Replies: 44
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All-In [40936]
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Putin has caused 40 year high inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 8:54 AM
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but at least he got rid of Covid.
Can you imagine how high inflation would be if a Republican was elected instead of the most popular president ever?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 9:01 AM
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Seriously where is Covid? Anything in the news? Lol. Nope.
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All-In [31514]
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Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 9:05 AM
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Do you think it might have something to do with infection, hospitalization, and death rates plummeting after the omicron surge?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 9:21 AM
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Actually, yes I do. Enough people finally acquired the virus that it’s playing out. I’m just asking why no admission of that in the news? The vaccines and masks did not stop it. Herd / natural immunity is finally stopping it.
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Heisman Winner [137976]
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Vaccines absolutely did keep a significant number of people
Mar 10, 2022, 9:37 AM
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alive that wouldn't be today without them, and absolutely did significantly slow the spread of the original and Delta strains. As inconvenient as it is for your narrative, the vaccines likely saved several million lives worldwide. You're a complete hack.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Vaccines absolutely did keep a significant number of people
Mar 10, 2022, 9:50 AM
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The vaccines did not stop the spread. Your “science” is no longer on your side. Just stop.
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All-In [31907]
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I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt....
Mar 10, 2022, 9:58 AM
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and say there is no way you can be that stupid.
come on
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt....
Mar 10, 2022, 10:18 AM
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Vaccines did not stop it. Sorry
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All-In [31907]
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If you don't think the vaccine reduced infection rates....
Mar 10, 2022, 10:22 AM
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then you are a fool....err...grossly misinformed.
Sorry
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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"the science" says they do little, if anything to stop
Mar 10, 2022, 10:41 AM
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transmission, since Delta anyway. The science also says they help you clear the virus much better, and faster, hence less severe symptoms, less hospitals and far less deaths. In the early days of "infection" you're clueless. Feel fine. You also have very high viral loads. It's also bypassing your innate immunity at that time. You're also spreading it the most. With no immune reaction due to interferon suppression, for days, it replicates unchecked. It CAN NOT BE CHECKED early on. That's the whole trick, with every variant. IF you have antibodies to match the infection well, and high levels of them, you may never even know you were "infected" or passing it. They kick in later, and give you whatever level of severity you end up with. This is why everyone spends 8-10 days at home SLOWLY getting worse, until they end up in a hospital. It cripples your immune system, and every tool we have against it is less effective and initially ineffective. There's a chance that immune suppression becomes permanent. This is why 10,000+ people who recovered from severe covid in India got a once rare fungal disease, many of them dying. Post covid, you are prone to opportunistic infections.
No one in authority has been truthful about covid since day 1. And they won't be. It's about as dumb to be truthful about it as to run on a political platform of spending cuts.
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All-In [31907]
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Man....have you gotten to the point that....
Mar 10, 2022, 11:46 AM
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your posts are so long that you can't help buy become inconsistent?
If Tnet had a decent search feature I would find it, but we had agreement some weeks ago that the studies show efficacy against infection.
This issue has been discussed around and around on here for months. The studies show that the vaccines have efficacy against infection for all variants...with that efficacy having decreased from alpha through to omicron and also with the efficacy increasing with the booster.
So, from where I sit and what I see and I what I've read/studied, the vaccines most certainly impacted the spread of the virus.
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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All-In [31907]
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Wait....you believe that link proves that the vaccines do...
Mar 10, 2022, 12:55 PM
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nothing to limit infections?
Come on....
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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I believe that CDC study.......shows that
Mar 10, 2022, 1:35 PM
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During July 2021, 469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ?14 days before exposure). Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%). Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic. Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported.
If you have a state population 69% fully vaccinated, and an large community event where 469 people get covid, and of those 469, 74% are fully vaccinated, yes, I think that shows it does very little to prevent infection.
CDC doesn't do viral load studies, but with Omicron the load doesn't get as high as delta, but it lasts longer. 10 days for 80% of people before they become non -infectious. Peak viral loads happen around days 3-5. When the CDC shortened the quarantine guidelines, that too was based on BS. They did a study and MODELED a result based on DELTA data. Meanwhile foreign scientists were actually testing omicron data, and found the CDC was wrong.
Again I don't trust the CDC.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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This is all a classic example of two camps, and no middle
Mar 10, 2022, 12:18 PM
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ground. Camp A is a big believer in the vaccines, and believes that they save lives and stop the spread. Camp B thinks the vaccines don't stop the spread, and as such are worthless. Not to mention they're deadly, have microchips in them, whatever. Just not going to take them ever.
Then you have Camp C, who thinks the vaccines are natural, as is the virus, and the natural virus and the natural vaccines have some natural (bad) side effects. BUT, the vaccine also does nothing to slow transmission, but does a TON to save lives. As such, it is a calculation and is worth getting it as you will get covid anyway.
