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Orange Phenom [14754]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Are we following the science or the politics of school
Jul 15, 2020, 6:00 PM
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openings? Just out of curiosity I went to the CDC site to see the numbers of COVID-19 death for the different age groups. Here are the CDC total US COVID-19 mortality numbers through 4 July 2020 for ages 1 to 54:
Under 1: 9
1 to 4: 7
5 to 14: 14
15 to 24: 149
25 to 34: 795
35 to 44: 2026
45 to 54: 5650
So it looks like the total number of US COVID-19 deaths for school age people (kindergarten to college - ages 1 to 24) is 170 deaths. I dare say that is so infinitesimally low as to almost being insignificant. The fact is, someone in those age groups are at much greater risk of death from traveling in a car than COVID-19.
The teacher age range largely consists of folks between the ages of 25 to 44 and have a total of 2821 COVID-19 deaths nationwide. Again this is an infinitesimally low number and shows the risk to be well within what a rational person would consider acceptable.
It is quite obvious the COVID-19 risk and mortality is mostly occurring in the older crowd and not the typical group you find in schools and classrooms.
Later today, I caught a somewhat adversarial interview between Sandra Smith and Dr. Scott Atlas where he made the case that continued closure of schools is NOT following the science:
 Dr. Scott Atlas: Too much hysteria over school reopenings Former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center, Dr. Scott Atlas, weighs in on keeping schools safe amid the coronavirus pandemic on ‘America’s Newsroom.’
If the data shows the risk of death to children and teachers is practically non-existent, and if Dr. Atlas is correct and that the data shows no significant threat of transmission of COVID-19 from children to adults - then why are we even arguing over fully opening the schools?
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Clemson Icon [27753]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 32032
Joined: 2003
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Re: Are we following the science or the politics of school
Jul 15, 2020, 6:13 PM
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Explain these figures to the mother of one of the children who HAS died from the virus!
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Orange Phenom [14754]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I'm quite sure every parent that has lost a child to
Jul 15, 2020, 7:00 PM
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COVID-19 is devastated. I'm also quite sure that every parent that has lost a child to car wrecks (leading cause of death for children ages 5 - 19) miss their children just as much but we aren't about to stop driving cars because of this call to emotion which ignores the reality of living life.
How about you put the calls to emotion on hold for a moment and think like a rational adult. Rational people know that living life is full of risk. Because of this fact, society accepts that a certain amount of death is expected and acceptable in order for a people to live a free and fulfilling life.
What I'm seeing is "The Science" says the risks to sending children and teachers back to school are well within accepted societal norms and were it not for the most despicable kind of politics (i.e. fear mongering) this would not even be a point of contention right now.
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Asst Coach [819]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: I'm quite sure every parent that has lost a child to
Jul 16, 2020, 8:09 AM
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While I agree that school should probably resume, I think it’s worth pointing out that the auto safety industry is a billion dollar industry, we invest a lot of money In trying to reduce those numbers, from infrastructure to highway patrol. It’s not like we accept those fatalities, although, to your point, most of us accept that we aren’t in a position to reduce those deaths with any behavior other than driving better and we let the experts work on making better car seats and better airbags.
I think the important thing to consider in regards to schools being open or closed, isn’t the fatality rate amongst teachers and students but rather how much did shutting down schools affect the trajectory of covid this spring and will reopening them cause a surge of patients that will overload the hospitals? To this end I think it needs to be treated locally, a state like SC should probably wait a little longer to open than some of the New England states with much lower trajectories.
All that being said, if we follow certain safety precautions opening schools should be manageable, and I think kids need the socialization as much as the parents need a break from homeschooling.
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Orange Immortal [65578]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49140
Joined: 2000
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Do we stop allowing children to ride in cars? Do we stop
Jul 15, 2020, 7:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are we following the science or the politics of school ] |
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kids from riding bikes? How about the flu and other contagious diseases? How do we explain those deaths to parents? We don't have to, because those totally preventable deaths are somehow "accaeptable". They are the result of taking known, accepted risks. Why is COVID19 different when it may be much less dangerous than any of those?
