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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 8:45 PM
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He waters down the gospel and is more concerned about how much tithe they are getting than actually telling someone the truth of scripture. He just leads people into a sinners prayer that isn't found anywhere in scripture. He is more concerned with entertaining people than telling them what they need to hear. Jesus gave us the model for church and what they do isn't anything like the model Christ gave. Does New Spring disciple the folks who they say are saved? Do they tell them 1John is what a christian is and not just because they prayed the sinners prayer? Why would Peter say make you calling and election sure if all you have to do is pray a prayer? Why did Paul say test your assurance to see if you're in the faith if all you gotta do is pray a prayer? Does he tell them that to know you have true repentance is that you continue to repent daily? If you can sin and it not bother you, are really saved?
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110%er [5465]
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Be like God wants you to be and don't judge. Until you know
Sep 4, 2012, 8:49 PM
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the relationship these people have with God just pray for them like they do for you. Not taking sides, but there are just as many traditional churches that do the same that you accuse Noble of. You know that the strip clubs in Nashville make the most money the week the Southern Baptist Convention is in town.
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110%er [5381]
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I'd just call him a nut job and leave it at that***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:50 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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CU Guru [1555]
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I'm no Noble supporter and certainly not a mega-church
Sep 4, 2012, 10:16 PM
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supporter, but you probably need to back off.
You sound pretty knowledgeable, but that only goes so far. What does Christ say about humility? Your attitude does not sound very humble. You are relying very heavily on your (as in YOU, ie not humble) opinion about Noble and the church he leads.
You say "you'll know them by their fruit." What is the fruit of a Christian? Is the fruit of a fig tree figs? Is the fruit of an apple tree apples? Is the fruit of a Christian then Christians? Does New Spring not baptize hundreds if not thousands of people every year at each of their campuses? If we are looking at this fruit alone and at face value, they look very fruitful.
My third point is this. You are coming onto a Clemson sports board to profess this personal opinion which is not the correct forum to express this kind of opinion. All that this can accomplish is stirring up animosity toward you and Perry Noble/New Spring. If this is your goal, that is not very Christ-like.
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Legend [19694]
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Christian fruit is the "fruit of the Spirit"
Sep 4, 2012, 10:53 PM
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baptisms are matters of the heart, which only God knows. Does the person exhibit "love, peace, joy, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control." this is how we know one is walking in the Spirit, and exhibiting the fruit of salvation. Repentance is also such a fruit
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CU Guru [1555]
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You do realize that Jesus said, "You'll know them by their
Sep 5, 2012, 7:06 AM
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fruit," and Paul wrote Galatians where the "fruit of the spirit" bit is, right? How you can say that is explicitly what Jesus was talking about (since Galatians was written many years later) is beyond me.
I think those are virtues of the spirit, but we as Christians are called to have fruit, as well. And I believe Christ told his disciples to go "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
However, this argument is truly irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Nowhere in scripture does it say that we should call out our brother on a Clemson sports forum. Nowhere does it say that we should have an attitude that ignores 90+% of professing Christians' rebuke of our method of expressing our faith. In fact, scripture tells us to be humble as Christ was - to the point of being willing to die. Bryant's attitude is anything but humble. It is incredibly arrogant, and this arrogance is repulsive to every Christian on this board.
Bryant, I'm still waiting for your response.
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Legend [19694]
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You do realize it was Jesus who taught Paul
Sep 5, 2012, 3:38 PM
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Galatians 1:11-12. There is also, to the point, fruit of righteousness and the fruit of repentance, both established by the fruit of the Spirit being exhibited in a Christians life. No one knows if a person is saved because they are baptized, or attend church. Only God can judge the heart. We can be fruit inspectors, but the fruit that should be evident in a Christians life is the fruit of the Spirit.As for the charges raised by Bryanttiger, they are on the appropriate board now. He has a right to his opinion, but personally, if I'm going to expose false teaching and a false teacher I'm going to give specific examples of where they are contradicting the gospel, not an overview of a style of church I may or may not agree with
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110%er [5307]
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I have no dog in this fight, not Mike Vick ,but...
Sep 4, 2012, 8:51 PM
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Just because it not the same thing Granny is used to, does it mean he is wrong?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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It is when the gospel is watered down and I have heard many
Sep 4, 2012, 8:53 PM
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of his sermons
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110%er [5307]
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What do you mean watered down? Cliff notes?***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:56 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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110%er [6937]
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Re: John MacArthur's mouth is no prayer book. He has had
Sep 4, 2012, 9:09 PM
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to back down and modify many of his statements.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: John MacArthur's mouth is no prayer book. He has had
Sep 4, 2012, 9:10 PM
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Please show me proof of this. I read his blogs everyday and have never heard him say any of this
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110%er [6937]
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Re:He backed up on his statements about Billy Graham. i
Sep 4, 2012, 9:37 PM
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read his blogs and find him to be a very good writer and speaker but I tend to be leery of a salesman who runs down his competitor's products rather than
extoll his own. There have been too many of this kind.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Perry Noble has blasted John Macarthur
Sep 4, 2012, 10:08 PM
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and has refused to even listen to him. You never disrespect an elder and to not listen to a man who has been saved for 60 years like Macarthur is arrogant and stupid. When I listen to him I find no mistakes when I search the scriptures, but find many when Noble preaches. I don't take what someone says as fact, I search the scriptures to see if these things be so. I never believed just because of what I was taught, but search the scriptures for myself and by that found that the Independent Baptist was wrong and that the KJV isn't the only bible we can use or women wearing britches is wrong. If the Bible doesn't teach it, then it isn't biblical and from God. God told us how the church is to be molded and isn't right to mold it based on your or our opinion.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: That is kind of like saying I am going to believe this
Sep 4, 2012, 10:28 PM
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one because he has only made one mistake and the other has made two. We all make them. The fact that Macarthur has been around 60 years mean nothing. He may be only continuing with the mistake that he made 59 years ago.
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Scout Team [184]
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Re: That is kind of like saying I am going to believe this
Sep 5, 2012, 1:28 PM
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MacArthur is as solid as they come. Very well respected in the Church as a whole and a gifted communicator and expository of God's Word. Few people know and can articulate the Bible like John MacArthur.
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Orange Blooded [2293]
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 8:51 PM
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Holy crap get off the football board with this.
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All-In [39020]
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Nope, sorry.
Sep 4, 2012, 8:58 PM
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Once you start posting baptisms as 'football player updates,' you open the board up to this discussion. Perry Noble is the team chaplain now. Newspring is apparently the 'unofficial' church of the Clemson football team. It was all hallelujas and claps on the back when the baptisms were posted, and this is the other side of that coin.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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^^^^.***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:59 PM
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Zealot [708]
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Oh Dear Lord!
Sep 4, 2012, 8:52 PM
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Why does it bother you so much what New Spring does? New Spring and Perry obviously connect with a lot of people, so if you don't like what they do then don't worry about it. Worry about something you have control of instead of things you have no control of. And why post it here? You are obviously just looking to start controversy.
New Spring is an easy place to find, so just go up there and let them know how you feel, instead of starting a thread on a college sports board.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Oh Dear Lord!