The US does not have a political party for Camp C.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: This is all a classic example of two camps, and no middle
Mar 10, 2022, 12:38 PM
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I believe the vaccines do nothing to stop the spread. ( camp B). I believe the vaccines might save some lives in some truly health compromised individuals. (Camp C). I believe natural immunity post Covid is a responsible and valid choice. It’s the choice I made and it seems to have been a good choice. So I guess you can put me in Camp B minus. The problem Camp A considers anyone with other camp ideas to be a moron.
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All-In [31907]
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I consider anyone that dismisses all of the studies....
Mar 10, 2022, 12:53 PM
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that show vaccine efficacy against infection to be...well...yeah, morons.
I think a lot of people confuse % efficacy with all or nothing. They maybe aren't morons...just ignorant.
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All-In [31907]
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Oh come on....
Mar 10, 2022, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to This is all a classic example of two camps, and no middle ] |
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you seriously believe that the covid vaccines did nothing to limit infections and, thereby, transmission?
To believe that...you have to believe numerous studies to be wrong...right?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Oh come on....
Mar 10, 2022, 1:18 PM
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I believe the vaccines did not stop the spread and they were not what everyone hoped them to be in terms of transmission. Do, correct.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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Son and I spread it to 16 people last Christmas
Mar 10, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Not a single person who set foot in our house, didn't get it within a week. EVERYONE was fully vaxxed.
AND......no one got anything worse than a cold. Even my 77yo mother with asthma, copd, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and the entire library of comorbidities. They work, just not at preventing infection, but surviving it with a mild cold. Worth it in my book.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Son and I spread it to 16 people last Christmas
Mar 10, 2022, 12:18 PM
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Agreed. Some studies show the vaccines reduce the spread, but maybe that's just fewer vaccinated people getting tested due to never developing symptoms or at least not getting serious enough symptoms to bother getting tested? I think far too many people misunderstand that the primary target of the vaccines is to limit severe symptoms. The same is true with flu vaccines as well.
I know of at least 1 person who was taking a wait and see approach towards getting the vaccine and ended up never getting it because he knew vaccinated people who still got Covid so he concluded the vaccines didn't do anything.
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Rock Defender [53]
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More moving goalposts
Mar 10, 2022, 1:36 PM
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Son and I spread it to 16 people last Christmas
Mar 10, 2022, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to Son and I spread it to 16 people last Christmas ] |
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Basically the vaccine and even our immune system in general doesn't recognize a virus the exact second it comes near us.
I compare it to having a gun for home defense. Having a gun isn't likely to stop someone from breaking into your home if they want(assuming they don't already know you own a gun and avoid your home due to that). Let's say you're upstairs and hear an intruder downstairs. You respond by grabbing your gun and chase the intruder off, make a citizen's arrest, shoot them, or whatever.
Having the gun didn't prevent someone from breaking in(virus entering your body) and maybe the intruder caused damage to your door and knocked over a lamp or something before you could respond(virus causing symptoms) but having the gun may have saved your family from physical harm or at least saved your home and personal property from further loss(vaccine working to eliminate the virus before severe symptoms).
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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Nothing stops it.
Mar 10, 2022, 10:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.... ] |
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Irony not lost that the vaccines are really natural immunity. A complimentary exposure to Wuhan covid. And the first shot would equal a mild case, little immunity. A second shot is a more severe case. And a booster is exposure at the level of hospitalization. THAT WAY, you don't die as much. Still, none of this "immunity" stops you from getting "infected" and spreading it.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Nothing stops it.
Mar 10, 2022, 10:38 AM
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IDK Tiggity, the CDC published data saying the infection rate was 5X higher for the unvaccinated through the delta wave and 2-3X higher during omicron. Now, the question is, why do you think we can't rely on that data?
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: I trust Singapore more than the CDC
Mar 10, 2022, 11:15 AM
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I get your point on the CDC, been terrible since day 1. But, infection rate by vax status should be an easy compilation. Do you have data from Japan or Sing. or anywhere that compiles infection rate by vax status that disputes the CDC data?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I trust Singapore more than the CDC
Mar 10, 2022, 11:28 AM
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: I trust Singapore more than the CDC
Mar 10, 2022, 11:41 AM
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Covid hero, lol, good one! No, I just respect that he has spent a lot of time compiling data from all over the world to try to keep us informed. Some don't like hearing the truth and seeing real data as it destroys narratives they like to spew on here. Ive seen the DHEC numbers, the national numbers show a slightly wider gap for omicron(2-3X), but the delta numbers match pretty well (5X higher).
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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Yes.....
Mar 10, 2022, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: I trust Singapore more than the CDC ] |
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Key finding....."PCR cycle threshold (Ct) values were similar between both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups at diagnosis, but viral loads decreased faster in vaccinated individuals."