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TigerNet Elite [77549]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 43854
Joined: 2004
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Re: Do we stop allowing children to ride in cars? Do we stop
Jul 15, 2020, 7:55 PM
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DYING FROM COVID IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE REASONS!!!
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Oculus Spirit [43144]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 43563
Joined: 1998
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Covid is scary
Jul 16, 2020, 7:07 AM
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like assault weapons and gun violence
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Orange Elite [5168]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Clemson Icon [27824]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 48313
Joined: 2010
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Get ready for a SPIKE... I'm not talking about some dog.***
Jul 15, 2020, 6:17 PM
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Ring of Honor [22177]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 17428
Joined: 1998
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Schools should be reopened. The messaging should be ...
Jul 15, 2020, 6:43 PM
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slightly more compassionate than “F%#@ all of you _ students, teachers whoever. We’re opening the schools to bring back the economy. Suck it up you wussies!” Whenever constructing a difficult meassage in an emotionally charged environment, research shows that it should start and end with empathy. Much of the PR around this topic has been horrendous at every political level. The “in your face”, bombastic and antagonistic tone just doesn’t sell when dealing with people’s children.
FWIW college football should be played _ perhaps with limited fans.
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Paw Master [17172]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 18016
Joined: 2015
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Re: Are we following the science or the politics of school
Jul 15, 2020, 6:44 PM
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Don’t have 2020 data but 2018, 3,683 opioid overdose deaths in ages 0-24.
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Asst Coach [817]
TigerPulse: 58%
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I had to stop using "comprise"
Jul 15, 2020, 7:00 PM
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I picked up that habit of misusing it like you just did at some point after high school, don't know where. Somebody corrected me about 10 years ago and I haven't used it in anything archival since. Just substitute "consists of" for the improper "is comprised of"
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Starter [275]
TigerPulse: 52%
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Re: Are we following the science or the politics of school
Jul 15, 2020, 7:49 PM
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So if children and teachers dont go home and older teachers retire your analysis makes sense!
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Orange Phenom [14754]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You obviously did not watch the video as your concern
Jul 15, 2020, 8:26 PM
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is addressed therein...
Once again - what does "The Science" tell us about kids spreading COVID-19 to adults? According to Dr. Atlas the scientific data he has studied throughout the western world all indicate the occurrence of COVID-19 transmission from children to adults so rare as to be insignificant. If that is in fact what the data says, then there is no rational reason not to fully open our schools.
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Paw Warrior [4755]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Tabby, There are 2 things that come to mind
Jul 15, 2020, 8:17 PM
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1. How much worse will the infection rate and death rate go up when we start cramming hundreds and hundred of students together all day ?
2. How many of them will get the virus and then take it home to their parents and grandparents ??
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Orange Phenom [14754]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Once again - watch the video.
Jul 15, 2020, 8:39 PM
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Dr. Atlas has studied COVID-19 all across the western world, including Switzerland, Canada, the Netherlands, France, Iceland, the UK, Australia and Ireland, and found that children seldom if ever transmit the disease to adults, even to their parents. If this is the case and we know that the child mortality rate from COVID-19 is actually lower than the flu (so far the flu is much more dangerous to children than COVID-19) then why are we not opening the schools?
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TigerNet Champion [121126]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
Posts: 77642
Joined: 2003
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Re: Are we following the science or the politics of school
Jul 15, 2020, 8:25 PM
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people seem to leave out the part where parents will just have to socially distance from their kids until 3 weeks after school ends.
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Orange Immortal [65578]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2000
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Nope - that was covered.***
Jul 15, 2020, 8:48 PM
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Rival Killer [2964]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Schools shut down in March
Jul 16, 2020, 12:16 AM
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Most schools shut down in March when the overall numbers were a small percentage of what they are now. Therefore, there is really no data on the various age groups when put back into large groups, especially with the significantly higher number of overall cases.
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Clemson Conqueror [11120]
TigerPulse: 73%
46
Posts: 10989
Joined: 2017
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Liberals just like to talk about “following the science”
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Jul 16, 2020, 6:50 AM
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because they think it makes them sound smarter than you. I literally LOL every time I hear them say it.
