|
When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
|
Replies: 64
| visibility 365
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 27, 2023, 1:38 PM
|
|
For those of you that don’t believe what Christianity is selling, but once did, or was raised in religious family’s (like me)… when did you start to question it all, and not believe?
|
|
|
|
 |
Ultimate Tiger [34852]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 24110
Joined: 2003
|
When I realized anything faith based was like someone saying “Just trust me, bro”***
4
May 27, 2023, 2:10 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [32210]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 27, 2023, 3:05 PM
|
|
Seeds from way back, but I just brushed them aside and accounted them to lack of understanding for a long, long time. It very much reminds me of the shift in understanding the solar system from Newtonian physics to Einsteinian.
In short, for centuries, the orbit of Mercury just didn't make sense. But it was a small variation, and Newton could account for 99% of everything else we measured. So, you just ignore it. But it never goes away.
Eventually, someone (Einstein) comes up with a different answer that accounts for Mercury, too. So it's perceived as a better answer to our observations.
Mercury still does what Mercury does, regardless of how one explains it. It's just a matter of which explanation fits the observable and experiential data better. I see the world's religions that way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 27, 2023, 3:17 PM
|
|
It wasn’t a single moment, it was a several year gradual realization that I couldn’t intelligently defend what I believed.
I had sincerely believed what i was taught but it was 100% on faith. Ironically, I lost my faith when I started studying it more and asking questions. The answers were getting more and more unsatisfying and I realized how much of what I believed really didn’t hold up to the slightest scrutiny.
I used to be that guy in college arguing with my friends that evolution was a lie and that they should come to church with me. Kinda crazy how your worldview can switch so dramatically.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3639]
TigerPulse: 80%
35
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 27, 2023, 3:17 PM
|
|
Started to question it in high school. I remember sitting in the church pew thinking to myself that all this has got to be a bunch of BS.
When I got older I gave it a chance. The straw that broke the camels back for me was when I discovered that there were writings about Jesus/early Christianity that weren’t included in the Bible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [32210]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 27, 2023, 3:41 PM
|
|
I think it interesting, and pretty cool actually, that there’s a wide range of cross-over both ways on the board. People that started atheist and went religious, and folks who started religiously and went atheist, and lots of stuff in between.
I don’t think anyone can deny there’s mystery in the universe, or our limited capacity to explain it. Some rely on science, some on religion, and some on both to varying degrees. I find the mix fascinating.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 27, 2023, 3:49 PM
|
|
The crazy thing is, one of them is right and they are both mind-blowing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [22307]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 17536
Joined: 1998
|
Christianity is fine. Many Christian churches and their congregations should try it.
3
May 27, 2023, 4:19 PM
|
|
There’s a few exceptions but Christian Nationalists have me shaking my head. The lack of tolerance, compassion, empathy and understanding combined with hostility is noteworthy. Add the propensity to assign blame and negative attributes to those different or who they disagree. Seems many Christians miss the point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: Christianity is fine. Many Christian churches and their congregations should try it.
1
May 28, 2023, 12:58 PM
|
|
I agree so many Christian’s are far from the teachings of Jesus Christ
Btw, I believe Jesus was a real man that lived and reached kindness, love, and all that good stuff… but he was just a man that was born, lived, and died as all men do
|
|
|
|
|
|
Campus Hero [13565]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 15534
Joined: 2003
|
Part of a small study group many years ago, we stayed
3
May 27, 2023, 5:40 PM
|
|
together for 7 years, went through all UMC Disciple bible studies, that was 4 years, made our own yearlong courses after that. Gotta tell you, even after the first year, it was easy to conclude that the Bible is severely limited in accuracy and scope. The evolution of the canon was dubiously determined by men with many and competing ideologies and motivations.
Doesn’t mean throw away faith, I mean that’s the real personal connection anyway, but Why stick around in a serious and challenging study group if you ain’t all in after one year? These were good people, community leaders(serious political cred), the subject matter was fascinating, and groups like this are a great way to forge friendships … and it was genuinely enjoyable learning in and teaching the group.
