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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Name the bigger thief: The IRS, or a house contractor
Nov 24, 2021, 11:45 AM
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AFTER you are under contract.
"Yeah, even though its on the plans to build, that's an option"
Apparently, roofs, flooring, walls, backsplashes, doors and just about everything else is an "option".
I sweatergod if I could get my money back out of this guy I'd bolt. This is EXACTLY why I didn't want a new house. I've even thought about bailing on it w/o getting my money back. That would be $5K, but it might be worth the hassle. If I did that I'd have about $8500 in houses I haven't bought this year.
/rant
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Rock Defender [54]
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Not to be an asshat...but how is this not a you problem?***
Nov 24, 2021, 11:48 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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How do you mean?
Nov 24, 2021, 11:53 AM
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Lets take, for instance, a pantry cabinet that makes a wall at the edge of the steps. It's both in the pictures and in the plans. Additionally, while I was walking through the house while it was in framing, I asked the sales dude "what goes here?" He answered "a cabinet that used for the kitchen pantry".
I found out this morning that s a $5K "addition".
If we're down to this, what else should I think would be an option? Windows? plumbing? electrical wires?
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Oculus Spirit [97758]
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We've built a house, and bought one spec.
Nov 24, 2021, 11:58 AM
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We went through and itemized every single thing. Builder drew up a contract. We walked through the model with the builder, who said he would build us one "just like the model", and found a bunch of that crap. We demanded that before we would sign the contract. As we were his first house in the neighborhood, he tossed it all in, AND added 3 feet to the back of the house as well, no charge. Another 200 square feet or so.
Then over the following years as our floorplan was propagated in the neighborhood, people said our house "looks so much bigger inside", lol.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I guess, were they that duplicitous about what is and isn't
Nov 24, 2021, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to How do you mean? ] |
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included in the build you purchased? Like, there wasn't any clear outline of what was included, and what was optional?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Note: I am completely open to the possibility they were.***
Nov 24, 2021, 12:03 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I thought there was.
Nov 24, 2021, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to I guess, were they that duplicitous about what is and isn't ] |
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I'm beginning to find out that's not true. I had no idea that this thing would be an option; It wasn't even on my radar as something that's not included. To me it was another cabinet..,which makes me question every door, window, screw and nail. Are the cover plates that cover the electrical outlets an option? Are faucets an option? Are toilets an option? I didn't specifically write those as being included.
With this cabinet I'm fighting today, it's something they don't want to do because they've priced it at about 5x what it's worth to do it.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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He may be getting rekt on material/labor and is trying
Nov 24, 2021, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to How do you mean? ] |
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to make it up where he can. Might not be a bad idea to sit down with him and go through exactly what is expected so everyone's on the same page and he can't pull some nonsense.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Yes; agreed. I think we need to have a level setting
Nov 24, 2021, 12:11 PM
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meeting. What else should I expect to be "optional"?
I guess I'll have to get some large pictures of the house and just point out everything inside.
"So how about that electrical panel--optional? That trim around the door...optional?"
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All-In [40656]
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I uh, don't see that that working out well on your behalf.***
Nov 24, 2021, 12:17 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I'm not sure any of this will be***
Nov 24, 2021, 12:28 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [40656]
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I gotta be honest here
Nov 24, 2021, 11:49 AM
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You should have bought memaws house.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Well, I'd just have to get someone else's permission
Nov 24, 2021, 11:56 AM
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for the furniture placement, so it's kinda the same.
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Heisman Winner [137988]
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Sure, but think about how much unbought house equity
Nov 24, 2021, 11:55 AM
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you're sitting on right now. LUCKY.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I would stay right here and rent the rest of my life if I
Nov 24, 2021, 12:01 PM
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could afford it.
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Oculus Spirit [85339]
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IRS for me. When we built our house
Nov 24, 2021, 12:02 PM
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We had settled on the price. We didn't have any change orders. My issue at the end was, hey where's my paved driveway, where's my metal crawl space door, where's my French drain? So we split the last check from the bank.
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All-In [32656]
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IRS times a million or more. Next question ?***
Nov 24, 2021, 12:08 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I'll be complaining about them in April
Nov 24, 2021, 12:12 PM
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So yeah, them too.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Name the bigger thief: The IRS, or a house contractor
Nov 24, 2021, 12:50 PM
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You didn't have a spec sheet with exactly what is in the build before you signed the contract? No selections meeting or anything like that?
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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We had 5 or 6 selections..stuff like color for the
Nov 24, 2021, 1:05 PM
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crappy vinyl floor, counter tops, paint colors and door style. I elected to pay more for a few items like solid core doors everywhere, a fence extension and a wider driveway.