Sep 4, 2012, 8:54 PM
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Because people are being deceived and as a christian that better bother me
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Zealot [708]
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Re: Oh Dear Lord!
Sep 4, 2012, 8:57 PM
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My bad. Yeah you'll get it fixed here I'm sure. TigerNet.....the place where the deceived get saved.
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: Oh Dear Lord!
Sep 4, 2012, 8:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Oh Dear Lord! ] |
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Sounds like you have your own issues to deal with. This is a SPORTS message board. I go to NS and everything you say about Perry and the church is wrong. You are about 8 years too late to start these rumors. Did you hear about our kool aid? What about nude Sundays? Hilarious.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble
Sep 4, 2012, 9:02 PM
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I have listened to a lot and I mean a lot of his messages. He may sprinkle in a few good things, but his message is mostly to tell the audience what they want to hear and what makes them happy.
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble
Sep 4, 2012, 9:09 PM
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Now I know you are just trying to start trouble. You are saying the EXACT opposite of what happens there every Sunday. Make them happy? This is sarcasm right? I hope you actually go there one day and bring up your concerns. I was raised in a traditional church and I saw maybe 30 people saved in 20 years. I have seen THOUSANDS saved at NewSpring in my 8 years there including my 3 children. THAT is what makes me happy. Don't you dare discount their salvations because you have a bone to pick with Perry. I don't know where you go to church, but I'm sure they wouldn't agree with your bashing of Christians. Whether you like them or not.
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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Re: No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble
Sep 4, 2012, 9:17 PM
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Amen HotRod!
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble
Sep 4, 2012, 9:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble ] |
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So you know they were saved? If so many were being saved like these churches say, then this country would be in a whole lot better shape
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble
Sep 4, 2012, 9:40 PM
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Actually, I think the country would be in better shape if Christians weren't their own worst enemy. You are really playing with fire when you judge others and question their hearts. I have been a Christian for 29 years but i still learn things all the time.
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Recruit [89]
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Re: No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble
Sep 4, 2012, 10:03 PM
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You have been a Christian for 29 years and you don't understand Matthew 7:1-6? Jesus does call for Christians to judge. We are to judge other Christians and we will know them by their fruit. We are not to judge outside the church (the body of Christ), because we don't have to, God does that. If you can get past the "judge not lest ye be judged" part of Matthew 7, you will see that Christians are to be discerning, BUT they are to do it only after confessing their own sins and "removing the plank from their own eye."
Please take time to STUDY Matthew 7. This is critical to a Christian's life.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Joined: 1/2/11
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You'll know them by their fruits
Sep 4, 2012, 10:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: No i'm not wrong about Perry Noble ] |
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We can't judge anyones hearts but we can judge their fruit and lives they live. Jesus said if the tree doesn't bear fruit to cut it down and throw it in the fire, so we are to judge fruit. I don't know who is saved or not, but we're not to get them down to the alter and get them to repeat a prayer and pronounce them saved. No where in scripture does it have the sinners prayer. We should never count on something we did, but what Christ did and our lives being for him and not the world. I go by what Perry preaches and when placed up against scripture it isn't true, so therefore he should change instead of blasting someone for daring to question him. If we love someone we warn them and I don't get mad when someone tells me i'm wrong, I search the scriptures to see if I am wrong and if I am, I change and thank them for loving me and telling me the truth and warning me
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Athletic Dir [864]
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Please move this to the lounge or amphitheater..thanks***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:54 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Please move this to the lounge or amphitheater..thanks***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:55 PM
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No one made you click did they?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:55 PM
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1st Rounder [629]
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Who is Perry Noble and what is New Spring/ We don't play
Sep 4, 2012, 8:56 PM
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them do we?
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CU Guru [1650]
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My president is a Muslim...***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:57 PM
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110%er [5307]
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Couldn't leave the turd be....had to add corn***
Sep 4, 2012, 8:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Athletic Dir [875]
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Even if he is I see no problem with that
Sep 4, 2012, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to My president is a Muslim...*** ] |
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Most muslims are much more devoted to their faith than any other religion, and they believe in the same God as most here.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Even if he is I see no problem with that
Sep 4, 2012, 9:36 PM
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They believe Jesus is God? No they don't
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Athletic Dir [875]
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and 1 or both of you are wrong***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:49 PM
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Athletic Dir [875]
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They believe it you and you believe its them
Sep 4, 2012, 9:49 PM
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Why not focus on the similarities.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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We can disagree on things
Sep 4, 2012, 9:54 PM
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but when it comes to the gospel, there is no room to get that wrong. Just let scripture say what it says. I learned to get what I feel is right and fair and just let it say what it says
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All-TigerNet [11201]
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How do you know you're right?
Sep 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Jesus' disciples were charged with going out and spreading the gospel...do you think they all told the exact same story, preached the exact same way, and said the exact same things?
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Varsity [220]
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Man, I usually like your posts, but you're just being
Sep 4, 2012, 8:59 PM
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so Southern Baptist with your assertions on whether you believe the right thing or whether he's right. There's enough arguing with the heathens around here without Christians arguing over who's preaching the most true form of the Gospel.What he's doing with the younger generation is far better than trusting my youngin' to the Five Points doctrine.
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CU Guru [1313]
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An excellent point, sir.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:05 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Man, I usually like your posts, but you're just being
Sep 4, 2012, 9:06 PM
[ in reply to Man, I usually like your posts, but you're just being ] |
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If it isn't Christ crucified, then it is just as dangerous. Not in the business of telling people what they want to hear or being concerned how they can have their best life now, but concerned if they truly know Jesus Christ and more than that if Jesus Christ truly knows them. As Jesus will say to many, who say Lord Lord haven't we done this and done that in your name, and Jesus will say depart from me ye worker of iniquity. Matthew 7
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: Man, I usually like your posts, but you're just being
Sep 4, 2012, 9:16 PM
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never heard ANYONE preach about needing JESUS more than Perry Noble. Explains the thousands of salvations that have happened there. I personally get to talk to alot of people every Sunday who's lives were changed because they found JESUS. We have had a lot of people leave the church because they didn't want to deal with their sin. It's EXACTLY the opposite of what you said. Preaching from the Bible EVERY Sunday, ALWAYS about JESUS, NEVER watered down. I've never heard a more blasphemes thing said about NS.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Man, I usually like your posts, but you're just being
Sep 4, 2012, 9:38 PM
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MANY will say to me on that day LORD LORD, have we not done this, have we not done that and he will say to them depart from me ye worker of iniquity. That sounds like many who believe themselves to be saved. Narrow is the way and few there be that find it
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: Man, I usually like your posts, but you're just being
Sep 4, 2012, 9:45 PM
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amazing arrogance
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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CU Guru [1198]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:04 PM
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We have freedom of religion in this country, the last time I checked. If you don't like what Perry Noble and his church believe you're welcome to go to another one.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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I have freedom in Christ and I will do as he said and stand
Sep 4, 2012, 9:07 PM
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against false teaching. Yes he has the freedom to tell people lies as I have to stand against and warn folks of his heresy
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I have freedom in Christ and I will do as he said and stand
Sep 4, 2012, 10:20 PM
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Luke 9:3 And He said to them, “Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.