All of us walked away with profoundly changed faiths. A couple clung steadfastly to the word despite all we had learned. But most of us, myself included, came away with serious reservations about strict interpretations of the the Bible. Whether we like it or not, its teachings mean different things to different people, individual interpretation has the greatest influence on anyone who actually studies the work. And many people use it for ill purposes.
I was led away from much of what I’d learned in a lifetime in the church to believe more in people. Ironically, a more humanist approach. An example would be the faith Jesus had in the people around him, plenty of those stories in the Bible. I can teach the Bible all day long, backwards and forwards, and to me one of the unassailable truths the book teaches us is to serve others. So I ain’t ditching God, or chucking my Bible out the window…Jesus is still my homey. But all that stuff in the Bible didn’t exactly happen like the storytellers say it did. There is some hooey in there…..but that don’t mean you gotta give up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 28, 2023, 1:01 AM
|
|
What do you mean by Christianity? And what do you mean by selling?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3639]
TigerPulse: 80%
35
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 28, 2023, 12:28 PM
|
|
We are visiting my in laws this weekend so I had to go to church.
The preacher started the sermon by saying I’m gonna tell you the state this world is in. He proceeded to rail against Target and gay people for the next 15 mins and proclaimed that it would not get better but only keep “getting worse” as if it’s so terrible in the world now because there are gay people.
This is the crap they are selling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 1:17 PM
|
|
That’s sad, I used to go to church with family members when I came visit family. I moved out of SC long ago, lut have lots of family all over the Upstate. I felt like it was being respectful or something. It was so frustrating to have to listen to all that hate disguised as love
I decided to let my kids decide for themselves if they wanted to tag along with their little cousins and other family members…. They did that once
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT?? ] |
|
What do I mean by Christianity? Ummmmm: the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices of the Holy Bible. Would be the easy answer, but since I think you know what I mean by “Christianity” you may have to explain your question a bit
As for what it’s selling? proselytize: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
-to induce someone to convert to one's faith
-to recruit someone to join one's party, institution
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 3:04 PM
|
|
The term Christianity can mean a lot of different things to different people. In reality it is one thing. It is a brotherhood of people who have been drawn to God by Christ. The people that are drawn to God do not go "hold up, wait a minute".
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 3:14 PM
|
|
Yes indeed some of them do
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 3:25 PM
|
|
There are some people who decide to believe that cannot happen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 4:59 PM
|
|
So you saying if you believe it it’s true…. Kinda like “faith” huh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 5:24 PM
|
|
That's not what I said at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 5:48 PM
|
|
Perhaps you should say what it is you are saying
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 6:03 PM
|
|
I did
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 6:20 PM
|
|
Ok got it
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
I think there is confusion here.
2
May 29, 2023, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT?? ] |
|
Christians are not allowed to form opinions. When we stray from the Bible we get ourselves lost in our own intellect or rather take to our own understanding.
We do not choose God. God chooses us. While that seems harsh it has a specific advantage for not only is our sin covered from God's sight by the blood of His Son but it eliminates all pride of being a child of God. We can not claim the virtue of having chosen God.
When God chooses a man His Holy Spirit testifies to him that Jesus is The Christ. When that man accepts the testimony of God's Spirit he humbles himself to God and submits to forgiveness wrought by that innocent Blood. God births a new spiritual being into this world. Thus the term, born again as Christ told Nicodemus, a new spirit is born into existence.
When someone has that experience he can not change it. He might change his mind and believe that he never had the experience but what is that to a living spirit? Can a man kill a spiritual being, knowing that flesh can not touch a spirit?
Those who claim to believe yet changed their minds are confused. Either one has been born again or not. It's a one way street. Some are intellectually sure they believed but they have never been born again. Often people because of their guilt for sin show up at the altar and 'repent.' They turn over a new leaf and swear to do better. That relieves their guilt for the moment but as Paul wrote 'like dogs return to their vomit.' There is no living spirit within them and they continue in death.