Like I said, today's issue is a new one; I never even knew the pantry cabinet was an option. It's shown in their blueprints that I looked at and that are on their website. And I asked about it before I signed the contract, and was told that a cabinet goes in that spot. I wasn't told that the cabinet was an option however. I'm just wondering what else will turn out to be an option.
If I could get out of the whole thing today, I would. I have a feeling I'm going to take a screwing on this.
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Heisman Winner [136039]
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Sounds like the blueprint would be binding
Nov 24, 2021, 1:14 PM
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Implied contract or some such.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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They already got out of some exterior steps
Nov 24, 2021, 1:23 PM
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with that one. I didn't sign/buy the blueprints, they just showed them to me.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: We had 5 or 6 selections..stuff like color for the
Nov 24, 2021, 2:54 PM
[ in reply to We had 5 or 6 selections..stuff like color for the ] |
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Yeah seems like if it’s in the plans it probably should be in the base price of the house. We had to pick every dang faucet, fixture, and outlet location, trying to do that, appliances, shelving, flooring, etc within set-out allowances was impossible, and we added other stuff like a back porch fireplace and more trim carpentry things, but this was all set out way in advance from the spec sheet of the base house vs things we wanted that added to the price.
Does y’alls builder want cash up front for change orders, or are they just added to the sale price?
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I think they want us to pay for it now
Nov 24, 2021, 3:12 PM
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So far I haven't agreed to buy anything else.
They either have been through this, think I am going to bolt, or (my thought) want me to bolt (so they can keep my earnest money and sell the house for a higher price to someone else)--because they keep saying any additional money I give then is non-refundable.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: I think they want us to pay for it now
Nov 24, 2021, 3:16 PM
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They may be trying to shake you, but I don’t know why they would, this time of year doubt they’d be able to sell it for much more than whatever y’alls contract price was between now and being finished. It sucks adding costs, but I’ve taken the tact of just letting my wife pick whatever she wants, make the house like she wants it, that way maybe we can stay in this one indefinitely provided we stay in the area long term.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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The house won't be done until February
Nov 24, 2021, 3:19 PM
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So they say. I'm banking on it not being done for several weeks after that, and maybe get me and my money out of it.
Neither of us are overly thrilled about the place; its just a house, somewhere we aren't really super thrilled about moving. The only real ties I have in it is the $5K earnest money they have of mine.
Maybe staying here would be worth double the rent now.
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All-TigerNet [11213]
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Did you review and sign the blueprints before starting?
Nov 24, 2021, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to We had 5 or 6 selections..stuff like color for the ] |
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Last house that we built, that was part of the process. The builder's agent sat with my wife and I. We reviewed the survey and house placement on the lot, the blueprint and the options that we selected at the initial contract signing.
Every single piece of paper was signed and dated by both the agent and myself. To me, if it's on the blueprint that the builder delivered and it's not clearly marked "OPTIONAL" then you should get it. If there was a joint review before starting the build, you're golden.
The worst part of our build was chasing all the stupid #### on the punch list (never did get that missing screen from the back bedroom window #StillMad). The check cleared and they were on to the next house so their give-a-shit was low.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Nope. They aren't my prints.
Nov 24, 2021, 7:15 PM
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House is built as a spec and I caught it at the phase of construction that they are just putting in sheetrock and finishing up installing the bathrooms and stuff.
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All-In [29879]
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Re: Name the bigger thief: The IRS, or a house contractor
Nov 24, 2021, 1:57 PM
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lol yeah. If it's on the plans, it ain't optional, unless specifically noted as such. Dude is rooking you. There's a triangle relationship between you, your architect or designer, and the contractor.
Architect provides you with drawings. Contactor is to build EXACTLY what the drawings say. Architect is to provide periodic "construction observation" which means watching the contractor on big stuff like pouring concrete, structural steel, etc, and a final walkthrough or two.
Usually contractors try and get you by upcharging the he77 out of everything, "oh, the architect forgot this or forgot that", or offering you upgrades like "you want marble instead of concrete.
But if its on the plans, when the architect or ultimately, an inspector comes out and looks at it, it better damm well be there, and at no extra cost.
When the contractor received those plans, if it was a bid, he looked at them and said "yep, I can build this for x dollars. end of story. If it was not custom and a generic design, even better, because examples have already been built and he should be able to nail that number down to the penny. No excuse for him to have overcharges or to say he didn't expect it to cost this much. HE gave a price based on those plans to get the job in the first place. he's bulls.... you.
This is all assuming a standard AIA agreements and contracts. But bottom line is, nothing on a drawing is optional unless it has a damm big note saying so.