4 “Whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. 5 And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”
I think it's time to shake the dust from your feet bud. A good Christian will plant a seed and let it grow. An over zealous Christian will plant a seed and constantly water it until it drowns.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I have to agree.***
Sep 4, 2012, 10:30 PM
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Letterman [280]
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Always judging people, what Christians do best.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:06 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Always judging people, what Christians do best.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:08 PM
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You'll know them by their fruit
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CU Guru [1928]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:07 PM
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everyone has opinions, but for some reason you cant keep them to yourself..
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All-In [39020]
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Nor can Jeff Scott.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:09 PM
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All-In [39020]
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And so it goes.
Sep 4, 2012, 9:07 PM
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Religions adapt or they die. What you refer to as the "true gospel," is no doubt a watered down form of the gospel that a bygone generation heard. Whatever was watered down, it was done because it was no longer marketable to the younger generations.
Churches say whatever they have to say to get people in the pews. If they don't, they die. If your church insists on delivering a message that doesn't entice young people, it will perish and be replaced by a church that will say or do whatever it has to in order to get members and money.
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CU Guru [1928]
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Re: And so it goes.
Sep 4, 2012, 9:11 PM
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not sure i have ever heard an arguement that consisted of i am more christian than you? How foolish does that sound?
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All-In [39020]
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I can't believe you've never heard that argument.
Sep 4, 2012, 9:14 PM
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Sometimes Christians will just outright deny another's Christianity if they don't like his actions. It's happened on this board within the past 24 hours. You've surely heard this. "They're the type of person who says they're a Christian but actually isn't."
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Like in the post that started this thread.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:17 PM
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Commissioner [981]
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All-In [39020]
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Yes, exactly like the Al Qaeda sleeper agent that is
Sep 4, 2012, 9:21 PM
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the President of the United States, you ####### nutjob.
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: hahaha most fun Ive ever had on here, thanks!***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:23 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-In [39020]
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Good thing scripture isn't vague and open to interpretation.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:20 PM
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CU Medallion [58415]
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LOL! That's what is so hysterical about this. I'm sure Perry
Sep 4, 2012, 9:25 PM
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Noble would tell you he is adhering to scripture.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: LOL! That's what is so hysterical about this. I'm sure Perry
Sep 4, 2012, 9:39 PM
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Yep he'd tell me but his messages say otherwise
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Not according to him.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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That's a lie, our church has been there for 138 years
Sep 4, 2012, 9:17 PM
[ in reply to And so it goes. ] |
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and our Pastor isn't concerned if you leave happy or have your best life now, but to tell you the truth of God's word. The gates of hell will not prevail against his church. If you go over sea's this so called preaching is hated and called what it is and those Christian risk dying if they're found to be a Christian. A man came to my dad once and asked what do you have for our kids, he simply said the same as for the adults, the word of God. sadly that wasn't good enough for them. If God's word being preached isn't good enough or bores you, then you have a serious problem. Notice Jesus never changed to get a big crowed. When Jesus told them the truth the large crowd always left. Jesus said the gospel is offensive, if persecution comes to America how many will remain at New Spring? How many will be willing to lay their life down for Christ? How many would deny him?
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All-In [39020]
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Its past does not ensure its future.
Sep 4, 2012, 9:19 PM
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And if persecution ever comes to America, it won't be Christians in peril.
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110%er [5465]
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Letterman [265]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Nope, I lovingly tell people about Jesus
Sep 4, 2012, 9:49 PM
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Paul stood on the corner, Peter and all the disciples. John the baptist did and they all were killed for telling the truth. No I don't yell at people, i tell them about Jesus and his dying for man.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: True but somethings don't change.***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:42 PM
[ in reply to And so it goes. ] |
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: Grabs popcorn as I just had a flame out on fb about
Sep 4, 2012, 9:10 PM
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this very thing. I should thank Perry, his movement which has shifted all other churches to modern/seekerism pointed me towards Rome.
Veritas
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All-In [28802]
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I didn't get that at all when I went there for 3 years
Sep 4, 2012, 9:11 PM
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and I consider myself to be conservative on the Bible and orthodox in belief. To me, attacks like these come from people who have been in more traditional churches, often with leaders who lack charisma or in communities that lack spirit, and from those who would elevate a stolid tradition over growth. Newspring, like any church, isn't perfect, and Perry Noble is as flawed (maybe more) than anybody. But I don't think this kind of criticism is either necessary or effective, as when it comes from less thriving Christian communities (or less thriving Christians; in my own experience, I often feel suspicious of anybody who seems more mature in thair faith than I am, or who is more enthusiastic) it makes them look small to both Christian and non-Christian, and it only feeds the flame of those who wish harm to the church.
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All-In [28802]
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and all of the things you say they don't do, they do***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:12 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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I couldn't careless how america does Church
Sep 4, 2012, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to I didn't get that at all when I went there for 3 years ] |
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Jesus gave us the model in the book of Acts, yet for whatever reason, many think they can model their own way. Please show me in scripture where it states this
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All-In [28802]
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what denomination do you belong to?
Sep 4, 2012, 9:33 PM
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Just curious. Because it sounds like you're probably Pentecostal/ Church of God.
At any rate, nowhere in scripture does it say that we have to intone certain words in worship, that our music needs to be of a certain style, or that we shouldn't speak in the idiom of the time. What it does say is that spirit led worship should be orderly, that it should preach Christ, and that the Holy Spirit often leads people to where the lost are. An easy illustration of the absurdity of insisting on a particular language and style of worship can be had by thinking about just how impossible it would be to teach non-english speaking, non-western people about Christ if we refused to speak to them in anything but Aramaic and if we would not teach anywhere but in a church with a particular style of architecture that may not be feasible.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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No i'm baptist, try our hardest to be solo scriptura
Sep 4, 2012, 9:40 PM
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110%er [5465]
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I don 't follow Perry but am attending a similar church
Sep 4, 2012, 9:12 PM
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Just a lot smaller. I can honestly say that i have learned more about being a Godly person than i ever did attending a vey well respected baptist church for 25 years. Nothing against either, it just a matter of being where you feel closest to God. I can also tell you that i see more volunteerism in the community from these new age churches and it is evident that they are doing it because of their relationship andd love for Jesus. If you see something wrong with that then I'm afraid it may be your doctrine that is flawed.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: I don 't follow Perry but am attending a similar church
Sep 4, 2012, 9:26 PM
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It's all about doctrine and the gospel. Getting people to come to the alter and repeat a prayer is false and isn't found in scripture. I am more concerned about what Christ says is right than what I may feel. I don't count on what I feel is right, but what Christ word says is right. Christ gave is a model of church and I will do as he says and not go to a church where they model it based on what people want. Oprah Winfery does many wonderful things, but doesn't believe Jesus is the Only way as Christ said he was. Doing good things as we see as good, doesn't mean you are saved or doing the will of God. We are to always do good to the community, but not at the risk of watering down the gospel to get people in the pews. God builds the church, not us
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Amateur [38]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:12 PM
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Dangerous to make such a declaration...very dangerous! Why do we feel the need to tear down anything that reaches a certain level of success...based on your logic I guess ...sammy.nuke, and malicah are all lost bc they said the prayer of salvation under a false teacher...careful brother ..go back and pray about it!!!!!!!!!!!
