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Replies: 16
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Valley Legend [13081]
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Who Am I?
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Sep 20, 2025, 3:29 AM
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Who am I, that Christ would suffer for my iniquities and my sins? Why should anyone suffer for the wrong actions of another? Many have probably asked this question millions of times throughout history. I think it’s the wrong question to ask. The real question is who is Christ? Christ walked the Earth long before he was born in a manger, and walked with us in the cool of the evening whenever Adam and Eve lived in the garden. He has long advocated for our existence since God’s creation was defiled by their fall. He satisfied the wrath of judgment that was appointed to us. Yet, there are people who still refuse to believe that He exists.
To debunk any doubt of the existence of Christ we must first examine a few things.
1. Is there even a God? I have arrived at the conclusion that there is because of Genesis 1:26, whereby we were created in the image and likeness of God. This means we also harness the emotional and mental likeness of God as well. We are the only species on Earth that has a moral sense of right and wrong. No other species experiences guilt for harming another being. Gorillas do not care if they kill another gorilla. Their carnal nature prevents such.
2. Is there ancient literature about Christ aside from Biblical text? Of course, there existed several Roman authors who wrote books that referenced Christ. They weren't necessarily Christian authors either. Some of them actually published blasphemous material about Christ because they still worshipped ancient Greek gods.
Phlegon (ca. AD 140) Thallus (ca. AD 55) Celsus (ca. AD 175) Lucian of Samosata (ca. AD 166) Mara Bar Serapion (ca. AD 73) Pliny the Younger (ca. AD 112) Suetonius (ca. AD 120) Josephus (ca. AD 93) Tacitus (ca. AD 116)
All of the above authors wrote of Christ or Yeshua Bin Yosef, the 1st Century Rabbi.
3. Pontius Pilate's letter to Tiberius which describes the execution of Christ has been discovered. This proves that he was indeed crucified. (ref. The Anaphora Pilati)
4. Approximately 2,500 prophecies are written in scripture and nearly 300 of them were fulfilled by non-believers. In fact, the prophetic utterances were in reference to actions or fates of non-believers and such events came to pass. Many if not all of the prophecies are independent of each other as well. The odds that all of these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than 1 in 10 to the 2000th power. That's a 10 with 2000 zeros. (INSANE ODDS)
5. The disciples of Christ were brutally humiliated and killed for their belief in Christ. Who would choose to die in such a manner to protect or defend a lie when in every case they could have denied Christ and saved themselves from certain death?
Those are just some of the top 5 points I could make to use as the case for Christ, but the list is far from exhaustive. In short, there exists too much evidence of the existence of Christ and His goodness to simply turn away with complete negligence.
Yet, I will answer my first question. I am NOBODY compared to my creator. A flower quickly fading, a wave tossed in the ocean, a vapor in the wind.
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Game Day Hero [4123]
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And yet you choose fascism and long for civil war. Read the book dude.***
Sep 20, 2025, 7:12 AM
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CU Medallion [20960]
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Re: And yet you choose fascism and long for civil war. Read the book dude.***
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Sep 20, 2025, 8:07 AM
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Is there a political party in the US that does not embrace fascism is some fashion or another? Whoopin' up on people with a pen or a bomb.... which hurts more or has a more lasting effect?
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National Champion [7527]
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Game Day Hero [4123]
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its incredible to me how folks will lay cover fire for the craziest of posters
Sep 20, 2025, 8:53 AM
[ in reply to And yet you choose fascism and long for civil war. Read the book dude.*** ] |
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Because they believe they are on the same “side” as you. Chesty is a nut who has openly called for violence on this board. Yet because you perceive me as on the other “side” you will defend him.
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Valley Legend [13081]
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Re: its incredible to me how folks will lay cover fire for the craziest of posters
Sep 20, 2025, 10:04 AM
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If defense of the Constitution calls for violence, then that's just what the doctor ordered. It doesn't bother me. However, if our government abandons the U.S. Constitution and the voters who back such members of our government societally support such notions then it's time for war at that point.
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Valley Legend [13081]
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National Champion [7527]
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Re: its incredible to me how folks will lay cover fire for the craziest of posters
1
Sep 20, 2025, 10:28 AM
[ in reply to its incredible to me how folks will lay cover fire for the craziest of posters ] |
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When you study the writings of the founders, it is plainly clear that they did not intend 2A to protect hunting rights. They intended it for the citizens to be able to protect themselves from a central govt that went tyrannical. They never intended for the central govt to have 1/10th the power it now has. They saw it the duty of the people to not allow the central govt to control the States.
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CU Medallion [20960]
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Game Day Hero [4123]
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Valley Legend [13081]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: And yet you choose fascism and long for civil war. Read the book dude.***
Sep 20, 2025, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to And yet you choose fascism and long for civil war. Read the book dude.*** ] |
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No, I chose the U.S. Constitution. In fact, God and politics don't even mix. I'm not a Trump supporter; I don't even vote usually. I did vote 2 times for Donald Trump, and it was the only two times I ever voted. I did not vote this previous election. As far as civil war and division is concerned, Christ never came to bring unity. No, just the total opposite. He came to separate the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares. Not once did he say to become some vocal support for communism, socialism, or homosexuality. So, I don't want unity with false religions, evil ideologies, or criminals who harm others based upon disagreements. Sometimes war is the answer and I for one have never read anywhere that Christ commanded us to be spineless pacifist.