Whole study (7/31/2021):
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261295v1.full-textVirological and serological kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant vaccine-breakthrough infections: a multi-center cohort study Objectives Highly effective vaccines against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) have been developed but variants of concerns (VOCs) with mutations in the spike protein are worrisome, especially B.1.617.2 (Delta) which has rapidly spread across the world. We aim to study if vaccination alters virological and serological kinetics in breakthrough infections.
Methods We conducted a multi-centre retrospective cohort study of patients in Singapore who had received a licensed mRNA vaccine and been admitted to hospital with B.1.617.2 SARS-CoV-2 infection. We compared the clinical features, virological and serological kinetics (anti-nucleocapsid, anti-spike and surrogate virus neutralization titres) between fully vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.
Results Of 218 individuals with B.1.617.2 infection, 84 had received a mRNA vaccine of which 71 were fully vaccinated, 130 were unvaccinated and 4 received a non-mRNA. Despite significantly older age in the vaccine breakthrough group, the odds of severe COVID-19 requiring oxygen supplementation was significantly lower following vaccination (adjusted odds ratio 0.07 95%CI: 0.015-0.335, p=0.001). PCR cycle threshold (Ct) values were similar between both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups at diagnosis, but viral loads decreased faster in vaccinated individuals. Early, robust boosting of anti-spike protein antibodies was observed in vaccinated patients, however, these titers were significantly lower against B.1.617.2 as compared with the wildtype vaccine strain.
Conclusion The mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing symptomatic and severe COVID-19 associated with B.1.617.2 infection. Vaccination is associated with faster decline in viral RNA load and a robust serological response. Vaccination remains a key strategy for control of COVID-19 pandemic.
### Competing Interest Statement
BEY reports personal fees from Roche and Sanofi, outside the submitted work. All other authors declare no competing interests.
### Funding Statement
This study was funded by grants from the Singapore National Medical Research Council (COVID19RF-001, COVID19RF-008). The funders had no role in the design and conduct of the study;url=https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/0.001). PCR cycle threshold (Ct) values were similar between both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups at diagnosis, but viral loads decreased faster in vaccinated individuals. Early, robust boosting of anti-spike protein antibodies was observed in vaccinated patients, however, these titers were significantly lower against B.1.617.2 as compared with the wildtype vaccine strain.
Conclusion The mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing symptomatic and severe COVID-19 associated with B.1.617.2 infection. Vaccination is associated with faster decline in viral RNA load and a robust serological response. Vaccination remains a key strategy for control of COVID-19 pandemic.
### Competing Interest Statement
BEY reports personal fees from Roche and Sanofi, outside the submitted work. All other authors declare no competing interests.
### Funding Statement
This study was funded by grants from the Singapore National Medical Research Council (COVID19RF-001, COVID19RF-008). The funders had no role in the design and conduct of the study; collection, management, analysis and interpretation of the data; preparation, review or approval of the manuscript; and decision to submit the manuscript for publication.
### Author Declarations
I confirm all relevant ethical guidelines have been followed, and any necessary IRB and/or ethics committee approvals have been obtained.
Yes
The details of the IRB/oversight body that provided approval or exemption for the research described are given below:
Written informed consent was obtained from study participants of the multi-centre study approved by National Healthcare Group Domain Specific Review Board (NHG-DSRB) (Study Reference 2012/00917). Informed consent for retrospective data collection at National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID) was waived (NHG-DSRB reference number 2020/01122).
All necessary patient/participant consent has been obtained and the appropriate institutional forms have been archived.
Yes
I understand that all clinical trials and any other prospective interventional studies must be registered with an ICMJE-approved registry, such as ClinicalTrials.gov. I confirm that any such study reported in the manuscript has been registered and the trial registration ID is provided (note: if posting a prospective study registered retrospectively, please provide a statement in the trial ID field explaining why the study was not registered in advance).
Yes
I have followed all appropriate research reporting guidelines and uploaded the relevant EQUATOR Network research reporting checklist(s) and other pertinent material as supplementary files, if applicable.
Yes
The datasets generated during and/or analysed during the current study are available from the corresponding author on reasonable request.
CDC followed up with their own study a week later, showing the same thing. This is when they recommended masking again, after saying it was ok not to, for reference.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm
Australia and Israel also had similar studies as well. A fully vaccinated kid in Israel infected like 30 people at a high school party, with delta, that he got from his vaccinated parents who recently traveled.