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Orange Blooded [4675]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:13 PM
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Amen. Agree 100%
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Success has nothing to do with preaching the truth
Sep 4, 2012, 9:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher ] |
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I listen to him preach and find many things he says isn't what the Bible says. If it doesn't line up with scripture then I will stand against it. Just because hundreds are flocking to the alter, doesn't mean it is real. Do they watch them to make sure it was real? Scripture tells us to disciple them? Too many say I'm, why? cause I prayed a prayer when I was young, yet I lived as if Christ never did a work in me. Let perry noble start telling the people the truth and not what they want to hear, but just simply preach the word and see how many stay. Just when Paul Washer preached the truth and everything he said was from scripture, yet they were so mad they told him to leave and never come back. Don't dare tell folks if their life isn't Christ like, then you're not saved. Even though 1John teaches this. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, for if you love the world, the love of the Father isn't in you. How to know you are of the Lord, by keeping his commadments 1John
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Zealot [708]
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Re: Success has nothing to do with preaching the truth
Sep 4, 2012, 9:51 PM
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Since you're so against what Perry and New Spring, and claim they are teaching things that aren't in the Bible, then why haven't you gone up there and confronted them? I promise Perry would listen to you. But instead you'd rather talk behind their backs on a sports board? Nice approach.
You say "If it doesn't line up with scripture then I will stand against it."
This is your way of standing against it? You can walk right in and if you say to them what you say here then you'll be talking to Perry in about 5 minutes.
So big man, head on up there and preach it!
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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What good would that do, may have and he
Sep 4, 2012, 9:52 PM
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just mocks them. I have spoken to Perry Noble before and many leaders in his church
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:30 PM
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I never thought I'd be discussing religion on a football board, but I feel like this calls for me to speak up. One of the main reasons I chose to go to New Spring is because it is a church where there are NO perfect people, including Perry and the rest of the staff. He openly admit that he is not perfect and sins (just like the rest of us); something that I had NEVER heard a pastor do before! For the first time in my life, I walked into a church building without feeling like I was being judged by strangers. Instead, I felt immediately welcomed and right at home. Though I was among thousands of people rather than the usual 75 or so, I felt more close to God in a church setting that I had in my entire life.
I admit the ways of New Spring are unconventional, but if you have noticed anything about the world around you, it is very unconventional as well. If you are expecting all sorts of people from all different kinds of backgrounds to come into one type of church with rigidity and no flexibility, then good luck keeping them. Jesus was anything but ordinary and I believe the practices of NewSpring are anything but ordinary because like Jesus, the church seeks to reach people.
As far as tithing, ten percent is stated in the BIBLE. Perry didn't say that, the BIBLE did. If tithing is a scam, are you implying that the Bible is one as well?
I encourage you to realize that though it may not be in the way you would see fit, new brothers and sisters are being reached for God. No Christian should have a problem with fulfilling the Great Commission. I am proud of Nuke and our boys for becoming something bigger than themselves and establishing themselves as role models on and off the field. If you have any problems with that, I suggest you rethink your priorities.
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: Hold it now, tithing is not the way to salvation
Sep 4, 2012, 9:36 PM
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your heretic flock leader has even spoken of 'there would be less gay people in America if there was more tithing'.
Ive been there a few times around 5 years or so ago, just to see if the shoe fit. It didn't. What I got was a lame Nickleback cover show and 10 minutes of talking about Clemson football (it applies here as he is the chaplain now), and then talking about how great NS was, ripping other churches, who he met last week in Los Angeles, what kind of car he wanted, and how much he loves to eat.
Jesus came in there once when the sappy music cued and the offering pillow cases (not plates) were passed around.
Point is his whole message is about tithing and how great his church is. Tithing seems to be the only thing from the old testament these churches remember.
PS Ive never felt more judged than when I walk in there, with their false predatory smiles and in group/ out group mentality.
I also got yelled at in a gas station when Will Merritt preached there and I said I enjoyed him more than Perry.
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CU Guru [1928]
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Re: Hold it now, tithing is not the way to salvation
Sep 4, 2012, 9:39 PM
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there wouldnt be any gays without straight parents..chew on that for a bit
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Commissioner [981]
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Re:Chewing. Get mad if you want to I'm just repeating
Sep 4, 2012, 9:44 PM
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what you're guy said. I think he is wrong, dead wrong about that.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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I don't get mad
Sep 4, 2012, 9:51 PM
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You can believe how you want and so can I.
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Commissioner [981]
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Re:Re: Que? That was to JD Tiger***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:54 PM
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null
Message was edited by: deletedmemory®
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Hold it now, tithing is not the way to salvation
Sep 4, 2012, 9:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hold it now, tithing is not the way to salvation ] |
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I most certainly never said tithing was the way to salvation...did I? The way in my opinion is by admitting that one is not perfect and the only way to Heaven is by believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and he can save one from their sins.
I am sorry NewSpring wasn't right for you, but no church is a one size fits all for everyone! My point is...why is everyone so busy knocking churches when there are still people out there who have no knowledge of Jesus? If churches in their own ways are seeking to help a hurting world, what is the use of bickering about how it is done?
And PS...My pastor is not a heretic, and I am not a sheep of his...just God's. Once again, I am sorry things did not work out for you and I pray that you could find somewhere that did work for you.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Hold it now, tithing is not the way to salvation
Sep 4, 2012, 9:55 PM
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Acts is the model to church.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Really? We're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God
Sep 4, 2012, 9:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher ] |
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but as Christians we get back up and fight against our sin and flesh. If your sin doesn't bother you, then you're not saved. I can't sin and know it cost my Lord his life and be ok with it. I try everyday to repent and ask my Lord for forgiveness when I sin. If you know you're about to sin and do it anyway, then you're just slapping Jesus in the face as to say I know he had to bear this, but gonna do it anyway. We all fall into this, but it's how you react when you do. I try my hardest to get scripture right as it is a serious thing. I will tell people the truth rather they like it or not. Jesus said the gospel is offensive and by that folks won't like it. Do people like to hear offensive things? Did the crowd stay with Jesus? No they left him when he didn't give them what they wanted, they didn't care what he had to say, but Christ never changed and the church isn't to change from the model he gave in acts. No where in scripture does it tell us it's ok to change the way church is
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Really? We're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God
Sep 4, 2012, 9:51 PM
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Well I guess that's where we will have to agree to disagree  Things outside of the world have changed sooooo much since the time of Jesus, and Jesus often times went to places he never would have to reach people. As long as people are learning about Jesus, I don't see what the problem is, and perhaps we can both agree on that.