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Asst Coach [859]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Who Am I?
Sep 20, 2025, 9:56 AM
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I hope these aren't the top 5 points as they are riddled with errors
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Valley Legend [13081]
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Re: Who Am I?
Sep 20, 2025, 10:05 AM
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Point out the errors please.
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Asst Coach [859]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Who Am I?
Sep 20, 2025, 11:06 AM
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1. Dolphins show grief, elephants have burial rituals, primates demonstrate fairness concepts. Your premise that humans alone possess morality is demonstrably false.
2. Most scholars acknowledge these sources reference early Christian beliefs, not Christ himself. Josephus' key passage is widely considered a later Christian interpolation. Writing about a movement doesn't validate its central claims we have sources about Zeus worship too.
3. The Anaphora Pilati is a medieval forgery, not an authentic 1st-century document. No serious historian accepts it as genuine evidence. You're building on fabricated foundations.
4. Post-hoc rationalization. Gospel writers had access to Hebrew scriptures and crafted narratives to fit prophecies. Your statistical calculation assumes prophecies were specific and independent both questionable premises. Vague language allows retrofitting to almost any events. Not to mention there appear to be failed prophecies by Jesus himself.
5. People aren't always rational. People die for false beliefs regularly Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones followers, kamikaze pilots. Sincere conviction doesn't equal truth. Additionally, most apostolic martyrdom accounts are late, legendary developments with little historical support.
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Valley Legend [13081]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Who Am I?
Sep 20, 2025, 4:22 PM
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1. Dolphins show grief, elephants have burial rituals, primates demonstrate fairness concepts. Your premise that humans alone possess morality is demonstrably false.
2. Most scholars acknowledge these sources reference early Christian beliefs, not Christ himself. Josephus' key passage is widely considered a later Christian interpolation. Writing about a movement doesn't validate its central claims we have sources about Zeus worship too.
3. The Anaphora Pilati is a medieval forgery, not an authentic 1st-century document. No serious historian accepts it as genuine evidence. You're building on fabricated foundations.
4. Post-hoc rationalization. Gospel writers had access to Hebrew scriptures and crafted narratives to fit prophecies. Your statistical calculation assumes prophecies were specific and independent both questionable premises. Vague language allows retrofitting to almost any events. Not to mention there appear to be failed prophecies by Jesus himself.
5. People aren't always rational. People die for false beliefs regularly Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones followers, kamikaze pilots. Sincere conviction doesn't equal truth. Additionally, most apostolic martyrdom accounts are late, legendary developments with little historical support.
1. Morals and values have nothing to do with emotions.
2. Every one of those writers mention Christ. They don't dive deep into his life or anything of the sort, but he is mentioned.
3. You are incorrect. The Anaphora Pilati is carbon dated back to the 4th Century along with other letters involving Pilate, Herod, and Tiberius. While it's dating is from the 4th and 5th Century, the contents were most likely not forgeries, but rather reiterations of original documents by 4th and 5th Century historians.
4. Most prophetic occurrences are not vague, self-fulfilled, or just made up. There is evidence of their fulfillment. We can get into that discussion in depth if you would like to.
5. You are aware that The Apostle Paul would have been given much wealth, and a position of power had he only rejected Christ, correct? He was a Roman citizen and actually hunted down Christians and killed them for years. Without any social or peer influence he suddenly became a Christian. I wonder how that happened.
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Game Day Hero [4149]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: Who Am I?
Sep 20, 2025, 5:16 PM
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2. Is it not interesting and a bit suspicious though that someone added to Josephus’ writing?
5. Paul is not mentioned in any source outside the New Testament which seems odd if he was such a high ranking Pharisee. Not saying he didn’t exist, but that he was going around killing Christians and suddenly converted, highly doubtful.
If that is true though he’s a murderer and shouldn’t be held up as a saint and martyr.
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Asst Coach [859]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Who Am I?
Sep 20, 2025, 8:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Who Am I? ] |
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1. You're moving the goalpost, you said "We are the only species on Earth that has a moral sense of right and wrong. No other species experiences guilt for harming another being. Gorillas do not care if they kill another gorilla. Their carnal nature prevents such."
Blatantly false, experiments do not agree with your statement.
2. "2. Every one of those writers mention Christ. They don't dive deep into his life or anything of the sort, but he is mentioned.
Right, these are repeating Christian beliefs, they aren't some independent testimony to his existence. For the record, I think Christ absolutely existed, i just don't think he was supernatural.
3. "You are incorrect." No, I'm not you need to research this one. Historians disagree with you. Again, for the record, I think Christ was crucified, i don't think this document is legitimate though.
4. "Most prophetic occurrences are not vague, self-fulfilled, or just made up. There is evidence of their fulfillment. We can get into that discussion in depth if you would like to."
Sure, let's do it. But i'd like your definition/methodology for determining what a legitimate prophecy is before we have that discussion.
5. "You are aware that The Apostle Paul would have been given much wealth, and a position of power had he only rejected Christ, correct? He was a Roman citizen and actually hunted down Christians and killed them for years. Without any social or peer influence he suddenly became a Christian. I wonder how that happened."
And? People will Kamikaze themselves for their country, his conviction in his beliefs doesn't make the beliefs true.
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Replies: 16
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