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1st Rounder [616]
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So why can’t some Christians let go of hatred for gay people?
Feb 28, 2019, 1:28 AM
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Sure there are a few anti-gay passages in the Bible. But it’s not like they don’t already ignore thousands of other passages.
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All-In [25008]
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The real visceral hate that some have
Feb 28, 2019, 1:43 AM
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Is often projection
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All-In [48078]
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Re: So why can’t some Christians let go of hatred for gay people?
Feb 28, 2019, 6:24 AM
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I assume they are gay. Kind of like Senator Larry Craig who was busted in the Minnesota airport.
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Legend [17781]
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Re: So why can’t some Christians let go of hatred for gay people?
Feb 28, 2019, 1:50 PM
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Larry Craig wasn't looking for an encounter in that bathroom stall, he just likes to take “a wide stance when going to the bathroom.”
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All-In [26968]
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Anyone who hates someone else
Feb 28, 2019, 6:37 AM
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is probably not a Christian.
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All-In [34113]
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Cool, what data do you have on that?***
Feb 28, 2019, 7:34 AM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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He means based on his perception of Christianity.
Feb 28, 2019, 7:44 AM
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There are thousands,
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All-In [26968]
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5:19-21
Feb 28, 2019, 8:00 AM
[ in reply to Cool, what data do you have on that?*** ] |
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In Galatians, that is.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: 5:19-21
Feb 28, 2019, 9:59 AM
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I guess the running "I wood" joke on Tnet makes this a den of heathens who will all burn in hell.
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All-In [34113]
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Re: 5:19-21
Mar 3, 2019, 6:06 PM
[ in reply to 5:19-21 ] |
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Sure, but by that argument, Christians don't commit adultery. It's right there in the text you copied.
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All-In [42197]
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All-In [26968]
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I'd say we all have moments of hatred...
Feb 28, 2019, 8:10 AM
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Just like we all sin in the form of lying sometimes, lusting after women sometimes, etc. But to have a persistent, unrepentant hate is a sign of a lack of regeneration in Christ. Only God can judge the heart, but we people are responsible for making judgments based on the evidence presented to us.
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All-In [42197]
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Regardless of religion...
Feb 28, 2019, 8:27 AM
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I've learned as I get older and balder that hatred doesn't get you very far, nor does it do much for your health.
What's the quote? "Hating someone is like drinking poison and hoping it kills them"?
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All-In [26968]
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Good quote, and as true as can be.***
Feb 28, 2019, 8:28 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i would agree on both sides. but the hatred of Trump
Feb 28, 2019, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to Regardless of religion... ] |
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is gonna kill a lot of libs
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All-In [42197]
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The right wingers who hated Obama...
Feb 28, 2019, 2:17 PM
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Made it out okay.
See what I did there? A "But Obama"!
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All-In [28802]
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It's part of what made them like Trump
Feb 28, 2019, 4:24 PM
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Let's hope there's not a similar left-wing over-correction.
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Legend [15749]
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So I’m not an expert on Christian beliefs, but as I
Feb 28, 2019, 6:40 AM
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understand it, there are several passages in the Bible stating that a man may not be with another man. So, I don’t see any justification for Christians hating gay people, but I do see a reason for them not to have an official policy that supports what they believe God considers sinful behavior, right?
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Standout [345]
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Re: So I’m not an expert on Christian beliefs, but as I
Feb 28, 2019, 7:14 AM
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If there was more consistency, I think a lot of people looking at this type of thing would have less of an issue with it. There are plenty of things said in the bible that many Christians ignore. To those on the outside it looks like people are picking and choosing which parts to follow based on their personal feelings instead of anything God or Jesus said.
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Legend [15749]
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I’m sure there is a ton of hypocrisy, but I think you’d need
Feb 28, 2019, 7:52 AM
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to get specific. To illustrate, you often hear about behavior being considered sinful like sex out of wedlock, infidelity, lying, etc, within a Church community. But I don’t know how often you see a church publicly state that it supports infidelity in the same way many are demanding they support homosexuality or gay marriage.
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1st Rounder [616]
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Infidelity is very different from sexual orientation
Feb 28, 2019, 11:13 PM
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Infidelity is indeed behavior. It’s an action. There are sound reasons to oppose infidelity. People get hurt.
Sexual orientation is just who you are. It’s identity. And no one is hurt by gay marriage.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: Infidelity is very different from sexual orientation
Mar 2, 2019, 12:11 PM
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Although most of us are born with a biological gender. No one is born with a sexual identity. A person develops an identity over time based on preferences and choices. Usually a male child identifies with his father or other male in his life, learns masculinity, and eventually learns to exert his sexual desires upon females. Likewise a female child will identify with other females and so on. Some persons development take different paths for various reasons and are considerwd odd, queer, perverted, unnatural, effeminate, butch and so on.
Many who have not taken an unusual path fear those that have. It has been that way for millennia. Nothing can be done about it. Gays should quit hating straights and trying to change straights feelings and opinions about them.
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All-In [42197]
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All-In [28802]
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Please point to those attempts
Feb 28, 2019, 3:46 PM
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Is anybody still trying to make homosexual behavior illegal?