And I know we can all agree on this...GO TIGERS! Ya'll have a good night.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Really? We're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God
Sep 4, 2012, 9:57 PM
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Yeah but we aren't to do whatever to get folks in the pews. But to tell them the truth, rather they like it or not. Preach what the Bible says and that is all. Our opinions mean nothing, but what the Bible says
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Also yes we can agree to disagree and
Sep 4, 2012, 9:57 PM
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that is fine. God Bless you too and yes we do both agree on Go Tigers
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Scout Team [176]
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Re: Really? We're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God
Sep 4, 2012, 10:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Really? We're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God ] |
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Here's what I've heard Perry say...in summary and in all of his sermons....there is no means to salvation, but through Jesus Christ. That's the bottom line..no other way.
That is the truth and I have heard him preach the truth..over and over..straight from the Word. There is no deceiving with that message.
And it is about getting people in the pews...so that they, being lost in sin, may hear the Word and yes, whether they like it or not...tell them the Truth. Every number has a name, every name has a story and every story matters. That quirky little phrase has a lot of meat...get the people to the message so that they may hear !
Newspring Church is changing peoples lives...I've seen my 33 year old son more immersed in studying the Word and serving others than at any time in his life. As someone said above, that can not be discounted.
Peace to you brother. Certainly not here to argue but you've stated your opinion and gone on to say it means nothing...what was your purpose here ?
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Recruit [83]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:40 PM
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This came up a while back:
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12092985
What makes a cult, a cult. Is Newspring one?
Here are some relatively well-agreed upon traits for cults. An organization having one of these traits does not make it anywhere near a cult. Some are more important than others.
As someone who attended Newspring for several years (believe it or not) and with many friends both in the congregation and staff, I'll just give my honest opinion on the matter.
My own view is that Newspring isn't a cult... but it's followers certain act "cultish."
*Veneration of a leader
To me, this is unequivocally true at Newspring. To say that Newspring's congregation doesn't vouchsafe rock-star status in their Pastor is a bold-faced lie. Perry does give cursory warnings that he is not perfect, and need not be the subject of idolatory-- however, if you've been to Newspring for any length of time, it's hard to ignore the number of times Perry has dedicated large swaths of his sermons to defenses of himself, or thinly-veiled self-aggrandizing (See the number of times in a sermon he has refuted his critiques by chanting "scoreboard.")
Perhaps the best way to describe the trait at Newspring is "supremacy of the leader." Newspring has something like eight campuses. They usually watch Perry live via streaming video. Doesn't that make you stop for just a second? It has to be him.
For what I find a funny, ironic example, watch this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECNtPxOl1bo
Perry starts off by criticizing his congregation for making church about Perry and not Jesus. Then he proceeds to talk about himself for five minutes. Just found it mildly amusing.
*Inerrancy of the leader
This is debatable; while I doubt that more than a handful of zealots actually think Perry is perfect, I do think that any criticism of Perry is very routinely taken with hostility. Because...
*Dissent is discouraged
Again, I cannot see how this can even be denied, if you've attended Newspring long enough. The turnover at Newspring and their support staff is significant. Say the wrong thing, criticize the wrong person, and you're out. I've seen many members raise valid concerns via email or phone call, only to be snidely told "If you don't like it, don't go here." See the entire fiasco involving Anderson professor James Duncan, when he wrote a letter to the editor. More to come on this.
More to the point-- just have a conversation with a typical, rabid Newspringer. Tell them that you don't like big churches, or that you don't think it's biblical, or that it seems cultish. I think you'll find the responses tend to be significantly less measured than the ones on this board. That has been my experience anyway. There is a ferocity and vitriol, lurking, at the ready, in the minds and hearts of many of these people.
*Absolute Truth
Yep. But this goes for most religious organizations.
*Absolute Morality
Yep.
*In Group/Out Group Mentality (Isolation of the "other)
Absolutely. Again, if you've been to Newspring long enough, and have a criticism, or leave-- try to have a conversation with the current members. They isolate themselves from OTHER Christians who aren't Newspringers. The number of times Perry uses isolationist rhetoric in regard to his critics and other Christians is astounding to me. Again, this is a generalization, but reflective of my personal experience. I have seen and heard MANY times, Newsprings accuse Christians of being false prophets or unbelievers because they dislike Newspring or Perry.
*Ends Justify the Means
Sure. I don't think I'm the only person that found Newspring to be going out of its way to be secular and "unequally yoked." The sermons are superficial, the music ultra-contemporary, and the language from the pulpit presses and passes the limits of what is traditionally acceptable. Why? Because Newspring is about two things; more members and more money. Newspring has embarked upon a pretty significant shift in how to "reach" people.
*Deceit and hidden agendas
I think this ties into the next point...
*Financial exploitation
Newspring has made tens of millions of dollars.
They are the richest church in the state. Yet they seemingly charge for everything. Someone told me the membership class costs money (it's actually called an "ownership class" now). I cannot vouch for if this is true or was ever true.
Their schemes for making money are ubiquitous. Perry holds "conversations" with Pastors who want to grow their churches, and charges them 100 bucks a person for the service. Want to serve Newspring and your lord by going to Kenya on a mission trip? Better be willing to drop 4 grand.
Over half of Newpsring's budget goes to personnel salary and benefits. That seems awfully high for a "missions based ministry." Newspring, along with vocally pushing tithing and giving, has had several multi-million dollar capital campaigns. Newspring preaches against debt, but pushes online giving via credit cards.
I don't know. Just seems awfully, awfully money-minded to me. And please don't start with the "you're just jealous they have so much money" crap. I don't go to church. I don't have a "house" to compare.
*Mind-altering practices
I think the entire process by which music, lighting, mood, and ambiance are used to incite desired emotions (guilt, bliss, relief, consolation) is common to most religions.
Newspring does it well.
*Lack of accountability
This, to me, is a big one. The upper echelon of Newspring is untouchable. Call me old school-- a "church" is supposed to be a body. It's a cooperative. The congregation of Newspring and the community at large has no say in their own collective experience at the "church." Perry and his inner circle don't lead; they rule. They are untouchable.
If you haven't heard about what some of Newspring's staff did to the Anderson University professor, read this
http://www.pajamapages.com/holy-rage-at-the-spring-2/
The lack of accountability reeks.
*Aggressive recruitment practices
I'd say so. Billboards, TV, Radio, Twitter, Facebook...
*Propaganda techniques.
See above.
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:47 PM
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Ownership classes are actually free. They even provide you with free food!
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110%er [5465]
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Amateur [31]
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Legend [19694]
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Finally some substance
Sep 4, 2012, 11:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher ] |
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the Duncan blogs are eye opening. I read them when they were being written. He was clearly targeted. Personally, I believe attractional, seeker churches such as Newspring wind up spotlighting themselves far more than Christ. I am positive there are many sincere, faithful believers who attend there. But IMO, based upon scripture, this style of church is the exact opposite of what was practiced in Acts.