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Legend [15116]
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^^^ THIS 100% ^^^^***
Nov 24, 2021, 2:09 PM
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All-In [29879]
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Re: Name the bigger thief: The IRS, or a house contractor
Nov 24, 2021, 2:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Name the bigger thief: The IRS, or a house contractor ] |
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I'll go even further. There are a TON of code requirements that are not shown on the drawings that the contractor must adhere to as well. He's not going to fear you as the owner, or even the architect or designer, if they are around, but he will damm sure fear an inspector who may make him rip stuff out and do it all over again.
And I mean a LOT of code requirements...insulation for wiring, number of wire twists on suspended fixtures, even down to the type, number of nails, and pattern of nails for plywood shear walls, rebar in concrete, a TON on requirements.
If he's so brazen about rooking you at this level you can bet he's cutting corners all over the place, that only an experienced inspector will see it. Get yourself a good, neutral one. And I'd even throw up a red flag for the inspector and tell him this builder seems like he is bilking you.
It's not above contractors to buddy up to inspectors and walk them "over here", rather than "over there" to distract them from seeing certain things. Find an experienced inspector with integrity. Kryptonite for contractors is having to do work twice because they cut corners the first time and are made to do it again right the second time.
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All-In [29879]
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Re: Name the bigger thief: The IRS, or a house contractor
Nov 24, 2021, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Name the bigger thief: The IRS, or a house contractor ] |
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The usual way these guys rook you is by selling tickbalangs. You know, those little charms that ward off evil tickbalang attacks. "Well, if you put TWO joists here instead of just one, like the plans say, you'll be twice as safe." Or "my brother sells a germicide-covid proof drywall he just invented that's much better than what the architect spec'd. Sure it costs more, but do you want to risk getting covid from your drywall? All over your house?"
Stuff that is safe but an unnecessary upcharge. Like tickbalang insurance for gullible folks. But it sounds like this guy in into cutting corners to save money. And while that is bad enough on cosmetics and finishes, it can be dangerous depending how far he goes. Watch him closely.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Heisman Winner [136039]
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Print the plans from the website
Nov 24, 2021, 3:33 PM
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show them to builder and ask - while recording - are these the plans for the house you sold and are building me? If he says yes - boom you got him - oral contract. If he says no ask him to show you the plans for the house you bought.
Does the plan have a name like The Downeaster or Sand Castle that appears on the contract and on the online plans? If so you've got him that way too.
But you could just be ###### which is why I will most likely stay in my ratty little paid for house until I die instead of moving somewhere nice.
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All-In [29879]
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Re: I wasn't sold the plans.
Nov 24, 2021, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to I wasn't sold the plans. ] |
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Even so the rules are the same. Plans (and specs, and contracts) are legal documents and the contractor must comply with them to a tee. He doesn't get to chose what's in or out. His obligation is to build them as-is.
What will happen is the inspector will come out, walk the site with plans in hand, and challenge any discrepancies he can see. Stuff hidden behind walls is problematic because he won't make the builder tear stuff out on hunch. he has to know there is a problem.
In the end, the inspector will sign off on every system in the house on a big yellow card (might be different from state to state) that basically says "electrical -OK, plumbing -OK, structural -Ok, etc, etc. In my state they have to post it in the house. I built 15 years ago and it's still stapled to the garage wall, dated, with inspectors signatures on the date he ok'd every system.
The point is, his name is gonna be all over that approval, and if there's a problem that he was responsible for catching, he's on the hook almost as much as the contractor.
There's a lot of checks in the system. It's not really a fly by night situation. You just have to know what the checks are and hold folks to them. Anyone who wants repeat business is gonna get that - the designer, the contractor, the inspector - everyone signs off on their work all along the way.
Plus you're going to have warrantees. In my case it was 10 years. Got a problem, call em up, chew on their butt, they come out and fix it. Naturally, everything is designed to break in 11 years.
But back to the specific issue of leaving stuff out. Nope. Call them on it. Unless they have some crazy contractual arrangement, and odds are 99-1 they don't, this guy is playing you.
Mrs. Fordt and I ADDED a lot of extras, but nothing was a takeaway the contractor had a say in. Doesn't work that way. We have an itemized list of every single change WE made in the plans...extra cabinets here, better grade tile, extra outlet in this wall, etc, etc. and the added cost to do so.
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All-In [40941]
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IRS by far. There are a lot of good contractors out there.
Nov 24, 2021, 3:45 PM
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Shady ones too for sure, but a lot of good ones.
The contractor that built my house did not take one extra penny from me and fixed everything that needed to be fixed, which was very little.
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Replies: 36
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