Some newborn of the spirit seek the sincere milk of the truth of the Gospel and are nurtured by God's Spirit and His Word. They grow stronger in spirit and mature and walk, as well as they can, in truth. That's not to say they become sinless. That isn't possible while we're in this flesh.
Some newborns fail to seek the sincere milk of the truth of the Gospel and suck on the pacifier; their intellect and the world around them pacify their spiritual needs or so it seems to them. They quench God's Spirit when He calls them to truth in lieu of the attraction(s) of the world.
Eventually, the newborn spirit within will become so weak they no longer believe it exist. They are wrong. Many here are suffering this, I suffered this soon after I was born again back 50+ years ago but God was good to me and continued to nurse me with His grace, mercy and patients.
So either you were never born again and are now as lost as a blind goose in a snowstorm or you have beaten down your newborn spirit until it is so weak you don't remember being born again.
You have seek your answer within.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: I think there is confusion here.
1
May 29, 2023, 2:00 PM
|
|
> We do not choose God. God chooses us. While that seems harsh...
Indeed, it does sound harsh to condemn people to hell while also not giving them a choice, I agree.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
It's better than the alternative which was well revealed...
1
May 29, 2023, 5:43 PM
|
|
in that post following that statement. If we chose God we could justifiably claim good works which would empower our secular selves making us selfrighteous. Many Christian don't understand that or perhaps comprehend the concept.
You see them condemning the lost as if we are better than those who do not believe. When we realize we are special only because God says so then our joy in increased and our pride dies a certain death. I wish I had to cross that bridge only once but I've made many trips back and forth. I'm just glad to God for His patients with me and all other Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: It's better than the alternative which was well revealed...
2
May 29, 2023, 6:55 PM
|
|
Having no say in the matter when one of the options is eternal brutal torture is a better alternative? Whatever you say…
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [36212]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 34641
Joined: 1999
|
Clemson Tiger1988, you just stated a whole bunch of opinions
3
May 29, 2023, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to I think there is confusion here. ] |
|
I realize that you think they are more than your opinion, but that's also your opinion. Certainly aren't my opinions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
Re: Clemson Tiger1988, you just stated a whole bunch of opinions
2
May 29, 2023, 6:02 PM
|
|
I respect your opinion. I respect the Bible more. All of that is scriptural. Ask a question and I'll produce the book, chapter and verse.
Yes, that is my opinion but I should be ashamed to have presented Bible truths without showing respect for scripture by quoting it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [36212]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 34641
Joined: 1999
|
Re: Clemson Tiger1988, you just stated a whole bunch of opinions
1
Jun 1, 2023, 8:16 AM
|
|
You'll point to your interpretation of another human's interpretation of other humans' interpretations.
And while you're entitled to your opinion, it's still an opinion. The error is believing that your opinion is "the Bible."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
I believe the Bible is God's spoken word.
2
Jun 1, 2023, 9:32 AM
|
|
I believe my God is able to have produced and protected His Word and provided it to those who trust in Him.
I'm satisfied that you know that what I shared here about Christian beliefs is from the Bible. You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him believe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [36212]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 34641
Joined: 1999
|
Re: I believe the Bible is God's spoken word.
1
Jun 1, 2023, 12:52 PM
|
|
Well, you shared opinions about what certain interpretations of certain versions of the Bible say, but yes otherwise we are in agreement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
When we say 'interpretations,' are we speaking in general...
1
Jun 1, 2023, 1:17 PM
|
|
such that when two people see a cloud one sees Popeye and the other sees a swan? I talk to Christians everyday who read different versions of the Bible and seldom do we disagree on what the various versions teach.
Just like different denominations the versions agree on basic principles of the Gospel and standards God wants for us. I fear you're suggesting that another interpretation (translation) of the Bible wouldn't be founded in our earliest text and simply translated from Hebrew and Greek to English.
It's just words without God's Spirit lending understanding to it. In that case the Bible would have sundry meanings and everyone would take opportunity to make it suit their wants.