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110%er [5977]
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Bryanttiger Perry has spent less time preaching about
Sep 4, 2012, 9:41 PM
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titheing than any church I have ever attended and it is not even close. If you don't know the answers to your questions then you should not be attacking the church. Paul also said you can only judge those in your church it is up to Christ to judge all the others. The Apostle creed isn't in the Bible and almost every Christian church use it does yours? I can send you several sermons that you can listen to and see if you find any false teachings. They have lots of programs to help knew members strenghen their faith and every member including myself is a sinner and always will be a sinner. I ask Christ to forgive me of my sins everyday and help strenghten me with my weakness but I still sin. They try to creat a church that any sinner and unbeliever will feel welcome in no matter how they come and that is the way church should be and it is biblical.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Bryanttiger Perry has spent less time preaching about
Sep 4, 2012, 9:58 PM
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Where have I said anything about tithing?
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Freshman [0]
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Re: Bryanttiger Perry has spent less time preaching about
Sep 5, 2012, 4:24 PM
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In the first sentence of your first post.
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Associate AD [845]
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Confused
Sep 4, 2012, 9:42 PM
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I thought this was the Tiger Football forum
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: Perry Noble is the team chaplain, it applies***
Sep 4, 2012, 9:45 PM
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Savant [480]
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I don't go to newspring
Sep 4, 2012, 9:47 PM
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But listening to the OP, makes me think of this verse. Mat. 5:10. Newspring is doing something right.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: I don't go to newspring
Sep 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Matt 5:10 is speaking of the demons in the man. Did ya know that the town asked Jesus to leave, even though he had done a wonderful work?
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All-In [46565]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:50 PM
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Go online and you can watch any series of Ministry from the Church he has been blessed to preach at.
It's NewSpring Church.com media archives.
It may not look like your Daddy's church but it is a church that loves Jesus.
No perfect people in that church and if you go and your perfect you'll mess it up.
Young believers
in Christ that have never been to church are going to take time to grow.
Is the business of young believers messy? You bet they are.
I challenge you to find a church with a body with as many young believers.
Unreal how many folks have asked for forgiveness and accepted Jesus into there life there.
I've never heard of any church have as many get saved and baptized as Newspring in the last few years.
I live in North Carolina and grew up as a ministers son in Iva, SC. But I have not lived in SC since college in the early 90's.
I was taught old school Church the old songs and the King James only church.
I still love that church and those folks but I had to study an see exactly what the bible said about many things I had been taught.
Crazy thing happened when I realized that many things were church traditions or rules and not in the word of God.
In the book of Revelation there were 12 churches that God had a message for. They all served in a different way and had different gifts but all were a part of the body of Christ.
We should be very careful when putting God in a box that we like instead of realizing that he is Great beyond our imagination.
His gifts and ways are Heavenly and ours are earthly. Because you don't go to my church or do it my way doesn't put me in a place of judgement over others who worship or serve different than I.
The ocean is full of God's beautiful designs because he is the most awesome creator. In the same way he gifts His church in different ways to bring people to Jesus and to serve in His purpose and glory.
Not sure why some people don't like Perry from the sermons I've heard but that is your choice whether it is the ten percent tithes(Most churches use this standard) or the way he dresses(I challenge you to find that anywhere in the bible) or the music (that over the last 400 years has changed many times with folks balking at it each time lol) or the unsaved folks coming and finding Jesus at a rate that is unlike anything we have seen in our lifetime. That he can't visit His members in the hospital with twenty thousand members.
That's like saying Dabo didn't even speak to me at the Clemson game or fans day. lol
From hearing His podcast I know he has been a passionate Clemson fan for many years.
If we got all of us Clemson friends together and we asked who was a Jesus believer most of the guys would say me but all of us would have different ways of worshiping, praying, singing, and understanding God's word.
I would never put Perry on a pedestal because he fails and sins just like the rest of us. I do believe from hearing him that he is gifted to be a minister of God that loves Jesus and preaches His word.
Calling Him a False Prophet is something I would never do. But if you feel that way I still love ya Bro! I know Perry would too.
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Amateur [31]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 9:51 PM
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I don't have time to rebuke all of your frivolous claims about newspring but I can say that I have been going there for 3 years and I have become a much stronger Christian because of it. I previously went to a First Baptist church and that is where my relationship with Christ was founded, but newspring has helped me grow to new heights in my faith. I noticed that many people were bringing up the financials at newspring and nobody bothered to actually take a look at them. Here is newspring's annual report for last year:
http://newspring.cc/annualreport/
They spent 30% on staff budgets, where the average for churches over 10,000 is 42%.
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Amateur [31]
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Newspring financials
Sep 4, 2012, 9:52 PM
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Forgot to mention that the financial info is on page 12
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Devotee [334]
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800k jump in staff salaries in one year
Sep 4, 2012, 10:21 PM
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That is pretty impressive......I am sure the Sunday school teachers all appreciate the pay bump. And operating expenses went down 200k at the same time, love the distribution of new found giving.
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Amateur [31]
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Re: 800k jump in staff salaries in one year
Sep 4, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Spend some time to evaluate all the variables, if you want to make claims. The staffing budget was 30% of the offering in 2010 and 26% in 2011. They actually spent less on staff budgets. Also, Sunday School teachers are volunteers, not paid. I've never heard of a church paying sunday school teachers.
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Devotee [334]
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Numbers don't lie..".
Sep 4, 2012, 10:32 PM
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Mega churches, mega riches to be divided by the few. No matter what percentages you throw out, real dollars are what matter. Look at the dollar increases in each category for the real picture. Nice presentation though, it makes people ignore what is actually being revealed.
No matter which way youlook at it paychecks jumped a load in 2011. Did Perry have the same clause for Clemson winning the ACC?
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Amateur [31]
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Re: Numbers don't lie..".
Sep 4, 2012, 10:38 PM
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Wow, did you look at the attendance numbers? Giving increased by 30%. They built new churches, therefore they had to spend money on a lot more staff members. If you have a problem with a church becoming large and becoming effective in leading people towards Jesus Christ, then that is another issue. But to say that the church is built just so Perry can make money is a ridiculous and unjustified claim.
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Devotee [334]
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Wrong again
Sep 4, 2012, 10:48 PM
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2010 - 5 Campuses listed
2011 -5 campuses listed
I do not see a new "foundation" established in 2011 justifying the huge increase in salaries. The research is easy and out there for anybody with an Internet connection.....Anderson County has a public access site (as do all the other counties). Do a quick property search and you will see where the increase goes. I am sure you know the names of the senior leadership there.
It is good to see that an extra 50k of the 6M increase was kicked in for missions in 2011 over 2010 though. There is nothing that represents a church more than outreach.
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Amateur [31]
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Re: Wrong again
Sep 4, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Newspring has 7 campuses.
I will admit, you are surely determined to deface the name of a church that is bring people to Christ. I know I believe in what newspring stands for and I trust their financial decisions regardless of what you say. The fact that Perry adamantly has his top objective as bringing people to Christ and the fact that he makes many people uncomfortable because he calls them out on their sins is enough evidence for me that the church is nowhere near scamming anyone.
Did you know that Perry has no control over what he makes? A BOT determines that. Did you know that the church is audited every year to ensure there is no foul play?
