. The fact is "the experts" in recruiting would have picked Roper based on his rating and college offers. If from a purely objective analysis you thought Collins was the better player and in four years that is an obvious truth then perhaps you should submit your post history as a resume to rivals.
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 7:39 AM
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Exactly what talent did Purnell produce? He just played a system that fit it to having athletes and not basketball players.
Anyone criticizing Brownell is clueless.
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CU Guru [1898]
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That is a really good analysis -- especially when
Feb 15, 2013, 7:39 AM
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you consider that the 5 start was Milton Jennings.
Nice work.
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110%er [8009]
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I fall into the camp that Brownell is a great coach, but I
Feb 15, 2013, 11:29 AM
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am not convinced, YET, he is a great recruiter. Forget Purnell. He is no longer here. Brownell's recruiting stands on it's own merit. I'm not impressed.
I like Brownell. I want him to succeed. I am pulling for him. I hope I'm wrong and he starts reeling in the talent.
Oh, and don't give a few posts on a message board that much credit. Isn't it possible that the comments made all week on 560 are simply a reflection of what people are seeing with their own eyes rather than some crowd mentality started by a post on a message board?
I don't think Brownell should be fired. But when it comes to recruiting... don't tell me, show me.
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Legend [16947]
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Re: I fall into the camp that Brownell is a great coach, but I
Feb 15, 2013, 11:38 AM
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My point would be that, no matter how down the ACC might be, you can't expect a team of sophomores and freshman to show you a whole heck of a lot in conference play. So, in my opinion, its very difficult to judge how good he is at evaluating talent and recruiting. I think McDaniels, Roper, and Filer have shown flashes that they could be serious top ACC caliber players. They also make lots of youthful mistakes. The drum beat of "he can't recruit" is just a precursor to "the hot seat" which pretty much insures that he will fail. I would think most Clemson fans would rather not see that happen.
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110%er [8009]
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And sometimes "he can't recruit" is simply
Feb 15, 2013, 11:45 AM
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an observation of his performance to date and a sincere concern that if recruiting doesn't improve, the results likely won't either.
By the way, I never said he can't recruit.
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CU Guru [1103]
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Re: And sometimes "he can't recruit" is simply
Feb 15, 2013, 11:54 AM
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So you see bad players and/or a lack or skills in McDaniels, Filer, Roper, Coleman, Harrsion, Hall, Sullivan, Nnoko, and Smith? I think it's too early to make those judgements. I think I've seen some good things from all of them. And Blossomgame was perhaps the highest rated recruit on the roster, so we might want to see him play before writing him off. Bottom line is none of them have been around very long, and clearly they are still growing. No, they're not Duke and UNC type players, but they are good players in their own right who will in time form a soild team.
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CU Guru [1599]
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Boom, my thoughts EXACTLY
Feb 15, 2013, 1:03 PM
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The self-fulfilling prophecy is what bothers me the most.
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Orange Blooded [2219]
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Re: Brad Brownell and recruiting
Feb 15, 2013, 2:24 PM
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best thing we can do is pack the house on game day & show we love Basketball & want to win
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Replies: 27
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