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Replies: 23
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Game Changer [1905]
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Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:24 AM
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TLDR - Coaches, now more then ever, are being forced to win at all costs. This often hurts the kids, the team, and the program. I’m glad Clemson has consistency and don’t want to see us fall into the same trap as the UF’s of the world.
My opinion -
What’s going on at UF is a prime example and warning of what’s wrong with college football. I also see it as a lesson in the criticality of player development, and, outside of a few schools with unlimited funds, the need for fans to understand the process and support these kids if they want consistent success.
What do I mean -
- DJ Lagway clearly is a talented kid… I’m not an expert but I think it’s fair to say that he had first round potential
- Rewind to last year, Billy Napier was in a bad spot job security wise, and in an effort to survive and advance put DJ in as true freshman before he was really ready
- Fast Forward, now he’s the starter but missed some key development milestones, and when things go bad the ‘fans’ crucify him for it… this crushes his confidence, further hurts his short term development, and hurts him long term (i.e., he slips in the, doesn’t make an NFL roster, etc…)
- It also hurts the team, their HC was fired… and the program since they’ll need to rebuild their entire culture
Why do I care -
Because as Clemson grad and fan, I’m grateful for the stubbornness and stability that Dabo has brought to the program. This year has been rough and I know changes are on the horizon… but I for one trust Dabo and will continue supporting the kids that he brings into his program.
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:59 AM
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DJ Lagway might have potential, but Napier was good to cut ties with. They made the right call.
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Game Changer [1905]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:23 AM
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Maybe, I mean I agree they are separate from one another
I wonder what would’ve happened if Napier had a longer runway and more time to keep Freshman and Sophomores in the crock pot
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:25 AM
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I think they have extremely high standards, for whatever reason, but Napier isn't recruiting well enough to compete with the best.
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Game Changer [1905]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 11:35 AM
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I mean we have high standards too. That’s obviously a good thing and I wouldn’t aim for anything less if I was in Dabo’s position
I think it becomes a problem is when fans can’t take a step back and appreciate how difficult and rare National Championships really are… it’s what we do at work too… set a big hairy almost unattainable goal, and if you fall a week short of your deadline or whatever you’re still miles ahead of setting some weak easily reachable target
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 11:37 AM
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True
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National Champion [7956]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 6:38 AM
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Yes, Dabo is not perfect and has made some mistakes that helped us get here but rather have him than anyone else. He wants to win mote than we do and he will right the ship and be a better coach in the future for falling into this hole we are in.
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Freshman [1]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:01 AM
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Great perspective! You’re correct , a lot of FS kids are going to be thrust into playing without being prepared. All in the name of “playoffs and not being fired “. It’s a true shame what CF has become.
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Game Changer [1764]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:01 AM
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Your point is well taken and needs to be heard, particularly today in this crazy culture of college football. The most assured route to mediocracy is firing coaches and staff prematurely. The SEC is dotted with examples. Many question whether Tom Allen is the right DC for Clemson. I think it is too early to know. Yes, many said we had the personnel to be a national contender and our defense should be top 10, but a bit of time to solidify is needed before making radical decisions. Gene Stallings was hired at 'Bama and lost his first three games. Everyone there was crying for blood, but he turned the program around and won a national championship; I think it was the next year. The OL and defense have not been as good as we hoped, but I think we have the right coaches if we give them time to institute their systems, like Dabo did for Batson. Let us not be too hasty. We see in the mirror darkly.
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Orange Phenom [14282]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:18 AM
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Your point is well taken and needs to be heard, particularly today in this crazy culture of college football. The most assured route to mediocracy is firing coaches and staff prematurely. The SEC is dotted with examples. Many question whether Tom Allen is the right DC for Clemson. I think it is too early to know. Yes, many said we had the personnel to be a national contender and our defense should be top 10, but a bit of time to solidify is needed before making radical decisions. Gene Stallings was hired at 'Bama and lost his first three games. Everyone there was crying for blood, but he turned the program around and won a national championship; I think it was the next year. The OL and defense have not been as good as we hoped, but I think we have the right coaches if we give them time to institute their systems, like Dabo did for Batson. Let us not be too hasty. We see in the mirror darkly.
The most assured route to mediocracy is failing to use the portal to strengthen your roster each year. Before some say it, I am not talking building a roster out of the portal but using it to fill gaps. Think about an NFL team who decided to only use the draft and not free agency. It works the same in college as we lose players to the portal, we lose recruits to bigger paychecks but don't fill those gaps. Not only is our roster not as talented as we need, but we dont have the depth to push the starters so we become stagnant.
I also agree that cycling through coaches is a losing proposition as it has to be an all of the above solution.
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Game Changer [1905]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
Nov 11, 2025, 4:04 PM
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Agree that we can use the portal more and find better balance, I hope to see that this off season… Heldt, Smith, and Alexander have all fit our culture and made Clemson better
Where I’d push back… I actually think the MOST assured route to mediocrity is bad culture. Culture like FSU in 2023, where, allegedly, players were in it for themselves and had no desire to represent their school once getting shafted from the playoff. IMO that 63 - 3 beatdown to UGA was because, upstream Norvell had no foundation or team identity in place.