If you would honestly like to know more about the financials of newspring then feel free to contact them.
hello@newspring.cc
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Devotee [334]
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Re: Wrong again
Sep 4, 2012, 11:13 PM
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The information was taken directly from your link. Five locations are listed for 2010 and 2011 directly influencing the overview presented. Yes, it is a very broad overview issued to comply with federal tax regulations for non-profit religious institutions.
There is no intent to deface or defame. My hope is that you and every member or attendee is truly following the word of God. In that, you should treat Perry as a messenger and question everything he says through the Bible, prayer and your personal relationship with the savior. With a lot of post, people appear to blindly follow this guy due to his charm and style without the sustenance. Mega or large churches (which I also attend and serve at) are getting a lot of press for being feel good worship hang outs.
From the types of media out reaches in the past, I do not want to see our Football team being used as a ploy to increase attendance by anybody.
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Legend [19694]
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Most telling part of their expenses
Sep 4, 2012, 11:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher ] |
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1.5 million of 26 million spent to missions. Seems to me their focus is entirely upon them
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Athletic Dir [872]
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WE JUST BEAT AUBURN FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW.
Sep 4, 2012, 9:53 PM
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We did it in Atlanta. In front of a National Audience.
We're ranked 12th, and we're climbing.
And THIS is what's posted on our FOOTBALL FORUM.
Jesus Christ.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: WE JUST BEAT AUBURN FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW.
Sep 4, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Yes Jesus is much much more important than a football game
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Trainer [48]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
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BOY U REALLY HAVE PROBLEMS
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Devotee [334]
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Google Newspring and James Duncan......
Sep 4, 2012, 10:04 PM
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I have to agree, fantasy football is not the only fake game being played on Sundays.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Wait.....so you're saying that you know the truth...
Sep 4, 2012, 10:05 PM
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but New Spring doesn't?
Isn't that..sort of like....you know...pot calling the kettle a false prophet?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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No I say what scripture says
Sep 4, 2012, 10:16 PM
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I simply say what is written and by hearing alot of Perry's preaching a lot of what he says is wrong. If it doesn't match up with what is written then is it right?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Given that much of Christ's teaching is parabolic...
Sep 4, 2012, 10:18 PM
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I would say a significant portion of Christianity is interpretation, not black letter. And, at the end of the day, that argument is going to be decided by God -- not you.
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Junkie [505]
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Watered down?
Sep 4, 2012, 10:07 PM
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I have been to a zillion churches over the years. I have heard the gospel presented in many ways. I have seen the "watered down" version you speak of, the say a little prayer and all is good version...
However, the dozen or so times I have visited Newspring, I found Perry to be the opposite of that. He removed the frills and presented the gospel for what it is..God's grace extended to us, a hopeless people that can do nothing about our sin problem without God's help. Perry steps on toes and pulls no punches. While most churches these days are nothing more than dying exclusive country clubs with no interst in reaching people for Christ, Newspring has sold out to reaching the lost.
It may not be the church we grew up knowing, but isn't that the point?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Watered down?
Sep 4, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Acts is what our model of the church is
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Junkie [505]
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Exactly. You are making my point for me.
Sep 4, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Healthy church= study of God's word, prayer, fellowship of believers, breaking of bread, evangelism, accountability, and extra emphasis on not "losing first love."
Traditional churches= committees, tradition for tradition sake, exclusivity, fear mongering, etc.
Please explain to me how:
1) Newspring doesn't follow acts model
2) how your church does
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Fan [79]
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who cares....
Sep 4, 2012, 10:30 PM
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Is thos relevant in any way to college football or to the messageboard on Tigernet ? Negative. Got news for ya Bryanttiger..the only thing more annoying than someone getting hyper-preachy is someone else being sanctimonious right outta left field and dragging it out onto a sports message board. Don't care...move on.
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Hall of Famer [24995]
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Personally I like to follow the church Jesus
Sep 4, 2012, 10:55 PM
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established, not one established by an OCD German guy in the middle ages.
also is this footba;;?
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All-American [556]
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Bryanttiger....
Sep 4, 2012, 10:59 PM
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People like you are why I have a hard time accepting organized religion. I believe in Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior and try to reflect that in my daily life, however those who claim to be holier-than-though, or have a supposed direct hotline to Jesus are the one's that drive more people away from Christ than to him. Give it a rest. Go Tigers.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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you've got a pretty warped view there...
Sep 4, 2012, 11:06 PM
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based on your own tradition, not necessarily a biblical stance.
It's not that I disagree with everything you say, but it is presented in a very pharisaical way.
Unless Jesus came down and gave you express instructions, you are way off on many of your absolutes.
Obviously, He wouldn't use your approach or he would have difficulty reaching many with the gospel.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: you've got a pretty warped view there...
Sep 5, 2012, 12:07 AM
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Go read the book of acts and show me where I am wrong.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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will Acts cover everything you are wrong on?***
Sep 5, 2012, 2:00 AM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: you've got a pretty warped view there...
Sep 5, 2012, 12:09 AM
[ in reply to you've got a pretty warped view there... ] |
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So its ok to water down the gosple if it gets people in and its ok to not preach on repentance and to get them to pray the sinners prayer which isn't found in the Bible and only started in 1950?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Newspring (pretty obviously) fills a void that traditional
Sep 5, 2012, 12:13 AM
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churches in the area weren't. You can claim that it is a watered down version of the gospel, which is based on your own personal interpretation of the Bible, but are you saying it is a bad thing that Newspring has people going to church that otherwise wouldn't be?
Are you seriously saying this?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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If Jesus didn't conform to the crowds, then
Sep 5, 2012, 12:24 AM
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why is it ok for us to change what the bible says is what Church should be? Jesus didn't conform and most everyone walked away from him, when Jesus wouldn't give them what they wanted, the Bible says they left him. If the bible doesn't say we can change the mold of the church, who are we to say we can? Jesus didn't say do whatever to get them in the church, as he never did. He spoke the truth and rather they accepted it, was on them, but Jesus didn't change or do what the people wanted and he didn't mold the church to what we wanted
Message was edited by: Bryanttiger®
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Rock Defender [53]
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I'm going to go ahead and just assume that you're wrong
Sep 5, 2012, 8:08 AM
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when you say that Newspring changes what's in the Bible. What I think you mean is that they interpret it differently than you.
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110%er [7980]
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everyone of my prayers are not in the bible
Sep 5, 2012, 12:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: you've got a pretty warped view there... ] |
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What is this sinners prayer you keep throwing out there.
Is the Lord's prayer the only prayer allowed . . . .ever?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Sinners prayer that gets you to
Sep 5, 2012, 1:21 AM
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repeat a prayer and pronounce them saved, no repentance, just pray this prayer and congrats you're saved. Now lets not tell them that their life will be Christ like and they will hate their sin. If you have doubts just remember you prayed the prayer. Go read 1 John as that is what a Christian is
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Sinners prayer that gets you to
Sep 5, 2012, 1:21 AM
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1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3For the time is coming when people will not endure sounda teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
6For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing
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110%er [7980]
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Im not a perry nobel fan
Sep 5, 2012, 12:34 AM
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but I'm not about to say that Perry isn't teaching God's word. People like you give christians and church goers a bad name.