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1st Rounder [616]
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People who don’t think gay couples should be allowed to marry
Feb 28, 2019, 11:17 PM
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Are seeking a legal means to discriminate.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: So I’m not an expert on Christian beliefs, but as I
Feb 28, 2019, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to So I’m not an expert on Christian beliefs, but as I ] |
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But, nearly all of those passages are in the Old Testament, along with animal sacrifice and other complicated laws. When Jesus did his thing, he made the laws of the Old Testament null and void. Jesus also never once mentioned such a thing as a sin. Paul did, but Paul also reinforced Old Testament laws that Jesus eliminated.
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All-In [28802]
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Jesus didn't mention a lot of things
Feb 28, 2019, 3:45 PM
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That doesn't mean that Christianity has nothing to say about them. It also would've been hard to refer to an identity that didn't exist until around a hundred years ago. At that time, people weren't thought of according to a sexual orientation.
Also, Jesus did mention "sexual immorality," which is a translation of the word "porneia." Look up what that referred to at the time. It's more than just adultery.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: Jesus didn't mention a lot of things
Mar 2, 2019, 11:54 AM
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Jesus said he wasn't changing even one punctuatiin mark.
Homosexuals had an identity in ancient Rome. They were called "#### providers". Look it up.
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All-In [31907]
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Which ones? I don't personally know anyone that....
Feb 28, 2019, 6:42 AM
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hates gay people
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All-In [48078]
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All-In [31907]
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1. I don't know them, 2. you really think they are...
Feb 28, 2019, 8:07 AM
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Christians or at all representative?
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1st Rounder [616]
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everyone in my family is hateful to gay people
Feb 28, 2019, 11:25 PM
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They say things like they love the person but don’t condone the act. But sexual orientation is a pretty big part of who we are as people. And no one chooses to be gay. It’s just who they are. Someone who says they don’t condone gay sex are in effect rejecting who they are as people. This is not loving.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't choose who I am attracted to...
Mar 1, 2019, 6:28 AM
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Whether it be an actress, model, or the "hot" neighbor lady. But I sure choose what I do about that attraction.
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All-In [31907]
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1st Rounder [616]
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To gay people it all feels like intolerance and hate
Mar 1, 2019, 7:41 PM
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And I agree with them. To say you don’t think they should have gay sex is the same as saying you disapprove of who they are.
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All-In [31907]
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Disapproving is not hate***
Mar 2, 2019, 2:07 AM
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1st Rounder [616]
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You are perpetuating an intolerance that puts a wedge in families
Mar 2, 2019, 7:13 PM
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And assumes that someone is wrong for who they are, even though no one is harmed when a gay couple has sex. Your disapproval is perpetuating pain and is based on old or continuing prejudices. If it is not hate it has the same effect as hate.
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All-In [31907]
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I wasn't talking about me specifically...just saying...
Mar 3, 2019, 3:21 PM
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disapproval does not equal hate.
And, aren't you the one perpetuating intolerance?
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1st Rounder [616]
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Re: I wasn't talking about me specifically...just saying...
Mar 3, 2019, 4:49 PM
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Perhaps. But I have seen the pain this causes in families and for gay people. And I’m not the original source of the intolerance. It’s intolerance and not accepting gay people for who they are that I’m complaining about. If that goes away then I have no complaints.
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1st Rounder [616]
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You are perpetuating an intolerance that puts a wedge in families
Mar 2, 2019, 7:13 PM
[ in reply to Disapproving is not hate*** ] |
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And assumes that someone is wrong for who they are, even though no one is harmed when a gay couple has sex. Your disapproval is perpetuating pain and is based on old or continuing prejudices. If it is not hate it has the same effect as hate.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: So why can’t some Christians let go of hatred for gay people?
Feb 28, 2019, 7:08 AM
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No hate. Just reality.
God made man and woman. Pole goes in hole and we procreate and make this place a better earth. Hole to hole or peg to peg can’t procreate. Adds zero to life and the world. There isn’t an answer for it other that it doesn’t make sense.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: So why can’t some Christians let go of hatred for gay people?
Feb 28, 2019, 7:12 AM
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You're either gay or an idiot. You are one of the two if you worry about the issue. No straight rational male would care what gay people do. As a matter of fact, I would be fine being the last straight man on Earth. Why would I care? You are worried about adding more human beings to the planet? That's your worry? Wow.
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Legend [17918]
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I know some Christians who hate homesexual people
Feb 28, 2019, 7:35 AM
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I do what I can to correct them on that too. Perhaps they are people who harbor some shame and/or guilt from being abused as a child by a homosexual. Perhaps they just know someone who was. But, I agree that hate is not what God calls His people to do - no matter what.
Now, God also expects His people to identify sin and walk in a way so they do not embrace it with the "joy of the world." And as far as [ignoring] thousands of other passages...really? Does that statement reflect the hate you wear for Christians on your sleeve?
Hate is a sin, ya'know.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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This isn't a serious attempt to get answers. It's just a
Feb 28, 2019, 7:42 AM
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rhetorical insult.
In general, people tend to be disgusted by something that is opposite of normal.