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Orange Blooded [2588]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Liberals just like to talk about “following the science”
Jul 16, 2020, 10:21 PM
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Yeah, but most are smarter.....than you anyway.
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Clemson Conqueror [11120]
TigerPulse: 73%
46
Posts: 10989
Joined: 2017
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I know you are, but what am I?***
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Jul 16, 2020, 10:32 PM
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Commissioner [908]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Moot point if everyone just wore masks for a few weeks.
Jul 16, 2020, 7:26 AM
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Humans are an odd race.
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Clemson Conqueror [11120]
TigerPulse: 73%
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Joined: 2017
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Do we know this for sure???
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Jul 16, 2020, 7:36 AM
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I wear a mask in public buildings, so I’m not totally against it. I’m just saying, we’re still not sure they really work.
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Commissioner [1204]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Moot point if everyone just wore masks for a few weeks.
Jul 16, 2020, 10:21 PM
[ in reply to Moot point if everyone just wore masks for a few weeks. ] |
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I've been wearing a mask when I go out and I just tested positive Monday. I'm about over it now and i can tell you that I'm done with a mask.
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Ring of Honor [23577]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Well, first of all, I would be more likely to listen to this
Jul 16, 2020, 10:20 AM
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guy if he knew what he was talking about.
1) His specialty is in the field of neuroradiology. Doctors specialize for a reason. When I was dealing with a pinched nerve in my neck about 15 years ago and had to have the ACDF fusion surgery for my C4/C5 cervical vertebrae... yes, I would have welcomed his opinion. He is undoubtedly an expert in terms of evaluating MRI’s in cases like mine. But you wouldn’t go to him for heart disease requiring a quadruple bypass. He knows nothing about that. Absolutely nothing.
You don’t bring in a Software Engineer to evaluate the infrastructure of a bridge, you need a Civil Engineer. Yeah, they’re all engineers, but they specialize for a reason. Doctors are the same way. In the last few months I've had to see 3 different medical specialists. I had a bout of diverticulitis and saw a gastroenterologist. A few weeks later I fell down the stairs and broke my wrist and fractured my tibia, with possible knee damage. I was referred to the Hand Center in Greenville for my wrist, and a different orthopedic doctor for my knee. None of them would even think of treating my other injuries.
Point being, this guy is not an epidemiologist and has zero training in that area. He is just throwing out a semi-informed opinion, at best. Yeah, he’s a doctor, but that’s about it. He has spent a lifetime looking at X-rays and MRI's. He is not an expert in highly infectious diseases... but there are people who have spent their lifetimes studying it.
2) He throws out his opinions and talks in broad generalities without specifics. “We know this by now”... “All the studies have shown”... etc, etc. Who knows it? Which studies? Give me chapter and verse, dude, or you’re just another talking head. Even in junior high school in the early 70’s we had to meticulously cite references for a simple term paper. Jesus.
3) He is a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institute, which is generally recognized as a conservative-leaning think tank. And he’s on Fox News, and I assume he’s not appearing for free. If he’s being paid a fee to have this little chat, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that he knows what he needs to say if he wants a return appearance. Call me cynical, but that’s how I see it.
Anyway, I will continue to listen to the people who know what they’re talking about. Carry on.
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Ring of Honor [23577]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Yeah, I kinda thought this red hot topic would suddenly
Jul 16, 2020, 10:10 PM
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fall off the radar and become a total nothingburger. That's what happens every time you nuke a thread and there are no logical, sensible comebacks. But it doesn't matter. The usual suspects will come crawling right back out tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after, ad nauseam. 24 x 7 x 365. The sky is green and the grass is blue. Whatever. And no discussion with anyone with at least a triple digit IQ and fully developed brain stem is worthy of consideration. Oh hayell no. But that's how we roll these days on Tigernet....
Yeeee Haaaw. Hey y'all, hold my beer and watch this...
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Asst Coach [819]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Yeah, I kinda thought this red hot topic would suddenly
Jul 16, 2020, 10:57 PM
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Cognitive dissonance is alive and well
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