Imagine having Ole Will sitting beside you discussing what Hamlet means. The Bible changed many of my presuppositions and gave stronger enforcement to others. I happened to believe what my family taught during my childhood yet I can look back and see that most of them had picked and chosen what to highlight and it suited them rather than edifying me.
I strongly recommend everyone read the Bible for themselves rather than reading about it. God will speak in His Word.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [36212]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 34641
Joined: 1999
|
Re: When we say 'interpretations,' are we speaking in general...
1
Jun 2, 2023, 4:57 PM
|
|
It's just words without God's Spirit lending understanding to it.
I think your argument absolutely needs a premise like this for you to get past the problems I'm raising. However, I think ultimately it's got its own problem, which is whether someone's understand is actually inspired by a god. My personal experience is: no. And I gave it a shot. But no.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: I think there is confusion here.
1
May 30, 2023, 12:25 AM
[ in reply to I think there is confusion here. ] |
|
I only got past your first sentence. So, forgive me if you covered this. Of course Christians can form opinions. Those opinions will be guided by the Spirit of Love that lives within.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
I spoke exclusively about our opinions of God, Jesus...
1
May 31, 2023, 6:35 PM
|
|
and the Bible. Even if we disagree on certain details that is explainable knowing that we all grow at different rates and some like me spend years, even decades with stunted growth.
Now whether you like vanilla or strawberry, our opinions may differ.
Now go on and read the rest of that post. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3639]
TigerPulse: 80%
35
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
4
May 28, 2023, 7:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT?? ] |
|
What about people who truly give it a chance but come away unfulfilled?
I'm always going to be around it, so maybe one day I will change my mind, but I've always had doubts about it so I doubt I ever will.
I finally made the decision a few years ago to be open about my unbelief and let's just say it wasn't received well in my conservative family.
But you are probably right. Those who wind up walking away probably always had doubts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 28, 2023, 7:39 PM
|
|
> What about people who truly give it a chance but come away unfulfilled?
As far as I can tell, they claim this can't happen. They think that you actually really do know God exists, and you are just rebelling against him. It's not possible in their minds that maybe they are wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [32210]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 28, 2023, 8:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT?? ] |
|
>What about people who truly give it a chance but come away unfulfilled?
That's me. For over 20 years I was all-in. My mom still proudly displays a little plastic trophy I got for Consecutive Sunday School Attendance when I was like 7 or something, lol.
And when I believed, I truly believed. Even got into a fight on the school bus with a kid who questioned my faith once. (I beat his little heathen axx, btw.)
But over the years, and the more I learned about Christianity itself, hairline cracks began to appear. Eventually, as a young know-it-all, I just threw out the baby with the bathwater. Getting older now, I see things in a different way yet again. Things I was absolutely certain of, believing and non-believing, now I am no longer certain of, in either way.
So while I haven't given up on the possibility of God, the Christian description doesn't fully work for me anymore. Parts do, but not in full. And one does have to have faith. That's a fact. In whatever one believes. You can't fake it, you can't logic it, and you can't reason through it.
I mean, who's going to say "Well, I know intellectually that Buddhism is the correct interpretation of God, but I choose to be a Muslim." It just doesn't work that way. You believe what you believe. And you can't help it, really. Whatever ring true, in whatever way, rings true. And the rest simply doesn't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3639]
TigerPulse: 80%
35
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 29, 2023, 7:52 AM
|
|
So you tried to beat Jesus into him? LOL.
That made me laugh.
I do remember as a kid the feeling I would get when someone would say they didn't believe or if I heard something that went against my religion.
I think that's why it's so hard for some people to actually take a step back and examine their beliefs.
When something is ingrained in you from childhood it becomes a part of you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 29, 2023, 8:02 AM
|
|
Same, I remember being very religious and thinking: "Why don't you get this? It's so obvious!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
Jun 5, 2023, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT?? ] |
|
Fordtunate Son
On rare occasion, I will miss the ritual of religion and the community of it, but not the religion itself.