When it comes to something as emotional as sex and physical attraction, to a person who is exclusively heterosexual it feels absolutely ridiculous and just "wrong" (not morally necessarily) to see dudes sexually attracted to each other.
I am no a Christian so I don't think it is immoral, but it is in the Bible because the dudes who wrote it were grossed out by homosexuals.
And now Christians, who believe that what those dudes wrote is actually the words of God, have to believe homosexuality is morally wrong, or they are inconsistent with the Bible.
As you point out, there are plenty of examples of inconsistencies with Christians, but the one about homosex will stick because it is one of the most uncomfortable things a heterosexual man can comprehend.
I mean, the idea of it is personally disgusting to me.... but I am pro-gay marriage.
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Heisman Winner [137978]
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My theory is that most people, religious or not, don't
Feb 28, 2019, 8:00 AM
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naturally hate gay people, just for being gay. But I believe the anti-gay ideology is pushed by closeted religious leaders out of a sense of guilt, or fear, or whatever drives them. I'm not sure what statistical data exists to bear this out, but anecdotally, that seems to be a pretty common story: the most hardcore, outspoken anti-homosexual preacher is the guy caught at a rest stop or an airport bathroom or whatever. If those guys weren't whipping their flocks up into frenzies, where would the level of care about homosexuality actually reside?
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All-In [42197]
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Fear tends to lead to the hate.
Feb 28, 2019, 8:14 AM
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Some Jedi master taught me that. Religious or not religious, I think some people are very much afraid of them and their lifestyles because it seems so unnatural to them and/or dangerous to their own sexuality. They fear it for their kids because they want their children to grow up, marry heterosexual, and have children.
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All-In [26968]
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You'd be surprised where Yoda may have gotten that...
Feb 28, 2019, 8:18 AM
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"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear" 1 John 4:18
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All-In [42197]
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Oh yeah, that doesn't surprise me.
Feb 28, 2019, 8:25 AM
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Lotta Biblical #### goin' on in Star Wars.
People often forget that the Bible is the most commonly alluded to source in all of English-language literature and film.
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Heisman Winner [137978]
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Probably some combination of the two.
Feb 28, 2019, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to Fear tends to lead to the hate. ] |
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Unfamiliarity leads to confusion leads to threat. Not only is homosex icky, but if it's possible that the homosexual might give it to me or my kids, well...the threat must be marginalized and eliminated however possible.
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All-In [28802]
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Or, like, you could take what they say seriously
Feb 28, 2019, 3:37 PM
[ in reply to Fear tends to lead to the hate. ] |
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and not just psychologize everything they say because YOU don't agree or understand.
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Legend [17294]
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Donnie says Kim writes nice letters. It’s OK to be chums.***
Feb 28, 2019, 8:10 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97738]
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Hate is such a loaded word, I'm not even going to respond.***
Feb 28, 2019, 8:22 AM
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Orange Blooded [4356]
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Self-loathing latent heaumeauxsechsuals***
Feb 28, 2019, 8:27 AM
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110%er [6155]
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Just because you don't support something, doesn't
Feb 28, 2019, 9:07 AM
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mean you hate it.
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Lot o points [155948]
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So why do so many atheists beat their wives?
Feb 28, 2019, 10:32 AM
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If you want intelligent discussion, at least pretend to be serious with how you begin the thread.
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Legend [15492]
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Austin apparently you didn't get the memo.
Feb 28, 2019, 1:43 PM
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People just love to hate.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: So why can’t some Christians let go of hatred for gay people?
Feb 28, 2019, 2:19 PM
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Why does it have to be “hate”. Why can’t I just disagree with their lifestyle?
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: So why can’t some Christians let go of hatred for gay people?
Feb 28, 2019, 8:20 PM
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Would you be ok with me saying I disagree with the lifestyle of people dying of cancer?
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All-In [48078]
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All-In [28802]
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Found a picture of OP
Feb 20, 2014, 4:18 PM
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Legend [18026]
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Pretentious answer:
Feb 28, 2019, 3:43 PM
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“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness Is like a villain with a smiling cheek, A goodly apple rotten at the heart. O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”
-Shakespeare
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All-In [28802]
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Which is not, actually, an argument against correctly citing
Feb 28, 2019, 4:16 PM
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scripture. I think Christians would agree with the sentiment, though.
In that quote, Antonio is arguing that Shylock is inappropriately using scripture to justify Shylock's charging of interest. And Shylock is charging his "pound of flesh" from Antonio as revenge for Antonio's insults. Shylock goes on to endure a show-trial where his sentence is to give Antonio half his wealth and to convert to Christianity. So that quote is actually much more ambiguous than you make it out to be, as a general principle about using scripture for purposes you consider bad.
Also, ironically, one reason Shylock is considered "bad" in the play, and perhaps why he's considered "an evil soul producing holy witness," is that... he's a Jew.
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Legend [18026]
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It wasn't an argument against correctly citing scripture
Feb 28, 2019, 5:20 PM
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It was an argument against using selective scripture for your own personal biases.
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Oculus Spirit [93674]
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Is this a coming out thread?
Mar 1, 2019, 8:27 PM
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I don't hate you, man.
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