My rationale is that bad, or less talented players may lead to a bad year (i.e. our year), whereas bad culture will lead to bad decades (i.e., Tennessee since Fulmer left, FSU since the Bowden effect wore off, VT since Beamer left, South Carolina since 1969, etc…)
Sounds like we mostly agree that we need better balance
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Ring of Honor [22103]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:11 AM
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I’m sorry but as a Qb, you better have some thick skin and a gold fish memory. Of course there’s pressure to win. UF gave Napier a pretty long leash by today’s standards. Football is a what are doing for me now game. Sitting around saying remember when I did this isn’t going to keep a job. Comparing Clemson and UF is a bad comparison. Perhaps Penn State and Clemson would be more appropriate because the former had at least made the playoffs.
Has Dabo earned a lifelong blank check? I don’t think quite that, but close.
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TigerNet Elite [70775]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 8:03 AM
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^^^ much better perspective and comparison ^^^
Florida has been a dumpster fire since 2010 when they hired muschamp. Fired Mullens too quick imo.
Off topic, but kiffin would be crazy to go there. They expect a coach to come in and have the number one recruiting class every year.
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Orange Beast [6423]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 12:24 PM
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No doubt abt dumspster fire. Mullen did not recruit (Kirby actaully told him he needed to put more effort into it) and was a smug SOB. If you dont have a stellar record and UGA is killing you on the trail, AND you are an #######....you better have elite results or you are going to get canned.
I actually know his wife Meg...total opposites...very classy sweet lady.
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Valley Legend [12775]
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Napier was afforded about the same time/leeway as Muschamp 10+yrs ago
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:48 AM
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I get what you're saying about the "development" side, but It's difficult for me to have "sympathy" for these 18-22 yr old kids that have DEMANDED to be treated like PROFESSIONALS financially yet can't handle the REAL pressures on the field.
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Game Changer [1905]
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Re: Napier was afforded about the same time/leeway as Muschamp 10+yrs ago
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Nov 11, 2025, 8:47 AM
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Agree, I struggle and get the sentiment, I’ve definitely yelled “earn your paycheck” multiple times this season… they make more in a year then most will make in their life. Not personally comfortable with that balance
That said, I don’t see guys like Cade and Sammy publicly demanding more money and it’s more that they’re operating on the road that others paved. Despite that, and any amount they get paid, they’re still 18 to 22 year old kids who are learning about life and dealing with those pressures… I think if we, as a fan base, can take that step back and support (or sympathize if that’s what you want to call it) it will bode well for our kids and better for our program long term
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Game Day Hero [4192]
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You are right - unfortunately the college game was corrupted by Ed OBannon
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:52 AM
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…and I would say, somewhat unintentionally, by Ed O’Bannon.
https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2024/ed-obannon-ncaa-antitrust-settlement-1234782098/
O’Bannon had a legitimate beef with the NCAA and EA Sports. They should have never allowed the use of O’Bannon’s image and likeness to profit off of the video games that they created. FULL STOP!!
What happened in the verdict UNLEASHED a wholesale pay-to-play process that thoroughly corrupted the student-athlete scholarship model, which then further metastasized into a full time salaried university employee contract model.
Add in the free-for-all transfer portal, and voila, you now have a legal money laundering scheme to buy a championship football roster and eradicate the notion of a student-athlete. PERFECT MODEL for those schools only interested in winning at all cost and have unlimited funds to launder through the portal and NIL contracts.
A coach like Dabo Swinney has the objective of developing young men into successful citizens, husbands, fathers, by augmenting their college degrees with the discipline, drive, ambition, dedication, integrity from playing football at the highest collegiate level.
That model is fundamentally INCOMPATIBLE with the present FOR-PROFIT-PAY-2-PLAY model. It is OIL mixing with WATER. WON’T HAPPEN.
The only viable model in the present environment for coaches like CDS is for the football program to MOVE DOWN to DIVISION II, where the student-athlete model is still exists. Yes, the financial rules are still intact for Division II, but the athletes that play for those Division II scholarships do not and cannot demand multi-million dollar salaries.
The present system CANNOT be fixed. It has been irreparably BROKEN. The adage that “you cannot put the toothpaste back into the tube” is the driving truth here.
So, CDS either has to re-organize around this new financial model, AND find the money to play with the big boys (where Clemson finds this money is anyone’s guess) OR coach Division II football OR move on the NFL. Who knows…
The one thing that I am sure of is that Clemson’s future in the present college model is NOT competing for national championships in football, but being relinquished to a SCRIMMAGE TEAM for the likes of Ohio State, Texas, Georgia, Texas A&M, Michigan, USC, SMU, Miami, and similar monied universities.
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Game Changer [1868]
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Of course Elmo didnt wait, gave his freshman needed experience last year with
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Nov 11, 2025, 9:44 AM
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UPS and downs and now Reed is leading the #3 team in the country. So there is that.