I suspect there are a lot of attendees who are there for the community and tradition, more than the actual religion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
Jun 5, 2023, 11:11 PM
|
|
That was my Mom and Dad. They were both raised in a much more religious household than me, esp my Pops. I’m certain my Mama only
went to church to be part of her community, she sang in the quire, and all her friends that she were up with were there. My Pops at a certain point only started going on Holidays like Easter and Christmas (coz there was good food)
I don’t think either of them were very religious but practiced the rituals/tradition of religion
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 29, 2023, 9:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT?? ] |
|
A person can stop believing things that they were taught or things they have read in religious texts. A person cannot unbecome a child of God.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
May 29, 2023, 11:29 AM
|
|
We realize you believe that, and that's fine, but that's a religious belief based on faith. It does not appear to borne out of fact. Many people lose their faith (this isn't specific to Christianity) all the time who believed exactly as you currently do. It's so easy to say, "well they just weren't true believers" or some other such nonsense because you don't have to back it up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 29, 2023, 12:20 PM
|
|
Religious beliefs and a relationship with God are two different things. I realize you do not believe this can happen, and that is a religious belief.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 29, 2023, 1:14 PM
|
|
> Religious beliefs and a relationship with God are two different things.
I agree, my position is that there is vast evidence that people have religious beliefs but zero concrete evidence that people have a relationship with God.
> I realize you do not believe this can happen, and that is a religious belief.
I also don't believe that Santa leaves presents after coming down my chimney or that the tooth fairy leaves money on our pillows. Are those also religious beliefs?
Not believing something due to a lack of evidence doesn't equate to a religious belief.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 29, 2023, 1:46 PM
|
|
That seems accurate for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Glad we could clear that up ;)***
3
May 29, 2023, 1:57 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 28, 2023, 12:38 PM
|
|
I can relate to of the things others listed
For me I never believed the stories in Sunday school, when grandma would dress us up and drag us off to church. I had a ton of questions that were usually me with god works in mysterious ways or anger that I’d dare question gods will/word….. which of course made me ask “why?”
As I got older I was able to do some of my own research from all different sources, and that evidence just doesn’t make sense at all
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [32210]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1944]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 28, 2023, 1:36 PM
|
|
That would be fantastic
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [36212]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 34641
Joined: 1999
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 29, 2023, 5:53 PM
|
|
Gave faith a shot starting around age 12, and concluded it was not believable by age 16.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
3
May 29, 2023, 7:01 PM
|
|
In what did you have faith? What was it like?
Really curious question. Have always thought you as a cool insightful man.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
Being godless and faithless...
2
May 29, 2023, 10:46 PM
|
|
does not make spooneye® an uncool and un-insightful man.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: Being godless and faithless...
2
May 30, 2023, 12:35 AM
|
|
I really don't think spooneye is Godless and thereby Faitless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
I was poking fun at both you and spoon.***
1
Jun 1, 2023, 1:18 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [36212]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 34641
Joined: 1999
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 31, 2023, 8:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT?? ] |
|
Hey p6, sorry for the delayed response. Didn't see your post until now.
I had faith in the Christian god based on what I learned in the Presbyterian church, Sunday School, and a religious family member who helped guide me.
What was it like? It felt like buying into an idea and seeing how it went.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33238]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 16879
Joined: 2014
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
1
May 30, 2023, 1:18 AM
|
|
what do you believe?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: When did you say hold up, wait a minute, WHAT??
2
Jun 5, 2023, 11:56 AM
|
|
Great question, as I bet everyone is different (and I've told this story many times)...
I realized fairly young that I simply didn't buy it. My family's religious faith seemed like an heirloom, not something that didn't need to be questioned. To me, this was no big deal - it wasn't that I didn't believe the god concept, but that I simply couldn't believe it as it never made any sense to me.