Another pastor has always said I want to bring in the lost to church, don't go inviting church people because they bring church problems.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Im not a perry nobel fan
Sep 5, 2012, 1:26 AM
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No you got it wrong, it's people like you who don't want to search the scriptures for yourself and don't realize Christ gave us the model for what the church to be, yet it's ok for us to make it the way we want and conform it to the world. Show me where Jesus says to conform church to the world? Show me where he said we can make it different than what acts says it to be? Go listen to Noble and see he never mentions REPENTANCE. Jesus simply said REPENT and believe the gospel. The Bible says the gospel is offensive, yet folks flock to him, he makes it look so easy, Noble once said salvation is easy, yeah it is so easy it took God to die and make it possible. Listen to him and search the scriptures and see if he is right? If you do I guarantee you'll see he is twisting scripture to fit himself
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Scout Team [155]
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Re: Im not a perry nobel fan
Sep 5, 2012, 3:21 PM
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BryantTiger i have read thru most of your post and maybe I am missing it but please give me something specific that Perry Noble has said from one of the many sermons you have listened to and stop talking in generalities. Also exactly what is the model for the Church that the bible gives that you keep mentioning? If you go by the book of Acts then we all need to sell our church buildings and start meeting in houses. And wasn't it paul who said i have become all things to all men so that some might be saved (paraphrase). What about at the acropolis? Did he not kinda meet them where they were at and then point then toward Jesus? You keep spouting off that Jesus did not conform to the crowds NO he did something even better HE became one of us. God conformed to US, the Creator to the creation so that we would listen to HIM. Isn't that what you are accusing Noble of doing? Methods change but the message does not, you are just not going to reach that many people today sitting in a building with a steeple on it (please don't tell me that was Jesus model) singing 100 year old hymns 3 beats too slow (as beautiful as they may be). The vast majority of times in the gospels Jesus DID have large crowds following Him. Though you are right at times he did challenge them and many would turn away. Anyway you are talking about alot of things you simply do not know about. Happen to know that Newspring does most of their discipling thru small groups that meet in homes weekly. WOW wonder where they got a RADICAL IDEA LIKE THAT? For a small group of around 12 believers to meet and study and pray and encourage one another and do life together. Wow how worldy is that?
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Scout Team [155]
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Re: Im not a perry nobel fan
Sep 5, 2012, 3:39 PM
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Straight from the Newspring web page
OUR BELIEFS
GOD God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22, Psalm 90:2, Matthew 28:19, I Peter 1:2, II Corinthians 13:14)
MAN Man is made in the image of God. He is the supreme object of God's creation. Although God designed man to have fellowship with him, man became alienated from God through disobedience. As a result, all human beings are born with a sinful nature and choose to sin against God. Man is incapable of regaining a right relationship with God through his own efforts. (Genesis 1:27, Psalm 8:3-6, Isaiah 53:6a, Romans 3:23, Colossians 1:21, Isaiah 59:1-2)
ETERNITY Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God, through forgiveness and salvation. When you die, you will either spend eternity in Heaven or Hell. Eternal separation from God happens in Hell. Eternal union with God occurs in Heaven. (John 3:16, I John 2:25; 5:11-13, Romans 6:23, Revelation 20:15)
JESUS CHRIST Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven's glory and will return again to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Matthew 1:22-23, Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1-5; 14:10-30, Hebrews 4:14-15, I Corinthians 15:3-4, Romans 1:3-4, Acts 1:9-11, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:13)
SALVATION Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin's penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith. (Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 14:6; 1:12, Titus 3:5, Galatians 3:26, Romans 5:1)
ETERNAL SECURITY Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in that salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security. (John 10:29, II Timothy 1:12, Hebrews 7:25; 10:10-14, I Peter 1:3-5)
THE HOLY SPIRIT The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every believer from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily. (II Corinthians 3:17, John 16:7-13; 14:16-17, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12; 3:16, Ephesians 1:13, Galatians 5:25, Ephesians 5:18)
THE BIBLE The Bible is God's Word to all men. It was written by human authors under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. (II Timothy 3:16-17, II Peter 1:20-21, II Timothy 1:13, Psalm 119:105,160, Psalm 12:6, Proverbs 30:5)
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: Tithe more, without tithing there is no salvation.***
Sep 5, 2012, 6:45 PM
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Scout Team [155]
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Re: Tithe more, without tithing there is no salvation.***
Sep 5, 2012, 9:11 PM
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I have never heard ANY Pastor this side of Creflo Dollar preach that mess!
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Recruit [83]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 5, 2012, 9:30 PM
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The thing I don't understand is why a controversial, divisive figure was chosen to be team chaplain. Also, does he have time to be both and pastor and team chaplain. I understand he is at the university almost every day...
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Fan [62]
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Re: Perry Noble is a false teacher
Sep 6, 2012, 10:06 PM
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Bryanttiger, I haven't read the entire thread that you have started because I have already read all I need to see. The arrogance and ignorance that oozes from your posts amaze me. You are exactly the reason why the average Joe who is out of church refuses to step foot in one.
I feel confident you have watched a few YouTube clips of Perry and not entire messages. You are the classic anti-Newspring Christian that refuses to acknowledge all the GREAT things that are happening there instead of being absolutely pumped about it. I just don't quite get it. We are on the same team here man.
How about putting your efforts in serving the Lord instead of demonizing a church where the Gospel is preached and lives are changed.
Clemson 52
Ball State 24
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-In [46565]
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That's exactly like taking anything out of context
Sep 8, 2012, 12:52 AM
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If I said Jesus was a cry baby because he wept.
If I took the passage in Matthew that says if i had faith the size of a mustard seed you can move a mountain.
I can move Grandfather Mtn. to SC tomorrow.
I don't know of any minister that you video and take the message out of context that would be good enough for you.
Good luck with that! Love ya Bro but I believe you have blinders on.
God is moving and folks are being saved and you are looking for cutouts out of context to prove your point at all costs and it might just be that next person that was being called to Jesus has a seed of doubt from a Christian who was more interested in putting their faith in finding fault than leading them to Jesus.
Look up any minister that has preached on TV or at a large Church and search false prophet(look up John Mc.) and see what pops up. We are in a battle here and the devil loves to see Christian folks taken down or hurt by other christian folks. If you are a christian and you are working in the kingdom you will have troubles and we are to count this as a blessing. Christ was persecuted and if we are living like Him we will be too. The Angels in heaven rejoice when someone's name is written in the book of life. Holy Holy Holy is the Lord Almighty!
There are ton's of testimonies from New Spring were God has worked a miracle in the lives of men, women, boys and girls. I'm sure at you church or circle of influence you can look and see how God has transformed lives. But also the enemy is at work and their are lives at all churches that go through divorce and go back to living in a way no christian should. It's never peaceful for a person who truly accepted Jesus in their life to go back to a determined sinful life. My prayer is your church or any church that believes Jesus is the WAY will have many find Jesus and repent and get saved and baptized.
I love you brother and I accept the fact that we may have different opinions about what Jesus can look like.
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