Don't feel like looking for those. Yes, the vaccines save lives, and make the illness much milder. They do little, if anything (NOT 5x) to stop transmission, and there is zero impact on initial viral load. That's because of interferon suppression, which Delta introduced at very high levels. Without interferons alerting your immune system, it doesn't know to use (or make) antibodies. So....NOTHING stops it. Not natural immunity and not vaccine (also natural) immunity. Just helps you not die and have a milder illness. This gets pretty deep but:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2021.752214/fullCoronavirus Nsp1: Immune Response Suppression and Protein Expression Inhibition Coronaviruses have brought severe challenges to public health all over the world in the past 20years. SARS-CoV-2, the causative agent of the COVID-19 pandemic that has led to millions of deaths, belongs to the genus beta-coronavirus. Alpha- and beta-coronaviruses encode a unique protein, nonstructural protein 1 (Nsp1) that both suppresses host immune responses and reduces global gene expression levels in the host cells. As a key pathogenicity factor of coronaviruses, Nsp1 redirects the host translation machinery to increase synthesis of viral proteins. Through multiple mechanisms, coronaviruses impede host protein expression through Nsp1, while escaping inhibition to allow the translation of viral RNA. In this review, we discuss current data about suppression of the immune responses and inhibition of protein synthesis induced by coronavirus Nsp1, as well as the prospect of live-attenuated vaccine development with virulence-attenuated viruses with mutations in Nsp1.
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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If herd/natural immunity stopped it
Mar 10, 2022, 10:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation ] |
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It would have stopped by now. Literally everyone I know has has the virus. Several of them twice who have been vaccinated, and never vaccinated.
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Oculus Spirit [81076]
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My wife and I never had it, at least that we know.
Mar 10, 2022, 12:12 PM
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We were both sick with something like a cold in January, but she took 2 tests a week apart and they were both negative, so I'm still not sure we had it.
We both got fully vaccinated in January of 21, and a booster in Nov.
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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I've never tested positive. I'm just assuming I've had it
Mar 10, 2022, 12:58 PM
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though. Same crud everyone else had, and everyone else has tested positive for covid. And with 3 kids between 4 and 13, going to 3 different schools, and everything else, we've all had it. Two sons have had it twice. No way I haven't had it. We never did anything to isolate, just acted normal in the house as usual. Figure what's the point.
It is odd though, me and my mother, both have never tested positive. I've taken a dozen or more covid tests, with the thing going through our house 2 times (documented), and never been positive.
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110%er [5692]
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Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 12:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation ] |
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Death rates are NOT plummeting. That's fake news.
Deaths will eventually follow the reduction in cases, but that has not happened yet. If anything, death rate ticked up a bit in the US recently.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 12:38 PM
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You're fake news. It has gone from an omicron high of around 2600 down to 1300. I explained this to you back in August when you were posting that "COVID Delta is way over-hyped" and you still don't understand but historically, there is a 1-2 week gap from case to hospitalization and then a 1-4+ week delay from hospitalization to death. At the end of that conversation, you admitted that you "DESERVED THE I TOLD YOU SO". You can follow that convo here ...
https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/re-tell-that-to-my-best-friend-whos-one-year-old-just-tested-29238883#29238883
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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There's news.
Mar 10, 2022, 9:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: Putin has caused 40 year high inflation ] |
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You have to look for it though. Definitely an attempt to suppress, and much more coordinated. About as hard to find news on covid as Russian successes in Ukraine. The media never changes, and hasn't for centuries. Back in 1919 there was plenty of news about the Spanish flu, but it was mostly news in Spain (who remained neutral through WW1), hence the name for the flu, because they covered it. "News" in the US and UK was controlled, coordinated, and was mostly about WW1. Doesn't matter the earliest Spanish flu cases were in the US, and that it wreaked havoc on allied armies through WW2, or that more soldiers died from the Spanish flu than from the Germans. Nope. History......something.....repeat......something.
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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Oculus Spirit [97732]
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Putin isn't causing the inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 9:02 AM
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It's all Biden's fault. Just look what he has done. Liberals Ghana blame Putin. Republicans Ghana blame Biden. Imagine if they were both wrong. I know, Shirley it MUST be either a Russian tyrant or a left wing liberal dementia-addled President. How can there be any other reason?
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rateThis page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - Inflation Rate. This page provides values for Inflation Rate reported in several countries. The table has current values for Inflation Rate, previous releases, historical highs and record lows, release frequency, reported unit and currency plus links to historical data charts.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Putin isn't causing the inflation
Mar 10, 2022, 9:59 AM
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Aw man, you are destroying the derps narrative with facts that they will refuse to digest. They also won't accept the fact that part of the extra pandemic spending that is causing part of our excess inflation over the world mean came from the Trump admin also. Nope, facts aren't allowed in our current political climate. Having said that, thank God for Joe Manchin for killing BBB.
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All-In [34598]
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Heisman Winner [137976]
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Should we be shocked that you're quoting Posobiec?
Mar 10, 2022, 10:54 AM
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I won't insult you by assuming you don't know who he is and who he's tied to, in addition to being pretty dumb.
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110%er [5692]
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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