In junior high years I attended confirmation classes (someone can tell me the age you do that - 12ish?) and I am keenly aware that I didn't believe at that point, because I told my folks that I didn't want to go through the ceremony and was told that I would have to write all of the relatives and tell them why. The path of least resistance seemed to be going through the motions, so I did.
But when I was a Freshmen at Eastside, I remember sitting in a hallway between classes. I was a complete loser (and also a year younger than everyone else in the class, so not so mature). Suddenly, a cheerleader stopped in front of me, reached out with a piece of paper, and said (approximately) "I think you might like to come to this." Well, in that split second, it was a spirit bunny talking to loser me? I'd have walked through fire for her! I looked at the piece of paper, and it was an invitation to some Bible study thing. And in that following split second, I handed the paper back to her and said, "sorry, I'm an atheist." I don't think that, in the late '70s in school in Greenville, it would have been more shocking to have said "I bludgeoned my family this morning."
My atheism has never wavered. I recall Stephen Jay Gould asked about his after his first bout with cancer. He said, if my beliefs could be shaken through a personal crisis, that wouldn't be a very strong set of beliefs. I'd say that's my take. Again, I don't think it is a big deal. I don't think about not believing in god on a daily basis. About the only time I think about atheism is when I see religion being foisted on me in political ways.
I hope that my (non) belief helps me a little more to live in the day, confident that when I'm gone, I'm gone, so that I better make the best of things while I'm here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
I was 14 when I reasoned God away.
1
Jun 6, 2023, 10:18 AM
|
|
A catholic friend and I discussed the matter and set it to rest with many of the questions we've discussed here in this forum. It's an easy thing to do if you use intellectual reason and pure Vulcan logic.
Then five years later I met God. Had our roles been reversed I would have been screaming in His face for spending all His life ignoring me. I probably would have already condemned Him to hell to show Him who was boss. I'd have found a deep deep hole to stick Him in and spent eternity making sure He remembered that the one who He had insulted me with His self aggrandizing conceit and pride remembering that I had created Him and not the other way around.
But He didn't. He just said I need a word with you and that word was love. I thought my parents loved me and they did with all they could. I thought I loved them and my family and a few close friends but the love He extended to me made me understand that my concept of love was that of a dog. Even my love for Him never became more than I love Him because He first loved me.
So yeah, man's love for God is exactly why our dogs love us. We do for them and they attach themselves to us for all their needs and we fulfill them. So do I with God. I know there are some purebreds here but I'm not one of them. I'm a mongrel stray who He found in a ditch after catching that car and finding out that after I caught it I had no idea that the fun was in the chasing and not in the catching.
The only question remaining for me is 'Why me, LORD?'
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: I was 14 when I reasoned God away.
2
Jun 6, 2023, 11:28 AM
|
|
> I probably would have already condemned Him to hell to show Him who was boss.
For... Ignoring you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98975
Joined: 2009
|
Re: I was 14 when I reasoned God away.
1
Jun 7, 2023, 5:51 PM
|
|
In that scenario I was trying to take the view of the creator and noting the rebellion against He who created this world and everything in it bringing life to a lifeless universe.
God is almighty, able, merciful, ready to dispense grace to whoever will seek it and patient with those who do not, so far anyway. I'm just as thankful for His patients as any of His other attributes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2058]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: I was 14 when I reasoned God away.
2
Jun 8, 2023, 10:40 AM
|
|
> rebellion against He who created this world
We've been over this before, but that just doesn't track. I'm not sure how I am rebelling against something I don't think exists. I'm not spending time rebelling against the thousands of other supposed gods either...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: I was 14 when I reasoned God away.
2
Jun 6, 2023, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to I was 14 when I reasoned God away. ] |
|
I appreciate what you are saying. I was younger and I don't think I had quite such solid logical skills! It was much more of a broad, "I just can't believe what I am being told here." Now as my logical skills improved (and the missus can confirm that I am a hyper-logical guy, to a fault) it certainly left me more confident - completely confident - in my assessment. But my initial "doubt," came from a fairly intuitive place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 64
| visibility 365
|
|
|
|
50