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Game Changer [1868]
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Whoops, ha, ha, ELKO not Elmo, but they do have a striking resemblance.***
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Nov 11, 2025, 9:45 AM
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Game Changer [1905]
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Re: Whoops, ha, ha, ELKO not Elmo, but they do have a striking resemblance.***
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Nov 11, 2025, 10:36 AM
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Ha, I thought it was some fun nickname I’d never heard of lol
And yeah, definitely exceptions to every rule and Elko has done well… A&M is also one of the few schools I’d put in the “Unlimited Funds” bucket, so there’s that too
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Orange Beast [6423]
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No.....just no...
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Nov 11, 2025, 12:19 PM
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No offense to the OP, but this is a PRIME, A1 example of not knowing details and saying inaccuracies b/c you don't follow said school.
DJL was inserted b/c the starter (Graham Mertz) had a season-ending injury (ACL) in 2024. DJL wasn't rushed....DJL has got a ton of talent and performed well. I was at his spring game his freshman spring...he looked like a seasoned junior. Many freshmen in CFB play early. Deshaun and Trevor say hello. In fact, DJL played so well, UF's AD halted his plan to fire Napier last year b/c they went on a late season run to finish 8-5. Big mistake. Napier is a nice man...he is not a HBC at a major school. He got fired for the same reason CDS fired him: he thought he was a playcaller and he simply is NOT. Billy went 6-7(3-5 SEC); 5-7 (3-5 SEC); 8-5 overall (4-4 SEC) and his current team is now 3-5 overall (2-3 SEC). Napier was also 5-17 against ranked teams. I would hope Clemson, or any school that values football, would fire a coach after those results.
There are other inaccuracies (again, no disrespect to OP) in your "what do I mean portion"...but DJL did not take a snap or see ANY practice time this Spring (2025) for a shoulder issue and was limited in the fall for an Achilles injury and lingering shoulder issue. UF, actually DID WHAT WAS RIGHT by him and gave him 6-8 months OFF. BN may not be a great HC, but he does right by his players. DJL issues are he's been hurt; he hasn't put enough work into his craft; and he needs to lose ± 20 pounds. Kid has a high ceiling, but hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work. The support and $$$ UF gives him is elite. This isn't a UF issue...not even close.
Back to BN...if anything, UF should be applauded for sticking with someone who was never going to succeed for almost FOUR YEARS. Napier was urged by the AD, but not ordered, to hire an OC playcaller for 2025. AD didn't believe it was his role to order the coach. When Napier didn't follow the strong suggestion b/c his offenses sucked and then failed this season.....well that kinda stuff gets you canned. Stubbornness 101...
A much better example for you would be LSU. See current shitstorm they are in now. UF has made some very bad hires no doubt...but they do the right thing as opposed to LSU who cans NC HCs quickly and now is refusing to own up to the $54M they owe said Brian Kelly
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Game Changer [1905]
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Re: No.....just no...
Nov 11, 2025, 4:53 PM
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I mean sure, PSU and LSU especially are good examples too, but I think you’re missing my point that unrealistic expectations actually set schools back. I mean for goodness sake, Napier was on the hot seat two years into the job… that’s nuts… how is someone supposed to build long lasting culture in that environment???
Also, I know you say no offense, but that’s not how it reads… if anything I really enjoy following UF for the simple fact that when they play well it’s one more thing keeping South Carolina down.
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Orange Beast [6423]
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Re: No.....just no...
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:10 PM
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Don't think I missed the point. Napier did in fact build a good culture--his kids never quit on him. But the end game is Ws and Ls. His game results, as shown above, are very unacceptable at a school like UF that has EVERYTHING you need for success...Top 5 Public, tons of $$$, location in talent rich state; great facilities, etc... UF regularly finishes in Top 5 for all sports. They have however, def. made some awful FB hires since Urban for sure. Mind-blowing.
I really did mean no offense....and said it so you wouldn't take it the wrong way. Unlike some on this board, I try hard not to offend, even when I disagree. I'm a 20-year UF season tix holder as well as an IPTAY member. I just know abt UF.
PSU had Franklin for what---11 years....they were more than patient; same with UF. Four years is more than enough to see a winning trend. It was going in the opposite direction. And again, when you boss strongly suggests you make a change at OC and let someone else call the plays to improve the very mediocre offense and you refuse, and then do what you did this year, you deserve to be canned. Same way Dabo was right to fire him at Clemson. Billy is a good man and a good coach...just not a HC at a major school. I still contend a much better example is this ######## going on in Baton Rouge. Those douchebags are now claiming they really didn't fire BK. That would never happen at UF. Kelly was what ---34-14..thats a much better example than Napier who was 22-23. Can't defend that when you make $7.6 annually
1000% agree with you...when they play well and beat usucks ###...I LOVE IT. Unfort, they have been hot garbage for far too long due to poor hires..
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Orange Blooded [2179]
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Re: Billy Napier and DJ Lagway
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Nov 11, 2025, 9:26 PM
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Neither is very good, not terrible but below average. I watched Lagway and UKs qb Boley last week, who are the exact same age/class, and it wasn't even close how much better Boley is.
But I agree there is a major, growing problem with all of this. As Dabo stated... The expectation is greater than the appreciation.
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Replies: 23
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